Class System, does it need Overhaul?

Hi, I was wondering about the class system. Reading from the wiki it said you can choose a main class and a secondary class but there will be no skill trees? So all people who choose the same classes will be identical in terms of abilities if we discount their race?

Additionally, would the character be the same if I swapped primary and secondary class with each other? For example if I went from Fighter primary and Mage secondary to Mage primary and Fighter secondary?

It might be worthwhile to make some sort of skill tree to give the player some sort of choice regarding rotation, abilities, aoe, single target, etc etc.

What do you think? Am I misinformed? Just joined the movement.
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Comments

  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    You are misinformed.
  • TalentsTalents Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited April 6
    No, they wouldn't be identical. The secondary archetype gives you 4 augments trees, so the Mage archetype might have Lightning, Fire, Ice, Teleportation (not the actual augments, just an example). You can then apply one of the augment types to each spell. So if you're a Tank + Mage, you could apply the Fire augment to your Shield Bash, and the Lightning augment to your Charge, this allows a lot of variety.

    Then there's also the case that you have skill points that you put into your skill tree, so some Tanks might put 3 points into their Charge ability, whereas other Tanks may forgo the Charge ability completely and put more points into other skills.

    Then ontop of that, there are the augments that come from things outside your class like your Racial augments and your Religious augments.

    And no, Fighter + Mage and Mage + Fighter would not be the same. The Fighter + Mage would have Fighter spells with Mage augments and the Mage + Fighter would have Mage spells with Fighter augments. The primary archetype dictates what you actually are, the secondary archetype adds flavour.
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  • PalagosPalagos Member
    Talents, thank you for the helpful answer!
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Palagos wrote: »
    Talents, thank you for the helpful answer!

    I would suggest spending more time on the wiki, as the above are not the only places you seem misinformed.

    That is why I simply replied that you are indeed misinformed (which was a direct question you asked), because attempting to correct all aspects that you seem to have wrong will take far too long.
  • PalagosPalagos Member
    Yeah thanks mate, it just came off a bit rude as you didn't contribute anything. If you just wrote what you did here I would understand what you meant with it. Cheers
  • DreohDreoh Member
    edited April 7
    Noaani wrote: »
    Palagos wrote: »
    Talents, thank you for the helpful answer!

    I would suggest spending more time on the wiki, as the above are not the only places you seem misinformed.

    That is why I simply replied that you are indeed misinformed (which was a direct question you asked), because attempting to correct all aspects that you seem to have wrong will take far too long.

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    Edit:
    @Palagos
    Yea there's supposedly going to be very high levels of customization when making your class, there are some issues that could potentially happen with that that I go into detail in my recent thread, but really you won't have to worry too much about not having a character you can tailor to your own kind of play.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    I'm not sure what your confusion here is.

    The wiki is a perfectly fine place to go to get a basic understanding of the game.

    It is not a particularly good thing to use as a source in a debate on the game. You want first party sources for that.
  • FerniFerni Member
    @Palagos , I think @Talents already explained very good the basics of how it works but if you are interested in read more about it you can go to the Classes page on the Wiki ^^.
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Alpha One
    The pain never ends
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    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • PalagosPalagos Member
    @Ferni Thanks man, I gave it a read and found it interesting but sad to see that only a few of the classes have their augments and abilities specified. Will be very interesting to see the upcoming death augment from Cleric!
  • PalagosPalagos Member
    Also, Tank stun lock burst seems broken haha, charge with knockup + stun + knockdown
  • CaerylCaeryl Member
    The game literally has not even gotten to open public testing, why are you even making a thread like this
  • neuroguyneuroguy Member
    Nagash wrote: »
    The pain never ends

    Eternal undeath. Careful what you wish for.
  • PalagosPalagos Member
    edited April 8
    @Caeryl If you look at OP you can read that I was initially misinformed regarding the class system, for example I thought there would be no skill tree at all. With that "knowledge" I decided to post this thread in order to either give my opinion on why skill trees are necessary and to learn more, or simply just to learn more, which I did.

    You can also read that I literally just joined the movement for this game, so I don't understand the hostility coming from you at all. I am just excited for the game and want to know more/help make it better mate, and that's why I created the thread, no evil motives.

    Edit: Sentence structure
  • Caeryl wrote: »
    The game literally has not even gotten to open public testing, why are you even making a thread like this

    This!
  • DreohDreoh Member
    Damn, why are so many of you being so unwelcoming to newcomers to the community?

    Yes we get the occasional repeat thread, there's no way around that.

    You can either ignore it, or help quickly point them in the right direction and be done with it.
    Imagine if the first reply by Noanni was at the very least "You've got the wrong info, but here's a link to the wiki where you can find out more"

    Then bam, thread closed.

    Instead we get this trailing dialogue where people are insulting and just being outright rude which sidetracks and extends the thread far beyond the lifespan it would have had. Meanwhile the actual answers are slowly trickled in between the negative comments.
  • maouwmaouw Member
    Dreoh wrote: »
    Damn, why are so many of you being so unwelcoming to newcomers to the community?

    Yes we get the occasional repeat thread, there's no way around that.

    You can either ignore it, or help quickly point them in the right direction and be done with it.
    Imagine if the first reply by Noanni was at the very least "You've got the wrong info, but here's a link to the wiki where you can find out more"

    Then bam, thread closed.

    Instead we get this trailing dialogue where people are insulting and just being outright rude which sidetracks and extends the thread far beyond the lifespan it would have had. Meanwhile the actual answers are slowly trickled in between the negative comments.

    yus.
    save the outrage for when it's necessary.
    I wish I were deep and tragic
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Dreoh wrote: »

    You can either ignore it, or help quickly point them in the right direction and be done with it.
    Imagine if the first reply by Noanni was at the very least "You've got the wrong info, but here's a link to the wiki where you can find out more"
    Why would Iink him to the wiki?

    If you read the OP, it was basically "I read the wiki, this is what I think it said in relation to classes, am I right or am I misinformed?".

    I answered that he was misinformed.

    I didnt need to link the wiki, as he already knew about it. Linking it after the OP said he had already read it would be - in my opinion - facetious.

    With what the OP said, pointing out that he was misinformed was all that was needed - especially considering he specifically asked whether that was the case.

    From there, he would be in a position to just go back to the wiki and continue reading - which one would have to assume was his plan of he was indeed informed that he was misinformed.
  • DreohDreoh Member
    Bro, do you just get off on being contradictory and negative?
  • I'm kinda interested on where in the wiki OP found the info used in his original post or if he just straight up misunderstood what he read there....
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  • DreohDreoh Member
    edited April 8
    I'm kinda interested on where in the wiki OP found the info used in his original post or if he just straight up misunderstood what he read there....

    Does it matter?

    Just inform him or show him where to find the correct information.

    If he accepts it then pat yourself on the back because you helped the community!
    If he doesn't and he argues or doesn't accept your source then you might have cause for discourse.

    This forum is so full of negativity, I've admittedly contributed to it a few times, but only in a heavy discussion. Not unprompted like in this thread and some others.

    Edit: I guess it matters if what you meant is that there's misinformation on the wiki. In that case yea that's kind of an issue lol
  • Dreoh wrote: »
    I'm kinda interested on where in the wiki OP found the info used in his original post or if he just straight up misunderstood what he read there....

    Does it matter?

    Just inform him or show him where to find the correct information.

    If he accepts it then pat yourself on the back because you helped the community!
    If he doesn't and he argues or doesn't accept your source then you might have cause for discourse.

    This forum is so full of negativity, I've admittedly contributed to it a few times, but only in a heavy discussion. Not unprompted like in this thread and some others.

    If it does matter? Sure if i found any interest it clearly does matter for me.

    Sure those 2 seems like reasonable possibilities that would happen from informing OP, sadly informing him wasn't my intention, as it was already done....

    Oh that's amusing, you found my interest/curiosity to be somewhat negative? Quite a far reach.

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  • DreohDreoh Member
    Dreoh wrote: »
    I'm kinda interested on where in the wiki OP found the info used in his original post or if he just straight up misunderstood what he read there....

    Does it matter?

    Just inform him or show him where to find the correct information.

    If he accepts it then pat yourself on the back because you helped the community!
    If he doesn't and he argues or doesn't accept your source then you might have cause for discourse.

    This forum is so full of negativity, I've admittedly contributed to it a few times, but only in a heavy discussion. Not unprompted like in this thread and some others.

    If it does matter? Sure if i found any interest it clearly does matter for me.

    Sure those 2 seems like reasonable possibilities that would happen from informing OP, sadly informing him wasn't my intention, as it was already done....

    Oh that's amusing, you found my interest/curiosity to be somewhat negative? Quite a far reach.

    Fair enough

    Though I wasn't saying you were being negative, that's kind of a reach.
  • Dreoh wrote: »
    Dreoh wrote: »
    I'm kinda interested on where in the wiki OP found the info used in his original post or if he just straight up misunderstood what he read there....

    Does it matter?

    Just inform him or show him where to find the correct information.

    If he accepts it then pat yourself on the back because you helped the community!
    If he doesn't and he argues or doesn't accept your source then you might have cause for discourse.

    This forum is so full of negativity, I've admittedly contributed to it a few times, but only in a heavy discussion. Not unprompted like in this thread and some others.

    If it does matter? Sure if i found any interest it clearly does matter for me.

    Sure those 2 seems like reasonable possibilities that would happen from informing OP, sadly informing him wasn't my intention, as it was already done....

    Oh that's amusing, you found my interest/curiosity to be somewhat negative? Quite a far reach.

    Fair enough

    Though I wasn't saying you were being negative, that's kind of a reach.

    "This forum is so full of negativity, I've admittedly contributed to it a few times, but only in a heavy discussion. Not unprompted like in this thread and some others."

    I mean you used this phrase in my quote/reply, so yeah... sure.

    And yes my intent/interest was the possibility of incorrect information on the wiki.
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  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Dreoh wrote: »
    Bro, do you just get off on being contradictory and negative?

    Nope, and I'm not sure why you would think either of those things.
  • DreohDreoh Member
    edited April 8
    Dreoh wrote: »
    Dreoh wrote: »
    I'm kinda interested on where in the wiki OP found the info used in his original post or if he just straight up misunderstood what he read there....

    Does it matter?

    Just inform him or show him where to find the correct information.

    If he accepts it then pat yourself on the back because you helped the community!
    If he doesn't and he argues or doesn't accept your source then you might have cause for discourse.

    This forum is so full of negativity, I've admittedly contributed to it a few times, but only in a heavy discussion. Not unprompted like in this thread and some others.

    If it does matter? Sure if i found any interest it clearly does matter for me.

    Sure those 2 seems like reasonable possibilities that would happen from informing OP, sadly informing him wasn't my intention, as it was already done....

    Oh that's amusing, you found my interest/curiosity to be somewhat negative? Quite a far reach.

    Fair enough

    Though I wasn't saying you were being negative, that's kind of a reach.

    "This forum is so full of negativity, I've admittedly contributed to it a few times, but only in a heavy discussion. Not unprompted like in this thread and some others."

    I mean you used this phrase in my quote/reply, so yeah... sure.

    And yes my intent/interest was the possibility of incorrect information on the wiki.

    If you took it that way I sincerely apologize, that line wasn't directed at you or your quote at all.
    It seems like my tendency to do multiple lines of thought in a single comment confuses people as it has for @Noaani and you just now

    As for @Noaani anyone can just read through your post history and see. That's not an exaggeration, I implore anyone who thinks I'm being hyperbolic to see for themselves.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    I'm kinda interested on where in the wiki OP found the info used in his original post or if he just straight up misunderstood what he read there....
    As am I.

    For someone to be that wrong, they usually have a piece of information in their head that they got from somewhere and they just assumed it was right (usually Reddit). Intil that piece of information is identified and corrected, they will continue to have the wrong idea.

    Since I couldn't figure out how the OP got as misinformed as they did, I didn't see a point in trying to correct them. Rather, the best thing to do was (and still is) on my opinion to let them know they have it wrong so that they can identify why they are so far off.
  • DreohDreoh Member
    Noaani wrote: »
    I'm kinda interested on where in the wiki OP found the info used in his original post or if he just straight up misunderstood what he read there....
    As am I.

    For someone to be that wrong, they usually have a piece of information in their head that they got from somewhere and they just assumed it was right (usually Reddit). Intil that piece of information is identified and corrected, they will continue to have the wrong idea.

    Since I couldn't figure out how the OP got as misinformed as they did, I didn't see a point in trying to correct them. Rather, the best thing to do was (and still is) on my opinion to let them know they have it wrong so that they can identify why they are so far off.

    You're wrong.
  • Noaani wrote: »
    I'm kinda interested on where in the wiki OP found the info used in his original post or if he just straight up misunderstood what he read there....
    As am I.

    For someone to be that wrong, they usually have a piece of information in their head that they got from somewhere and they just assumed it was right (usually Reddit). Intil that piece of information is identified and corrected, they will continue to have the wrong idea.

    Since I couldn't figure out how the OP got as misinformed as they did, I didn't see a point in trying to correct them. Rather, the best thing to do was (and still is) on my opinion to let them know they have it wrong so that they can identify why they are so far off.

    I thought of the possibility of incorrect information on the wiki, because of the following sentence OP used: "Reading from the wiki it said"
    I would've honestly and definitely informed him of what he got wrong and what is correct as it helps the community in a pretty positive way, information is never too much in my opinion, but it was already done by the time i got here.
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  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited April 8
    Noaani wrote: »
    I'm kinda interested on where in the wiki OP found the info used in his original post or if he just straight up misunderstood what he read there....
    As am I.

    For someone to be that wrong, they usually have a piece of information in their head that they got from somewhere and they just assumed it was right (usually Reddit). Intil that piece of information is identified and corrected, they will continue to have the wrong idea.

    Since I couldn't figure out how the OP got as misinformed as they did, I didn't see a point in trying to correct them. Rather, the best thing to do was (and still is) on my opinion to let them know they have it wrong so that they can identify why they are so far off.

    I thought of the possibility of incorrect information on the wiki.
    As did I.

    If I saw something on the wiki that looked like it could have been where the OP got the wrong info from, I would then have had something to correct. Problem is, the OP was wrong on almost everything they thought about the class system.

    Trying to correct people when you can't see how they got to the conclusion they got to is much harder than just saying they got to the wrong conclusion and leaving them to work out the why part of that

    Since the OP already made it obvious that they were happy to try and look things up for themselves, I saw (and still see) no point in doing more than pointing out that they are misinformed - made even more true by the fact that there was a direct question asked as to whether they were misinformed or not.

    Others may offer up more than that, and good for them. I'm one to let people at least try and find the correct info themself - especially when they have made it obvious that they are willing to do that. If someone is looking for information themself and is on the wrong path, pointing out that they are on the wrong path is all that should be needed, imo. They can then go back and try and find that right path.

    Even with others telling him what it is that he got wrong, the OP will still no doubt have spent several hours on the wiki looking at what information is there - exactly the same as he would if my reply was the only one to this thread.

    Maybe people would think it less of an issue if I used a smily face or some shit.
This discussion has been closed.