I am a PoC and I don't want to see any real world culture issues in the game and politicize. I want to get away from the real world and hence why I play MMO to escape.
In my ideal game we won't have white, black, brown etc people in the game, instead we will have blue, purple and neon people!
You would be right op if there werent a few things:
1. One of two actual human races is of arabian and north african design
2. Orcs werent designed after american indigenous populations
3. One dwarf race was designed after one of THE MOST OVERLOOKED ETHINICITIES EVER (Polynesian)
"Aelean architecture has a French medieval influence.
Dünir have a Nordic cultural influence.
Empyreans have a Greco-Roman imperialistic feeling.
The Niküa have a Polynesian influence.
The Py'Rai have a Navajo Native American influence.[63] Py'Rai architecture has a woodland inspiration.
Pyrian architecture has a Greco-Roman influence.
The Vek have a Mesoamerican racial influence."
Edit: I am of turkish and german decent, i grew up between both worlds and lived through racism my whole life. I dont care for what it symbolises in a game. Games are there to leave the real world behind, see impossible things and have fun.
You would be right op if:
1. One of two actual human races is of arabian and north african design
2. Orcs werent designed after american indigenous populations
3. One dwarf race was designed after one of THE MOST OVERLOOKED ETHINICITIES EVER (Polynesian)
"Aelean architecture has a French medieval influence.
Dünir have a Nordic cultural influence.
Empyreans have a Greco-Roman imperialistic feeling.
The Niküa have a Polynesian influence.
The Py'Rai have a Navajo Native American influence.[63] Py'Rai architecture has a woodland inspiration.
Pyrian architecture has a Greco-Roman influence.
The Vek have a Mesoamerican racial influence."
Edit: I am of turkish and german decent, i grew up between both worlds and lived through racism my whole life. I dont care for what it symbolises in a game. Games are there to leave the real world behind, see impossible things and have fun.
You are right but I hope they didn't base races on any real world cultures to being with. Maybe its hard to come up with truly unique races and cultures but I wish they did that instead of basing it real world stuff.
You are right but I hope they didn't base races on any real world cultures to being with. Maybe its hard to come up with truly unique races and cultures but I wish they did that instead of basing it real world stuff.
You will find that 99% of Ashes is based on something else.
You would be right op if:
1. One of two actual human races is of arabian and north african design
2. Orcs werent designed after american indigenous populations
3. One dwarf race was designed after one of THE MOST OVERLOOKED ETHINICITIES EVER (Polynesian)
"Aelean architecture has a French medieval influence.
Dünir have a Nordic cultural influence.
Empyreans have a Greco-Roman imperialistic feeling.
The Niküa have a Polynesian influence.
The Py'Rai have a Navajo Native American influence.[63] Py'Rai architecture has a woodland inspiration.
Pyrian architecture has a Greco-Roman influence.
The Vek have a Mesoamerican racial influence."
Edit: I am of turkish and german decent, i grew up between both worlds and lived through racism my whole life. I dont care for what it symbolises in a game. Games are there to leave the real world behind, see impossible things and have fun.
You are right but I hope they didn't base races on any real world cultures to being with. Maybe its hard to come up with truly unique races and cultures but I wish they did that instead of basing it real world stuff.
They were influenced by existing cultures on earth regarding aesthetics.
Screw the safe space.
What about my bi-sexual character? I need my flag as an option on my tabard! Or rather, how about you allow me to split my character in 3 colors, pink, purple, and blue?
I also want male npc's to blush whenever I walk past them.
Let's get this out of the way. I'm black. I was born black, raised black, and I feel I will be black for quite some time.
Let's be honest, I loved that joke xD
Aside from that, I can't feel you cuz I'm white, but yeah, I agree with you. Would be good to have options like GW2 PoF and the thing you said about the dwarves made me think, I don't have enough info about that, I used to think about dwarves in a LotR way.
So yeah, I think, as it is a whole new universe, maybe the stuff about dwarves etc could be overlooked, but at least there should be an option for everyone to be in the game.
Let's get this out of the way. I'm black. I was born black, raised black, and I feel I will be black for quite some time. I love gaming and exploring new worlds and new stories in those games.
I have played only a handful of MMOs (BDO, ESO, GW1, GW2, Archeage, LOTRO) and only 1 has included a specific black ethnicity (ESO with Redguards) and 1 has a general human race with multiple ethnicities that you could create but can actually fit into a specific culture (GW2 with Elonans and Canthans).
I'm sorry mate, I stopped right here.
Guild Wars 1, added black ethnicity with Elonians with Nightfall expansion. Before that, you could perfectly make tanned/black characters. The elonians were mostly additional skintones and faces. Same for GW2.
BDO, it's a korean game. Still, you can edit the face enough and have a character black. Especially with this extensive character creator.
Didn't play the rest.
Let's be honest here, you can't always apply human ethnicities to a fantasy world. So you are bound to not find ethnicities, skin color, face styles in a game. While it's fine, I do understand you however, I'm far from this political hysteria going on atm, but I'm always a bit disappointed with character creator in general because I can't make a good looking black/tanned female character.
From my understanding of AoC, Py'rai elves will be able to have "brown"/black skintones (mega happy with that one, black elves as in chocolate elves are extremely hard to find in a vanilla game) and if I'm not mistaken you have a human race that is similar to elonians.
Edit : LockedOut said it all, couldn't have said better myself.
White chick here. I totally get the OP. If the only representation I ever got in videogames was pediphiliac, oversexualized asian girls -- I wouldn't want to play them either. Making my character not look like that while still being surrounded by stereotypes wouldn't feel inclusive no matter what sliders there were.
Representations of north african and middle eastern races isn't uncommon. But subsa-haran African cultures are almost entirely ignored, perhaps because there are so many of them. Their folklore is as wildly creative as anywhere else. (For those who seem to think they have no fantasy.)
But it is a fine line for western developers to walk between representation and cultural appropriation.
This topic can apply to many other things, such as sexuality, disability, and so on.
I would just say to create your ideal avatar, create a backstory, and jump in. Whether it's animalistic, white, black, brown, purple, or whatever. AOC is giving you the tools in the creator and the vast cultures of the world to make your own path.
It is rough trying to represent everyone and every culture but again at some point the player has to help themselves.
By applying real-world constructs, you're restricting yourself from the start and opening yourself up to being offended or feeling misrepresented.
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NagashMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
*sigh* Just make everyone grey skeletons and be done with it
The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
*sigh* Just make everyone grey skeletons and be done with it
Hmm... a proposition worthy of discussion.
But grey color symbolizes neutrality. I don't feel neutral. So I'd suggest we make them 3-colored. Pink, Purple, Blue. As those 3 colors symbolizes both male/female, and everything between.
Can I also say... I really like your signature. But the skeleton color is bad.
I duno, about this topic, all this about inclusion and stuff in a fantasy game where I just run off to be a Zen orc or a hippy elf, like.. why does it have to be broken down to >that's the culture that inspired it<.
I can be a life fulfilling dream. - Zekece
I can be a life devouring nightmare. - Grisu#1819
5
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NagashMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I duno, about this topic, all this about inclusion and stuff in a fantasy game where I just run off to be a Zen orc or a hippy elf, like.. why does it have to be broken down to >that's the culture that inspired it<.
because people always want something to complain about
The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
I feel you boss. There are a few people on here that say, "I dont care", but it is nice to have more than a skin color slider. Actual Black, Latin, or Asian features are few and far between. That is no beuno in 2020. I hope the Ashes team is on top of this. I personally dont care so much about cultural representation in these games, but it might be nice to have a race that is reminiscent of Zulus or Mongols, or whatever.
The goal is to have a character creator equivalent to BDO. I'm guessing you won't have any issues making your character the way you want. Personally, I don't really know if it's me, but posts like this kinda rub me the wrong way. When I watch a movie like Black Panther where the cast is mostly black, zero white main cast, and one of the few white people is a sub villain. I don't think well where's my representation? Art usually reflects the artist, whether that's games, movies, novels. Most Fantasy is based off of Tolkien, so it makes sense that a lot of the races tend to be white.
But, who cares? I was raised, and still believe today that as M.L.K. Jr. said, "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character." When I watch the Black Panther, I don't think where's my representation because it's already there. It's there when T'Challa is talking to his father in the afterlife, it's there when M'Baku decides to stand with, and protect T'Challa.
We're much more than just the color of our skin; we share a much deeper bond. We're all brothers, and sisters. We're all human.
I won't knock you for this, but it isnt equal. Black Panther is kind of a one in a million movie. 99% of movies of any type represent White folks of all shapes, sizes, and walks of life. Your life is inundated with representation, boss. It is a special kind of privilege
The goal is to have a character creator equivalent to BDO. I'm guessing you won't have any issues making your character the way you want. Personally, I don't really know if it's me, but posts like this kinda rub me the wrong way. When I watch a movie like Black Panther where the cast is mostly black, zero white main cast, and one of the few white people is a sub villain. I don't think well where's my representation? Art usually reflects the artist, whether that's games, movies, novels. Most Fantasy is based off of Tolkien, so it makes sense that a lot of the races tend to be white.
But, who cares? I was raised, and still believe today that as M.L.K. Jr. said, "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character." When I watch the Black Panther, I don't think where's my representation because it's already there. It's there when T'Challa is talking to his father in the afterlife, it's there when M'Baku decides to stand with, and protect T'Challa.
We're much more than just the color of our skin; we share a much deeper bond. We're all brothers, and sisters. We're all human.
I won't knock you for this, but it isnt equal. Black Panther is kind of a one in a million movie. 99% of movies of any type represent White folks of all shapes, sizes, and walks of life. Your life is inundated with representation, boss. It is a special kind of privilege
Its a movie based in a region that makes sense for it's demographic. It was also made because of stan lee's comics
Who isnt even within that demographic.
Calling someone Privileged (for being white) is something people made to be microaggressive and racist without outright saying they are racist.
Either way I wouldnt go the route of calling people privileged just because you dont agree with them. Argue their logic, not their skin.
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NelsonRebelMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
@suprvilln
I would like to hear your thoughts about my previous comment, if you have any.
Also, unrelated, what other cultures have Dwarf-like beings outside Scandinavia? Just out of curiosity.
Hey! I did read your comment and it helped a lot actually to know and it made me even more excited to play the game!
Check out the Biloko of Zaire, Tokoloshe in South Africa, and Yumbo from South Africa which are like a dwarf/fairy hybrid. There are also lots of bad ass monsters in African mythology which would be cool to see in a game.
I never felt excluded because the game didn't include my skin color or race of people. This idea seems very weak to me. I think people are stronger than that and I think OP you are stronger than that too. You shouldn't let some fantasy games make you feel uneasy because they didn't include your people. It's just fiction.
I also think it's fine if the 8 "white classes" are just that. That doesn't mean they are all the same or do not have cultural diversity. For example, Italians,Irish, the British, the French, Germans, and other Euroethnic races generally are considered white, but they culturally differ from each other.
There are 195 countries in the world with their own regions, including everyone would be impossible. Forced diversity is not diversity. It's the illusion of it.
However, we don't know much of the lore yet, if at all really. There isn't really much to go off of. I wouldn't want the lore/gameworld to change due to diversity/inclusion. It should fit the philosophy/scope of those in charge to build what they think is the best MMO experience.
Also let's be real man, these tulnar have been underground for God knows how long. They haven't seen sunlight in ages. If any ingame-race's skin color would be all white, it'd probably be them. Some of em do be reptiles and the like though.
well luckily it doesnt matter what you feel is "weak" lol. ive played many games without a single black character and loved it. the whole point if my original post is thinking outside of the box and building a CREATIVE and DIVERSE world to immerse myself into and not just making cookie cutter games.. no culture is a monolith and considering that makes for a better game to me. cheers!
I think that every day we're coming on these forums to a thread asking about real world problems in Ashes. Racial diversity, sexual diversity and possibly any other politics that can be imagined.
I'm not trying to ignore real life issues or the reported discrimination against peoples of the world.
Ashes is just a game though, and that is how it should be. Every day the news reports the issues of the world. Every day I hear it all.
I play games like Ashes to escape that. I think we all do. So let's leave Ashes to be that escape from the real world.
Im sorry for anyone that faces discrimination in real life, but, and let's be honest here, no one at Intrepid has designed these races to be discriminatory.
Lets just all be gamers and have a politics free Ashes.
It is ignorant and naïve of you to say people play games to escape the problems of the world when a lot if problems in the world can be found in games as well. You have to look at things in a bigger picture and for POC, LGBTQ, alt lifestyle people to live in a world where they are not fairly represented and then in their form of escape (gaming) they face those same things. That is the world we love in and these games and stories are made/told by people who live in the real world and if they want their game to truly be an escape then they would at least consider that they have the power to provide a sense of inclusion in a game that is often sparse in the real world. They of course do not have to but they do themselves and their player base a disservice by not doing so. From what i have learned/researched today it seems as though AoC has taken that into consideration which means a lot to me.
The goal is to have a character creator equivalent to BDO. I'm guessing you won't have any issues making your character the way you want. Personally, I don't really know if it's me, but posts like this kinda rub me the wrong way. When I watch a movie like Black Panther where the cast is mostly black, zero white main cast, and one of the few white people is a sub villain. I don't think well where's my representation? Art usually reflects the artist, whether that's games, movies, novels. Most Fantasy is based off of Tolkien, so it makes sense that a lot of the races tend to be white.
But, who cares? I was raised, and still believe today that as M.L.K. Jr. said, "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character." When I watch the Black Panther, I don't think where's my representation because it's already there. It's there when T'Challa is talking to his father in the afterlife, it's there when M'Baku decides to stand with, and protect T'Challa.
We're much more than just the color of our skin; we share a much deeper bond. We're all brothers, and sisters. We're all human.
Black Panther is set in an African country that has been shrouded in secrecy and isolated since it's inception. Why would there be white people native to Wakanda? One if the protagnosists was white in that movie and the main antagonist was black. Your point makes no sense.
and stop with the MLK quotes. America rejected MLKs message and he was assassinated....and if he was alive today he certainly would support diversity and inclusion in games. There were MANY civil rights leaders and if you are reaching for an MLK quote to try to use that against a movie like Black Panther then havent truly grasped his message at all.
I know the op wasn't talking about character create but character create does kinda solve a lot of these issues. Or in my opinion it does. To say the human race in game is 'white' is kinda weird and borderline racist to me. They're human. They come in all forms. Players customize their avatar how they wish. And devs design npcs how they wish. Now if the devs just decided that every human npc is gonna be snow white, then yeah thats somewhat concerning.
Same thing with elves. They're meant to be fair skinned. You have the drow elf concept though ashes doesn't appear to have that. Though again, skin sliders in char create can fix this and devs can just throw in dark skinned elves and stick lore on it.
Orcs are orcs
Dwarves: as someone mentioned, the island dwarves do appear to be a bit more dark skinned.
I guess what I'm trying to say here is it all depends on what the player creates and what kind of npc the devs create. Yes the devs can add a specific culture that is more relevant to a specific skin type and that would be cool. The only time things get concerning is if devs dont add skin sliders or just copy paste white npcs.
Also OP, don't bring up asian mmos in a race discussion. They either always look like anime characters, or lolli or cute animals or 5ex dolls or k-pop stars. theres no in between. Race is an irrelevant concept in that regard
For me, i'm middle eastern/south asian. I have brown skin and was never bothered by representation. I was always that by the book player who designed a character to resemble my real self (aside from hair style. Always go with a cooler hairstyle than the one i rock irl). That's just me though. I won't claim to understand where you're coming from because i truly don't understand it.
Racism is the belief that one race is superior to a other. look up the definition. nothing i said was racist or even hinted at white people or any other people being inferior.
Screw the safe space.
What about my bi-sexual character? I need my flag as an option on my tabard! Or rather, how about you allow me to split my character in 3 colors, pink, purple, and blue?
I also want male npc's to blush whenever I walk past them.
having gay/bi-sexual characters would be awesome actually. ESO has a lot of that and it makes the stories much more interesting
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NelsonRebelMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I do not want politics in a video game. That type of thinking is what directly ruins the integrity and immersion of a world.
Besides AoC is more than likely already about as diverse as it gets. We're getting a lizard race and hawaiin dwarves.
are you saying having diverse races in a game = politics? lol.
No, if you look at what I was replying to I was talking about a different subject altogether there from the previous postings who were talking about off topic items.
You can see from my other posts that AoC is already in the direction of diversity.
Comments
In my ideal game we won't have white, black, brown etc people in the game, instead we will have blue, purple and neon people!
1. One of two actual human races is of arabian and north african design
2. Orcs werent designed after american indigenous populations
3. One dwarf race was designed after one of THE MOST OVERLOOKED ETHINICITIES EVER (Polynesian)
"Aelean architecture has a French medieval influence.
Dünir have a Nordic cultural influence.
Empyreans have a Greco-Roman imperialistic feeling.
The Niküa have a Polynesian influence.
The Py'Rai have a Navajo Native American influence.[63] Py'Rai architecture has a woodland inspiration.
Pyrian architecture has a Greco-Roman influence.
The Vek have a Mesoamerican racial influence."
Edit: I am of turkish and german decent, i grew up between both worlds and lived through racism my whole life. I dont care for what it symbolises in a game. Games are there to leave the real world behind, see impossible things and have fun.
You are right but I hope they didn't base races on any real world cultures to being with. Maybe its hard to come up with truly unique races and cultures but I wish they did that instead of basing it real world stuff.
You will find that 99% of Ashes is based on something else.
They were influenced by existing cultures on earth regarding aesthetics.
O. M. G. YES! We totally need safespace in nodes! How about... Prisons? Everyone gets their own little cell, and we just... forget about them?
What about my bi-sexual character? I need my flag as an option on my tabard! Or rather, how about you allow me to split my character in 3 colors, pink, purple, and blue?
I also want male npc's to blush whenever I walk past them.
Let's be honest, I loved that joke xD
Aside from that, I can't feel you cuz I'm white, but yeah, I agree with you. Would be good to have options like GW2 PoF and the thing you said about the dwarves made me think, I don't have enough info about that, I used to think about dwarves in a LotR way.
So yeah, I think, as it is a whole new universe, maybe the stuff about dwarves etc could be overlooked, but at least there should be an option for everyone to be in the game.
I'm sorry mate, I stopped right here.
Guild Wars 1, added black ethnicity with Elonians with Nightfall expansion. Before that, you could perfectly make tanned/black characters. The elonians were mostly additional skintones and faces. Same for GW2.
BDO, it's a korean game. Still, you can edit the face enough and have a character black. Especially with this extensive character creator.
Didn't play the rest.
Let's be honest here, you can't always apply human ethnicities to a fantasy world. So you are bound to not find ethnicities, skin color, face styles in a game. While it's fine, I do understand you however, I'm far from this political hysteria going on atm, but I'm always a bit disappointed with character creator in general because I can't make a good looking black/tanned female character.
From my understanding of AoC, Py'rai elves will be able to have "brown"/black skintones (mega happy with that one, black elves as in chocolate elves are extremely hard to find in a vanilla game) and if I'm not mistaken you have a human race that is similar to elonians.
Edit : LockedOut said it all, couldn't have said better myself.
Representations of north african and middle eastern races isn't uncommon. But subsa-haran African cultures are almost entirely ignored, perhaps because there are so many of them. Their folklore is as wildly creative as anywhere else. (For those who seem to think they have no fantasy.)
But it is a fine line for western developers to walk between representation and cultural appropriation.
I would just say to create your ideal avatar, create a backstory, and jump in. Whether it's animalistic, white, black, brown, purple, or whatever. AOC is giving you the tools in the creator and the vast cultures of the world to make your own path.
It is rough trying to represent everyone and every culture but again at some point the player has to help themselves.
By applying real-world constructs, you're restricting yourself from the start and opening yourself up to being offended or feeling misrepresented.
Hmm... a proposition worthy of discussion.
But grey color symbolizes neutrality. I don't feel neutral. So I'd suggest we make them 3-colored. Pink, Purple, Blue. As those 3 colors symbolizes both male/female, and everything between.
Can I also say... I really like your signature. But the skeleton color is bad.
I duno, about this topic, all this about inclusion and stuff in a fantasy game where I just run off to be a Zen orc or a hippy elf, like.. why does it have to be broken down to >that's the culture that inspired it<.
I can be a life devouring nightmare. - Grisu#1819
because people always want something to complain about
This is real life.
Everyone likes to project themselves in some way shape or form.
Personally I do like being able to make my characters have appearances close to my own with white/tan skin and go from there with my own game fantasy.
I won't knock you for this, but it isnt equal. Black Panther is kind of a one in a million movie. 99% of movies of any type represent White folks of all shapes, sizes, and walks of life. Your life is inundated with representation, boss. It is a special kind of privilege
Forgot this existed. I agree 100%
Its a movie based in a region that makes sense for it's demographic. It was also made because of stan lee's comics
Who isnt even within that demographic.
Calling someone Privileged (for being white) is something people made to be microaggressive and racist without outright saying they are racist.
Either way I wouldnt go the route of calling people privileged just because you dont agree with them. Argue their logic, not their skin.
Yup. Sadly not everyone will think like this. People forget why we play games to relax and get away from the world for a bit.
Hey! I did read your comment and it helped a lot actually to know and it made me even more excited to play the game!
Check out the Biloko of Zaire, Tokoloshe in South Africa, and Yumbo from South Africa which are like a dwarf/fairy hybrid. There are also lots of bad ass monsters in African mythology which would be cool to see in a game.
well luckily it doesnt matter what you feel is "weak" lol. ive played many games without a single black character and loved it. the whole point if my original post is thinking outside of the box and building a CREATIVE and DIVERSE world to immerse myself into and not just making cookie cutter games.. no culture is a monolith and considering that makes for a better game to me. cheers!
It is ignorant and naïve of you to say people play games to escape the problems of the world when a lot if problems in the world can be found in games as well. You have to look at things in a bigger picture and for POC, LGBTQ, alt lifestyle people to live in a world where they are not fairly represented and then in their form of escape (gaming) they face those same things. That is the world we love in and these games and stories are made/told by people who live in the real world and if they want their game to truly be an escape then they would at least consider that they have the power to provide a sense of inclusion in a game that is often sparse in the real world. They of course do not have to but they do themselves and their player base a disservice by not doing so. From what i have learned/researched today it seems as though AoC has taken that into consideration which means a lot to me.
Black Panther is set in an African country that has been shrouded in secrecy and isolated since it's inception. Why would there be white people native to Wakanda? One if the protagnosists was white in that movie and the main antagonist was black. Your point makes no sense.
and stop with the MLK quotes. America rejected MLKs message and he was assassinated....and if he was alive today he certainly would support diversity and inclusion in games. There were MANY civil rights leaders and if you are reaching for an MLK quote to try to use that against a movie like Black Panther then havent truly grasped his message at all.
Racism is the belief that one race is superior to a other. look up the definition. nothing i said was racist or even hinted at white people or any other people being inferior.
are you saying having diverse races in a game = politics? lol.
having gay/bi-sexual characters would be awesome actually. ESO has a lot of that and it makes the stories much more interesting
No, if you look at what I was replying to I was talking about a different subject altogether there from the previous postings who were talking about off topic items.
You can see from my other posts that AoC is already in the direction of diversity.
MMO's should be diverse. Thats kind of the point