Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Comments
I like the strategic use and wariness around CC in MMOs, but there needs to be well-thought-out diversity in the specific effect of, use case for, and approach to execution of every archetype's CC. Every archetype should have some form of CC, but they should look and feel very different from each other to use and be hit by.
Here are some concepts to illustrate the point:
Fighter: [Hamstring] An instant-cast, precisely targeted attack that hamstrings the opponent, reducing movement speed by 50% for 5 seconds and preventing the use of speed-boosting/long-jump mechanics. The ability can be CC-broken. The ability can be spec'd into to apply a ticking hemorrhage-bleed on the target that lasts for 10 seconds, and persists even if the speed reduction is broken through CC-break. This is good for fighters because they tend not to be particularly mobile and need to either keep opponents in range, or make escapes.
Tank: [Wall of Spears] An instant cast horizontal line of magic spears burst from the earth at a 45 degree angle in the direction you're facing with a three meter wingspan, dealing piercing damage, knocking back enemies within 1 meter of the wall at the time of execution a distance of 1 meter, and slowing them for 3 seconds. The slow can be CC-broken. The wall is impassible for 10 seconds. The ability can be spec'd into to have it deliver piercing damage and a 3-second slow to any additional enemies who make contact with the pointy side until it expires. This is good for tanks because their mission is to protect others around them. A brief knockback and slow applied to those closest to the tank at the time of execution will prevent them from maneuvering around the wall so quickly that it renders the ability a low-value investment.
Rogue: [Sucker Punch] An instant cast KO style stun that last for 10 seconds, preventing all ability usage including CC-break until damaged or healed. The user must be in stealth in order to activate this ability. The ability can be spec'd into to apply a dazed effect to the target for 3 seconds whenever the initial stun fades (either naturally or through interruption), reducing movement speed, attack speed, and casting time. This is good for rogues, because they tend to pick out loners, or people who would otherwise be a strategic asset to a larger team. They're not armored very well, so they depend on patience to find the perfect moment to strike and get a head-start on their opponent.
Ranger: [Nature's Wrath] A 1 second cast root-style stun that calls on the powers of nature to ensnare the target and hold them from movement for 10 seconds. There is a 15% chance that any damage caused will break the root. The effect can be CC-broken. The ability can be spec'd into to make the forces of nature track the target for five seconds after the root is broken, either naturally or through CC-break, grasping out with slowly fading tendrils that apply a 5 second slow applied in a waning gradient. This works well for rangers, because they like to kite their enemies and keep them at a distance. The VFX could be altered to fit the environment the opponent is standing on - healthy roots for forests/tundra/freshwaster, vines for tropics, gnarled/thorny dry roots in the desert, or seaweed in the ocean.
Mage: [Displacement] A 1.5 second cast ability which temporarily disrupts the enemy's tie to the material plane, causing them to teleport anywhere from 2-5 meters in a random direction (including upward Z coordinates) once upon casting, and again every 2.5 seconds for 10 seconds. The ability can be spec'd into to cause the enemy to become disoriented, reversing the effects of all movement input for the spell's duration and for 5 seconds after the base effect of the spell fades. This ability and its spec-effects cannot be CC-broken. This is good for mages because they often require escapes, and the unpredictable nature of it plays into their character fantasy of being somewhat experimental manipulators of (see: meddlers in) the arcane - occasionally to their own detriment.
Summoner: [Summon: Long-Pawed Langur] A 1.5 second cast which summons a fantasized version of a langur monkey on the enemy's shoulders, who takes no joy in this unexpected piggyback ride, wrapping its paws around the eyes of its unwilling mount and blinding them for 20 seconds, or until enough damage has been dealt to it (either via 50% damage dealt to the target being delivered to the langur indirectly [including damage dealt by the summoner or their allies] or direct damage dealt to the langur by a player friendly to the target) to dissipate its essence. While blinded, full-screen VFX will blot out the target's vision (you could get pretty creative with this, creating some long-fingered monkey-paw-like shapes with black fill and an edge gradient that cycle through a 5 or 10 second long animation loop which offers slight, rapidly-shifting glimpses of their screen). While blinded, the target is able to target any attackable player or NPC (enemy or ally), activate abilities, and is slowed by 25%. This gives the target the option to continue their offensive pursuit, but puts their allies at risk of friendly fire via direct attacks or AoE until the Langur is dispatched or the spell ends. This ability can be spec'd into to summon an enraged langur, who deals ticking damage to the target until it's dispatched or the spell ends. This would work well for summoners, because (to me) they offer a somewhat whimsical class fantasy based on the abilities of their summons, not on arcane magics or physical prowess. Because they're a somewhat role-flexible class, this gives summoners the opportunity to escape, to kite, or, in battlefield situations, to force the enemy to either sit out their combat until the langur is dispatched, or risk hurting their allies.
Cleric: [Invert Essence] An instant cast spell which functions similarly to an interrupt, but rather than stopping an opponent's spell-casting, it allows the target's next spell or melee attack to be carried out, and upon confirmation of damage dealt, converts it to healing instead. If, upon casting, the target is not currently casting any spells, it simply makes the next attack carried out by the target deal healing instead of damage for the next thirty seconds. If, upon casting, the target is currently casting or channeling a spell, then the opponent has a chance to notice the cleric's spellcast, cancel their own spellcast, and use up the Invert Essence on something less damaging. This ability could be spec'd into such that if, upon casting, the target is currently casting or channeling a spell, then that specific spell is marked by Invert Essence, giving it a golden aura on the target's hotbar for thirty seconds. Until the aura fades, that ability now does healing to enemies, and is not castable on allies. This ensures that if a cleric is trying to limit the enemy's use of a specific spell, which they may have been saving their Invert Essence to manipulate, that the enemy is still blocked from dealing damage with it, even if they cancel the spellcast after the cleric uses their Invert Essence. The enemy must chose to either wait out the thirty seconds, or use it ASAP to activate its CD. This works well for clerics, because they operate primarily as healers or support. They are rarely, themselves, the targets of damage, particularly in PvE scenarios, and tend to be shielded from enemy fire in PvP scenarios. Their use of CC should focus on reducing the damage of the enemy while slipping in some healing for their allies, particularly those being targeted by powerful abilities.
Bard: The Bard showcase livestream is still fresh enough in my mind for me to say I feel happy with the CC abilities they currently have, for now anyway. I think it makes sense for them to have multiple forms of CC to suit various situations, none of which are particularly costly for their enemies, but when strung together, collectively weaken opposing groups of NPCs or players. This suits the support role that they primarily serve pretty well and keeps them from being too powerful as soloists. If a bard does double-spec into their archetype, however, I think they should have at least one CC that's a little more powerful than the others. Perhaps this could be done through the Saga system somehow.
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
I don't like the idea of every class having a CC break. If you're a class that already suffers from mobility issues, like a Fighter, Cleric, or a Tank, than you should have one. Otherwise, if you really need it that badly, you should look into a trinket / piece of jewelry / limited use item that helps you in dire situations. Some CC ability effects, like the ones I illustrated above, should be able to be mitigated through good communication and teamwork.
If everyone has CC, it makes the game balanced through a subjective equality of opportunity. If everyone has CC-breaking, it makes the game boring through a subjective equality of outcome. This is similar to what you'd get if every class had a boring, generic cousin of a small handful of CC abilities. VFX for class-flavor won't get you very far for engaging gameplay. The mechanics and decision making that various abilities provide to the players of each unique class need to be diverse and engaging as well.
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
Players should absolutely get to choose whether to spec further into their CC or CC-breaks (if their class offers one) at the cost of damage, or vice versa.
For CC-breaks, I think there should be three tiers:
Tier 1: Low-mobility classes like the Fighter, Cleric, and Tank get a CC-break as part of their kit. They can spec into making it more useful/powerful/available at the cost of damage.
Tier 2: Medium-mobility classes like the Mage and Summoner should have the option to spec into a basic-level CC-break at the cost of damage.
Tier 3: High-mobility classes like the Ranger, Rogue, and Bard should not have any CC-breaks inherent in their kit, or available in their class-trees. They can, however, choose to have necklaces, rings, or trinkets enchanted to offer high-CD (maybe 10 minutes?) CC-break at the cost of enchantments they could've otherwise chosen. These enchantments should be collectively marked as unique, and only one piece of gear enhanced with one of them should be equippable at a time.
While other games would use breaks as another skill some games use items for CC breaks, either consumables or active abilities on a wearable. I typically prefer cc breaks on consumables, because this makes the player prepare for these situations and helps crafters produce something useful. This also frees up a skill slot for more optional skills rather than making each class need a specific ability, by just the consumable.
Overall CC should be included as a starter ability to get players used to using the ability. CC break effects should us used as a consumable for self and targeted players.
I think CC and CC breaks are important and a needed element in MMO's currently. Like most things they should work a bit differently in PvP vs PvE. Lets look at PvE first.
PvE CC
I have always enjoyed more difficult combat encounters, where CC becomes a very important tool to be used to keep the group alive though a fight. If enemies take an entire group to kill then having three such enemies loose and attacking the group could mean a group wipe, thus the need for some sort of CC. Vs monsters a longer CC makes more sense especially if the individual mob is very difficult to kill. Original EQ is a good example of this where if you even pulled 2 mobs without any CC could mean the end of your group. If mobs are going to be very difficult like this then you will need strong CC to handle extra creatures.
Another reason to have CC is to stop some people from developing bad play habits for harder encounters. Again this depends on how hard the mobs will be to kill. Generally you don't want your cleric in a melee or your caster fighting three creatures at once, when the tank is trying to keep the mob or mobs on him or herself. Having CC means people have to focus their targeting and not be stupid and hit the wrong target.
PvP
Again CC and CC breaks are important in PvP. on the Plus side of strong longer lasting CC in PvP is the chance for a small organized group to eliminate or take on a much larger less organized group. The game I look at for PvP the most was Dark Age of Camelot. They had long CC abilities that vs a lower ability player would totally dominate them. Vs higher level ability players it was not as relevant. In group vs group of equal numbers and abilities the Power of Aoe CC was not as important but still played an important roll. Whatever group managed to get off a Aoe CC on the other group first had an advantage. This did not always mean you won but it did help.
Imo the most important thing about CC in PvP is it is one of two tools that a small group has giving them a chance vs a much larger group. The other being movement speed.
On the negative side of CC it can make people feel powerless and unable to play as their group is killed around them. This can be mitigated by CC Breaks and CC resistances but it is something that comes with CC in general.
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
Every Archetype should have a self use CC Break, it should be on a medium timer with some resistance given to CC for a duration after use so the person can not be chain stunned and killed etc.
Each Archetype should have access to a single target form of CC. Like others have mentioned each type should be relevant to the Class. These single target CC's should not be very long in duration but useful in different situations. A few Classes should have more powerful CC's and Aoe CC's in their tool box. This would give these classes another reason to be desired for certain encounters. There should also be some classes that have more Powerful CC Breaks like group purges or purging other players.
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
Anytime there is a CC or a CC break I would take that ability before Damage abilities unless CC in the game is so weak it is pointless or if I am part of a organized group where my CC is over redundant and I need the points to fulfill a more important job
•Idk need to play with a different system to get a feel. But as I always say in these forums I think the mmo I spent the most amount of time in got it so that it feels fair (Warhammer online). Example: if you stunned, silenced or knockdowned for 2 sec they got a 20 sec immune to that type of CC (Stuns).
If you rooted someone for 3 sec then they got a 30 sec immune for that type of cc (roots).
Melee dps had better cc breaks than range dps as compensation but alot if not all had some sort of cc break.
I was happy how it worked and I guess I want similar type in Ashes but maybe there is a better way to do it idk.
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
•No problem with all classes have some form of cc break. But would probably be best to balance it out so that everyone can't do everything at the same time. Damage, CC, mobility, survivability etc you should only be able to pick a few, not all.
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
• Make both paths viable in different scenarios. PVE boss or glass cannon pvp group maybe a full damage path is better and in other scenarios CC and CC breaks might be better. So in other words maybe do not make CC so strong that it's mandatory for all scenarios.
EDIT: Also the diminishing returns on all these different micro CCs in WoW was also absolute garbage. The fact that you had to have a DR Tracking mod to know which CCs share DR with other CCs is just dumb. Pool ALL CC into a CC category without subcategories, and just have them fill up the bar so that players can actually play the game.
Active CC skills or spells should be focus on soft CC like mage’s sleep spell or ranger’s weight ammo or immobilized or pulled or knock back(pulled and knock back are almost hard CCs to me).
Active CC breaks should fit archetype role, support role is the one should have abilities to break CC effects on teammates, tank is the one should have abilities to break CC effect on it own but doesn’t effect to teammates, fighter should be endure CC effects and each CC or stack makes fighter’s damage higher etc.
Gears should give character CC resistance to decrease the effect or duration on certain CC type depends on armor type and also passive CC breaks that have a chance to break soft and hard CCs by heartbeat.
Why does EVERY class need a get out of jail free card? thing should make sense according to their class. i can understand a magic user having some kind of magical way to get out of stuff, but why does say, a bard need a get out of jail free card? his get out of jail free card is not getting into the jail in the first place. when you go down that road you start becoming like every other mmo.
I am not a fan of everyone having a get out of jail free card.. it ruins the potential synergy between classes. when you add get out of jail free cards to the game, you lower the skill ceiling and people play worse. thats what equipment is for, or trinkets, or skills/spells. you should have to EARN your get out of jail free card, not be given to you. for example if you're a cleric, you can put a shield on everyone that says the next maladiction placed on you is negated or somethign. that makes you useful in that way. or have a class who can absorb that spell and benefit from it. i just dont like the design choice to give everyone stuff for free requiring players to do less to deal with stuff. TO ME personally it only makes sense with classes that have obvious things to negate it such as a clense from a healer, or ice block from a mage or something of that nature. or even some kind of nature wizard that puts a circle on the ground and as long as you stand in it no negative effects will befall you etc.
I think they are essential and need to be in the game. There is nothing worse then chasing someone and cant stop them. It feels like a helpless battle.
CC is fundamental and an ability on the hot bar. To limit their power there must be a cool down. CC should also be counted in a way of how you build your character. Ie skill 0.5s reduction in stuns.
CC breaks in my opinion should be more skill/preparation built. IE timing the perfect parry or carrying a specific potion to mitigate the CC. The would require players to go down the crafting path to obtain these items or buy them from the shop
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
These are important in every class. They dont have to have as many or be as powerful but there is nothing worse when soloing and you dont have CC. However if the you dont have CC you would like to think your character is compensated in some way
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
This is perfect and what would make the game interesting. Its important to be able to define your character. Metas for class build are too common and I think this would help level out the field
I think CC is a good strategic lever. Games where CC is allowed to run freely, though, is never enjoyable to play with direct counter play to it.
CC breaks, I think, are important to have access to, usually with on a longer cooldown as to only be a saving grace.
I enjoy CC as it gives immediate feedback and is visually understood. Hard CC where you can no longer act is more visible than a -20% damage debuff. And in the same turn enjoy breaking a key CC in response.
I think CC should be metered against damage and skill. The harder the CC access someone has less overall damage they should inflict or a far higher skill is required to pull it off (long cast time, slow skillshot, combo action, channelled cast instead, etc)
CC breaks in my view are usually for hard CC. Stuns, sleeps, knock down effects etc. things that prevent you from acting entirely.
This wouldn’t prevent things like silences, slows, chills, other debuffs. Softer CC.
Snap duration CC, interrupts, to interrupt casting times I think is overall a good thing for both Pve and PvP as long as it’s not too prevalent.
I also like beak bars / resistance bars, CC gauges etc in games where you need to use your Cc to break the bar and weaken the (usually boss) enemy.
In PvE, I think breaking rotation to react in MMOs is a great thing, having to CC to prevent an attack, having to CC break suddenly, use an interrupt, strategy that causes players to make choices is more fun to me.
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
I think it’s only a good thing. Usually on a longer cooldown or tied to utility. Having CC break allows for harder CC effects throughout the game. With no CC break it feels worse to be dealt any hard CC and the strategy becomes how long can you lock down your opponent.
I like the idea of support classes having access to CC break for others or a CC immunity.
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
The harder the CC should always be the more difficult skill to pull off or be far less damaging. To pick CC is to lower your overall damage for the sake of control or require far more skill and planning to pull off.
My opinion is everyone should naturally have access to CC break somewhere in their kit without having to spec for it. A utility that is not tied to normal dps rotation.
Out of all the cc and cc break mechanics for pvp specifically in MMORPGs surprisingly the one I enjoyed the most was done by Star Wars: The old Republic. I'd suggest checking it out. Super simple, it didn't make it too complex like the difference between stuns, dazes, damage breaking, etc. When it came to cc immunity. Just 1 white bar that when filled the target would be immune to ccs for a set amount of time. You can have every class have cc and cc breakers and balence the effectiveness of these within something akin to this white bar system. This makes it user friendly to MMOs but also allows for complex interesting and balancing of these cc and cc breaking abilities.
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
I think at the very least some version of cc break is good for every class, especially for PVP content. Again you could balance how well the cc break is all around the white bar system mentioned above so it's easy to notice when someone is cced or is immune, etc.
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
I honestly like the idea. Maybe a core cc and cc break, with skills either min or maxing those capabilities. All of these Examples again i think would work well in the white bar system
For example a tanky character could have skills that opt out of any cc break, but his white bar fills very fast compared to others so enemy players will create a cc immune tank by being too careless with ccing him. Or he can go the opposite where his white bar fills more slowly but he has 2 or 3 cc breaks he can use.
Who doesn't love seeing a pro Rogue 1v1 in classic WoW - keeping the enemy stunned, disoriented, blinded while building up your power and then going in for the kill, that's PEAK. Having said that, this play style is very specific - only viable for 1v1 situations and that's great, a specific build for specific purpose. The bad side of this: if you're the victim and you're just stunned for 20 seconds while getting slowly killed, that's not fun. My suggestion to counter this - have an element of randomness together with an insanely high skill level (example: an action in the whole stun-kill chain might fail). This leaves hope for the victim and additional fight paths to have in mind for the attacker.
About impair/control breaks in general:
If everyone has a break skill, it assimilates different roles - I think that's wrong. It feels cool if a role has something the others don't. Maybe have a role that can break stuns for himself and others? Maybe every role should have it, but it should work in totally different way Examples:
One role has a skill that makes it immune for 5 seconds, but can only activate it during the night or specific minutes of the hour (like 11, 22, 33, 44, 55)?
Another role has a passive ticking breaker, like every 10 seconds you break from control, but also jump up as a side effect?
Third one could have a small circle around him that makes everyone immune for few seconds, but makes him immobile?
Fourth one could be only while using some specific skill, like charge - you can use it to charge in or run in as usual, but save it to escape (charge out of an impair/control).
I agree about the 1v1 rogue situation and yes, that's a specific play style that I will be playing as I do in every mmo. The other way around rogues should have a lack of defense and requires a most skilled player to be able to survive, more escape and movement spells are the right path to follow. As cc break: Cast the skill and get 15 seconds immunity to any kind of normal ccs, Except the hard ccs that need last longer, 3 seconds maximum.
1 skill to rid you of any effect that impairs your movement. (Instantly cast)
Maybe another for different occasions/different kind of ccs
Let's say for example you're building a ranger, you can choose to specialise in CC, which would strengthen your roots/snares, provide longer times on their durations/shorter cool downs on the skills etc, but in doing so you sacrifice the option to upgrade some of your more potent high damage abilities like snipe. This way you reduce situations where players are able to build classes that can easily lock down a target, and then nuke them whilst they're locked down.
Class design should always present the player with some hard choices. Want your warrior to have higher damage reduction? That should come at the cost of dps. Want your cleric to have max healing output? That should come at the cost of some dps or cc abilities. Want your Assassin to be dps machine? That should limit your ability with CC skills/lower their efficacy.
Give players some great options for class design, but also force them to make some hard choices about how they want to build the character/what they are willing to sacrifice to achieve it
How do you feel about CC and CC breaks in MMORPGs?
Everyone should have access to them if your going to have them. From a PvE perspective it can lead to more complicated fights and add a bit of something to them. But, more than not it often feels like a nuisance mechanic. PvP - I'm not a huge PvP guy but I do PvP time to time. Never cared for CC in PvP. Typically playing melee you inevitably get locked and range just does pew pew and it's game over. Never really understood why ranged seems to always have a higher DPS output. When to me melee have the higher skill cap to break thru with staying out of poo, mechanics, gap closing. All in all from a PvP angle just seems like melee always end up w the short end of the stick. If we are in a world of magic there shouldn't be any reason melee can't block arrows or spells.
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
I feel like if your going to do it then everyone needs to get locks and breaks. Personally I think Ashes would be better off without locks or breaks and try to make combat more deliberate.
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
Personally, the game is better without them and I hate having to give up DPS skills for a lock or break.
I think that having CC and CC breaks are fairly important for any PVP but timing of use needs to be important. As for PVE it depends on the flow of combat and how "pulls" happen but I feel some type of CC and CC break is good.
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
I think if this is the case it either needs to be an item that can be purchased/made that has uses and must be recreated/repaired, or if it is a class ability then some classes it should be a base ability while other classes will need to spec into it or have some type of penalty to use it.
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
I think that again some classes should have it as a base skill and others should have to give up something to be able to use them.
On top of this every class should have some form of cc break. Archeage had a universal skill that would go on cooldown after use that would cleanse a cc. Leaving both sides in a pvp fight to plan and choose for the optimal moment for a stun to be set though I think that too many cc abilities for one class would leave that class being difficult in the frustrating kind of way as opposed to the fun kind.
I think cc and cc breaks provide an excellent level of thought to be applied into pvp and I like the idea of choosing cc or damage but I think cc breaks should not be put into that chain. Everyone having at least one cc break leads to a strategy of needing to bait the breaks out before dropping your heavier cc.
In conclusion cc is definitely a good add if done correctly but can create situations where combat becomes very tedious if layered too heavily into skills.
Specific to PVP and group PVE, I like the idea of requiring any significant\AoE CC (silence, stun, immobilize, sleep, etc.) to be channeled by the CCer leaving them immobile and vulnerable while performing the CC and preventing them from doing damage while the CC is affecting the targets. Having a hit quantity or damage threshold to the CCer could break the channeled CC along with counter CCs targeting the original CCer. A timed dodge mechanic could also be implemented to prevent getting caught in the CC.
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
If the above channeling idea was implemented, I would allow all archetypes to have the option to use archetype specific CC and CC break abilities with the duration, cost, power, distance to target, cooldown time, etc. being impacted by the amount of skill points invested.
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
I like the idea of giving the player the flexibility to choose between investing skill points in their archetype specific CC and CC break abilities in order to play a greater support role vs investing those skill points towards damage to be a lethal damage dealer. It should be a give and take with stronger CCers not being able to deal much, if any damage while heavy damage dealers not be able to perform CC and CC break abilities other than to potentially dodge the CC or have the ability to exceed the hit\damage threshold of the CCer to break the channeling CC.
I dont like seeing "pro Rogue 1v1 in classic WoW". TBH i dont like any learned rotations that you can use to win every fight. LIke you may think this is skill, but in reality its just practiced rotation that follows EXACTLY THE SAME spells in the same order every single time.
Like in WOTLK expansion with destro warlock removing ALL my items except the weapon i could win 1v1 vs BIS Arms warrior with Shadowmourne without taking dmg. But it all came down to a 20 second rotation in which i dont give him chance to hit me, and then repeat the same rotation again and again till he die. ( if i remove my weapon also, i wont have enough mana to win even with the life tap)
But the most fun duels were vs classes where the fight was Dynamic and you need to react to the situations since 1 different spell use may result in win or lose. For example with destro warlock fighting DK or Frost Mage. Or even warlock vs warlock was great for 1v1
tho in latest WoW expansions the PVP is the most trash thing ever existing. ( and by latest i mean every expansion after WOTLK)
both are a good way to show playerskill. knowing when to cc and when to break should be rewarded. i really dislike cc resistance, since it takes away playerskill and makes the game more rng. when i land a skill with cc i should be getting it for sure.
if i understand the wiki correctly you are aiming for a low cc and combo cc system, where instant ccs with one skill are rare, but there are options to get a cc. for example staggering a target can lead to tripping it. that creates skillful gameplay! really nice.
i like the direction you are going, it just needs to be finetuned. every class should be able to get a hard cc when hitting multiple skills stagger-trip etc while some should have oneskill hard cc like the tank.
for reference. i count sleep not as a hard cc since it can be broken by dmg taken but its not a soft cc either. need to be careful with that 10sec.
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
if you stick with the current cc system as mentioned above cc breaks for all classes are not needed. that gets further amplified by the direction of using diminishing returns for cc. on that note: its really important to show it visibly on the character when it cant be cced atm.
someone posted the idea of a cc group cleanse for an archetype. that sounds really interesting. if the summoner needs more class identity that could be some. otherwise either cleric or bard, but only one of those three probably.
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
if theres an option to choose a cc break in the universal skilltree everyone needs to take it. so either juts give it to players without skillpoints or dont have it.
every player will choose at least one cc, be it soft or hard, for survivability in pve and pvp aka pvx.
melee classes need to spec more into cc for pvp typically since the need to be ably to stay on top of ranged classes. so they should have an easier time picking them to be viable.
having skills either do a cc or more dmg is a good way for customization but also a blancing act.
I am going to start off my answer with a story of an mmo we have all played, WoW. During the Burning Crusade expansion I joined a pug for a level 68 dungeon (netherwind area, I forget the name now) and as a hunter I was able to cc two enemies at once as well as pull a third for the warrior to tank.
I would place down my frost trap and then use my bear to off tank the second. That was the golden era of WoW. When every class had a responsibility and making a mistake in that responsibility meant a difficult encounter or a wipe. CC made instances interesting and when WoW moved from CC to AOE everything, the dungeons lost all of its charm.
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
I do not think every archetype needs a cc. However it is okay if an archetype is able to perform more than 1 CC at a time.
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
I am in favor of this, CC is just as important as damage. It gives you a significant leg up in an encounter. That decision of CC or damage is an important decision which shapes your character and brings a unique flavor to your mage versus every other mage. Forcing the player to make these decisions is favorable.
CC adds depth that is mandatory in player versus player. Know when to use and when to hold is just as important as the precise timings used.
How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
This depends on the prevalence of CC, but perhaps as a generalization, if there are more usable CCs than classes, every class should have a way to remove, or at least an immunity frame. Balancing this in large scale player versus player probably requires decreasing returns.
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
In general, if you have an option between damage and CC, the damage bonus has to be unreasonable to be competitive in a player versus player environment.
- some classes/specs have lots of them while others don't. This makes the PvP experience extremely frustrating against the classes that have lots of CC because they can CC chain you to death.
- some classes, in particular the Guardian which would be the equivalent of Cleric, have so many buffs to withstand both hard CC and soft CC that it's frustrating to play against it.
This makes the competitive group content to focus on asking the classes that have CC breaks (Clerics) to spec in such a way so that they are more like buff bots in their group such that the whole group can withstand CC attacks from the enemy. This is extremely boring way to play because usually this leads to Clerics having to spec to be as tanky as possible with minimum damage. Which leads to what I called earlier buff bots, because all these players can do is run around with the group to cast buffs on them. Once they're caught off-group they are sitting ducks because they have no damage to retaliate.
So I would recommend to avoid introducing hard CC as much as possible as in my experience it has led to nothing but a toxic game play. Soft CC is fine, like a chill, blind, weakness etc. And every class/spec should have CC breaks in their toolkit to deal with such threats.
To make the combat less frustrating and more fluid even soft CC should be limited so that it is used strategically and, again, avoids the toxic play where one race/spec can chain CC to death. But no hard CC like stun/daze/float/pull/push for the sole reason that at scale the groups of players will abuse it. It is a guarantee that they will!
You won't like it when other players do that to you. So think from the perspective that there's always a bigger shark out there. Not only that but some classes will inevitably be better than others at locking down their targets with CC. This would lead to an imbalance of classes/specs in the game which will make the world population quite boring.
You commented twice expressing against CC. An MMO without CC combos becomes an MMO with extremely flawed combat, ruins the experience of all melee classes and deprives all players that enjoy spec into CC, being a DPS or a Support it's a widely played play style and adds dynamic/variety to the game, When both your opponents need to think about the order of skills, debuffs, stuns and cc breaks this makes the fight fun instead of a fight where it depends on who generates more damage faster.
CC IS NEEDED.
How do you feel about CC and CC breaks in MMORPGs? 67 votes out of 94, love them.
How do you feel about all archetypes in AoC having some form of CC Break? 58 votes out of 94, all of them should have a form of cc break. With second place at 21 votes coming in at only a select few should have a form of cc break.
What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points? 58 out of 94 balances the picks between the 3. Second place coming in at 16 votes for damage over CC and CC breaks.
A couple of members elaborated on the points further in the thread, saying that CC breaks on some of them should be the way, or give that role to the support archetypes, since there will probably be cc reduction when getting chain cc'd, a spell to dispell cc, or a skill that outright reduces CC on your character. Some elaborated on fitting the CC to the class, ie a sleep to the mage, a fear to the warlock, a trip to a warrior etc. Some pointed out CC should be a skillshot instead of a point and click, and that a game without CC will just turn into mostly a gear/stat check.
A: I feel they are an essential tool to elevate MMORPGs combat potential.
Q: How do you feel about all Archetypes in Ashes of Creation having some form of a CC break?
A: I feel that it is a good idea as long as its CC Specific CC breaks and not universl CC Breaks which i believe would only be fitting for Clerics and maybe bards, same goes for CC immunities and chance modifiers.
Q: What are your thoughts about choosing CC or CC breaks versus damage when allocating skill points?
A: My thoughts are that it is important for players to have those to properly evaluate their choices when developing builds, having no trade-offs in this regard could lead to terrible combat design.
Aren't we all sinners?
I love CC abilities in general. I feel like its one of the areas that can turn utility-classes into more than just buff-rats. Its very rewarding to be the jester behind the mask, to be the toon that basically prevented a wipe without actually killing anything, to be the one that makes good toons shine, the one that can dbl the DPSs parse by casting the right stuff at the right tim.
I love CC.
- I dont think a chain-stun until youre dead is good gameplay, so obviously some types of CC should be breakable by all, possibly via itemization.
- But I think the question if ALL classes should have a breaker is too vague, too broad.
I think some classes should have some breaks that work against some types of CC. Like being able to break a root but not a daze.
But just as obvious(imho) The holy trinity should be supported by a similar "rock-paper-scissor" cast n cures, so it makes dbl sense to have the right grp-composition.
Theres a superincreased risk of making all classes feel the same if all classes can do all by themself. its dangerous to only think 1v1. I think its better to balance it around grpsetup, and perhaps have certain skills change mechanic in non-grp encounters like duels, 1v1, 1v2 etc
Could give the ones with a lot of CC equal amount of breakers for self and grp. Or scoutclasses can snap out of roots,mages out of fear, tanks out of knockback or what do i know, It should be balanced. Could have 1 class that masters CC breaks..
But No. all classes should not be able to break all CC. Why have CC in the game if all have a hardcounter?