Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Comments
I never said arenas weren't appealing. No one has said arenas cannot be appealing. Nothing you typed above addresses what I said previously about arenas and balance changes. You gloss over the entire concept that abilities will not shift based on game mode.
Its obvious you want arenas, but if you don't want to address what other people say to you you may as well go type to chat gpt.
Its obvious you don’t want Arenas, yet when in AoC its design is optional compared to say WoW which is its core PvP game mode
So I'm yet to understand if you don’t want to participate? Then don’t? Or try it and see if it is something you enjoy?
Wouldn't this only apply to the very small number of people that only run arena PvP in specific, pre-made groups?
Most players don't do this, they queue up as solo or duo players to be added to a group, or have a group made up around them.
The other point I would want to make is that this argument applies equally to instanced PvE as much as instanced PvP. Any argument for why a game with both open world PvP and PvE should have instanced PvP or PvE has to automatically apply to the other.
I mean it’s not even close with the popularity, WoW End Game PvP / PvE is what made it so successful (Arenas / Battlegrounds / Raiding / Dungeons). Don’t get me wrong, there was World PvP as someone who played WoW since Vanilla, but ofcourse just like every World PvP experience's (WoW/New World etc etc) it is usually is short lived, and until one side over-masses in numbers, which then ends in people running away.
End Game Content should be more focused on then catering to a few (maybe could happen mini skirmishes)
At the end of the day, AOC is a business, and money/profit margins would come in to play, WoW’s success still holding the #1 spot for MMORPGs, just comes to show what the people want I guess.
Not saying World PvP is bad, I myself do enjoy the odd fights here and there, but just like anything in life, without an end goal or something to look forward too (Arena rewards etc ) it dies really quickly. Stated before by @Apok, I don’t have the playing time I used to when I was younger, so mindlessly running around trying to find a fight or have to sit there organising one would be quite daunting, especially if ya come up empty.
Again theyve already said they won't have abilities dual function. I've played many arenas, reached glad in multiple seasons. The balance changes because arenas made wow worse.
As someone who’s multi-glad and competed in the Arena Tournament, I can assure you, balance changes do not always make things “worse”. What is your point here btw? Every game right now in existence that’s online based has a meta/patch notes/buffs and debuffs (COD/League/Dota/Apex/Etc etc etc). It’s to keep things exciting for players and give other classes / specs or even weapons that aren’t being used a fair “go” in PvP and PvE. So whether ya want it or not, it’s going to happen 🤷🏻♂️
Arenas create very specific scenarios within fixed parameters. Cooldown timers, cc diminishing returns, burst profiles, etc all have to have tight windows for it to be competitive. At the same time those things exist within an open world paradigm where all of those must be able to scale to large numbers. Certain classes (not archetypes) will excel at each of these different things. This inherently creates a class design where specific classes are extremely strong or weak at different game types. Again I will ask what do you tell the person who spends 45 days of time leveling class x only to find out they are outclassed in y gametype.
Ask ret paladins from vanilla (not classic) how much fun they had being laughed at in pve. Games have metas and those metas shift, but the games you listed do not have competitive modes based around multiple coexisting game types. Using dota as example, you are asking icefrog to balance dota around turbo, ranked, 10 person, ability draft, and random. How do you think this would turn out?
Wow was popular because it was the only game in town. Lotro vanguard aoc war rift couldn't hold a candle to the performance, ease of access, and plain old luck of wow. End game content actually killed the long-term sustainability of wow.
Im saying since the Arena is not out, isn’t this something the dev team can look at (hence these forums) as to not affect your “absolutely rng open world battles” that I’m yet to witness in the entirety of this Alpha 2
My biggest point here is let’s see how it pans out? Instead of trying to take it away before it is even given a chance, cause the only way the Arena would absolutely affect the OW is if Ashes is a dead game
"...Again I will ask what do you tell the person who spends 45 days of time leveling class x only to find out they are outclassed in y gametype..."
yes its very hard to find the right balance for classes between pve and pvp, but if the dev team keep focus on the teamplay, every class will find its role in a team setup pvp... openworld or arena...
AoC Chars: Hammil (Cleric) | Ivenin (Ranger)
Server: Aeterna (EU)
Who are you quoting as saying, "absolutely rng open world battles". I can't seem to find the quote anywhere. You haven't seen any type of open world content as the the world isn't anywhere close to complete. Mob density, resource locations, level progression, etc aren't even close to to done. You aren't seeing anything because you are only seeing a half-baked vertical slice of the intended gameplay loop.
The wait and see argument is terrible for game design as players loath having anything taken away. The same argument could be applied for flying mounts or random dungeon ques or instant travel.
Again you fail to address the actual issue with arenas: class balance. For the third time, abilities will not function differently. What is your solution?
Read this.
Then read it again.
Then read it again, and try and understand it, cause this is basically what Arena is all about.
Your class that you leveled for 45 days, might actually, and hear me out here, quite good with other CERTAIN classes in Team play. Which means your class is still viable for Arena play.
For example, I’ll use WoW, say it’s Affliction Warlock and the only team comp that works for it is Shadow Play 3v3 Comp. It doesn’t mean your class is bad, just means for it to the best for your spec, you need to play with a Shadow Priest and Healer (X).
Your making it sound like certain classes or specs won’t be able to work, but as we’ve seen previously in other MMOs a certain comp can work and that class can still be viable.
Even better now, the introduction of 5v5 Arena is back too which means more classes will viable then just trying to find a 3v3 comp. This opens up so many doors to not being locked out to just one bracket as there is multiple brackets.
Class balancing is around the 8 party system
So be it, since you said you’re also a competitive player you should know that there is a degree of skill that can make your class work
This isn’t WoW, you have different abilities, stamina, dodge roll and skill shots in AoC. Put that in an Arena system which is a small controlled fast paced game mode and you can very well make your class work if you find the right team compositions
Again this is what the forums are about, you bring up concerns here or give ideas, solutions.
My issue ive brought up is not only OW can be daunting to find a fight even if there is heaps happening, it’s always won in big numbers, so just like for eg NW the big guilds running around with big teams will dominate. As for the Arena people can opt in for something more smaller scale using team work to win and add that with a competitive ladder system which i believe is vital for games to have for end game content and also motivate players to excel at their class
Dungeons/raids are subject to outside interference, as is everything. Arenas would be a move to safe n sterile.
Thus my post.
Instancing
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Approximately 20% of content in Ashes of Creation will be instanced.
What we're creating is a PvX game; and what that means is our target audience is the PvX player; and that is our golden cohort. And so to a degree if a player is solely interested in the most elaborate raid boss mechanics within a controlled and curated setting that is instanced gameplay, Ashes might not be the game for them and that's okay. However, with that being said, we do have a division of curated experiences that exist in an 80:20 ratio; and what that means is roughly 20% of the content that players will experience will be instanced, because where we want to have that granular control over the design and mechanics of a particular storyline or encounter we utilize the instance setting to provide that. – Steven Sharif
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Instancing
Have a read champ
What we don't know about this is if they are still planning on instanced content being story based, as opposed to repeatable.
If the instances in ashes are not repeatable (as was one of the original plans), then I am all for an Arena that matches - one and done.
If the instanced content is repeatable, then so too should arenas be.
Castle and node sieges may contain instanced locations where specific groups can participate in certain objective-based waypoints.[8][9][2][12]
Dungeons and raids will maintain an open world feel while also capitalizing on the benefits of instanced mechanics.[16] Instancing is only going to happen in certain dungeons where the desire is to have greater narrative appeal.[2][7] Outside of these and arenas there will not be too much instancing anywhere else.[14]
There will be some open dungeons that have bosses at the end of the dungeons. There will be some open dungeons that just have a multitude of dungeon bosses, not necessarily world raids or something; and there will be lots of different rooms and they'll be progressive in the sense that in the earlier parts of the dungeon they'll be lower level and then at the later parts of the dungeons deeper down they'll be higher level and more difficult; and that creates again I think an ecosystem of where players across a multitude of levels have an opportunity to coexist within certain areas of the world; and that's good from a social dynamic. It's good from a recruitment dynamic. It's good from just a liveliness and relevance of particular areas. So that you don't end up with these locations that once you pass a certain level like it's empty.[17] – Steven Sharif
There's also instanced housing
Instanced apartments
Apartments provide instanced player housing functionality on a rental basis.[60][61]
Village (stage 3) apartment buildings offer 50 rental apartments. Additional apartments can be added at Town (stage 4) if the mayor chooses to construct them and if there is an available plot for the expansion. This includes different types of apartments, such as penthouses.[62][63][60][64][61]
The number and sizes of available apartments increases as a normal part of node advancement.[60][65]
It is estimated that the number of apartments available in a Metropolis (stage 6) node will be in the hundreds, if that node specs into all apartment expansion upgrades. This number is subject to change based on testing.[60]
Prices for apartments will fluctuate depending on the number of units already sold in the node.[61]
Different price points offer different apartment sizes and types, such as penthouses.[63][61]
It was previously stated that apartments would be available at Town (stage 4) or above.[61]
If you are getting 80% of what you want, why can't we have our 20%?
Anyone that things people talking about PvE instances is considering apartments to be a part of what they are talking about clearly has no business even being in the conversation.
You talking about instanced apartments in this conversation as a "see, you have the thing" kind of vibe is about the same as me telling you that you have your arena PvP because you have instanced apartments.
Neither makes any sense.
You copy pasting an entire paragraph that basically just describes what an open world dungeon is also has no real place in this discussion - it is again like me saying you have your arena, it's the open world PvP.
Again, neither make sense.
The portion about instanced aspects to sieges also has no place here. Those instances will essentially play out like an objective based arena (Alterac Valley, for example). They are PvP instances with objectives, not PvE instances.
You pointing to them saying "PvE instances" is like me pointing to the story based PvE instances and telling tou that it is your arena.
Once again, neither make sense - yet all three of the above are me providing you with a parallel to what you are saying (basically just hiughlighting to you that you have no fucking idea what you are talking about - hopefully).
Literally the only part of your post above that pertains at all to this topic at hand is this part Which happens to be the part I was talking about when I said that instanced PvE may prove to not be repetable at all.
If this is the case, then I would want to see non-repeatable PvP arenas as well.
I don't really care what issues that cases PvE arenas, to be honest. If the game is saying "both PvP and PvE", then any instancing of one should be mirrored in the other.
So again, if the only instanced PvE in Ashes (not siege objectives, not apartments, not open world dungeons) is story based and not able to be repeated, then it should stand to both reason and logic that any instanced PvP should also be story based and not be able to be repeated.
If you want repeated instanced PvP, you should also be asking for repeated instanced PvE.
You say I have no idea what im talking about
Yet you are saying PvE being non repeatable, I haven’t read that any where nor heard Steven even mention a once off instanced dungeon. The only way that’s doable or even a thing and Im just gona take a guess here, is a raid that will be locked once a week (similar to WoW) then to me that’s classified as repeatable or a storyline dungeon that’s part of the main quest line. Both aren’t even mentioned in the entire wiki in regards to instancing
There is already so much confirmed for the Arena, there is a PvP ladder, seasonal rewards, titles, cosmetics, team brackets sizes…
There’s also instanced raids, dungeons and PvE scenarios
What you’re arguing about is literally 1% chance of instanced PvE being a non repeatable thing, how does that at all equate to Stevens 80% / 20% if it’s one off?
So, I don’t get where you are even arguing or got that idea from.
Even if that’s the case, so what, there will be different instanced challenges of the game for PvE and PvP, so yet to see what the problem is?
Im sure once more WoW players flock over, watch how much they will push for Mythic+ dungeon style challenges
If you can do that same content when you are not at that part of the story, it is unlocked content, not story based content.
The actual term "story based" means one and done. It is specific wording that has a specific meaning.
Having to specifically also state that it is limited accessibility after already stating that it is story based is redundant.
Yes, I know the definition of a one off scenario in game content that would happen during progression. If you read the wiki there is not much stated about that and the way Steven has described instancing content is not at all hinting that it will be one off. Hence the 80/20 quote
That doesn’t make sense for end game content considering how much has been confirmed it would be a very odd move
Also again, story based content is one off. That is literally what story based content means in an MMORPG setting.
You have just content, that is always available, you have unlockable content where you perform a task (usually a quest), and that unlocks content for you to run as many times as you like, and you have story based content that is content that is only available to you when on that part of the story.
As I said above, Steven doesn't need to specify that story based content is one off, because it is implicit in the name.
On the other hand, if Steven is using the term story based content but actually means either unlockable content or just general content, then that just further highlights his lack of knowledge in regards to basically all matters related to PvE. I'm not completely disregarding this as being a possibility, but if it is true, it shows how near zero Stevens knowledge is on this matter.
Mate, don't need you to spell out what story based content is
Legit, I have never heard him say that, so unless you're just making it up or miss understood him, there might be some events that will be a one off with different type of rewards, but no where does it say in the instancing section of the Ashes wiki that all or majorioty of the instanced modes will be a one off thing.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Instancing
Again, im going off the wiki so unless the Ashes wiki is completly wrong than that's Arena, Instanced dungeons and raids being a one off thing does not sounds like good end game content at all? I don't get what your point is except for hyper focusing on one thing that apparently YOU heard?
Again, that doesn't sound at all feasable, considering how much has been confirmed with Arena, and also discussed in dev videos about the Arena system.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Arenas
If you read the Arena section that sounds like to me seasonal basd rewards, so 6 month seasons with top % of players receiving unique rewards that they can show off at the end of season, not at all a once off thing but more seasonal.
If you don't understand that you can DM me and I'l happily explain it to ya
You're clearly lost in this discussion. I'll try and fix it for you.
I didn't say the arena was being built as one off content, I said that if instanced PvE content is, then so too should instanced PvP content.
If this means a change to the form thst instanced PvP content takes, so be it. The logical best op5ion here is to not have one off content at all - which is my point.
As to PvE being one off - that is what story based content is by definition. If Steven is saying instanced PvP in Ashes will be story based, he is saying that it will be one off, because those two terms mean the same thing. He doesn't need to use them both, and story based content sounds better.
It is possible that Steven is using the term "story based" wrong, and he actually means content that is unlocked during the Amory and remains unlocked. However, if this is true, it just highlights Steven's complete lack of understanding of PvE MMO gameplay.
If he doesn't even understand the terms, how can he understand the whole?
So, if we are going to assume Steven knows what he is doing and what he is saying, Ashes will have one off instanced content - because that is what he said when talking about story based content.
If Ashes has one off instanced PvE content, it is only fair, in my opinion, that it also only has one off instanced PvP content.
I'll even tl;dr it a bit more for you.
One of three things is to be true;
1, Steven is an idiot.
2, Ashes will vastly favor instanced PvP over instanced PvE.
3, Ashes will have one off arenas.
Option 2, in my opinion, goes against the notion of PvP and PvE being equal in Ashes, and so should be immediately ruled out, leaving options 1 and 3.
Not lost at all, the way you have hyper focused on one thing makes this sound like trash end game content.
My understanding of it all from the instancing part of the wiki is 80% of it will be open world content, 20% is dungeons/raids that have no affect from the outside world and Arena. I think this will be for the PvErs who want to do PvE without the risk of being attacked by other players
Lets humour you for a second and say that he did say that, could you have miss understood that it means you will need to complete the main storyline to unlock these instanced content for later on at max level? Because that makes more sense to me than it being a one off thing, imagine all the effort of programming, visuals, content being added just to be played off once?
Guess we will find out when ever this game releases
Your TLDR is silly and doesn’t give many good options
1. You miss understood him and he actually means to unlock it for future end game content
2. Yes because saying 80% open world and 20% means the 20% is favoured? Lol what no its called Competitive gameplay, believe it or not people enjoy the competitive scene and at the moment whats confirmed in the wiki is you gain zero benefits for your character other than aesthetic cosmetics (yet to see how thats favoured since it’s literally just bragging rights)
3. Whats confirmed in the wiki is no where near read as once off but more 6 month season based Arena
Hope this helps
I posted my opinion, you derailed by making the thread about my opinion.
And yeah, there are no good options in that tl;dr, but those three options are the only options open to us. I didn't put us in this situation, I am just shining a light on the fact that this is the situation we are in.
Also, you still aren't understanding things - it is clear by your comments that you don't. You comment about the 80/20 split means you still don't get it. You can't make that comment and understand the point at hand at the same time.
Showed you the references of where there is so much information about it all
No, so let’s just keep it at that
Merry Christmas
You showed me you have a lack of understanding of the topic.
You are just assuming your understanding of things is correct, pointing at words that don't support what you are saying, and yelling "SEE, THERE!". Then you are stating that you have shown references and such.
Yes, I am aware that the current plan for arenas is seasons. I never said it wasn't. I said that in my opinion, if PvE content is story based (read, one off), then arenas should also be story based (read, one off). That means a change from what we have so far been told - meaning the information we have on arenas means nothing to my opinion here because my opinion is that - should this circumstance come to pass - they should be changed.
The reason your comment on the 80/20 split clearly means you don't understand the discussion you are in is because the comment you were referring to was about instanced PvP vs instanced PvE, and your reply was in relation to open world vs instanced.
Very clear lack of understanding of the topic at hand.