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For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Instanced PVP (Arena and/or Battlegrounds)
Gandohar
Member, Alpha Two
Greetings!
Like many others, I have been following AOC for years and am beyond excited for everything it has to over. However, I wanted to bring up a concerning issue I have.
For myself, I love both PVP and PVE content but I play PVP far more than anything else in an MMORPG. I read that AOC is primarily going to be open world content so there are going to be incentives for engaging with other players during events and what not. However, does this mean there won't be any small scale PVP that you can simply queue into or visit an area that is dedicated to small scale PVP? My favorite content happens to be 1v1 & 2v2 combat and it would be a bummer to have to only rely on stumbling across another person in the open world. I am perfectly fine with queuing into an arena/battleground or visiting a colosseum type area in which this type of thing can occur.
I would love to see a dev forum/discussion on this to see what direction PVP will be going in for AOC!
Like many others, I have been following AOC for years and am beyond excited for everything it has to over. However, I wanted to bring up a concerning issue I have.
For myself, I love both PVP and PVE content but I play PVP far more than anything else in an MMORPG. I read that AOC is primarily going to be open world content so there are going to be incentives for engaging with other players during events and what not. However, does this mean there won't be any small scale PVP that you can simply queue into or visit an area that is dedicated to small scale PVP? My favorite content happens to be 1v1 & 2v2 combat and it would be a bummer to have to only rely on stumbling across another person in the open world. I am perfectly fine with queuing into an arena/battleground or visiting a colosseum type area in which this type of thing can occur.
I would love to see a dev forum/discussion on this to see what direction PVP will be going in for AOC!
3
Comments
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Arenas
game will definitely need some kind of instanced pvp even in a survival game like ark on a well populated server it can be hard to come by people unless you're using esp hacks which is usually the case when someone finds you in open world situations.
Yeah, but Ark is an action adventure survival game, not an MMORPG.
The difference is not something to be understated - the games probably shouldn't be compared in this regard.
Many PvP oriented MMORPG's with a focus on open world have existed and been financial successes - there is no reason at all to think that in itself will cause Ashes any issues.
I'm not **** I know what kind of game Ark is I was just using it as an example.
Any MMO with open world PvP how often did you have fun engaging fights Naomi?
yeah I'm not stupid I know what kind of game Ark is I was using at an example not a comparison. Please do tell me about all the fun open world PvP you have had in those successful MMORPGs
Archeage was the most successful PvP MMORPG in NA/EU for a few years, it had some great PvP.
My assumption (feel free to correct me if I am wrong) with what you want arenas/instanced PvP for is so that players can find a fight. The thing is, a game like Ashes (based on Archeage experience) will have plenty of that.
In Archeage, there were set piece style content every few hours. There was never more than a 2 hour period without some form of content that attracted people to it, that was open for PvP.
Basically, rather than setting up an arena, attracting people wanting a fight to it and then locking it off, XL instead set up an open world fight, and attracted people to it every few hours.
The game had arenas, without a doubt - but they were empty because there was no need for them due to the games design.
These are the aspects of Archeage that Steven saw and knew should make for a great game.
that's because Archage does the same thing FFXIV does, your kits are stripped down to streamline and balance the PvP experience. when you play arena in either game you aren't playing your character rather a streamlined kit of your class which really takes the fun out of it imo.
the whole process of setting up your own skirmishes is easier said than done, you need to organize and wait on people and let's say you worked all day and only have a few hours to yourself. you're already loosing an hour just setting things up if you're lucky.
I would run around on WoW back in the day looking for fights, usually people just ran away and cried. same for New World. I have one experience playing that game that I will remember. me and the guy fought each other while trying to farm a resource node, We both would time our attacks and CC skills and keep count of how many times we hit the node to try and claim the resources. it was a lot of fun but in the thousands of hours playing the game it's probably the only fun open world PvP I had.
My thing is in any game with arenas, is it's either stripped down like AA or FFXIV or they overly incentivize it like New World or WoW. make the rewards small and only the winners get rewarded and you won't have everyone spending all day doing them and thus you won't be taking away from the core gameplay ashes is built around
I agree that it's kind of shit.
Kinda wish I did, I hear the grind is pretty tough too. I really liked FFXI for the more unforgiving PvE experience. XP loss on death with down leveling , needed a good party comp just to grind xp, long travel times to get to where you needed to be. over world bosses, etc.
tried some private server stuff with L2 but they always work the XP rates on private servers so it was really boring and no one around to level with.
I‘ve been playing WoW on pvp servers from release until end of WotLK and there was plenty of open world pvp everywhere, in all scales and sizes. Played rogue and warrior mainly, and had thousands of hours pvp-ing from 1:1 to large scale fights.
So, cant share or understand your experience at all.
I‘ve played Horde. If that makes any difference, but I dont think so.
And sure, wow vanilla was also very grindy in several aspects, all the QoL stuff was implemented later on.
I more focused on FFXI then WoW back in the day, FFXI had mechanics I never dealt with where WoW was a combination of everything that was out at the time. I might have missed out cause most of my experience is early/mid game with WoW then came back on private servers that were dedicated to arena only to play more MMO PvP
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/58885/the-arena-thread/p1
Then E-Sports got brought up
And people got confused between the 2.
Was a back and fourth nightmare 😂
What I tried to do from the start of that Arena Thread was compromise with the Ashes direction of the game as-well as keeping an end game high skill competitive level with fewer numbers than the original 8v8 design to offer something different yet more noticeable on individual talents & skills (ie 3v3 & 5v5) - already confirmed
The compromise I tried to get with was having reasons, upgrades to still go out into the OW and experience the other modes such as dungeons & raids to stay relevant, experience the entirety of the game but also was a choice of weather you wanted these slight upgrades to give you an advantage to climb the leaderboard of the Arena, so that way was a win/win, and everyone gets to pick how they want to play their story, makes it easier with Seasons too
yeah I did the same thing with an idea I got from playing Infantry back in the day.
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/59688/idea-copied-from-an-old-game-one-of-my-all-time-favorites-that-could-fit-ashes-perfectly#latest
for some reason if anyone mentions arena play the guys who never leave the forums come out to with their one sided opinions to try and tear it down. I'm getting really tired of people using "the spirit of the game" to argue for the sake of arguing or they will just derail your entire thread.
Nonsense....
1. Small scale team PvP fights (4vs4 to 8vs8)
- Guildwars I - The Hall of Heroes Arena fights (instanced)
- Warhammer - scenario fights (instanced)
- RIFT - scenario (instanced; 8+)
2. Open World PvP Fights from small to larger groups (up to 50vs50)
- Lineage 2 - open world pvp (not instanced)
- Warhammer - open world pvp (zone instanced)
- Guild vs Guild or Realm vs Realm fights
I would definitely appreciate some of those game modes to see in AoC! I think the difference from those older MMORPGs to the newer once is that the older games were more focused on team/group fights with mixed class types (tank/dd/heal)... nowadays this group mechanic seems to be not relevant anymore
AoC Chars: Hammil (Cleric) | Ivenin (Ranger)
Server: Aeterna (EU)
totally not agree on that :-) ! not seen in any of these old games for e.g. Warhammer....
please, dont misunderstand me. I do not prefer instanced pvp over open world. This is not the case and not my purpose of my message. The open world with uninstanced fights is really enjoyable, but along to this, there should be small scale pvp within arenas or scenarios, all instanced, with quick join and having fun
AoC Chars: Hammil (Cleric) | Ivenin (Ranger)
Server: Aeterna (EU)
Why do we have an Arena in AoC?
A lot of people enjoy competitive play, just because it might not be your cup of tea doesn’t mean others wouldn’t enjoy doing something smaller scale but more fast paced and giving the PvPers other type of end game content other than massive scale options only. Having forms of competitive ranked play (such as 3v3 or 5v5) that’s a high skill cap is essential and shows a better indication of individual skill especially when in bigger masses, a lot of people just hide to do the bare minimum but receive the same rewards. It also encourages players to push their classes to the limit and improve their own skills in the game while also giving them motivation to improve and this can be done through smaller scale instanced PvP with no outside influence aswell as a leaderboard to climb and show off their hard work and efforts.
Won't this ruin the Open World PvP?
People need to understand when there is an Arena involved, you do not just spend 100% of your time queing arena. You only que arena when your teams on (can’t say much about this 1v1 mode). You spend your time participating in other aspects of the game wheather it be PvE, Sieges, Dungeons, Raids until your main Arena team has logged on to then que.
You always have to go out and grind content to keep yourself going forward - getting better gear, augs, chants, or changing weapons to level as well as increasing your skill (continuously experiencing everything the game has to offer) so that you also remain viable to climb the ladder, then when your team is on and ready you que. Meta changes aswell can have players going out in the open world to continuiously upgrade or change their gear/weapons. Yes, queing Arena will affect the open world PvP but not as much as you think.
Don't people just spam Arena ques 24/7?
Surely if you played oldschool WoW you know you had to continually keep upgrading gear in order to climb the ladder throughout the season. You had to get gold to get enchants, farm gems, reputation gains (from questing & dungeons) to unlock recipes to craft better items, or farm borrowed powers from challenges to make a legendary, get renown to make the BIS weapon (used for both PvE & PvP), there was farming matts to be able to create a unique piece for your class. There was plenty to do to be able to stay viable to compete or you would start to fall down the leaderboard.
An example might be your team not being online, losing streaks, inflation, patch changes throughout the season, gear changes and updates, class balance changes ect or you aren’t playing the best so you get some RnR and reconvene next time (when your team is back online) so between all that, plenty to do other then que spam. Arena ques is just one small part of the larger picture.
Won't the elite PvPers destroy us with there gear and or weapons?
At the moment, currently confirmed is cosmetic rewards only. Though i do not agree with this style of reward for the achievments earned in the Arena, it is a compromise Iam happy to take as this will mean players will still need to do all other forms of gearing methods offered in the game but still can show off their skills with the rewards received whether it be similar to WoW with titles, armoured mounts, weapon glows etc
Conclusion:
Every game needs some sort of end game competitive scenario with a high skill gap to encourage players to sharpen there skills, otherwise it gets boring. Especially for those who have been a playing with a team and using team work & coordination, in scenarios where communication, fast paced quick decisions was required with a comeptitive edge to get a win or climb the ladder.
You should always play the MMO the way YOU want to play it, and so far AoC has supplied that opportunity with its variety of confirmed end game content to make both sides of this coin happy.
Reference: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/58885/the-arena-thread/p1
- providing a temporary buff to caravans (5% speed buff for 15mins)
- any other temporary buffs to a node (tax decrease 5%)
- provide mats to a node
- exp to a node
there are so many possibilities, which can have an impact on the whole system and not to someone else (to show that XY has the biggest balls in a leaderboard, because we has 100 fights won...)!
!! But please no rewards which will give an advantage to players in pvp !!
AoC Chars: Hammil (Cleric) | Ivenin (Ranger)
Server: Aeterna (EU)
No they don’t, there will be different meta for everything. Meta for raids, PvE, dungeon progression, meta for wars (mass AoE abilities), meta for smaller scale fights. If you don’t understand this you can message me and il happily explain it all in detail
You can’t possibly blame a meta shift on the Arena (which by the way is completely optional and only has cosmetic rewards given at the moment confirmed). Every game has a meta… Have you currently played any multiplayer game that’s out?
You may think a leaderboard is the worst, but others who have the competitive edge will love it and enjoy playing something that’s smaller scale team based game mode such as the Arena with no outside influence, I have met some great people along way in the passed 2 decades competing in ranked modes for different games and don’t see why Ashes can’t be like this too
Everything we know about the Arena is here:
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Arenas
If this is something you don’t find yourself interested in, then simply don’t compete? Im yet to understand the thought process of people thinking having a high skill cap Arena end game mode will drastically affect them? When I’ve seen it do the complete opposite
Like i have wrote previously in my thread, there is such thing as changes or patch notes that can only affect certain aspects.
For example (x ability does -25% reduced damage in Arena, Node Sieges, Naval Combat) this does not effect the open world
*note* open world pvp dissapates with BGs every-single-time.
There are instanced dungeons confirmed?
Have you even bothered reading the Ashes wiki?
I assume you're talking to me.
Arenas very much force class balance changes. There were many such decisions (like armor pen in 3.1) made during the course of wow. If class a is dominant in large group pvp meh in pve and insanely weak in arenas what is the correct choice in this scenario. Do you tell players (who spent hundreds of hours leveling) that like arena tough shit your class will be bad? Do you buff the class so it's good in arenas and broken in large group? While it always isn't an a or b choice, balanced/competitive arena play shapes the way classes function and how they play.
- Scale it so it applies only when you enter Arena
- Class changes can be mitigated to just when you enter the Arena and different scenarios that way it is your choice anyway if you want to participate
- Gear cap the Arena (example gearscore of 2,000 maximum) so it’s more even playing field
- Max level only to enter Arena
- Certain gear score before you can enter the Arena (minimum requirement)
- Maximum of 1 cleric/ 1 tank per team (option for triple dps allowed)
I don’t know how else to explain you can easily do class changes (that will only apply to the Arena or other modes) but have the open world not affected
Answer me how Open World PvP is ever fair when its always dominated with numbers (example large guild groups)
I thought Ashes of Creation had a risk vs reward factor, so enter the Arena at your own risk
EDIT: You missed this part
Like i have wrote previously in my thread, there is such thing as changes or patch notes that can only affect certain aspects.
For example (x ability does -25% reduced damage in Arena, Node Sieges, Naval Combat) this does not effect the open world
From my memory it's already been said that abilities and gear won't scale or change based on game mode. They obviously could do it based on the flagging system but thats a cheesy system in a game designed around the open world imo.
Open world, by design, isn't fair or competitive in the same way an arena is. The appeal of it is the anthesis of arena gameplay.
- Fast paced game mode using team work to counter your enemies using skill and team coordination
- Smaller scale controlled PvP with no outside influence
- More notice of individual skill rather than sitting in big groups playing loot simulator
- Ranked competitive system
- Unique rewards to flex skill and efforts achieved
- Leaderboard (no need to say more)
- E-Sports opportunity (not needed until much later)
- Pushing your class to the limits in a controlled environment
- End game competitive mode instead of running around looking for a random to fight out in the open world
- No Corruption risk
- Unique Titles & Cosmetics
- Playing as a team with your mates
- Motivation to master your class and work better as a team
- Inspiration when watching others compete and seeing how they play there class in an Arena
- Clutch plays (if you have had heart throbbing 1v3 games or where it was down to you to win it for your team to get the rating you will understand)
Just off the top of my head