PvP Community and GameBalance.

dygz wrote: »

earthern wrote: »

I think this will be the different/new type of RPG that wont solely depend on characters ability but also incorporate player skill. I remember them speaking about having a headshot mechanic. A headshot cant be RNG or luck but skill.

It's not a different type of RNG. RNG is not all-encompassing.
That quote you posted basically says the same thing I did.
There will be RNG. The action combat mechanics reward player twitch skills.
That's not the same thing as getting rid of RNG as much as possible.

And, yes, RNG will pertain to character stats - which will still play a role in headshots.
Not so much in whether there is a hit (though character Dex may still be a factor to some degree), but in determining the damage. Especially if Evasion is a stat and players are invested in maxing that Evasion stat.
Because the Evasion stat will likely also be calculated into the damage results.

What I got from that was they are trying to mitigate some of the RNG so skill can be more prevalent. So they want RNG to be less of a factor and more about a players skill.

And no a headshot has nothing to do with character stats, did you play APOC? A headshot is a player aiming at someone's head and hitting it vs the body or legs. Only time the RNG evasion/dodge might happen if that ability is like tab target which a players skill cant dodge a aim bot type of ability.

Headshots cannot replace rng crits. There are many situations where the ease of hitting headshots is greatly increased but rng crit chance won't be. Additionally, increasing one's crit chance stat requires sacrificing an increase in another stat while headshots do not.

@seaber There will be a action based skilled let's say "power shot" that is mechanically aimed and if you hit the head it will count as a headshot/crit. So that aspect will depend on your aim/skill.

Then there is also RNG crit chance which is based on a percentage and is RNG/random.

A headshot is a crit shot but there will be skills that allows it to be player controlled vs skills that are RNG based on your crit chance.

earthern wrote: »

What I got from that was they are trying to mitigate some of the RNG so skill can be more prevalent. So they want RNG to be less of a factor and more about a players skill.

Trying to mitigate some of the RNG is not the same thing as trying to get rid of as much RNG as possible.
They want player twitch skills to be more of a factor than it is in MMORPGs that only have tab-target.
So, yes, because Ashes includes action combat, RNG will be less of a factor than it is in MMORPGs that only have tab-target. That much is true.

And no a headshot has nothing to do with character stats, did you play APOC? A headshot is a player aiming at someone's head and hitting it vs the body or legs. Only time the RNG evasion/dodge might happen if that ability is like tab target which a players skill cant dodge a aim bot type of ability.

Headshot is a crit. As far as I know, the damage from that crit is not a fixed number.
I don't think we were able to maximize our Evasion stat in APOC the way we should be able to in the MMORPG. That's a key difference between a BR and an MMORPG.

dygz wrote: »

Trying to mitigate some of the RNG is not the same thing as trying to get rid of as much RNG as possible.
They want player twitch skills to be more of a factor than it is in MMORPGs that only have tab-target.
So, yes, because Ashes includes action combat, RNG will be less of a factor than it is in MMORPGs that only have tab-target. That much is true.

The presence of 'action combat' does not mean that rng is less of a factor. It is extremely easy to think of an 'action combat' system where rng is a huge factor and a 'tab target' system where it is not at all a factor.

dygz wrote: »

Headshot is a crit..

seaber wrote: »

It is extremely easy to think of an 'action combat' system where rng is a huge factor and a 'tab target' system where it is not at all a factor.

I don't disagree with that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_hit#Headshot
In first person shooter games such as Counter-Strike: Global Offensive, Tactical Ops, and Unreal Tournament, the concept of a critical hit is often substituted by the headshot, where a player attempts to place a shot on an opposed player or non-player character's head area or other weak-spot, which is generally fatal, or otherwise devastating, when successfully placed.

https://www.theaocdungeon.com/threads/headshots-in-ashes.270/
Steven mentioned in a live stream that the headshot mechanic is something they are working on, and will not be going live in the way it is right now. It was more of a function used in the battle royal mode to help with skill shots since that's the style of the game. They are in debate right now whether or not they want to have "crit zone" mechanics in the game.

"The idea behind headshot in the MMORPG is that, if we do implement headshots - part of this testing is to determine if we will - but if we were to implement headshots it will be along the lines of a higher critical chance. So basically hitting a skillshot on the head will increase significantly the opportunity for that damage to be critical. Will they one-shot? Absolutely not."
-- Steven Sharif

https://youtu.be/DABir_vvMfY?t=2117
"So if you take a look at like kind of what a head shot represents: A head shot is basically a critical hit; and players who are relying on tab skills will have that critical hit chance baked into their character. They will have that fixed chance every time they use an ability or use a spell or swing a weapon; and then somebody who is kind of preferring you know action based, in order to get that crit, they're not gonna be relying necessarily on their stats they're gonna be relying on whether they get a headshot or not, or are able to hit that critical spot on that character. So that's kind of the direction that we're going in that way. Again, it's gonna be hybridized so there's gonna be a little bit of both happening in both places."
-- Jeffrey Bard

CrazySquiggle

As much as I want to disagree with @dygz here @seaber I cannot. Dygz has this one right stating that headshot is a crit, but will probably be set as a different type of crit so our crit chance and crit damage stats can stack with it. That would lead to some heavy reliance on the action combat side of things, but would irritate some people that want to lean more on tab target. It will be interesting to see the system they come out with is all I can say at this point.

whitedude31 wrote: »

As much as I want to disagree with @dygz here @seaber I cannot. Dygz has this one right stating that headshot is a crit, but will probably be set as a different type of crit so our crit chance and crit damage stats can stack with it. That would lead to some heavy reliance on the action combat side of things, but would irritate some people that want to lean more on tab target. It will be interesting to see the system they come out with is all I can say at this point.

I believe there will be a either or type of thing. Like if a player chose action combat skill it will be more in the players hands to hit the headshot/crit hit. In a tab target combat system it will be based more on your crit chance to get a crit/headshot.

I would think that would kind of suck if let says hard cap of crit chance is 60% and someone like me that is pretty good at aiming could hit the other 40% to make that 100% crit/headshot all of the time.

I could see it working though. The person who chooses the action based skill lands those hits they are rewarded for the higher risk meaning more crits because they are actually aiming for it vs tab target because it is basically auto aim/aim bot. It would suck for tab target people tho becuase they might have to rely heavly on that RNG of crit chance unless devs find a happy medium with balancing it.

so in end you are probably much correct @whitedude31

To hit is more directly in the hands of the player with action combat than it is for tab target, sure.
The chance for a crit and damage from the crit is not absolutely determined without RNG, though.

"The idea behind headshot in the MMORPG is that, if we do implement headshots - part of this testing is to determine if we will - but if we were to implement headshots it will be along the lines of a higher critical chance. So basically hitting a skillshot on the head will increase significantly the opportunity for that damage to be critical. Will they one-shot? Absolutely not."
-- Steven Sharif

@dygz yea but lets says if I aim at head which is a critical spot and hit head isnt that a headshot without RNG? For tab target they have crit chance which is RNG?

S.N: your name seems very familiar, New World? @dygz

You will have hit the head without RNG. But, the crit chance is still going to be RNG.
The chance to crit will be very high because it's a critical spot, but there will still be some RNG.
I also expect there may be some damage RNG affected by the Evasion stat of the target.

My Evasion stat build should not be completely negated just because you chose to attack me with an action ability. You should still be able to do a considerable amount of damage, though.

georgeblack

I dislike RNG since we got action combat systems. It was a chance to go beyond evasion and critical rate systems and explore something new.

In that case I feel like it will be pointless to take the risk and chose an action skilled shot because let's say you miss the shot completely, your not doing any damage and also target is now aware. With tab target you are automatically locked on to target and if you have high crit you will be doing damage whether you crit or not.

Risk v reward.
You choose an action combat attack to risk missing - on the hope for a hit that will have the reward of a significantly higher crit chance.

Yea but for it still to be based around RNG of a crit chance, I dont think that would beat a steady DPS of tab target. That would make action combat even more RNG and unknown unless they state action skill headshot is guaranteed 75% crit chance and you can also have up to 10% character stat crit chance making it 85% crit chance.

I think the crit chance from a headshot will be significantly high enough that it would beat a steady DPS from tab target... if your player twitch skills for aim are above average.
You've been saying that the devs are trying to eliminate as much RNG as possible and make it more about player skill. When actually the devs are striving for a hybrid of both action and tab target.
The devs aren't intending to reward action abilities more than they reward tab target abilities, but they also aren't trying to reward RNG over player skill.
Hits and Crits from action abilities will be competitive with RNG abilities and stats, just not intrinsically better.

dygz wrote: »

Risk v reward.
You choose an action combat attack to risk missing - on the hope for a hit that will have the reward of a significantly higher crit chance.

Having headshots grant increased crit chance will wreak havoc on the balancing between crit based and non crit based builds and between targeted and skillshot skills.

A far better way to include headshots is for them to just be a % multiplier to damage. But there are still many problems this would create.

Well, seems like the game devs disagree with you.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯