How do you feel about CC and CC breaks in MMORPGs?
- I feel that CC should not be used as enabler for "one-shot combos", and other similar stuff. It should be there as assistance, not as something mandatory to enable you to do damage. Therefore, I do not think one class should have access to "CC combos". It's fine if you combo it with multiple different classes, in order to lock someone down, but 1 class or rather 1 person shouldn't be able to do that.
- I hate chain cc, and I feel diminishing returns on CC should be mandatory.
- Variety is important. Each class needs access to different CC abilities, Mages might have sleep, as the only hard cc option, with a bunch of slows, freezes, etc. While a Ranger might have access to immobilizes, slows, roots.
If you make it so every class has access to same CC abilities, it just decreases class variety and uniqueness of each class.
Bad example of this is GW2, where every class can do everything (basically).
- Some classes should have access to more CC than others. After all, each class should be unique, and this is also one of the ways to do it.
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
- CC breaks are fine, but not every class should have them in their ability kit. Or rather, each class might have specific ways to counter specific CC effects.
Maybe Bard will have some anti-stun abilities/short time buffs. Fighter might have some anti-slow ability/buff. These abilities should be used pre-emptively, or if you are already under that cc-effect, you are able to use them to decrease the duration/intensity of said effect or to completely remove it.
Also since everything is based around group play, you then might want to have some classes, in order to counter specific things.
In terms of general cc-breaks, you might have to get a specific item that has an active portion that breaks some CC spells, if your class doesn't have access to cc break for that specific type of cc.
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
- I generally think that should be the case. I can focus on more CC/CC breaks for PvP related stuff, but I might not do as much damage. Though that's something you should decide, based on the class you play, and your playstyle in general.
I might want to play as a backline Mage dps, and I might not care about cc/cc breaks as much, as I really just want to deal as much damage as possible to enemies.
At the same time, if I play a more frontline focused Mage, I might want more cc/cc breaks, as I'm at bigger risk of being caught, and I do want ability to cc enemies, in order for my team to have an easier time of dealing with them.
When it comes to cc in pvp if u are CCd for 3 seconds lets say maybe u get some ternacity that next cc that should be maybe 1 sec lasts only for 0.5sec and one long CCbreak ability each class or smaller CD on bard/cleric soo they are not just heal bots
I think not every Archetyp should have some type of hard cc (stun, rout, silence,...) but some type of soft cc ( slow, push, slow attakspeed and casts,...)
The Archetypen with the most burst dps schold be the ones with the least hard cc.
Hard cc should be very rare and with high coldown so that it is a huge comitment to use a hard cc but can be critical at the right moment. If the duration is long it schould have a other way to be broken the just cc break from a support or your one.
1. How do you feel about CC and CC breaks in MMORPGs?
While CC can add a layer of strategy to MMORPGs, its overuse often leads to frustrating and unenjoyable gameplay. Excessive CC mechanics can strip players of control over their characters for prolonged periods, turning engaging combat into a cycle of helplessness. This not only diminishes the player's agency but also disrupts the flow of the game.
In PvP scenarios, prevalent CC abilities can create an unbalanced playing field where victory is determined not by skill or strategy but by who can immobilize the other first. This can lead to a toxic environment where players feel cheated out of fair fights. In PvE, over-reliance on CC can make encounters feel monotonous, as players repeatedly disable enemies rather than engaging with dynamic combat mechanics.
CC breaks, intended to counteract CC effects, can further complicate the issue. If CC is so rampant that CC breaks become a necessity, it indicates a fundamental imbalance in the game's design. Players should not have to dedicate resources or abilities solely to counteract an overpowered mechanic. Instead, CC should be used sparingly to enhance combat, not dominate it.
Some MMOs use excessively long CC which prevents player counterplay due to lack of removal/resistance options. This results in players getting stunlocked, feeling helpless and generally not fun gameplay. That's why it's crucial for there to be balance between CC and counters to CC. Hard CCs should fall between 0.5-3 seconds and soft CCs can last around 0.5-8 seconds depending on the effect. Some on the lower range of duration are better used as interrupts while the longer lasting ones are to pin down targets.
Every primary archetype should have some form of a CC break plus diminishing returns for CC. An additional option to mitigate CCs should be properly timed dodges, blocks or movement skills which would be reactive and skillful gameplay. Some classes/archetypes should have more access than others via base abilities, augments and specs. Tank should have the most access to CC Breaks, Resistance or Immunity AND Hard CCs, the next should be Fighter. Here's a breakdown of how it should work:
Archetypes with the most access to CC and Hard CC:
1. Tank - Has the most access to all forms of CC and most powerful depending on spec/ability choice including Stuns, knockdowns, knockback/knockups, pulls, slows, roots, silence, etc.
2. Fighter - Has the second highest access to Hard CC and various CCs based on spec/class including Stuns, knockdowns, knockback/knockups, pulls, slows, roots, silence, etc. Has more access with Tank secondary archetype
3. Mage has a fair amount of CC options depending on spec and ability choice. Has more access to hard CC with Tank or Fighter secondary archetype
4. Support has a fair amount of CC options depending on spec and ability choice. Has more access to hard CC with Tank or Fighter secondary archetype
5. Ranger and Rogue - Has mostly soft CCs and limited access to hard CC. Has more access to hard CC with any of the above secondary archetypes
Archetypes with the most access to CC breaks/Reduction/Immunity/Cleanses:
1. Tank - The Highest access of CC breaks/Reduction/Immunity out of any class. Cleanses only via Support secondary Archetype
2. Fighter - Their own CC break+ a good amount of CC breaks/Reduction/Immunity via base ability choice, augments and specs. Cleanses only via Support secondary Archetype
3. Support- Their own CC break and limited additional CC breaks/Reduction/Immunity via base ability choice, augments and specs, but have the highest access to allied CC cleanses or group cleanses.
4. Mage, Ranger, Rogue - Their own CC break and limited access to additional CC breaks/Reduction/Immunity. Cleanses only via Support secondary Archetype. Has more access to CC breaks/reduction/Immunity with any of the above secondary archetypes via base ability choice, augments and specs.
Lastly, I believe there should be CCs that are common across all classes like slow/stun and ones that are archetype specific like knockdown, knockback for tank/fighter and sleep, root for mage/support. So some archetypes will get those ability choices from the start and additional effects are accessible via augments from secondary archetypes.
How do you feel about CC and CC breaks in MMORPGs?
As a general rule, I think CC should have diminishing returns. If 4 players stun another, the duration shouldn't be 4 times longer, even if they are able to chain one after the other. CC should feel as good to use, as it should to be used on. Which can be challenging if said CC takes your agency away. Likewise with CC breaks. I would prefer CC to be well telegraphed, so that it feels like it is your fault for getting caught in it, rather than just because your foe pressed 5 on their keyboard.
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
I can dig it, provided some have more then others. Some are better at applying CC, while others are better at avoiding it. That being said, given the Archetype x Archetype system, you can get away with some not having any, and simply allow them to get it by taking a secondary Archetype that does.
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
There needs to be a push/pull with skill points/slots, so that there is always a limit on how much you can reasonably bring to the table. Naturally, spending on skills other then damage will reduced your damage output. It's kind of a given.
And that's fine, if you want to heavily invest in CC over damage, you should be able to, so long as there are reasonable deminishing returns should be the case with everything.
Comments
- I feel that CC should not be used as enabler for "one-shot combos", and other similar stuff. It should be there as assistance, not as something mandatory to enable you to do damage. Therefore, I do not think one class should have access to "CC combos". It's fine if you combo it with multiple different classes, in order to lock someone down, but 1 class or rather 1 person shouldn't be able to do that.
- I hate chain cc, and I feel diminishing returns on CC should be mandatory.
- Variety is important. Each class needs access to different CC abilities, Mages might have sleep, as the only hard cc option, with a bunch of slows, freezes, etc. While a Ranger might have access to immobilizes, slows, roots.
If you make it so every class has access to same CC abilities, it just decreases class variety and uniqueness of each class.
Bad example of this is GW2, where every class can do everything (basically).
- Some classes should have access to more CC than others. After all, each class should be unique, and this is also one of the ways to do it.
- CC breaks are fine, but not every class should have them in their ability kit. Or rather, each class might have specific ways to counter specific CC effects.
Maybe Bard will have some anti-stun abilities/short time buffs. Fighter might have some anti-slow ability/buff. These abilities should be used pre-emptively, or if you are already under that cc-effect, you are able to use them to decrease the duration/intensity of said effect or to completely remove it.
Also since everything is based around group play, you then might want to have some classes, in order to counter specific things.
In terms of general cc-breaks, you might have to get a specific item that has an active portion that breaks some CC spells, if your class doesn't have access to cc break for that specific type of cc.
- I generally think that should be the case. I can focus on more CC/CC breaks for PvP related stuff, but I might not do as much damage. Though that's something you should decide, based on the class you play, and your playstyle in general.
I might want to play as a backline Mage dps, and I might not care about cc/cc breaks as much, as I really just want to deal as much damage as possible to enemies.
At the same time, if I play a more frontline focused Mage, I might want more cc/cc breaks, as I'm at bigger risk of being caught, and I do want ability to cc enemies, in order for my team to have an easier time of dealing with them.
The Archetypen with the most burst dps schold be the ones with the least hard cc.
Hard cc should be very rare and with high coldown so that it is a huge comitment to use a hard cc but can be critical at the right moment. If the duration is long it schould have a other way to be broken the just cc break from a support or your one.
Yeah, THIS.
Every primary archetype should have some form of a CC break plus diminishing returns for CC. An additional option to mitigate CCs should be properly timed dodges, blocks or movement skills which would be reactive and skillful gameplay. Some classes/archetypes should have more access than others via base abilities, augments and specs. Tank should have the most access to CC Breaks, Resistance or Immunity AND Hard CCs, the next should be Fighter. Here's a breakdown of how it should work:
Archetypes with the most access to CC and Hard CC:
1. Tank - Has the most access to all forms of CC and most powerful depending on spec/ability choice including Stuns, knockdowns, knockback/knockups, pulls, slows, roots, silence, etc.
2. Fighter - Has the second highest access to Hard CC and various CCs based on spec/class including Stuns, knockdowns, knockback/knockups, pulls, slows, roots, silence, etc. Has more access with Tank secondary archetype
3. Mage has a fair amount of CC options depending on spec and ability choice. Has more access to hard CC with Tank or Fighter secondary archetype
4. Support has a fair amount of CC options depending on spec and ability choice. Has more access to hard CC with Tank or Fighter secondary archetype
5. Ranger and Rogue - Has mostly soft CCs and limited access to hard CC. Has more access to hard CC with any of the above secondary archetypes
Archetypes with the most access to CC breaks/Reduction/Immunity/Cleanses:
1. Tank - The Highest access of CC breaks/Reduction/Immunity out of any class. Cleanses only via Support secondary Archetype
2. Fighter - Their own CC break+ a good amount of CC breaks/Reduction/Immunity via base ability choice, augments and specs. Cleanses only via Support secondary Archetype
3. Support- Their own CC break and limited additional CC breaks/Reduction/Immunity via base ability choice, augments and specs, but have the highest access to allied CC cleanses or group cleanses.
4. Mage, Ranger, Rogue - Their own CC break and limited access to additional CC breaks/Reduction/Immunity. Cleanses only via Support secondary Archetype. Has more access to CC breaks/reduction/Immunity with any of the above secondary archetypes via base ability choice, augments and specs.
Lastly, I believe there should be CCs that are common across all classes like slow/stun and ones that are archetype specific like knockdown, knockback for tank/fighter and sleep, root for mage/support. So some archetypes will get those ability choices from the start and additional effects are accessible via augments from secondary archetypes.
As a general rule, I think CC should have diminishing returns. If 4 players stun another, the duration shouldn't be 4 times longer, even if they are able to chain one after the other. CC should feel as good to use, as it should to be used on. Which can be challenging if said CC takes your agency away. Likewise with CC breaks. I would prefer CC to be well telegraphed, so that it feels like it is your fault for getting caught in it, rather than just because your foe pressed 5 on their keyboard.
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
I can dig it, provided some have more then others. Some are better at applying CC, while others are better at avoiding it. That being said, given the Archetype x Archetype system, you can get away with some not having any, and simply allow them to get it by taking a secondary Archetype that does.
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
There needs to be a push/pull with skill points/slots, so that there is always a limit on how much you can reasonably bring to the table. Naturally, spending on skills other then damage will reduced your damage output. It's kind of a given.
And that's fine, if you want to heavily invest in CC over damage, you should be able to, so long as there are reasonable deminishing returns should be the case with everything.