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Request to make the Empyrean more distinguished from Humans

2

Comments

  • Seo RakSeo Rak Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited February 28
    @Teyloune the idea is pretty cool. Gives them some uniqueness
  • Ryliah DragonvaleRyliah Dragonvale Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited February 28
    Never thought I would want elves with glowing eyes, but yes, I do, and I love this idea! <3
  • WestergardWestergard Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One
    Mm, I personally am not entirely convinced the idea of this. I think it's nice to have one of the Elf races look more "standard elf-y". That's how it is with all the other races. Dunir and Ren'kai look like typical Dwarves and Orcs compared to their counterparts.

    If this happens I really hope it's an optional thing and/or the intensity of the glow can be adjusted. I hate having glowbug flashlight eyes on my Elves in WoW after the WoD update to their models. Subtle glow is much better looking that flashlight eyes IMO

    Could be cool to have glowing halo-esque options too to show Essence closeness and make the race feel more divine. Something like this:

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    I really love this idea!
    But rather than constant glowing eyes, tattoos and halos I'd prefer it if these glows and halos [TEMPORARILY] manifested during the casting of abilities.

    Like a human cleric just casts a healing spell.
    An empyrean cleric manifests a glowing white halo during that cast and glowing eyes that linger for a second and then shimmer out.

    An empyrean warrior might manifest an angry flaming halo while raging.
    Empyrean ranger manifests green vibrant halo.
    Mages a crackling blue halo that's very close to essence

    I really want a standard pretty Elf race and giving them these [OPTIONAL] glows for eyes, runic tattoos and halos would set them apart from both py'rai and humans

    On the other hand it could be amazing if rather than an outward change, the empyreans showed an inward difference from the other races because of their closeness to essence.
    Think LoTR elves not aging or getting ill or not being affected by heavy snowfall or alcohol. Think DnD elves not needing sleep and instead meditating for four hours a night.

    By changing the way Empyreans interact with the world and the way the world pushes back against them you can give them the otherworldly or magical feeling that makes them seem more, or just a step beyond the other mortals without putting them into the flashy or uncanny valley.
  • I'll admit first and foremost, I'm going to be playing a Py'Rai and am immensely happy for the unique take on them. I also understand that Empyrean players want something just as striking but also the desire to keep it considerably more traditional. One way that we've already seen is the immensely beautiful collection of hair options that male and females have thus far been shown, but the light glow of the eyes if not even a cat like reflectiveness may be a good route and middle ground.

    I think its also important in the pursuit of it, they aren't just made to be Py'Rai light either. Empyreans and Py'Rai have evolved away from each other, while they both have nature reverence, Empyreans are progressive. The high fantasy vs classical i think is important. But even in things like Lord of the Rings, Galadrial has eyes that have a special twinkle (and needed its own lighting rig for) because she was the last elf to see the light of the Tees of Valinor. Its not unreasonable to say that eyes are a place in which elves show the worlds affect on them, especially when it comes to magic in multiple pieces of fiction.

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  • VeleinVelein Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Seeing something like glowing eyes, glowing runes/tattoos/markings, then 'halo' effect or some type of glow would give a uniqueness to them, but also fit in how they are attuned to Essence more than the others. Not super over the top that blinds people, but just enough to set them apart. It also helps give them a bit more uniqueness from typical High Elves in games.

    We see from the other races they are trying to make each race different than what you see in other games, or at least as much as possible.
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  • Sword Brother SoriosSword Brother Sorios Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Just as long as High Elves don't have glowing eyes or other traits/characteristics due to some kind of divine reason, I'm all up for it. I'd be just fine if the glowing eyes had something to do with higher magical affinity or that's simply high elf physiology for you.
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  • RyanTheSirenRyanTheSiren Member
    edited March 1
    Just as long as High Elves don't have glowing eyes or other traits/characteristics due to some kind of divine reason, I'm all up for it. I'd be just fine if the glowing eyes had something to do with higher magical affinity or that's simply high elf physiology for you.

    I mean, those are kind of the same thing? The Gods are beings of The Essence, which is a metaphysical energy or life-force of sorts that can be manipulated to create what could be viewed as magic. The Gods exist on the plane of the gods, which is the most connected to the Essence. So having super high connection to the essence would be similar to being more "divine" in the Ashes universe it seems. Also all the races all seem to have their own Patron gods/were created by the Gods. The races are supposed to represent different aspects of the gods iirc

    I'm curious why you are against it being due to a divine reason?
  • ViBunjaViBunja Member
    edited March 1
    I do like the idea of glowing eyes, but I feel that glowing eyes are a too small detail to make any difference during combat or looking at a character from a few steps away, they would still look like humans. They definitely need something big, as Ryan said so, I like those examples and it would make the Empyrean unique.
  • Anduin KayvaanAnduin Kayvaan Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Alpha One
    ViBunja wrote: »
    I do like the idea of glowing eyes, but I feel that glowing eyes are a too small detail to make any difference during combat or looking at a character from a few steps away, they would still look like humans. They definitely need something big, as Ryan said so, I like those examples and it would make the Empyrean unique.

    I would say glowing stuff is always good as it does not morph their body. If they are supposed to be normal elves I think giving them evidence of that connection to the essence is the best way to go about it.
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  • ViBunjaViBunja Member
    ViBunja wrote: »
    I do like the idea of glowing eyes, but I feel that glowing eyes are a too small detail to make any difference during combat or looking at a character from a few steps away, they would still look like humans. They definitely need something big, as Ryan said so, I like those examples and it would make the Empyrean unique.

    I would say glowing stuff is always good as it does not morph their body. If they are supposed to be normal elves I think giving them evidence of that connection to the essence is the best way to go about it.

    Well, none of them are normal "race" since Intrepid said there were Elves, Humans, Dwarves and Orcs, and those original races are now gone and all that remains are the evolution of each race hence why none of them are called humans, elves, orcs, dwarves, but they have different names. Humans are now Kaelar and Vaelune. Dwarves are Dunir and Nikua, Orcs are Ren'Kai and Vek and Elves are Empyrean and Py'Rai.

    I keep seeing people bring this up, they want a traditional race, but from what we are told all of them don't longer exist in Verra. They are long-lost races and I feel trying to get the traditional races will go against what the lore and what Intrepid wants and they should fully embrace races that are different yet look similar to each of their own.

    I'd also suggest Kaelar and Vaelune get some interesting changes too, to make them look less human and more like an evolved human.
  • pyrealpyreal Member, Warrior of Old
    Elves should be head and shoulders above the human, literally.
  • Anduin KayvaanAnduin Kayvaan Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Alpha One
    ViBunja wrote: »
    ViBunja wrote: »
    I do like the idea of glowing eyes, but I feel that glowing eyes are a too small detail to make any difference during combat or looking at a character from a few steps away, they would still look like humans. They definitely need something big, as Ryan said so, I like those examples and it would make the Empyrean unique.

    I would say glowing stuff is always good as it does not morph their body. If they are supposed to be normal elves I think giving them evidence of that connection to the essence is the best way to go about it.

    Well, none of them are normal "race" since Intrepid said there were Elves, Humans, Dwarves and Orcs, and those original races are now gone and all that remains are the evolution of each race hence why none of them are called humans, elves, orcs, dwarves, but they have different names. Humans are now Kaelar and Vaelune. Dwarves are Dunir and Nikua, Orcs are Ren'Kai and Vek and Elves are Empyrean and Py'Rai.

    I keep seeing people bring this up, they want a traditional race, but from what we are told all of them don't longer exist in Verra. They are long-lost races and I feel trying to get the traditional races will go against what the lore and what Intrepid wants and they should fully embrace races that are different yet look similar to each of their own.

    I'd also suggest Kaelar and Vaelune get some interesting changes too, to make them look less human and more like an evolved human.

    What I am meaning is not that they are just a carbon copy of the Pyrians but more so that they are a bit more traditional with unique traits. People are correct in the fact that each of the 4 main races have one more traditional interpretation sub race and one unique one. While I personally would love to see the Empyrean be more "angelic" like because Empyrean means from heaven or from the skys in english. I do think the Empyrean will be a bit more traditional in design. Take the Ren'kai for example, they do have draconic type traits such as their eyes, skin texture, and shape of their faces having a bit of a long lizard style. I also can see the hulking stereotypical orcish shape. In no ways am I just wanting Legolas, more so Legolas with glowing eyes, maybe a halo, and magical glowing traits of essence around them. They should not be LoTR elves but something unique to being a high elf with unique traits while still keeping with the idea they are a high elf.
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  • Anduin KayvaanAnduin Kayvaan Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Alpha One
    @ViBunja I do agree with you though. I think the races should all have unique interpretations and traits. Even the humans. Otherwise there is no difference between Dwarves, Humans, and Empyrean other than beards, height, and ears.
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  • GoalidGoalid Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    @ViBunja I do agree with you though. I think the races should all have unique interpretations and traits. Even the humans. Otherwise there is no difference between Dwarves, Humans, and Empyrean other than beards, height, and ears.

    I really think they need to give humans something otherwise it'll just be a "playing human in a fantasy game? lol" situation.
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  • Anduin KayvaanAnduin Kayvaan Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Alpha One
    Goalid wrote: »
    @ViBunja I do agree with you though. I think the races should all have unique interpretations and traits. Even the humans. Otherwise there is no difference between Dwarves, Humans, and Empyrean other than beards, height, and ears.

    I really think they need to give humans something otherwise it'll just be a "playing human in a fantasy game? lol" situation.

    Agreed, but what that something is. I do not have a clue since when you start changing humans they stop being humans.
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  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Goalid wrote: »
    @ViBunja I do agree with you though. I think the races should all have unique interpretations and traits. Even the humans. Otherwise there is no difference between Dwarves, Humans, and Empyrean other than beards, height, and ears.

    I really think they need to give humans something otherwise it'll just be a "playing human in a fantasy game? lol" situation.

    Why not? You play a human in a fantasy game because you want to play a human in a fantasy game. Many people don't mind playing a human in a fantasy game. I've often done it. If it was a problem, then you wouldn't have that as an option in almost every fantasy game ever.
     
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  • VaknarVaknar Moderator, Member, Staff
    edited March 8
    Keep the great ideas coming, everyone! I'm loving reading through this thread ^_^
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  • JustVineJustVine Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited March 8
    Goalid wrote: »
    @ViBunja I do agree with you though. I think the races should all have unique interpretations and traits. Even the humans. Otherwise there is no difference between Dwarves, Humans, and Empyrean other than beards, height, and ears.

    I really think they need to give humans something otherwise it'll just be a "playing human in a fantasy game? lol" situation.

    Agreed, but what that something is. I do not have a clue since when you start changing humans they stop being humans.

    High body hair options. You can get hairy dwarfs or orcs but to go true sasquatch you go kaelar.
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  • AidanKDAidanKD Member
    edited March 8
    I personally think that finding uniqueness in their actual physique/build rather than adding a bunch of special effects would be more favorable. I might well be a minority in my opinion, but if there are glowing eyes I wouldn't want it too overbearing, and personally the halo to me seems a bit much, even if it's not a permanent feature.

    I don't necessarily have better ideas, but examples I *might* try to give would be, perhaps if these beings are perhaps to a degree "ethereal" they might physically be a little more translucent/transparent. Not see through, just not 100% opaque. More slender features in the face and body. I would have them still have more Elf-like features which is tall and lean, but add these elements to it.

    To me they would have wisdom and it would show in their face and posture.

    i'm spitballing a bit but I am trying to focus on more permanent features which I feel could still give them some identity.

  • ShoelidShoelid Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I agree with wanting a bit of uniqueness. The humans and the elves had different silhouettes in A1 but that's only because body customization wasn't in yet, and even then you could hardly tell them apart. With a character customization as in-depth as Steven Sharif claims, I think that distinction would be even smaller.

    It does seem though that the difference is largely cultural. Looking through what lore tidbits we've gotten, I don't see anything about "a proficiency for the arcane", which would have largely diminished during their stay at Sanctus anyway. Remember, even though the Py'rai have those crazy wood antlers, they're not magical because no magic existed on Sanctus. If the Empyrean were to have unique traits like glowing eyes or other VFX, what would the reasoning be?

    All we're really told about the Empyrean and the Pyrian elves in general is that they're comparatively reclusive, smaller in number, a talent for higher learning (whether that's martial or academic learning) and militaristically fierce.

    None of that is "an inborn talent for magic/druidistic arts'. In a 2018 Extra Life stream Steven says the greatest magical minds are Pyrian (the old parent race) but attributes that to "being solely in the pursuit of knowledge", not their biology. Not even an increased lifespan is mentioned, something that seems to be a staple of the LotR/DnD elf tropes.

    All of this to say, unless they reveal some more information about Empyrean that shows they DO have significant differences biology wise, I think they would be fine just being slightly more lithe/lean than the humans. After all, their armor and weapon designs seem to benefit mobility rather than raw power.
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Shoelid wrote: »
    It does seem though that the difference is largely cultural. Looking through what lore tidbits we've gotten, I don't see anything about "a proficiency for the arcane", which would have largely diminished during their stay at Sanctus anyway. Remember, even though the Py'rai have those crazy wood antlers, they're not magical because no magic existed on Sanctus. If the Empyrean were to have unique traits like glowing eyes or other VFX, what would the reasoning be?

    I would say that their eyes didn't glow on Sanctus. They probably got freaked out when they arrived on Verra and the ambient Essence caused their eyes to start glowing. Assuming they didn't have lore about that aspect of Verra before returning to it.
     
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  • Anduin KayvaanAnduin Kayvaan Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Alpha One
    Atama wrote: »
    Shoelid wrote: »
    It does seem though that the difference is largely cultural. Looking through what lore tidbits we've gotten, I don't see anything about "a proficiency for the arcane", which would have largely diminished during their stay at Sanctus anyway. Remember, even though the Py'rai have those crazy wood antlers, they're not magical because no magic existed on Sanctus. If the Empyrean were to have unique traits like glowing eyes or other VFX, what would the reasoning be?

    I would say that their eyes didn't glow on Sanctus. They probably got freaked out when they arrived on Verra and the ambient Essence caused their eyes to start glowing. Assuming they didn't have lore about that aspect of Verra before returning to it.

    Exactly, we also don't have any lore about the Pyrians stating they didn't glow. Mostly all we have is statues of them. Basically what I am pushing forward is the desire to have Empyrean's be different than the Kaelar more than height or ears.

    Also do keep in mind the "Glitterwall" is a military tactic the Pyrian combined their mastery of the arcane with their martial skills to be the most dominant military force on Verra. Again, I am leaning into the fact Empyrean means from heaven by definition and if the Ren'kai with their connection to dragons are any indicator of deeper meaning of symbols I think having the Empyrean being connected to the essence and having it visually shown would be great.
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  • ViBunjaViBunja Member
    I think another good option for humans would be to have Gigantism and Dwarfism. We rarely see any of the human traits in fantasy. I think a tall Dwarf would make more sense than just making them smaller, especially with Polynesians being in the average on the tall side, they should be actually taller than Dwarves and not smaller, especially it might be bad in the long term if Polynesians find it offensive being represented as really small people.

    I do agree, they get to have a glowing tattoo, glowing eyes when they return to Verra. Sadly some cosmetics already have glowing eyes and are not limited to Empyrean, so this is why I keep saying they need to have a unique feature we can tell from the looks they are not humans. Maybe not a halo, but a crown, or maybe something that glows on their back. Something small, but enough to tell apart from humans.
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I say go a step further and give bioluminescent color-changing HAIR to go with the eyes.

    Much easier to study and pore over the tomes at night when your eyes and hair are giving off enough light for you to read by.

    And since they aren't the 'woodland hunters' who would need to be less conspicuous, and would probably be MORE intimidating to their enemies if they had luminous hair, everything fits, right?

    How serious I am about this can be gauged by the current luminosity of my hair.
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  • -T0Mb--T0Mb- Member
    edited March 10
    I like lotr elves and my personal opinion is that Empyreans should look much like them. I also like the idea of glowing eyes if they don't look like WoW's elven torchlight eyes.

    I don't like much those halo or glowing tattoo ideas. Especially that halo thing doesn't look good if you ask me. I would like to see first how those glowing tattoos will look like.
    Bad Wolf wrote: »
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    I like this elf in this picture. Those eyes are very good! B)
  • ViBunjaViBunja Member
    -T0Mb- wrote: »
    I like lotr elves and my personal opinion is that Empyreans should look much like them. I also like the idea of glowing eyes if they don't look like WoW's elven torchlight eyes.

    I don't like much those halo or glowing tattoo ideas. Especially that halo thing doesn't look good if you ask me. I would like to see first how those glowing tattoos will look like.
    Bad Wolf wrote: »
    099b50e3981e6a893cd1584c83b7e113.png

    I like this elf in this picture. Those eyes are very good! B)

    My issue is that armor exists that covers the entire face and has glowing eyes. So if we just limit it to what you said, there will be an armor set that looks like Empyrean, so that's why I'm suggesting something that will glow on top of the armor so we can tell it's an empyrean and not a human.
  • -T0Mb--T0Mb- Member
    edited March 10
    @ViBunja I got your point and that is something to think. Empyreans must have diffent body types than humans for sure. I am not a big fan of glowing auras around Empyreans that someone suggested but how about some little wisps flying or levitating around them?
  • ViBunjaViBunja Member
    -T0Mb- wrote: »
    @ViBunja I got your point and that is something to think. Empyreans must have diffent body types than humans for sure. I am not a big fan of glowing auras around Empyreans that someone suggested but how about some little wisps flying or levitating around them?

    They might have something like that for summoners who summons fairies and wisps, so that's also out of the question. Lots of the stuff is being taken hence why glowing floating things around their body instead of what's taken. Sadly, it seems lots of options are being taken. Body shape would be great, though usually, elves are smaller than humans, the shortest adult is 54.6 cm (1 ft 91⁄2 in) and the tallest adult is 2.72 m (8 ft 11.1 in). In shapes, humans are really versatile.

    Empyreans have a holy relation, so suggesting something that shines from their bodies to match their name seems the most fitting, another thing would be wings, but flying races are a no. I wasn't thinking of halos myself, but something akin to halos but different enough to be confused with them. Like a glowing crown that floats around their head. That'd be perfect.
  • -T0Mb--T0Mb- Member
    To be honest I dislike ideas that want to make Empyreans look like angels (halos, wings, glowing auras etc.) including my wisp idea that I mentioned before.

    Like I said, I would like Empyreans to look more like lotr elves with slightly glowing eyes and maybe with glowing tattoos. They could be little bit taller and leaner than humans and have different postures. Maybe their hair could be the key thing to differ Empyreans from humans when wearing armors.

    This is my personal opinion about Empyreans. I'll wait what Intrepid will show us in the future and then I give more feedback. ;)
  • Anduin KayvaanAnduin Kayvaan Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Alpha One
    Giving this the old bump because of the current Empyrean reveal!
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