Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Phase III testing has begun! During this phase, our realms will be open every day, and we'll only have downtime for updates and maintenance. We'll keep everyone up-to-date about downtimes in Discord.
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Phase III testing has begun! During this phase, our realms will be open every day, and we'll only have downtime for updates and maintenance. We'll keep everyone up-to-date about downtimes in Discord.
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Comments
Honestly Virtek's post explains that trying to separate out the two is exactly what shouldn't be happening. More robbust system infastructure should be put in place.
I.e. the caravan system needs a study why it currently isn't functining as it used too. Guild wars being abused in the way they are and what to change so they feel better on both ends as the attacker or defender.
But saying PvP needs seperate reward direct systems seems to have failed in most every game and every attempt in alpha so far.
Which games?
WOW and DAOC have held a player base for a combined total of 40 plus years.. Very different games, both HAVE MULTIPLE rewards in PVP that you can not get In PVE..
It can be done, and has proven to be successful in both. Highly successful games imo
I have been PVPn since you were in diapers..
I am, however, brighter than you - which is a statement I don't make often. However, as you are someone that feels the need to resort to gif's for communication rather than words, I feel it is again, self evident.
Hey NiKr, does this count as proof?
Here is my core argument against that entire notion.
Every single thing that is rewarded to players in PvE in Ashes can also be rewarded to players in PvP.
As such, why is there any need to increase PvP rewards? Why is there any need to have any PvP specific rewards at all?
Have specific pvp rewards has proven to work..
BUT I would be up for other ideas that would encourage the player community to LFG for PVP at 1/10th of the rate they LFG to grind pve for loot and gear..
Many of us, would rather PVP than PVE,, and have be drawn to AOC for that reason.. Not asking to take away from PVE.. But maybe reward loot or toon modification (see DAOC realm abilities)of some type that is specific to PVP and not needed for end game pve. (Just brainstorming)... Up for suggestions..
The idea of PvP in this game is that you fight over "things".
That "thing" may be a resource location, a mob grinding location, a rare spawn mob. a caravan, a node, a castle, the entrance to a dungeon, what ever. The point is, PvP is supposed to happen for a specific reason.
As soon as you are looking for a "PvP group", you have lost sight of the fact that the reason for PvP is supposed to come first, followed by the means to PvP. If Ashes has groups forming just to PvP, then Ashes has lost sight of what it is supposed to be.
Since people in an alpha or beta test don't have the same connections they will have in a live game, since everyone knows there is no long lasting persistency for the game world right now, that nothing you win is going to last past the next server wipe, there is less of a need to fight over things now than there will be (should be) on live. As such, there is clearly going to be less PvP now than there will be on live. The fact that you can't test the amount of PvP a game like Ashes will have in a testing environment is a statement I have been making sincee about 2019.
People that want to PvP for the sake of PvP are as out of place in Ashes as people that want to PvE without risk of PvP. The game is just not built for such people, so either these people need to adapt, or move on. It just is what it is.
Yep, only the PvXers will survive. Though the jury is still out on whether the game will actually be PvX or just another useless, boring, dumb-as-nails PvP mmo...
Have specific pvp rewards has proven to work..
BUT I would be up for other ideas that would encourage the player community to LFG for PVP at 1/10th of the rate they LFG to grind pve for loot and gear..
Many of us, would rather PVP than PVE,, and have be drawn to AOC for that reason.. Not asking to take away from PVE.. But maybe reward loot or toon modification (see DAOC realm abilities)of some type that is specific to PVP and not needed for end game pve. (Just brainstorming)... Up for suggestions..
"People that want to PvP for the sake of PvP are as out of place in Ashes"... I strongly disagree....
"as people that want to PvE without risk of PvP." People already PVE with next to zero risk(percent of people that have been killed during by PVP during PVE in phase 2.0, 2.5 and 3 is less than 1% I am guessing,(I am 100% positive pretty dam close) So your are talking out your ass again, just to Troll....."Without risk" 1% would be without risk by most gaming standards....
But really good suggestion on how to balance PVP and PVE ........ Great Ideas!,,, Troll less
All these pussies that claim to be so strong and great pvpers are scared shitless to PK some dudes. They're scared to attack pvers and hold them at low hp. They're afraid to flag up themselves, perpetuating the issue. But they sure are not afraid to keep whining about not having enough lawless zones or low rewards in them.
PvErs literally just farm mobs. But the world allows everyone else to try and stop them. So it's not on the pvers that they're not getting stopped.
Unless it has changed, you only lose the gear that's directly equipped on you. Equip shittier gear and go attack all the pvers you want w/o a shred of risk. And if they fight back - THERE'S YOUR PVP. And not just pvp, but a good fight, cause you're supposedly a strong skillful pvper fighting a lowly weak pver who doesn't know how to fight (btw, a ton of pvp videos prove this).
"PvPers" will fucking do ANYTHING but actually try and pvp.
I've said several times, my PC can barely run it right now, because Intrepid fucked up optimization for lower specs, even though P1 was playable.
That is not what this game is about.
No one said, "Just any",, Generally if people are LFG for PVE or PVP in a game it is for some common goal.. Sorry you misunderstood, but I got your back... Thought it was common knowledge...
IN MY EYES if Ashes has more people LFGn for PVP than PVE they hit their mark.. And this is what end game is all about. Groups, Guilds , Towns Folks, and Random players challenging one another for the fruits of the world. In addition improving their game play..
Games focus testing atm clearly is PVE , but built greatly (not all of it) for PVP.. If you think, a game with Open world PVP, Is not going to have groups running around PVPn you are sadly mistaken.. Late game. If you think people are not going to be LFGn for these groups in Global OR with in their Alliance.. You would be wrong again..
Once they Balance PVP rewards on the same level of pve rewards, or close and bring the PVP components fully online, and adjusted..It is game on..
It is only a matter of time.. In that regards..
Glad you could provide some excellent suggestions on how to Balance PVP and PVE rewards in this "balance PVP and PVE for PVX" thread
"Once Again" you spent little time Trolling... A large majority of your post have been on topic and very enlightening..
I think I like your suggestion of having PVP rewards be related to improving one's toon in PVP.. Like additional resistance and abilities that are PVP focused are great
examples you provided..
GREAT Idea, as long as those things are not needed for end game PVE.. So those that do not want to PVP all the time do not need to.
"Once Again" Thanks again for not Trolling the hell out of the forums and junking it up with a whole bunch of bull.. , You have been really helpful to the gaming community Noaai.
Keep being positive!!See ya on the Battlefield...
1. Skirmishes at grinding spots. Often 1vs1 or group vs. group, in crowds of mobs. The goal is to knock everyone out of the location. The reward is no one interfering with your grinding. They can often counterattack after 5-10 minutes, depending on how far the location is from the spawn. The problem is that victory always goes to the stronger players, but it's often more profitable to leave 1-2 alts to prevent others from grinding and go to a quieter spot. And in the case of large groups, it's often more profitable to split into solo or mini-groups.
2. Sieges of Castles, Forts, and Terwars (once every two weeks, Forts more often). Clan vs. clans or even alliances vs. alliances (tens to hundreds of characters in each zone). The goal is to hold the point by the end of the event. Time is limited and it's a separate PvP zone. Rewards include tax control, unique NPCs, powerful temporary passives, etc. Problems: Castle Sieges have never been economically beneficial. They're mostly about political prestige. Fort sieges have become a PvE affair (guards spawn with valuable loot during the siege). Terwars: Many players used alts and farmed them, earning a unique currency (a way to obtain one piece of equipment).
3. Clan Wars: Clan vs. Clan (~120 vs. 120). The goal is fun, clan training. Reward: clan points (useless in the endgame). Problems: The entire server was only able to gather a couple of times a week for a couple of hours, by agreement between both parties.
4. GvG: Group vs. Group (9 vs. 9). The goal is fun, group training. The reward is negative, consumables are wasted. The problem is that only a few groups were actually doing this. The rest couldn't (motivation, equipment, coordination, economics, etc.).
5. Olympiad. 1vs1, instanced arena. The goal is to win and score the most points within your class. The reward is the Hero title, temporary access to unique skills and weapons, and exclusive access to global chat. Problems: the point system was mercilessly abused, there was never a real definition of the best in your class, and global chat was used for trading and swearing.
6. Epic bosses (every few days). Mostly alliance vs. alliance. The goal is to inflict maximum damage on the boss. PvP zone, a separate location that turns into a closed instance (those who can and manage to enter within 30 minutes fight to victory). The reward is the most expensive items in the game. There weren't any major issues, only lag (up to 1000 characters in total).
7. PK. A whole other story. Often, it's like a tool—an alt with cheap gear that tries to hinder grinding. Often, it's the one who hinders low-level players. Or the one who toxically provokes the emotions of crybabies. I never understood this.
Personally, I was interested in (4), a little in (2), and (6). In the case of (4), there's no point in abusing it; it's just a fair fight between the strongest groups on the server, and you can feel the impact of each teammate. In (2) and (6), it's sometimes fun to move with the whole clan every few days, but the vulnerability of such content to zerg was depressing. And if I found time to play solo, I preferred to test, theorycraft, craft, trade or farm instances.
In conclusion (imho): the best PvP content is zero-benefit, close to tournament rules. The option with valuable PvE rewards works well, but special conditions are needed. PvP rewards—abuse will outweigh any original game design; it's futile. PK is a disease.
Oh, and for the record, no more than 10% of the server's players consistently participated in active PvP. If you filter out those who were terrible at pressing buttons and just showed up for company, you'd be lucky if you were left with 3-5%.
@Ludullu can probably go into more detail about what I missed (I haven't played for a while).
@Azherae can use this as data (your posts with conclusions are always a pleasure to read).