How do you feel about CC and CC breaks in MMORPGs?
They create much more interesting and dynamic combat. Yes please.
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
Everyone should have access to some kind of CC break or immunity. But to what degree, how many, and what sacrifices have to made for them should depend on the archetype. Melee archetypes should have more available than ranged ones, because they'll be in the thick of combat more often. Rangers should have the least, because they aren't priority targets, they will spend most of their time at long-range, and they already have plenty of mobility to avoid getting hit.
I typed out a bunch of examples, but lost my draft. Just give each class at least one CC break that is thematic and gameplay-appropriate...
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
In PvP, it's usually mandatory to pick some CC, and usually necessary to pick at least one CC break (just in-case a Rogue or Fighter gets on top of you). But there's a lot of nuance when it comes to how much CC each teammate should bring to the table. Maybe you skip them if your teammates already have it covered and you trust them.
And besides, some people just enjoy the Controller playstyle, and other people just like to nuke, so I'm sure there's room for lots of CC choices in the skill trees, at least in PvP.
In PvE, CC is either busted OP or useless; there's very little middle ground. So the devs get to make that choice for everyone and it's just up to the players to realize what the choice was. In most cases it's purely a checkbox when putting together a party: either "make sure someone in the party has a couple AoE CC skills for trash packs" or "make sure the party has a very specific CC needed for the specific encounter". There will be very clear optimal choices in that regard, but I guess it's still fun to figure it out.
Meanwhile CC breaks are a safety net. You can take them as insurance in case you fail to dodge something, or forgo them if you have confidence in your ability to avoid CC entirely. So that can be a compelling choice for individuals, assuming encounter designs include properly tuned CC threats.
How do you feel about CC and CC breaks in MMORPGs?
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?[
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
How do you feel about CC and CC breaks in MMORPGs?
I think they are integral aspects to both PvE and PvP gameplay, and when implemented properly, can create a masterclass of a player experience.
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
Simply put, universal CC breaks across every archetype would feel bland and work against the joy CC and CC breaks can bring to a game. As other have said, having each archetype wield a specific CC Break to a specific type of CC would be more ideal, as it allows each archetype to maintain diversity while building upon it's own particular flavor.
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
I think CC abilities should be an either / or choice, while CC breaks should just be attained at a certain level of character progression. Skill trees are great, but including certain skills that realistically will be chosen by 90% of the players as "a choice" isn't really a choice anymore. I think a hybrid skill system, where certain abilities are attained at a set level, and others are granted through skill choices, is ideal for what I envision Ashes of Creation is trying to create. I think CC abilities should exist as a choice along the skill tree, while CC breaks are a skill automatically attained once a certain level is reached.
Final Thoughts
Crowd Control is a term originating in the MMORPG space, and as such is integral to any good MMO. How it is implemented will impact whether both PvE and PvP combat feels good, unique and balanced or bad, homogenized and imbalanced. I'm sure all the opinions offered on this dev discussion have much to say about the issue, as I myself have shared a good deal, but in the end this is such an integral system that whichever direction is chosen will have to be tested, tested again, and tested some more. To come out of the gate running, I recommend having unique CCs attached to each archetype (ex: Mage-Sleep, Rogue-Trip, Tank-Pull), and to not force players to have to choose "CC Breaks" as they progress. Thank you as always for asking for our opinion, I look forward to whichever form you at Intrepid choose to implement, as it will be great to test it out.
How do you feel about CC and CC breaks in MMORPGs?
Both great mechanics and lead to a higher skill ceiling in the game-each have their places as well as countering each other.
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
I'm not entirely against this, though ideally, it would thematically make sense with the archetypes/classes and is balanced; not too many but some could be fine. I'm more of a fan of possible a potion that does this so they player consumes a valuable, well timed CC break and it has a decent cooldown as well as specific gear with CC immunity for when players are transporting or wanting to be less vulnerable to CC during fights.
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
I'd be interested to see the trade off; could be difficult to balance but worth exploring. I wonder if it could be versus other things as well (max health/health regen/max mana/mana regen/crit strike/stamina/etc.)?
How do you feel about CC and CC breaks in MMORPGs?
They have their uses and can be very valuable tools when done right, but also very frustrating when there's too much of one or the other. In PvP, CC removes the player's control of their character which means they cannot control whether they win or lose, but it is very skillful to be able to interrupt your opponents burst combo or heal abilities in order to gain the upper hand. So that's why all Archetypes should have some form of CC, but not all forms. Some should have roots, some blinds, and others stuns. That would make it a consideration for a group's composition when doing dungeons or raids. Each CC should also have their own innate strengths and weaknesses. Usually stuns are the strongest CC since they prevent you from making any action, and I think it's a mistake that they heavily outclass other CC's like blinds or snares. There also should be a healthy mix of enemies that are straight up immune to certain CC's, like golems that can't be tripped or sirens that can't be silenced. Then you can make other CC's stronger against those enemies, like blinds interrupting a golem's lazer attack or charming a siren to attack other sirens with its songs. This could also apply to Archetype abilities or mechanics as well, but it might be trickier. If Fighter has a stance in which they become immune to stuns but be more susceptible to blinds or roots, it could be trivial for an enemy composition to spam blind and root the fighter until the fighter switches stances. It is not fun if there's ever a matchup where, let's say Fighter vs Rouge, Rogue wins 70% of the time because they can spam blinds or snares and the Fighter can't land a hit. On that note CCs should have diminishing returns if you get CC'd a bunch in a short amount of time. For example, everytime you get stunned, tripped, or knocked back you get a stack of Defiant and the next CC has reduced duration. At 3 stacks, you become immune to CC for 5s. The stacks should also decay gradually and not all at once. I find it very frustrating to be hit with an 10s stun immediately after my CC immunity ends. After your 5s of CC immunity ends, your Defiant stacks should drop to 2, meaning the next time you get CC'd, it only lasts 1/3 of the original duration.
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
Every Archetype should have a CC break. There's are 2 ways I think you can do it. One is having a universal mechanic that everyone has, like dodges. Just like everyone can dodge attacks, everyone can break CCs cast on themselves. It can be tied to stamina so you can't CC break forever, but you can build for more CC breaks; or it can be tied to a simple cooldown or a cooldown that increases each time you break a cc in a short amount of time. The other way is to spread it across Archetype abilities and mechanics. Maybe Fighter can CC break when swapping stances, or Rogues CC break when entering stealth, or Mages CC break when casting Lightning Ball. It doesn't matter where you put them, they just have to have "enough" and preferably enhances the playstyle of each Archetype.
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
I don't think that will work well. In PvE, damage is king. Unless CC or CC breaks increase your damage, the meta builds will only take the least amount of CC required to clear any given dunegon. It's more flexible in PvP, since the goal is to live longer than your opponent, but it could make some builds inflexible if you're forced to choose between not getting stunlocked and killing your opponent. Skill Points can make your CC and CC breaks better, but it generally shouldn't be at the expense of doing damage.
being able to break cc is interesting in pvp cause you have to balance costs and cooldowns and all that stuff, but thematically I think it's better to see it coming and counter/dodge it since y'know being incapacitated doesn't leave a lot of room for doing whatever spell or skill to break it after it's applied. so i'd say either, split up cc into different groups of incapacitation so there are some you can break like bindings or concussion and some you have to pre-empt like charm or sleep, or alternatively just make the cc counters all pre-emptive cause that makes more sense for most cc flavor texts.
-Me
-How do you feel about CC and CC breaks in MMORPGs?
In my opinion CC is a very important mechanic to either control a fight or loose it. I like the thinking of CC-Chaining a target, but that can also be very frustrating for the opponend, if he has no chance to get free ot the CC.
I think CC should be part of the game, like sleeps, slows, stuns, fears, poisons, airhooked, crippelt, freezed and so on, but there should also be a possibility to in skill mechanicly get free of the a CC-Chain. So players can have a Skill-based match.
-How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
Main CC Break should be done by the Support roles, like Bard, Cleric, i think they should be the only ones that could do an AOE CC Break for the team, or either cleanse teammates from Debuffs entirely.
Every class should have a possibility to break throw CC-Chains and some sort of CC.
Maybe a Fighter can cleanse himself of a cripple or disarm with an ability, or an Archer can get rid of slows and so on, so that every Class has his own uniqe technique to escape specific CC. In a Group u need to rely on Supports, helping other Archetypes that are not able to CC-Break for example a sleep, to do that.
So that grouping properly and position properly is a thing that matters.
-What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
That depends on which class u play and what is the playstyle. For example as a Mage u could go full Damage with less CC or CC-Break, cause in a Group ure always have Supports to help u out and other teammates that specialize maybe on CC to help the Team to win a fight. If someone is playing maybe only PVE, than CC or CC-Break maybe doesnt matter that much, except for Raids or specific events, so they would likely choose damage over CC..
Also in a 1v1 PvP Battle i think ppl would choose a way to bring al least 1-2 Skills for CC and/or CC-Break.
How do you feel about CC and CC breaks in MMORPGs?
CC effects, as well as the ability to break out of them, are an essential component of gameplay that all archetypes should have access to, but should not always necessarily be part of the optimal build for all game content. The types and efficacy of CC should also vary significantly by archetype (and class specialization). This can be a very important element of the "class fantasy;" after all, who wants to play a mage/elementalist who can't freeze their opponents in place, or a warlock/necromancer who can't fear? The definitions of CCs and debuffs are also a spectrum and this should be given consideration. For example, a major accuracy debuff might not traditionally be considered a CC effect, but for a physical damage dealer it is just as impactful as a silence is when placed on a spellcaster.
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
I strongly feel that not only should every archetype should have a CC break, but the baseline CC break (which would break all forms of CC) should be functionally identical across all archetypes. In this sense, I think it should simply be thought of as more of a character ability. This sort of ability would likely need a 2-5 minute cooldown and, in my opinion, should drain most or all of the stamina bar upon use in order to still make CC application by the attacker feel impactful. Additional limited CC breaks could be added on a by-archetype basis - for example it would make sense for a Bard to have an additional CC break that only removes slow/immobilize effects, for a Cleric to have one that only removes fears, etc. These additional archetype-based CC breaks could be used as a balancing element for each archetype, but all characters should still have the baseline "PvP trinket" universal CC break.
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
Taking additional CC options should present a meaningful choice to players, likely at the cost of damage or other additional utility. Perhaps a Cleric has to choose whether one of their abilities removes CC from a target or heals for +50% - this would be a meaningful spec choice. Similarly, a mage might select to make theirs slows twice as effective versus increasing their spell critical chance. Duration/severity of a specific ability might also be meaningful choices that a spec could dictate. Would you rather entangling vines inflict a 5-second total immobilize with a 30 second cooldown, or a 15-second slow with a 20-second cooldown? Both of these are viable for different playstyles and players should be given the choice in some cases. In terms of CC breaks, these should generally be somewhat limited in scope and probably be tied in as an augment to movement abilities. For example, blink now removes immobilize but the cooldown is twice as long.
Note: CC duration on different target types
Generally speaking, I think it is important to consider blanket modifications for CC durations on different types of targets. For example, a 30 second immobilize is fine versus a normal "trash" mob, but it would be more appropriate for such an ability to only work for 10 seconds on a player. It might be worth considering a spectrum of duration-reduction which is broadly applicable depending on targets. What do I mean by this? Consider each "star rating" of enemy difficulty removing 20% of a CC effect's duration. Thus a specific CC might persist on a 0-star enemy for 30s, a 1-star for 24s, a 2-star for 18s, etc with 5-star having total immunity. Players might fit on this spectrum as a 3-star enemy, with default -60% CC duration. There are obviously many ways to implement it, but it could be another way to differentiate the difficulty of enemy types (as well as reflect their overall resilience or force of will).
Note: CC diminishing returns
Overall, I think it is important to implement diminishing returns when it comes to CC in PvP (which we have already seen in demos). However, I think that diminishing returns require a nuanced approach and probably should not apply a blanket immunity to all CC. Obviously, it shouldn't be possible to chain-stun someone indefinitely in PvP. However, I do think it should be possible to stun an enemy, then slow them once they break out. Furthermore, some debuffs and light CC probably shouldn't be affected by diminishing returns at all. Light (say <25%) slow effects like a chill probably should be possible to keep up indefinitely, as casters will have their mobility limited while applying them, and melee will likely have other forms of counter-play like gap-closers. Carefully consider categories for these diminishing returns, and avoid making them too broad.
Every class should have some CC and some CC break. Only some class should be able to give CC break to others and it should be something they have to put skill points on.
I think there are some classes where we could have a bit more CC, like Fighter and Summoner. What I played, this two classes had always good amount of CC. Fighter due to meele fight and Summoner was always for me something like "Control Mage" and thats what I love. Slow, Root, Fear, Polymorf
How do you feel about CC and CC breaks in MMORPGs?
CC can be a double-edged sword—it adds complexity, creating opportunities for skilled players to outmaneuver opponents, but excessive or poorly balanced CC can lead to frustrating experiences. Being constantly locked down by CC without a viable counter reduces player agency. The availability of CC breaks provides much-needed counterplay, ensuring that fights are not solely determined by who lands CC first.
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
Giving all archetypes a form of CC break is a positive step toward balance. It ensures that no class is entirely helpless against opponents with strong CC capabilities, maintaining class diversity while providing a way to counter hard CC-heavy enemies. It’s important, however, that these CC breaks come with trade-offs, such as long cooldowns or resource costs, to avoid making CC irrelevant.
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
The choice between CC/CC breaks and damage is an interesting one because it forces players to consider playstyle and role preference. It adds another layer of customization, allowing players to decide whether they want to lean into a more utility-focused build or a damage-centric one. Ideally, these choices should be meaningful, where investing in CC/CC breaks provides tangible benefits but does not drastically overshadow other combat options like raw damage output.
TL:DR There should be a play and counterplay, but counterplay shouldn't be able that easy to achieve cuz then there will be no point for everyone to use a play.
How do you feel about CC and CC breaks in MMORPGs?
Both are necessary you need to integreate them to each class in a different way tho, because all classes are different and have different needs.
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
Some classes should have more and one CC and more than one Break it depends how squishy the class is and how every class chain its spells together. I dont feel like classes should have an item (Trinket) tho I find that lazy and bad design.
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
Thats a good Idea but should also needs to be considered if that class really need more than one cc or break some classes are just good with one of those. In addition I feel some evation spells and utility spells should do the job. Like some Anti debuff spells % or some invulnerability spells for a few secons so you have to time it.
I feel like counterplay is King but also like you alredy said some classes are superior to other and thats fantastic I feel. People can close the gap with skill and the second archetype. (This also is really good for Arena 2v2, 3v3, 4v4)
How do you feel about CC and CC breaks in MMORPGs?
PvP:
An absolute must - though I'm heavily in favour of skewing access to CC breaks over hard CC. There's not a lot of skill in hard CCing people to kill them if they have limited resources to counter-trade. 4-6 seconds to blast someone who can't do anything is brainlet easymode, and while hilarious when you pre-empt it, a majority of players won't. When the combat scale gets larger (8v8+), there are too many sources to pre-empt them all, leading to you eating it and doing nothing.
It's worth noting that there are two broad types of CC—hard and soft. To put us on the same page, Hard CC removes all player agency (stun, fear, mez, sleep, etc.), while soft doesn't (snares, silence, disarm, blind, etc.). We play a game to play, and every moment where you don't get to play can be a negative play experience and create a churn event, especially when stakes rise—not something we want.
I also think it's vital that any CC break is split between hard CC (high access) and soft CC (lower or third-party access). You don't need a snare purge to play because all your buttons still function, and depending on your archetype or toolkit, it only changes your reliance. You can also skew the cost of soft CC removal, meaning you might eat the hard one if you burn too many resources removing the soft CC.
The games I've seen CC and CC breaks done well are often the more PvP-centric ones; CC is highly frequent, but CC breaks are highly available, usually at a resource cost. I think resource trades are better than cooldown trades, as resource trades tend to scale better through all scales into larger scenarios. Cooldowns are more traded in arena or duel situations, but once you have multiple vectors, you're out-rotated.
ESO is an easy example where everyone has a hard CC break for stuns and silences, trading stamina for the break. It makes the application of CC not a zero-sum trade, as it can be a way to force someone to mismanage their resources, creating other openings.
Importantly, ESO CC break gives you a 5-second hard-CC-only immunity, and also has dodge mechanic for getting out of roots and aoe hot zones. It's important to note that ESO has no cooldowns - everything is resource-balanced, which means in big fights, if it's extremely hot you can burn a lot of resources to survive, instead of a single trade cooldown and being caught in a follow up.
I think highly visible immunity windows for hard CC are essential and a better experience than DR - it's more visible, it's easier to track, and it's less susceptible to inerrant spam of a low-duration CC, skewing the effectiveness of the big CC; a negative play experience for whoever uses their big CC and receives 1/4 duration.
I also think this helps make higher tiers of gameplay more accessible, but keeps the skill ceiling in a realm of general populance. If you compare something like WoW arenas, people have to rely on addons to track the different CC Class DRs, and that plays a huge role in how high you're rated - tracking specific CC vulnerabilities over playing your class and
DR has to lead to immunity because you can still be CCd at high DR - a 0.3s root is still a root and still introduces chop to gameplay. Add multiple sources and it's not much different to being in a 5s root.
Long hard CCs are (IMO) bad because they can rob so much agency from a player. Once combat scale creeps up, the TTK can massively drop. If the defence is primarily active (dodge, block, walls etc.), a lucky stun will see people drop in a few seconds, regardless of the opposing team's spike coordination. Most spike windows are <4s, and if you have no defensive ability or agency, it's not really a great way for a fight to go. If you have too much reliance on active defence, and then CC's being super strong, it pushes player builds to be passive meatballs, and that's its own issue when you have 30+ on the field.
On the other hand, soft CCs are also an absolute must; playing melee without a snare can be an exercise in pain. The skill ceiling to kite someone isn't particularly high, especially when you are both at default move speed caps (you both W-key at the same speed).
Soft CC can be as impactful as a hard CC to combat, but since they don't remove player's ability to play - players can try change their situation through movement, positioning, using other skills, etc. It can force people to reach for other parts of their toolkit instead of taking their hands off the keyboard. This brings in another layer of gameplay where we have counters of counters, over 1:1 trades. It's the classic 1v1 to 1v2 mindset; in a 1v1 you're mostly looking for trades, 1v2 you start looking for leverage. Double hard CCs in a trade-based combat scale super poorly, one person burns your trade, and the second gets an uncounterable benefit.
There are also really cool and underexplored things in crowd control. An example that caught our entire group unaware was in Crowfall (a DOA Kickstarter). When you got blinded, your screen went black. Your UI remained, but you couldn't see anything. It was very cool, very disorienting, and probably too strong, but it was very immersive and really threw things for a loop.
I think Ashes could explore other non-traditional CC, like taunt forcing target switch or target lock, blinds making things blurry, disorients being disorienting, etc.
PvE:
CC becomes very finicky; chain CCing bosses or packs of mobs can trivialise encounters, requiring boss immunities. Once you start including immunities you introduce asymmetric gameplay - some mobs you can stun, some you can't, you won't know until you try or it shifts things around.
It also leads to skew in group comps; bring XYZ classes because they have more CC and make certain encounters easier.
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
Do it. The amount of forum crying you open yourselves up to by not giving everyone some form of CC break will be immense, and it's likely that at some point, you'd have to cave to give all archetypes a CC break, so you may as well dodge that bullet. If you don't, you'll probably see a massive archetype skew.
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
CC is almost an always take - the flexibility they bring is too powerful. Why take an extra damage ability when you can have X seconds of free damage, or improve your applicability because of a better snare?
Taking a CC break is dependent on a meta or FOTM archetype thing and if it's CC category specific. If it's universal, it's a mandatory must have, no exceptions for PvP, unless the trade-off is extreme, and then it becomes a case of "why is it this way".
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AiyaraMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
1- CC is one of the main ways for players to display skill expression, and CC breaks is the way to balance that on the receiving end, again to display skill from both players fighting.
A game without CC is just a stat and gear check game, where the most geared player pressing his buttons in a correct sequence wins. CC and breaks adds a layer of skill, for example interrupting an important cast etc..
2- Yes In my opinion all Archetypes should have some form of CC break, mayne supports have more tools, or more than one or lower cooldown on it, but all archetypes need to have one. Nothing's worse than depending on someone else to break your CC etc.. Maybe have some form of CC that only support classes can remove (like anti-heal, weaken, and other debuffs..) but basic CC break from stun, fear etc.. all archetypes should have one
3- Mmmh this one is flavor of the game question to be honest, but in my opinion, it should be free to unlock the CC break skill, but maybe spend points to further spec into it and improve it as well as spend points into speccing into CC versus damage
How do you feel about CC and CC breaks in MMORPGs?
-CC are unfun makes u unable to any kind of outplay potential
-The one who CC first win
-literally makes u unable to play the game and just die
-MASS CC will get abused in a game like ashes, just like it is in any other massive pvp MMO
-No one likes to get CCds
-CC is pretty strong and it should be very limited
-CC SHOULD NOT Last more than a few seconds 1 - 2 s
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
Maybe CCs should be parry able or blockable? CCs are very strong if u can just CC someone with tab targetting and no skill at all, adding some kind of parry to the CC that gives u a big return against the guy that tried to CC u (I know for sure Tab targeting Andys will hate this idea)
by the end of the day... High Risk High Reward
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
tbh didnt understand the question cuz im not english fluid but ill say that If CC exist there should be always more than a few ways to counter it
Interesting idea coming from our guild chat is that instead of all archetypes having a CC Break, some could have CC Reflects or CC Absorbs, etc. Maybe a pre-emptive skill that you'd activate in advance and work into your rotation?
Support and Healing classes should naturally have the most access to multiple CC break options for themselves and their group, this is were a lot of MMOs mess up
but all classes should have at least one CC break, very important
For me:
* Every class should have some CC. Some may have just slows without any hard CC. other can have stuns/sleeps and some can have pushback/root effects and ect.
* I dont think CC Break should be connected with dmg when choosing. But more like: you choose between CC Break or mobility. And in that regard. Classes that have high mobility (Fighter/Ranger) should not have any option to choose CC Break. Meanwhile Classes with less mobility like the Mage should have CC break.
* In the same regard, Choosing secondary class may provide either Mobility or CC break.
* The only classes that can have CC Break that affects allies should be Cleric and Bard. BUT they should not be able to CC Break themselves + the cc Break should have high CD
* The tank class should be with a lot CC + CC Break, but no mobility spells. Maybe he can have a protection ability that will transfer the next CC from ally to himself.
* Some of the classes like fighter which may not have cc Break. Can have Defensive spells that can be used while being CC-ed, which would help him survive
In short: Make every class unique. The thing WOW did with recent patches, where every class has 4 spell rotation + CC + 1 CC break + 2 mobility spells + 1 self heal + 1 dmg burst with high cd + 1 defensive spell with high cd + 1 spell interupt + 1 heal reduce, IS the most f***ing trash thing they ever did. It made the classes bland with no uniqueness to them at all. So dont do this, and make every class unique, even if it means some classes will do better than other in particular situations.
Another idea can be: only the cleric for example having CC break for allies, While the Bard has something like the "Leap of Faith" ability That pulls ally from distance to your location. This can save the life of a CC-ed target.
OR Bard can have CC Immunity spell. With the difference that Using the CC immunity spell does not remove already existing CC on the target, but provide immunity for CC for the next couple of seconds. (similar to the shield vs heal mechanic)
Also i think something like the Malzahar ultimate from league of legends for a class can be cool too. Stronger form of CC that cant be cleansed/removed/breaked. but in the same time the caster is stunned for the same time as the target. (for example it can be a summoner spell cast by the Player, but you may have mastery option so the spell is cast by a pet instead if you invest in it)
Or what about Rogue having Mordekaiser ultimate from LOL. Where he sends his target to different dimension where you can 1v1 for some seconds.
What do you think about for example shield weapon, having option from the general skill tree that reduces the dmg mitigation the active blocking provides by 50% but also reduce any incoming CC by 70% if hit while using active block?
I like to think of things like in M:tG - each type of magic has things it can handle and things it can't.
Blue can counter spells but has trouble permanently removing threats (but can bounce them temporarily to counter later)
Black is really good at destroying creatures, historically bad at dealing with artifacts and enchantments.
Red is good at destroying artifacts at lands. Doesn't destroy creatures directly but will deal damage to them to remove them.
Green mostly removes flying creatures but otherwise is generally bad at removing creatures. Very good at removing enchantments.
White is just imbalanced and good at removing everything.
We see a similar thing in RPGs like Pathfinder with different types of saving throws.
Agile (Dex) characters are good at avoiding area effects and things that impact mobility
Sturdy (Con) characters are good at breaking free of disabling hazards or things that paralyze and also debilitating poisons and physical stuns
Wise (Wis) characters are good at resisting enchantments and magical stuns (like 'daze' type effects).
Every archetype should have some ability to mitigate a segment of CCs, but not all of them. Fighters should absolutely have ways to break out of physical CC effects, but be more susceptible to sleep, 'hold person' or other enchantments.
Rogues should be able to dodge out of most mobility impacting skills but also be weaker on the stuns or enchantments.
Mages should be able to mentally shake themselves free of things like sleep or 'hold person' but be absolutely floored by physical effects like stun or trip.
Clerics should have ways to remove most CC effects. I'd prefer if they had different skills they had to spec into and know which one to use at the right time (rather than a general 'clense' that removes anything). Maybe go the Guild Wars 1 route where general cleanses removes only 1 thing, but a specific skill that removes conditions removes all conditions (conditions being physical, as opposed to hexes which are magical in that game.)
Secondary of course can modify these skills to help offset a weakness - a fighter/mage or fighter/cleric might be able to spec to deal better against enchantments and hexes compared to other fighters.
This creates a gameplay where understanding your weaknesses and strengths is paramount, and helps cement the 'rock paper scissors' aspect you've indicted you are going for.
How do you feel about CC and CC breaks in MMORPGs?
I think CC is a necessity for PvE content, and CC breaks can be a necessity for PvX content. It makes gameplay more dynamic as opposed to attack/heal only.
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
I think all Archetypes having a CC break of some kind would be useful, and this could be dependent on the class spec, i.e. going for more damage in a raid as opposed to more CC/heal focused.
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points
I do really like this, as playing a CC role and minimizing damage output, thus almost solely focusing on CC and perhaps debuffs/buffs can create a more rewarding play experience if a user would like to deviate from playing a damage dealer/healer/tank. One could be a master of CC in their archetype if they practice enough, which is something I can appreciate.
CC feels like a necessity to add utility to classes. I feel like it should be a choice that you should have to pick in the skill tree. It should be a meaningful choice though, to not pick CC should be on the same par skill wise of a choice. I don't feel like CC should be mandatory for all builds.
As far as CC breaks I think that everyone should be able to break CC but it should be based on stats or resistance to what ever the CC would be classified as. I don't think it makes CC as fun of a choice in PVP situations if everyone just has a CC break to remove all CC's that can be applied.
How do you feel about CC and CC breaks in MMORPGs?
Speaking from a PVE only perspective, I enjoy having CC in game with diminishing returns. Once again from a PVE only perspective I am not a fan of having CC breaks from all archetypes unless it was coming from perhaps the Bard or Cleric or being damaged by an NPC.
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
From a PVE perspective only please see above.
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
It depends on how Intrepid Studios implements CC. If it's absolutely critical to gameplay to have CC breaks or CC to control the battlefield then yes i would choose it over damage but typically i would balance this out once again all depending on game design/implementation.
How do you feel about CC and CC breaks in MMORPGs?
I feel CC's should be part of strategies for high end dungeons and raids as to not overwhelm the group when you can lock down a mob or adds during a fight, such as a healer or archer while you're dealing with the melee adds. it can also be good in the open world, as Steven so eloquently showed during the commission live stream, where if you accidentally pull too much, you can lock one down with a CC while you take care of the rest.
CC's also have a place in PVP, however what other games have done a good job of is modifying the CC when it comes to NPC's vs. player characters, such as having a 10 second daze/sleep on an NPC, but reducing that to 2 seconds on a player.
Also I think CC immunity after being CC'd should be strongly considered as being locked down with a stun + sleep + daze + trip so you are completely helpless and end up dying before you can even move is bad game design and just not fun.
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
CC breaks should be fairly limited and probably mainly for tanks or possibly healers as either a default skill or low on the trait priority list.
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
There definitely should be a trade-off when having CC or CC breaks, which is why I believe they should be mainly for tanks and healers as their DPS would already be low, so instead of boosting up their DPS via traits to make up for their low default damage, they spec more into CC/utility skills. DPS players who spec more for PVP and want a more balanced build should have a CC break at a higher tier since they aren't going full glass cannon build like they may have in a PVE setting.
How do you feel about CC and CC breaks in MMORPGs?
I think CC adds strategy and complexity to the game. CC breaks/cleanses are another resource which in the same regard adds depth through decision making and risk into a game.
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
I like both when they're designed with an obvious balance/intentional approach and is an interesting design topic to explore.
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
Throughput vs. cc and cc breaks to me are an interesting choice to put before someone. My only issue is when the choice between CC and throughput renders a character drastically less effective. I would prefer to be able to reasonably pve and pvp with a build and not feel like I'm massively depowering myself by accounting/talenting for both.
Some thoughts on CC, CC break, and movement ability design
Like any other ability CC and CC breaks should follow any other ability design. Cooldowns, resource cost, etc. should scale with a number of factors (some examples below.) If you build out a sort of system to help diversify abilities and their counters the game will feel more exciting and rewarding without making some feel helpless and also make the choices feel more compelling because they know the options are balanced.
CC
* Severity of CC (slow, root, stun, etc.)
* Cast time (instant, short v. long cast time, number of charges stored, buff or reaction condition, etc.)
* Effectiveness (number of targets, area of effect, additional effects like knockback)
* Drawbacks (example CC makes targets invulnerable, provides a buff to target for a short duration, or applies a debuff/requires channeling from caster, does it have other requirements to be used? etc.)
CC Breaks
* Cast time again (as above)
* Effectiveness (as above plus does it work on specific types of CC, does it reduce duration v. cleanse it entirely, how many does it cleanse?)
* Drawbacks (same as above but reversed)
The key here is the apply the same to movement abilities as these directly relate to these in terms of balance in the cat and mouse game of cc, cc breaks, and movement abilities.
Is CCing someone fun? Is being CC'd fun? Is breaking out out of CC fun? Is having someone break out of your CC fun?
Observation:Weapon swings and spells can miss or can crit even....funny how CC and CC breaks never miss or crit in most games?
How do you feel about CC and CC breaks in MMORPGs?
As the Aggressor having CC abilities feels fun so I can get myself in an advantageous situation. Having a way to chain CC feels like I am skilled but also when it's so simple that anyone can do it, the adrenaline is fun but it's obviously broken so i know it's a cheap thrill. Chain CC should take intelligence and skill to pull off, not just a sequence of key binds. CC and or Chain CC should be a pass or fail game in and of itself. Fail the game and you should be punished for it. Take the Risk=>Reward/Punishment
As the Defender of a CC Ability being able to break out obviously helps me feel like I have a way back in the game. But being chain CC'd feel awful and makes me not want to engage with that class/spec in any capacity. I obviously need to pick on the small fries who cannot put me at such a disadvantage. Melee class being kited around unable to get in range. or Caster being stun locked in place unable to move. We have all seen the person before just go afk mid combat due to the futility of it., That is obviously not fun for them.
Not having any CC breaks makes me not want to play the game. And having LONG CD's on CC break is almost just as bad. If the person can stun me every 15/30 seconds and I cannot break it in the same windows(example CC break only once every 2 mins) then what am I able to do to put them at a disadvantage in a similar way? if the answer is nothing...I am not signing up. If I cannot CC or break the CC then my damage modifiers need to make up for the down time. or my ability to gap close needs to make up for the down time. Or they need to have a system that punishes them for CCing at the wrong time or interval.
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
I am fine with everyone being able to have a form of counter play. CC break does not always = Counterplay but it is one type. Being able to make up for lost time or lost health through the CC is an example of good counter play in addition to a CC break. Penalty to the CC is something i hardly ever see. For example. they can CC whoever they want so why not make it so if you CC the wrong class spec or if you CC the wrong person at the wrong time they are punished for it. This is shown in wow with interrupts and clairvoyance (you interrupted at the wrong time, therefore now i can clear cast without interruption). Why not if you stun at the wrong time, i am now free from stuns for an amount of time.
Example ( You stun a Warlock but because the warlock has a specific talent or buff active the stun punishes the person using the stun) or a class/spec can place punishment buff on players to help them counter the cc.
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
I think specializing for situations is not always fun. Specializing for fantasy is fun. Do i want to be a fire mage or a frost mage? When i have to spec out of what i fantasize in order to play better or have an advantage/optimize then the fun is lost.
Damage is king. But if the damage is SOOO high that not having a CC means life or death then i have to opt out of damage for the CC break. But that sort of high damage environment in and of itself is not fun. Stun me for 4 seconds and be able to kill me in that 4 second window.....why am i bothering to learn the game at all in that case. Especially if a cannot consistently break the cc that will inevitably happen because my break is on CD
Where WoW went wrong on CC breaks is that they limited them to one use within 5 minutes. What if I am in a 5v5 battle and am constantly being CCed because I am the only healer? I like the fact that they are attempting to bring unison to the group of fighters. However, if you aren't as organized as the other group then you lose.
I think there needs to be the ability for an individual's gameplay to stand out. If someone is a good player they should have the ability to stand out and turn the tides of the fight. So CC chained and being put out of the fight indefinitely should never be a thing.
Perhaps if there is a CC Break more often it allows for a more versatile fight. I think that should be play tested and if there isn't a long drawn out fight that lasts 30 minutes then that might be the way. either that or there probably needs to be a limit of 1 or 2 CCs max every x amount of time, in a PvP scenario. Some testing needs to be done by some pro players perhaps in the WoW scene. It's one of the hardest decisions to figure out and understandably why you've waited to address it.
How do you feel about CC and CC breaks in MMORPGs?
A middle-ground is most desired, naturally. The CCs shouldn't be too long/chainable so as to disable a player for ~ +25sec. On the other hand, too much micro CC is perhaps even more annoying, making it hard to get 1 cast off. At least with longer CC it is clear where you will have your window to cast. But as I said, middle-ground is the way to go.
Also I'm not sure how Intrepid plans to handle differences in the CC against player & non-player targets ( for example, CC lasting longer against npc ). The one thing I would caution against, in this domain in general, is having too much tuning specific to each area of the game. This is time-consuming for devs and confusing for players when abilities have separate, hidden modifiers for PvP vs PvE. The closer you can align everything the simpler it will be for all. Of course Raid Bosses are exception.
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
I think it's a welcome addition to each kit, so that an equippable trinket to break CC is not necessary. Players will not always be a in group setting and that CC break could be vital in a sticky situation.
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
I think that is should be fairly easy to pick up your main CC talent nodes, with following talents enhancing the CC if desired...the same principle as other nodes.
Overall I would like a well balanced talent tree such that one doesn't feel like they need a drastically different spec for PvP vs PvE ( for example ), with PvP being more CC focused usually. However, constantly re-speccing might be the intended gameplay so I'm not too sure there.
Where WoW went wrong on CC breaks is that they limited them to one use within 5 minutes. What if I am in a 5v5 battle and am constantly being CCed because I am the only healer? I like the fact that they are attempting to bring unison to the group of fighters. However, if you aren't as organized as the other group then you lose.
I think there needs to be the ability for an individual's gameplay to stand out. If someone is a good player they should have the ability to stand out and turn the tides of the fight. So CC chained and being put out of the fight indefinitely should never be a thing.
Perhaps if there is a CC Break more often it allows for a more versatile fight. I think that should be play tested and if there isn't a long drawn out fight that lasts 30 minutes then that might be the way. either that or there probably needs to be a limit of 1 or 2 CCs max every x amount of time, in a PvP scenario. Some testing needs to be done by some pro players perhaps in the WoW scene. It's one of the hardest decisions to figure out and understandably why you've waited to address it.
Adding to my original thought. I think I’ve come up with an alternative. If crowd control (CC) BREAK is more frequently available and harder to fully lock someone out, that would be ideal. It doesn’t matter if everyone on the team has CC; if I have a way to counter a few of them, then CC becomes less effective unless executed perfectly. Essentially, I want CC to rely on team coordination to be impactful. Maybe make CC duration scale dependent upon your party size.
How do you feel about CC and CC breaks in MMORPGs?
if you have longer fights and respawn times where you can use them they are ok.
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
you can have different CC and different breaks like you tank can stun, ranger can snare, mage sleeps etc. but have it that the different classes can only break it like the mage teleports out of snare, the tank has an invigorate that keeps them awake from the sleep, etc.
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
all cc and cc breaks are usually tied to other abilities. like the rangers jump attack that snares, the tanks shield slam that stuns
How Do I feel about CC and CC breaks in MMOs?
I thinks CCs are a necessary evil when it comes to PVP being able to control your opponent can add depth and allows for other abilities that would be too OP to face without at least the threat of cc.
All Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
CC becomes extremely unfun when it can't be played around, so it being universal that CC can be managed by an opponent is mandatory. There are a couple of ways to do this: either CC can be dodged or avoided as part of the mechanics that could come with them. For example, being able to turn your character away from a blind effect, like flash bangs in FPS games, or being able to roll out of roots, or being a ability in the game that breaks those CC
If you are not going to at least have that type of individual avoidance for all the CC in the game, then I believe all classes should have either avoidance or a break. For example, in SWTOR, a Concealment Operative which is the MMO rogue equivalent had a roll ability, and when they rolled, they got a 100% defense chance. They could roll once every 10 seconds, so they could time that roll to dodge CC. I believe this to be a fun mechanic because you could use roots to prevent the roll, then follow up with hard CC and blow them up.
So for classes with CC avoidance, they could have it more often and have longer or no CC cleanses at all. This way, they have a way to fight the CC but are punished if they are caught unaware or mess up the timing. Conversely, another class could have a traditional CC break, allowing them to be better at dealing with control because it doesn't matter if they are caught; they can choose to break it.
Choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
I generally prefer that a class can't get CC breaks or avoidance in a tree because then it becomes mandatory unless universal ways of avoiding CC already exists. Skills points should always be hard choices between points and if not choosing a point makes your time not fun or to inefficient then you don't have a choice its an illusion of one. Extra CC can be added as skill points but you should be very careful when adding those especially on demand because it can quickly become a toxic meta as even if it isn't to powerful taking a lot of on demand CC for no reason from a build becomes just a negative play experience if someone is going to get CC from a tree it should be avoidable like turning away from Cassiopeia stun in League or a result of a built up status effect like trip existing in Ashes right now.
Extra
To summarize every player should be able to deal with stun with breaks, avoidance, or individual mechanics of a stun and to top it all off should be some time of CC immunity after you take enough of them to prevent chain CCing. CC breaks should over dmg should not be a choice a player has to make in a tree because it's not a choice. Adding CC is a choice and can be allowed but it should be only introduced in the trees carefully and should not be on demand CC should be either but status effects that result in CC or Dodge able CC like turning flashbangs. Honestly that choice be more about choices between dmg but choices between utility.
One of the most exciting aspects of Ashes of Creation for me is the large-scale group content and how it ties directly into the overall progression of the game. Whether it's the node system, castle sieges, or world bosses, these elements require significant coordination and teamwork, making them essential for both individual and group advancement.
In particular, I’m eager to test how these massive group encounters will influence node development and territory control. The balance between PvE and PvP in these environments could define a server's unique growth and culture, and it’ll be fascinating to see how group dynamics and alliances will evolve.
For me, being involved in the large-scale PvP and PvE events, and seeing how they push players to work together for rewards and progression, will be a priority during Alpha Two testing. It’s a core part of what makes Ashes so ambitious and unique. I believe this level of cooperation will greatly enrich the experience and make progression more meaningful.
Comments
They create much more interesting and dynamic combat. Yes please.
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
Everyone should have access to some kind of CC break or immunity. But to what degree, how many, and what sacrifices have to made for them should depend on the archetype. Melee archetypes should have more available than ranged ones, because they'll be in the thick of combat more often. Rangers should have the least, because they aren't priority targets, they will spend most of their time at long-range, and they already have plenty of mobility to avoid getting hit.
I typed out a bunch of examples, but lost my draft. Just give each class at least one CC break that is thematic and gameplay-appropriate...
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
In PvP, it's usually mandatory to pick some CC, and usually necessary to pick at least one CC break (just in-case a Rogue or Fighter gets on top of you). But there's a lot of nuance when it comes to how much CC each teammate should bring to the table. Maybe you skip them if your teammates already have it covered and you trust them.
And besides, some people just enjoy the Controller playstyle, and other people just like to nuke, so I'm sure there's room for lots of CC choices in the skill trees, at least in PvP.
In PvE, CC is either busted OP or useless; there's very little middle ground. So the devs get to make that choice for everyone and it's just up to the players to realize what the choice was. In most cases it's purely a checkbox when putting together a party: either "make sure someone in the party has a couple AoE CC skills for trash packs" or "make sure the party has a very specific CC needed for the specific encounter". There will be very clear optimal choices in that regard, but I guess it's still fun to figure it out.
Meanwhile CC breaks are a safety net. You can take them as insurance in case you fail to dodge something, or forgo them if you have confidence in your ability to avoid CC entirely. So that can be a compelling choice for individuals, assuming encounter designs include properly tuned CC threats.
How do you feel about CC and CC breaks in MMORPGs?
I think they are integral aspects to both PvE and PvP gameplay, and when implemented properly, can create a masterclass of a player experience.
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
Simply put, universal CC breaks across every archetype would feel bland and work against the joy CC and CC breaks can bring to a game. As other have said, having each archetype wield a specific CC Break to a specific type of CC would be more ideal, as it allows each archetype to maintain diversity while building upon it's own particular flavor.
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
I think CC abilities should be an either / or choice, while CC breaks should just be attained at a certain level of character progression. Skill trees are great, but including certain skills that realistically will be chosen by 90% of the players as "a choice" isn't really a choice anymore. I think a hybrid skill system, where certain abilities are attained at a set level, and others are granted through skill choices, is ideal for what I envision Ashes of Creation is trying to create. I think CC abilities should exist as a choice along the skill tree, while CC breaks are a skill automatically attained once a certain level is reached.
Final Thoughts
Crowd Control is a term originating in the MMORPG space, and as such is integral to any good MMO. How it is implemented will impact whether both PvE and PvP combat feels good, unique and balanced or bad, homogenized and imbalanced. I'm sure all the opinions offered on this dev discussion have much to say about the issue, as I myself have shared a good deal, but in the end this is such an integral system that whichever direction is chosen will have to be tested, tested again, and tested some more. To come out of the gate running, I recommend having unique CCs attached to each archetype (ex: Mage-Sleep, Rogue-Trip, Tank-Pull), and to not force players to have to choose "CC Breaks" as they progress. Thank you as always for asking for our opinion, I look forward to whichever form you at Intrepid choose to implement, as it will be great to test it out.
Both great mechanics and lead to a higher skill ceiling in the game-each have their places as well as countering each other.
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
I'm not entirely against this, though ideally, it would thematically make sense with the archetypes/classes and is balanced; not too many but some could be fine. I'm more of a fan of possible a potion that does this so they player consumes a valuable, well timed CC break and it has a decent cooldown as well as specific gear with CC immunity for when players are transporting or wanting to be less vulnerable to CC during fights.
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
I'd be interested to see the trade off; could be difficult to balance but worth exploring. I wonder if it could be versus other things as well (max health/health regen/max mana/mana regen/crit strike/stamina/etc.)?
They have their uses and can be very valuable tools when done right, but also very frustrating when there's too much of one or the other. In PvP, CC removes the player's control of their character which means they cannot control whether they win or lose, but it is very skillful to be able to interrupt your opponents burst combo or heal abilities in order to gain the upper hand. So that's why all Archetypes should have some form of CC, but not all forms. Some should have roots, some blinds, and others stuns. That would make it a consideration for a group's composition when doing dungeons or raids. Each CC should also have their own innate strengths and weaknesses. Usually stuns are the strongest CC since they prevent you from making any action, and I think it's a mistake that they heavily outclass other CC's like blinds or snares. There also should be a healthy mix of enemies that are straight up immune to certain CC's, like golems that can't be tripped or sirens that can't be silenced. Then you can make other CC's stronger against those enemies, like blinds interrupting a golem's lazer attack or charming a siren to attack other sirens with its songs. This could also apply to Archetype abilities or mechanics as well, but it might be trickier. If Fighter has a stance in which they become immune to stuns but be more susceptible to blinds or roots, it could be trivial for an enemy composition to spam blind and root the fighter until the fighter switches stances. It is not fun if there's ever a matchup where, let's say Fighter vs Rouge, Rogue wins 70% of the time because they can spam blinds or snares and the Fighter can't land a hit. On that note CCs should have diminishing returns if you get CC'd a bunch in a short amount of time. For example, everytime you get stunned, tripped, or knocked back you get a stack of Defiant and the next CC has reduced duration. At 3 stacks, you become immune to CC for 5s. The stacks should also decay gradually and not all at once. I find it very frustrating to be hit with an 10s stun immediately after my CC immunity ends. After your 5s of CC immunity ends, your Defiant stacks should drop to 2, meaning the next time you get CC'd, it only lasts 1/3 of the original duration.
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
Every Archetype should have a CC break. There's are 2 ways I think you can do it. One is having a universal mechanic that everyone has, like dodges. Just like everyone can dodge attacks, everyone can break CCs cast on themselves. It can be tied to stamina so you can't CC break forever, but you can build for more CC breaks; or it can be tied to a simple cooldown or a cooldown that increases each time you break a cc in a short amount of time. The other way is to spread it across Archetype abilities and mechanics. Maybe Fighter can CC break when swapping stances, or Rogues CC break when entering stealth, or Mages CC break when casting Lightning Ball. It doesn't matter where you put them, they just have to have "enough" and preferably enhances the playstyle of each Archetype.
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
I don't think that will work well. In PvE, damage is king. Unless CC or CC breaks increase your damage, the meta builds will only take the least amount of CC required to clear any given dunegon. It's more flexible in PvP, since the goal is to live longer than your opponent, but it could make some builds inflexible if you're forced to choose between not getting stunlocked and killing your opponent. Skill Points can make your CC and CC breaks better, but it generally shouldn't be at the expense of doing damage.
-Me
In my opinion CC is a very important mechanic to either control a fight or loose it. I like the thinking of CC-Chaining a target, but that can also be very frustrating for the opponend, if he has no chance to get free ot the CC.
I think CC should be part of the game, like sleeps, slows, stuns, fears, poisons, airhooked, crippelt, freezed and so on, but there should also be a possibility to in skill mechanicly get free of the a CC-Chain. So players can have a Skill-based match.
-How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
Main CC Break should be done by the Support roles, like Bard, Cleric, i think they should be the only ones that could do an AOE CC Break for the team, or either cleanse teammates from Debuffs entirely.
Every class should have a possibility to break throw CC-Chains and some sort of CC.
Maybe a Fighter can cleanse himself of a cripple or disarm with an ability, or an Archer can get rid of slows and so on, so that every Class has his own uniqe technique to escape specific CC. In a Group u need to rely on Supports, helping other Archetypes that are not able to CC-Break for example a sleep, to do that.
So that grouping properly and position properly is a thing that matters.
-What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
That depends on which class u play and what is the playstyle. For example as a Mage u could go full Damage with less CC or CC-Break, cause in a Group ure always have Supports to help u out and other teammates that specialize maybe on CC to help the Team to win a fight. If someone is playing maybe only PVE, than CC or CC-Break maybe doesnt matter that much, except for Raids or specific events, so they would likely choose damage over CC..
Also in a 1v1 PvP Battle i think ppl would choose a way to bring al least 1-2 Skills for CC and/or CC-Break.
CC effects, as well as the ability to break out of them, are an essential component of gameplay that all archetypes should have access to, but should not always necessarily be part of the optimal build for all game content. The types and efficacy of CC should also vary significantly by archetype (and class specialization). This can be a very important element of the "class fantasy;" after all, who wants to play a mage/elementalist who can't freeze their opponents in place, or a warlock/necromancer who can't fear? The definitions of CCs and debuffs are also a spectrum and this should be given consideration. For example, a major accuracy debuff might not traditionally be considered a CC effect, but for a physical damage dealer it is just as impactful as a silence is when placed on a spellcaster.
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
I strongly feel that not only should every archetype should have a CC break, but the baseline CC break (which would break all forms of CC) should be functionally identical across all archetypes. In this sense, I think it should simply be thought of as more of a character ability. This sort of ability would likely need a 2-5 minute cooldown and, in my opinion, should drain most or all of the stamina bar upon use in order to still make CC application by the attacker feel impactful. Additional limited CC breaks could be added on a by-archetype basis - for example it would make sense for a Bard to have an additional CC break that only removes slow/immobilize effects, for a Cleric to have one that only removes fears, etc. These additional archetype-based CC breaks could be used as a balancing element for each archetype, but all characters should still have the baseline "PvP trinket" universal CC break.
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
Taking additional CC options should present a meaningful choice to players, likely at the cost of damage or other additional utility. Perhaps a Cleric has to choose whether one of their abilities removes CC from a target or heals for +50% - this would be a meaningful spec choice. Similarly, a mage might select to make theirs slows twice as effective versus increasing their spell critical chance. Duration/severity of a specific ability might also be meaningful choices that a spec could dictate. Would you rather entangling vines inflict a 5-second total immobilize with a 30 second cooldown, or a 15-second slow with a 20-second cooldown? Both of these are viable for different playstyles and players should be given the choice in some cases. In terms of CC breaks, these should generally be somewhat limited in scope and probably be tied in as an augment to movement abilities. For example, blink now removes immobilize but the cooldown is twice as long.
Note: CC duration on different target types
Generally speaking, I think it is important to consider blanket modifications for CC durations on different types of targets. For example, a 30 second immobilize is fine versus a normal "trash" mob, but it would be more appropriate for such an ability to only work for 10 seconds on a player. It might be worth considering a spectrum of duration-reduction which is broadly applicable depending on targets. What do I mean by this? Consider each "star rating" of enemy difficulty removing 20% of a CC effect's duration. Thus a specific CC might persist on a 0-star enemy for 30s, a 1-star for 24s, a 2-star for 18s, etc with 5-star having total immunity. Players might fit on this spectrum as a 3-star enemy, with default -60% CC duration. There are obviously many ways to implement it, but it could be another way to differentiate the difficulty of enemy types (as well as reflect their overall resilience or force of will).
Note: CC diminishing returns
Overall, I think it is important to implement diminishing returns when it comes to CC in PvP (which we have already seen in demos). However, I think that diminishing returns require a nuanced approach and probably should not apply a blanket immunity to all CC. Obviously, it shouldn't be possible to chain-stun someone indefinitely in PvP. However, I do think it should be possible to stun an enemy, then slow them once they break out. Furthermore, some debuffs and light CC probably shouldn't be affected by diminishing returns at all. Light (say <25%) slow effects like a chill probably should be possible to keep up indefinitely, as casters will have their mobility limited while applying them, and melee will likely have other forms of counter-play like gap-closers. Carefully consider categories for these diminishing returns, and avoid making them too broad.
I think there are some classes where we could have a bit more CC, like Fighter and Summoner. What I played, this two classes had always good amount of CC. Fighter due to meele fight and Summoner was always for me something like "Control Mage" and thats what I love. Slow, Root, Fear, Polymorf
CC can be a double-edged sword—it adds complexity, creating opportunities for skilled players to outmaneuver opponents, but excessive or poorly balanced CC can lead to frustrating experiences. Being constantly locked down by CC without a viable counter reduces player agency. The availability of CC breaks provides much-needed counterplay, ensuring that fights are not solely determined by who lands CC first.
Giving all archetypes a form of CC break is a positive step toward balance. It ensures that no class is entirely helpless against opponents with strong CC capabilities, maintaining class diversity while providing a way to counter hard CC-heavy enemies. It’s important, however, that these CC breaks come with trade-offs, such as long cooldowns or resource costs, to avoid making CC irrelevant.
The choice between CC/CC breaks and damage is an interesting one because it forces players to consider playstyle and role preference. It adds another layer of customization, allowing players to decide whether they want to lean into a more utility-focused build or a damage-centric one. Ideally, these choices should be meaningful, where investing in CC/CC breaks provides tangible benefits but does not drastically overshadow other combat options like raw damage output.
TL:DR There should be a play and counterplay, but counterplay shouldn't be able that easy to achieve cuz then there will be no point for everyone to use a play.
Both are necessary you need to integreate them to each class in a different way tho, because all classes are different and have different needs.
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
Some classes should have more and one CC and more than one Break it depends how squishy the class is and how every class chain its spells together. I dont feel like classes should have an item (Trinket) tho I find that lazy and bad design.
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
Thats a good Idea but should also needs to be considered if that class really need more than one cc or break some classes are just good with one of those. In addition I feel some evation spells and utility spells should do the job. Like some Anti debuff spells % or some invulnerability spells for a few secons so you have to time it.
I feel like counterplay is King but also like you alredy said some classes are superior to other and thats fantastic I feel. People can close the gap with skill and the second archetype. (This also is really good for Arena 2v2, 3v3, 4v4)
PvP:
An absolute must - though I'm heavily in favour of skewing access to CC breaks over hard CC. There's not a lot of skill in hard CCing people to kill them if they have limited resources to counter-trade. 4-6 seconds to blast someone who can't do anything is brainlet easymode, and while hilarious when you pre-empt it, a majority of players won't. When the combat scale gets larger (8v8+), there are too many sources to pre-empt them all, leading to you eating it and doing nothing.
It's worth noting that there are two broad types of CC—hard and soft. To put us on the same page, Hard CC removes all player agency (stun, fear, mez, sleep, etc.), while soft doesn't (snares, silence, disarm, blind, etc.). We play a game to play, and every moment where you don't get to play can be a negative play experience and create a churn event, especially when stakes rise—not something we want.
I also think it's vital that any CC break is split between hard CC (high access) and soft CC (lower or third-party access). You don't need a snare purge to play because all your buttons still function, and depending on your archetype or toolkit, it only changes your reliance. You can also skew the cost of soft CC removal, meaning you might eat the hard one if you burn too many resources removing the soft CC.
The games I've seen CC and CC breaks done well are often the more PvP-centric ones; CC is highly frequent, but CC breaks are highly available, usually at a resource cost. I think resource trades are better than cooldown trades, as resource trades tend to scale better through all scales into larger scenarios. Cooldowns are more traded in arena or duel situations, but once you have multiple vectors, you're out-rotated.
ESO is an easy example where everyone has a hard CC break for stuns and silences, trading stamina for the break. It makes the application of CC not a zero-sum trade, as it can be a way to force someone to mismanage their resources, creating other openings.
Importantly, ESO CC break gives you a 5-second hard-CC-only immunity, and also has dodge mechanic for getting out of roots and aoe hot zones. It's important to note that ESO has no cooldowns - everything is resource-balanced, which means in big fights, if it's extremely hot you can burn a lot of resources to survive, instead of a single trade cooldown and being caught in a follow up.
I think highly visible immunity windows for hard CC are essential and a better experience than DR - it's more visible, it's easier to track, and it's less susceptible to inerrant spam of a low-duration CC, skewing the effectiveness of the big CC; a negative play experience for whoever uses their big CC and receives 1/4 duration.
I also think this helps make higher tiers of gameplay more accessible, but keeps the skill ceiling in a realm of general populance. If you compare something like WoW arenas, people have to rely on addons to track the different CC Class DRs, and that plays a huge role in how high you're rated - tracking specific CC vulnerabilities over playing your class and
DR has to lead to immunity because you can still be CCd at high DR - a 0.3s root is still a root and still introduces chop to gameplay. Add multiple sources and it's not much different to being in a 5s root.
Long hard CCs are (IMO) bad because they can rob so much agency from a player. Once combat scale creeps up, the TTK can massively drop. If the defence is primarily active (dodge, block, walls etc.), a lucky stun will see people drop in a few seconds, regardless of the opposing team's spike coordination. Most spike windows are <4s, and if you have no defensive ability or agency, it's not really a great way for a fight to go. If you have too much reliance on active defence, and then CC's being super strong, it pushes player builds to be passive meatballs, and that's its own issue when you have 30+ on the field.
On the other hand, soft CCs are also an absolute must; playing melee without a snare can be an exercise in pain. The skill ceiling to kite someone isn't particularly high, especially when you are both at default move speed caps (you both W-key at the same speed).
Soft CC can be as impactful as a hard CC to combat, but since they don't remove player's ability to play - players can try change their situation through movement, positioning, using other skills, etc. It can force people to reach for other parts of their toolkit instead of taking their hands off the keyboard. This brings in another layer of gameplay where we have counters of counters, over 1:1 trades. It's the classic 1v1 to 1v2 mindset; in a 1v1 you're mostly looking for trades, 1v2 you start looking for leverage. Double hard CCs in a trade-based combat scale super poorly, one person burns your trade, and the second gets an uncounterable benefit.
There are also really cool and underexplored things in crowd control. An example that caught our entire group unaware was in Crowfall (a DOA Kickstarter). When you got blinded, your screen went black. Your UI remained, but you couldn't see anything. It was very cool, very disorienting, and probably too strong, but it was very immersive and really threw things for a loop.
I think Ashes could explore other non-traditional CC, like taunt forcing target switch or target lock, blinds making things blurry, disorients being disorienting, etc.
PvE:
CC becomes very finicky; chain CCing bosses or packs of mobs can trivialise encounters, requiring boss immunities. Once you start including immunities you introduce asymmetric gameplay - some mobs you can stun, some you can't, you won't know until you try or it shifts things around.
It also leads to skew in group comps; bring XYZ classes because they have more CC and make certain encounters easier.
Do it. The amount of forum crying you open yourselves up to by not giving everyone some form of CC break will be immense, and it's likely that at some point, you'd have to cave to give all archetypes a CC break, so you may as well dodge that bullet. If you don't, you'll probably see a massive archetype skew.
CC is almost an always take - the flexibility they bring is too powerful. Why take an extra damage ability when you can have X seconds of free damage, or improve your applicability because of a better snare?
Taking a CC break is dependent on a meta or FOTM archetype thing and if it's CC category specific. If it's universal, it's a mandatory must have, no exceptions for PvP, unless the trade-off is extreme, and then it becomes a case of "why is it this way".
A game without CC is just a stat and gear check game, where the most geared player pressing his buttons in a correct sequence wins. CC and breaks adds a layer of skill, for example interrupting an important cast etc..
2- Yes In my opinion all Archetypes should have some form of CC break, mayne supports have more tools, or more than one or lower cooldown on it, but all archetypes need to have one. Nothing's worse than depending on someone else to break your CC etc.. Maybe have some form of CC that only support classes can remove (like anti-heal, weaken, and other debuffs..) but basic CC break from stun, fear etc.. all archetypes should have one
3- Mmmh this one is flavor of the game question to be honest, but in my opinion, it should be free to unlock the CC break skill, but maybe spend points to further spec into it and improve it as well as spend points into speccing into CC versus damage
-CC are unfun makes u unable to any kind of outplay potential
-The one who CC first win
-literally makes u unable to play the game and just die
-MASS CC will get abused in a game like ashes, just like it is in any other massive pvp MMO
-No one likes to get CCds
-CC is pretty strong and it should be very limited
-CC SHOULD NOT Last more than a few seconds 1 - 2 s
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
Maybe CCs should be parry able or blockable? CCs are very strong if u can just CC someone with tab targetting and no skill at all, adding some kind of parry to the CC that gives u a big return against the guy that tried to CC u (I know for sure Tab targeting Andys will hate this idea)
by the end of the day... High Risk High Reward
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
tbh didnt understand the question cuz im not english fluid but ill say that If CC exist there should be always more than a few ways to counter it
but all classes should have at least one CC break, very important
* Every class should have some CC. Some may have just slows without any hard CC. other can have stuns/sleeps and some can have pushback/root effects and ect.
* I dont think CC Break should be connected with dmg when choosing. But more like: you choose between CC Break or mobility. And in that regard. Classes that have high mobility (Fighter/Ranger) should not have any option to choose CC Break. Meanwhile Classes with less mobility like the Mage should have CC break.
* In the same regard, Choosing secondary class may provide either Mobility or CC break.
* The only classes that can have CC Break that affects allies should be Cleric and Bard. BUT they should not be able to CC Break themselves + the cc Break should have high CD
* The tank class should be with a lot CC + CC Break, but no mobility spells. Maybe he can have a protection ability that will transfer the next CC from ally to himself.
* Some of the classes like fighter which may not have cc Break. Can have Defensive spells that can be used while being CC-ed, which would help him survive
In short: Make every class unique. The thing WOW did with recent patches, where every class has 4 spell rotation + CC + 1 CC break + 2 mobility spells + 1 self heal + 1 dmg burst with high cd + 1 defensive spell with high cd + 1 spell interupt + 1 heal reduce, IS the most f***ing trash thing they ever did. It made the classes bland with no uniqueness to them at all. So dont do this, and make every class unique, even if it means some classes will do better than other in particular situations.
Another idea can be: only the cleric for example having CC break for allies, While the Bard has something like the "Leap of Faith" ability That pulls ally from distance to your location. This can save the life of a CC-ed target.
OR Bard can have CC Immunity spell. With the difference that Using the CC immunity spell does not remove already existing CC on the target, but provide immunity for CC for the next couple of seconds. (similar to the shield vs heal mechanic)
Also i think something like the Malzahar ultimate from league of legends for a class can be cool too. Stronger form of CC that cant be cleansed/removed/breaked. but in the same time the caster is stunned for the same time as the target. (for example it can be a summoner spell cast by the Player, but you may have mastery option so the spell is cast by a pet instead if you invest in it)
Or what about Rogue having Mordekaiser ultimate from LOL. Where he sends his target to different dimension where you can 1v1 for some seconds.
What do you think about for example shield weapon, having option from the general skill tree that reduces the dmg mitigation the active blocking provides by 50% but also reduce any incoming CC by 70% if hit while using active block?
Blue can counter spells but has trouble permanently removing threats (but can bounce them temporarily to counter later)
Black is really good at destroying creatures, historically bad at dealing with artifacts and enchantments.
Red is good at destroying artifacts at lands. Doesn't destroy creatures directly but will deal damage to them to remove them.
Green mostly removes flying creatures but otherwise is generally bad at removing creatures. Very good at removing enchantments.
White is just imbalanced and good at removing everything.
We see a similar thing in RPGs like Pathfinder with different types of saving throws.
Agile (Dex) characters are good at avoiding area effects and things that impact mobility
Sturdy (Con) characters are good at breaking free of disabling hazards or things that paralyze and also debilitating poisons and physical stuns
Wise (Wis) characters are good at resisting enchantments and magical stuns (like 'daze' type effects).
Every archetype should have some ability to mitigate a segment of CCs, but not all of them. Fighters should absolutely have ways to break out of physical CC effects, but be more susceptible to sleep, 'hold person' or other enchantments.
Rogues should be able to dodge out of most mobility impacting skills but also be weaker on the stuns or enchantments.
Mages should be able to mentally shake themselves free of things like sleep or 'hold person' but be absolutely floored by physical effects like stun or trip.
Clerics should have ways to remove most CC effects. I'd prefer if they had different skills they had to spec into and know which one to use at the right time (rather than a general 'clense' that removes anything). Maybe go the Guild Wars 1 route where general cleanses removes only 1 thing, but a specific skill that removes conditions removes all conditions (conditions being physical, as opposed to hexes which are magical in that game.)
Secondary of course can modify these skills to help offset a weakness - a fighter/mage or fighter/cleric might be able to spec to deal better against enchantments and hexes compared to other fighters.
This creates a gameplay where understanding your weaknesses and strengths is paramount, and helps cement the 'rock paper scissors' aspect you've indicted you are going for.
I think CC is a necessity for PvE content, and CC breaks can be a necessity for PvX content. It makes gameplay more dynamic as opposed to attack/heal only.
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
I think all Archetypes having a CC break of some kind would be useful, and this could be dependent on the class spec, i.e. going for more damage in a raid as opposed to more CC/heal focused.
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points
I do really like this, as playing a CC role and minimizing damage output, thus almost solely focusing on CC and perhaps debuffs/buffs can create a more rewarding play experience if a user would like to deviate from playing a damage dealer/healer/tank. One could be a master of CC in their archetype if they practice enough, which is something I can appreciate.
As far as CC breaks I think that everyone should be able to break CC but it should be based on stats or resistance to what ever the CC would be classified as. I don't think it makes CC as fun of a choice in PVP situations if everyone just has a CC break to remove all CC's that can be applied.
I would like to not everyone have a way to get out of cc but that would only work if cc wasn't a permanent block on your entire class.
For example
For mages to cast a spell block on you and for the next like 3 seconds or so or a number of magic skills you can't use
Slows where it fits on classes
Roots are fine as long as they're not out right stuns
CC breaks on mages in forms of they can counter magical cc
Physical CC maybe let tanks pull their own allies out of a root area. would be cool to see XD
Speaking from a PVE only perspective, I enjoy having CC in game with diminishing returns. Once again from a PVE only perspective I am not a fan of having CC breaks from all archetypes unless it was coming from perhaps the Bard or Cleric or being damaged by an NPC.
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
From a PVE perspective only please see above.
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
It depends on how Intrepid Studios implements CC. If it's absolutely critical to gameplay to have CC breaks or CC to control the battlefield then yes i would choose it over damage but typically i would balance this out once again all depending on game design/implementation.
CC's also have a place in PVP, however what other games have done a good job of is modifying the CC when it comes to NPC's vs. player characters, such as having a 10 second daze/sleep on an NPC, but reducing that to 2 seconds on a player.
Also I think CC immunity after being CC'd should be strongly considered as being locked down with a stun + sleep + daze + trip so you are completely helpless and end up dying before you can even move is bad game design and just not fun.
CC breaks should be fairly limited and probably mainly for tanks or possibly healers as either a default skill or low on the trait priority list.
There definitely should be a trade-off when having CC or CC breaks, which is why I believe they should be mainly for tanks and healers as their DPS would already be low, so instead of boosting up their DPS via traits to make up for their low default damage, they spec more into CC/utility skills. DPS players who spec more for PVP and want a more balanced build should have a CC break at a higher tier since they aren't going full glass cannon build like they may have in a PVE setting.
I think CC adds strategy and complexity to the game. CC breaks/cleanses are another resource which in the same regard adds depth through decision making and risk into a game.
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
I like both when they're designed with an obvious balance/intentional approach and is an interesting design topic to explore.
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
Throughput vs. cc and cc breaks to me are an interesting choice to put before someone. My only issue is when the choice between CC and throughput renders a character drastically less effective. I would prefer to be able to reasonably pve and pvp with a build and not feel like I'm massively depowering myself by accounting/talenting for both.
Some thoughts on CC, CC break, and movement ability design
Like any other ability CC and CC breaks should follow any other ability design. Cooldowns, resource cost, etc. should scale with a number of factors (some examples below.) If you build out a sort of system to help diversify abilities and their counters the game will feel more exciting and rewarding without making some feel helpless and also make the choices feel more compelling because they know the options are balanced.
CC
* Severity of CC (slow, root, stun, etc.)
* Cast time (instant, short v. long cast time, number of charges stored, buff or reaction condition, etc.)
* Effectiveness (number of targets, area of effect, additional effects like knockback)
* Drawbacks (example CC makes targets invulnerable, provides a buff to target for a short duration, or applies a debuff/requires channeling from caster, does it have other requirements to be used? etc.)
CC Breaks
* Cast time again (as above)
* Effectiveness (as above plus does it work on specific types of CC, does it reduce duration v. cleanse it entirely, how many does it cleanse?)
* Drawbacks (same as above but reversed)
The key here is the apply the same to movement abilities as these directly relate to these in terms of balance in the cat and mouse game of cc, cc breaks, and movement abilities.
Is CCing someone fun? Is being CC'd fun? Is breaking out out of CC fun? Is having someone break out of your CC fun?
Observation:Weapon swings and spells can miss or can crit even....funny how CC and CC breaks never miss or crit in most games?
How do you feel about CC and CC breaks in MMORPGs?
As the Aggressor having CC abilities feels fun so I can get myself in an advantageous situation. Having a way to chain CC feels like I am skilled but also when it's so simple that anyone can do it, the adrenaline is fun but it's obviously broken so i know it's a cheap thrill. Chain CC should take intelligence and skill to pull off, not just a sequence of key binds. CC and or Chain CC should be a pass or fail game in and of itself. Fail the game and you should be punished for it. Take the Risk=>Reward/Punishment
As the Defender of a CC Ability being able to break out obviously helps me feel like I have a way back in the game. But being chain CC'd feel awful and makes me not want to engage with that class/spec in any capacity. I obviously need to pick on the small fries who cannot put me at such a disadvantage. Melee class being kited around unable to get in range. or Caster being stun locked in place unable to move. We have all seen the person before just go afk mid combat due to the futility of it., That is obviously not fun for them.
Not having any CC breaks makes me not want to play the game. And having LONG CD's on CC break is almost just as bad. If the person can stun me every 15/30 seconds and I cannot break it in the same windows(example CC break only once every 2 mins) then what am I able to do to put them at a disadvantage in a similar way? if the answer is nothing...I am not signing up. If I cannot CC or break the CC then my damage modifiers need to make up for the down time. or my ability to gap close needs to make up for the down time. Or they need to have a system that punishes them for CCing at the wrong time or interval.
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
I am fine with everyone being able to have a form of counter play. CC break does not always = Counterplay but it is one type. Being able to make up for lost time or lost health through the CC is an example of good counter play in addition to a CC break. Penalty to the CC is something i hardly ever see. For example. they can CC whoever they want so why not make it so if you CC the wrong class spec or if you CC the wrong person at the wrong time they are punished for it. This is shown in wow with interrupts and clairvoyance (you interrupted at the wrong time, therefore now i can clear cast without interruption). Why not if you stun at the wrong time, i am now free from stuns for an amount of time.
Example ( You stun a Warlock but because the warlock has a specific talent or buff active the stun punishes the person using the stun) or a class/spec can place punishment buff on players to help them counter the cc.
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
I think specializing for situations is not always fun. Specializing for fantasy is fun. Do i want to be a fire mage or a frost mage? When i have to spec out of what i fantasize in order to play better or have an advantage/optimize then the fun is lost.
Damage is king. But if the damage is SOOO high that not having a CC means life or death then i have to opt out of damage for the CC break. But that sort of high damage environment in and of itself is not fun. Stun me for 4 seconds and be able to kill me in that 4 second window.....why am i bothering to learn the game at all in that case. Especially if a cannot consistently break the cc that will inevitably happen because my break is on CD
Where WoW went wrong on CC breaks is that they limited them to one use within 5 minutes. What if I am in a 5v5 battle and am constantly being CCed because I am the only healer? I like the fact that they are attempting to bring unison to the group of fighters. However, if you aren't as organized as the other group then you lose.
I think there needs to be the ability for an individual's gameplay to stand out. If someone is a good player they should have the ability to stand out and turn the tides of the fight. So CC chained and being put out of the fight indefinitely should never be a thing.
Perhaps if there is a CC Break more often it allows for a more versatile fight. I think that should be play tested and if there isn't a long drawn out fight that lasts 30 minutes then that might be the way. either that or there probably needs to be a limit of 1 or 2 CCs max every x amount of time, in a PvP scenario. Some testing needs to be done by some pro players perhaps in the WoW scene. It's one of the hardest decisions to figure out and understandably why you've waited to address it.
A middle-ground is most desired, naturally. The CCs shouldn't be too long/chainable so as to disable a player for ~ +25sec. On the other hand, too much micro CC is perhaps even more annoying, making it hard to get 1 cast off. At least with longer CC it is clear where you will have your window to cast. But as I said, middle-ground is the way to go.
Also I'm not sure how Intrepid plans to handle differences in the CC against player & non-player targets ( for example, CC lasting longer against npc ). The one thing I would caution against, in this domain in general, is having too much tuning specific to each area of the game. This is time-consuming for devs and confusing for players when abilities have separate, hidden modifiers for PvP vs PvE. The closer you can align everything the simpler it will be for all. Of course Raid Bosses are exception.
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
I think it's a welcome addition to each kit, so that an equippable trinket to break CC is not necessary. Players will not always be a in group setting and that CC break could be vital in a sticky situation.
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
I think that is should be fairly easy to pick up your main CC talent nodes, with following talents enhancing the CC if desired...the same principle as other nodes.
Overall I would like a well balanced talent tree such that one doesn't feel like they need a drastically different spec for PvP vs PvE ( for example ), with PvP being more CC focused usually. However, constantly re-speccing might be the intended gameplay so I'm not too sure there.
Regards
Adding to my original thought. I think I’ve come up with an alternative. If crowd control (CC) BREAK is more frequently available and harder to fully lock someone out, that would be ideal. It doesn’t matter if everyone on the team has CC; if I have a way to counter a few of them, then CC becomes less effective unless executed perfectly. Essentially, I want CC to rely on team coordination to be impactful. Maybe make CC duration scale dependent upon your party size.
if you have longer fights and respawn times where you can use them they are ok.
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
you can have different CC and different breaks like you tank can stun, ranger can snare, mage sleeps etc. but have it that the different classes can only break it like the mage teleports out of snare, the tank has an invigorate that keeps them awake from the sleep, etc.
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
all cc and cc breaks are usually tied to other abilities. like the rangers jump attack that snares, the tanks shield slam that stuns
I thinks CCs are a necessary evil when it comes to PVP being able to control your opponent can add depth and allows for other abilities that would be too OP to face without at least the threat of cc.
All Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
CC becomes extremely unfun when it can't be played around, so it being universal that CC can be managed by an opponent is mandatory. There are a couple of ways to do this: either CC can be dodged or avoided as part of the mechanics that could come with them. For example, being able to turn your character away from a blind effect, like flash bangs in FPS games, or being able to roll out of roots, or being a ability in the game that breaks those CC
If you are not going to at least have that type of individual avoidance for all the CC in the game, then I believe all classes should have either avoidance or a break. For example, in SWTOR, a Concealment Operative which is the MMO rogue equivalent had a roll ability, and when they rolled, they got a 100% defense chance. They could roll once every 10 seconds, so they could time that roll to dodge CC. I believe this to be a fun mechanic because you could use roots to prevent the roll, then follow up with hard CC and blow them up.
So for classes with CC avoidance, they could have it more often and have longer or no CC cleanses at all. This way, they have a way to fight the CC but are punished if they are caught unaware or mess up the timing. Conversely, another class could have a traditional CC break, allowing them to be better at dealing with control because it doesn't matter if they are caught; they can choose to break it.
Choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
I generally prefer that a class can't get CC breaks or avoidance in a tree because then it becomes mandatory unless universal ways of avoiding CC already exists. Skills points should always be hard choices between points and if not choosing a point makes your time not fun or to inefficient then you don't have a choice its an illusion of one. Extra CC can be added as skill points but you should be very careful when adding those especially on demand because it can quickly become a toxic meta as even if it isn't to powerful taking a lot of on demand CC for no reason from a build becomes just a negative play experience if someone is going to get CC from a tree it should be avoidable like turning away from Cassiopeia stun in League or a result of a built up status effect like trip existing in Ashes right now.
Extra
To summarize every player should be able to deal with stun with breaks, avoidance, or individual mechanics of a stun and to top it all off should be some time of CC immunity after you take enough of them to prevent chain CCing. CC breaks should over dmg should not be a choice a player has to make in a tree because it's not a choice. Adding CC is a choice and can be allowed but it should be only introduced in the trees carefully and should not be on demand CC should be either but status effects that result in CC or Dodge able CC like turning flashbangs. Honestly that choice be more about choices between dmg but choices between utility.
In particular, I’m eager to test how these massive group encounters will influence node development and territory control. The balance between PvE and PvP in these environments could define a server's unique growth and culture, and it’ll be fascinating to see how group dynamics and alliances will evolve.
For me, being involved in the large-scale PvP and PvE events, and seeing how they push players to work together for rewards and progression, will be a priority during Alpha Two testing. It’s a core part of what makes Ashes so ambitious and unique. I believe this level of cooperation will greatly enrich the experience and make progression more meaningful.