Dungeon finder, Raid finder and Group finder

as the title suggests the discussion is about the different kinds of (finders) we find in games, will AoC have them if yes will they be on all kind of content (raids, dungeons,...etc), what all of you think about it, do you want the game to have this kind of accessibility or not? and in which kind of content do you want them?
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Comments

  • BraneGamesBraneGames Member, Braver of Worlds
    I dislike them. Takes out the social aspect of forming a group
  • Group finder is a good thing to be honest. It is usefull to avoid useless chat spamming like "L2M SoB 1 Tank, 1 Bard! Bring time and food!"
    But things like dungeon finder and raid finder, should really not be implemented, it takes out most of the social interactions in the group. A good example would be wow; no one explaines anything, new people are so afraid to ask that i have to tell them to whisper me so i can then explaine it to them. You could also just spam the dungon queue to fast track to higher levels... (Honestly, i once leveled my paladin tank from lvl 15 to 110 without doing any zones...)
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  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Member, Founder
    I'm fine with a tool that helps players advertise and join groups. I am definitely NOT fine with an automated group finder where you just press a button and get automatically get put into a group with random people.
  • malgusmalgus Member
    BraneGames wrote: »
    I dislike them. Takes out the social aspect of forming a group

    What she said and AOC have confirmed they won't be in the game cause of this reason. But further to the point it takes the exploration aspect out of the game. Lastly group finders is the reason why the community aspect of mmo's are dead cause nobody talks they run and kill everything the end these are my thoughts
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  • malgusmalgus Member
    Damokles wrote: »
    Group finder is a good thing to be honest. It is usefull to avoid useless chat spamming like "L2M SoB 1 Tank, 1 Bard! Bring time and food!"
    But things like dungeon finder and raid finder, should really not be implemented, it takes out most of the social interactions in the group. A good example would be wow; no one explaines anything, new people are so afraid to ask that i have to tell them to whisper me so i can then explaine it to them. You could also just spam the dungon queue to fast track to higher levels... (Honestly, i once leveled my paladin tank from lvl 15 to 110 without doing any zones...)


    100% fine with that

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  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds
    They said there will be no group finders.
    They want to bring back the social aspect of MMO.
    Like Damokles I leveled a priest in wow as a healer once I could hit the que I was in a dungeon or back in the que never left Orgrimar.
    No group finders is the way to go. Look at game that have LFG and cross server groups. Nobody talks unless it is trolling. No sense of community and no backlash for poor behavior.
    Build a bad reputation with lfg who cares never see them again. With out it will be really hard to find a group if you act the fool.
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
  • ArzosahArzosah Member, Leader of Men
    automated group finder systems ruin MMOs
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  • PokoPoko Member
    Hmmm... I haven't played an MMORPG before

    My only experience is trying out BDO right now.

    BUT BUT BUT! I think not having a raid finder is good, it makes it WAY to easy to just que for once and makes it feel a LOT less special. I mean I haven't played to feel, but from the outside it seems like so much less work and time to just jump into a que instead of getting a group together and travelling out to a location to raid. It makes it a lot more special, even just the journey there. Although it'll obviously get boring but I think only certain things should have ques. Maybe low tier dungeons or something? Maybe not even that I dunno.
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  • VarkunVarkun Member, Braver of Worlds
    I was under the impression that the main way to LFG in AOC was to visit an inn and find others who were also LFG then go do the content you required the group for. Perhaps you could post a message on a message board at the inn go do your thing then get notified when someone shows interest in grouping.

    LFG/LFR tools have killed much of the social aspect of MMO's and am pretty sure Steven wants to see that return to his game this is going to come as a real shock to some. Be social join a guild enjoy that group content with people you get along with, my best memories of the past 20 years of MMO play are all group content with guildmates shooting the sh!t and having a laugh. Do you know where some of my worst MMO memories come from? meeting some true idiots through LFG tools thus why I no longer use them.
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  • unknownsystemerrorunknownsystemerror Member, Leader of Men
    A server or large area lfg will not happen. They have put the restrictions on fast travel, fog of war, and many other linked systems/mechanics in place to keep the feel of the world large and to stop the mindless roboqueue of rinse/repeat. There will be content that people on one side of the map never find out about except through wiki and forum posts. By the time they travel over there through possible hostile territory the node may have leveled up or down and that content may have shifted or changed. If you think like other mmos in the past that the content is going to be predictable and linear, my bet is you are in for a shock.
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  • DamoklesDamokles Member
    edited April 28
    It would be cool if they had a Zoi based group finder. You go into a tavern, interact with a board or talk to the barkeep, and then a window opens, where people who search for a group (or the other way around ;) ) are then listed and the node inside of the zoi, where they are from. Could be only possible in bigger nodes or it could even be the special power of the militaristic node ^^
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  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men
    Arzosah wrote: »
    automated group finder systems ruin MMOs

    agreed
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    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • Nagash wrote: »
    Arzosah wrote: »
    automated group finder systems ruin MMOs

    agreed

    Yup. Whole point of an MMO is finding other people to play it with.
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  • valerianvalerian Member
    edited April 28
    There's going to be dungeon content that will eventually be easy to handle especially if you handled it with a group numerous times already. Hopefully old content will have some kind of a replay-ability or else I see no point in doing them. But if there are, some times you want to grind say a crafting material that only exists in that dungeon and yet you really don't need the most elite players to run the dungeon for you a LFG tool might be useful so not to waste too much time.

    Otherwise, you really want to find players yourself that know how to handle a particularly difficult dungeon or new content. Because people tend to get lazy and don't want to talk and they don't like it when they get Judged by others. I mean what throws people off are questions like what's your DPS? What's your gear level? Do you know the boss fights? OR, I'm only running for 1 loot drop and im out! Or were in it for an achievement and on and on and on.

    These are not like socializing questions anyways, there are elitist questions where you have to belong in a certain mind set. Now the way I would approach a situation say if I was a guild master I would set up dates to run dungeons or raids and take as many people as possible just to have a feel of what to expect until I see the performance of others. And if there are recommendations for a particular player I would tell them what to improve but I will not outright kick them from my group. But I would take note on who participated and who didn't so that I can give a chance to everyone to experience new content. IT should be a learning experience but also not to be wiping for the 50th time and nothing is getting through.

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  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds
    edited April 28
    Since dungeons are dynamic rather than static and the bosses change after they are defeated, we shouldn't be able to easily handle with the same group because we've defeated that threat numerous times already.
    Rather, we should be able to handle new threats more easily because we are familiar with how the other players we typically adventure with like to play their class/character.
    Replayability of old content is not intended to be common in Ashes.

    People get lazy and don't speak specifically due to replaying old, static content.
    No reason to talk if you already know the content.

    Also, since dungeons and raids are primarily open world, there should not be a lot scheduled raids which allow for improved performance based on cookie-cutter rotations for a raid group.

    Which should meant that people will need to talk in order to devise new strategies for the new content - rather than attacking by rote.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds
    I don't think group finders will be necessary for Ashes.
    People will be living in villages, towns,cities and metros that they will want to defend. Rather than moving on to a new location as they level.
    We will know where their homes are because they can be open world rather than instanced - so finding our friends will be closer to finding NPCs in traditional MMORPGs.
    Threats are dynamic rather than static - and will frequently be a threat to the region; not just a static threat waiting around forever for a new group to arrive. And, it will be fairly common for the monsters to come attack our homes.

    So, it won't just be an individual hoping to find other people who are in the mood to farm a static dungeon or raid. Rather, it will be a bunch of people who need to end a threat to the region, or defend the node from attack.
    We will know the other players in our node who play at the same times we do. We will know where they live and/or like to hang out. We will know what activities they enjoy and how they like to play.
    Finding the same people who like to do what we do when we want to do should be much easier in Ashes than in previous MMORPGs.
  • cyanideinsanitycyanideinsanity Member, Settler
    edited April 28
    Dygz wrote: »
    I don't think group finders will be necessary for Ashes.
    People will be living in villages, towns,cities and metros that they will want to defend. Rather than moving on to a new location as they level..

    Doesn't each node level increase the difficulty of the area? A village is fine until you're trying to hit max level on lv 10 boars, if so. Also while the world may be big, but I don't think each node will have enough content to keep players that engaged to not go elsewhere. ZOIs however I feel would be more accommodating. Rather then being secluded to their home node, I'd imaging more players would be keeping to their shared piece of the world.
  • wildpancakes875wildpancakes875 Member, Pioneer
    edited April 28
    Transmog, Flying, dungeon finders these are all things that sound good on paper. But have ripple effects that may not be good for the overall health of the game.
  • Transmog, Flying, dungeon finders these are all things that sound good on paper. But have ripple effects that may not be good for the overall health of the game.

    Well we will have transmogs! :D
    They designed the ingame economy so that things like repairs, transmogs, etc will be money sinks in the game, to control the eventual inflation of ingame currency.
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  • grisugrisu Member
    Groupfinder interfaces are just fine. Instead of spamming a channel 20 times you just do one message people can browse through in a dedicated window.

    What's not fine is cross server instancing and some game design decisions.

    That random people don't talk with each other has nothing to do with being instantly teleported to a dungeon, that's ridiculous it's just a travel time saver, cause there is always that one person sitting on his ass forever while the other 5 are waiting and waiting and waiting.
    The actual problem is just the way the game is set up itself. Quickly in, quickly out and you have deadlybossmods, just listen to that. Yes wow example.
    Most leveling experiences in currently running mmos are trivial, even tho it's "for your level" it's so trivial that you rofelcopter through it with your +20 gear anyway. Stoping to explain anything would take more time then to do this meaningless expboost with just 4 people.
    On top of that cross server played it's part awfully well in this too. You will never see those people ever again, you will never build even the remotest form of community with them, ever. Why bother explaining something that is irrelevant in two levels?


    @cyanideinsanity No it doesn't increase it per say, it will change and shuffle the diffculty around. Big difference. Easy example, untouched forest might house bears, wolfs and regular wildlife. What happens when you build a city there and replace the woods with farms? wolfs and bears will retreat farther off while rabbits and other things might stay in those fields now. Doesn't cover all that happens, but there have been extensive posts, streams, videos about it.
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  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds
    Dygz wrote: »
    I don't think group finders will be necessary for Ashes.
    People will be living in villages, towns,cities and metros that they will want to defend. Rather than moving on to a new location as they level..

    Doesn't each node level increase the difficulty of the area? A village is fine until you're trying to hit max level on lv 10 boars, if so. Also while the world may be big, but I don't think each node will have enough content to keep players that engaged to not go elsewhere. ZOIs however I feel would be more accommodating. Rather then being secluded to their home node, I'd imaging more players would be keeping to their shared piece of the world.
    Basically, the nodes level with you. And the mob tables change as the nodes progress.
    I don't think I said anything about being secluded to one are or never traveling elsewhere.
    The difference is that people will be returning to their homes, rather than constantly dispersing to make new locations their home.
    And we will have similar goals as the rest of the citizens of our nodes and regions in terms of defense and node progression. Also, we will have similar goals when it comes to social and religious progression - since we will be getting quests and tasks and services from the buildings we build in our home nodes.

    In the early days of the server, the villages will progress to the town stage and then to the city stage.
    The mob tables will progress accordingly, so, while we're trying to reach max level, we won't have to leave our home node when the village becomes a town because there will now be level 20 mobs for us to hunt.
    We won't be stuck just hunting level 10 mobs.

    For those who start playing months later - after villages and towns are mostly locked by well-established cities and metros - newbies might travel from their village to an adjacent town when they're ready to hunt more challenging content, but they will still be returning to their homes and freeholds in the village afterwards - for quite some time. And they will know where to find the homes and freeholds of other citizens in the village and where to find the homes and freeholds of other citizens in the towns and cities.
    At some point, an individual might want to move their home from a village to a town or a city - but their friends will be told where the new home is. And that individual will, again, be staying in that home for quite a while.

    There will be quests and tasks from the node, and social organizations within the node that send players to exotic locales, but those probably won't solo-only quests and tasks. Even the solo quests will likely send the individual on the same path as caravans.
    So finding people to adventure with shouldn't be as much of a challenge in Ashes as finding someone who wants to replay the same dungeon or raid when you do.
  • Of what i recall hearing, there won't be a groupfinder. I think it is a bad idea. I recall in wow, how it was, trying to get a group for a dungeon or group mission. Often you would just outlevel the quest/place, by the time you got a group for it
  • This has already been talked to death, NO to all three from Intrepids side.
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  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds
    Talked to death on Discord... lmao
  • ferrymanferryman Member
    edited April 29
    Some kind of group finder tool or at least group finder chat section (both local) could be nice QoL things. I am not a fan either of automated group finders with instant teleports to dungeon.
    Do you need a ride to the Underworld?
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men
    it seems like the consensus is that people don't want raid finders
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    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • ArzosahArzosah Member, Leader of Men
    Nagash wrote: »
    it seems like the consensus is that people don't want raid finders

    and for good reason.
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  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men
    Arzosah wrote: »
    Nagash wrote: »
    it seems like the consensus is that people don't want raid finders

    and for good reason.

    Indeed
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    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • VirtekVirtek Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty
    I believe Steven said they were debating a physical "Looking for group" bulletin board that you can visit within nodes of a certain stage.
    I'm all for that. Post in it that you're looking for a group and then do your shopping at merchant stands nearby.

    Keep a lookout for people asking for groups in public chat while they are near that board also shopping and BAM! Group finder with a more social aspect.

    You know a physical location to frequent where people are always visiting to find a group.
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  • aird88aird88 Member, Braver of Worlds
    I don't even like the world or ZOI chat to be a part of the game. I would rather love to see messengers like ravens or owls that people can send messages from when they want to relay information to another city. I am however okay with maybe talk within the node that you are in which will help you organize a group more efficiently. For social reasons, I think guild, group, alliance, and raid chat should be allowed throughout the world though. The main reason I wouldn't want to include world or ZOI chat is that it will break the discovery side of things. You will have people spamming the chat with, "if you want mithril ore then travel northeast to so and so".
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