Because you are trying to manipulate information and ignorant saying it won't. Any added information a tracker have in game will only make third party trackers better, or if first party trackers are lacking and not adding anything big people simply use third party trackers.
Your idea that guild perks for trackers is also really just plain stupid, I've seen you back that on pure ignorance on competitive players. If you have limited guild perks you will use the third party trackers since (trackers would be accepted by that point) and use your guild points else where.
Only reason you say as a "guild perk" is so you can try to bait and say it can't be against to since its already in game and any tracker should be fine to use. You are the same person that also liked the post about all add ons should be fine earlier in this thread im fairly certain and they would be fine with combat assistance sooooo, you can't be trusted either.
i wonder if Mag7spy has caught up in volume of posts to noaani just because he quotes full posts without even reading them and spams the conversation to be completely unreadable
Only reason you say as a "guild perk" is so you can try to bait and say it can't be against to since its already in game and any tracker should be fine to use.
We've gone over this already, but as it doesnt fit your imaginary narrative, you seem to have ignored it.
It would be viable for Intrepid to actually have a rule against trackers if they have one built in to the game. They are allowed to have rules preventing people from replicating any in game function out of the game. As such, if the game has a combat tracker function, they are allowed a rule preventing out of game tracker use. As a rule, this would actually extend past the computer the games software is on.
Not saying it would be easy to enforce, but it is the only way I know of in which they could actually have a rule against third party trackers.
As such, your comments that anyone would ask Intrepid to add a built in tracker to make it more viable to use a third party tracker is just outright untrue. If anything, the literal opposite of what you are suggesting would be the case.
I do not play many games and they do not interest me. Real life is more interesting to me and doing nothing but sitting in my chair is often more interesting to me.
If a game can't compete with that then perhaps flat, artificial gimmicks like video games just aren't that appealing!
Name one game that isn't a time-wasting gimmick.
Big Picture.
They can't compete and until there's something interesting about games such as innovative and deep design I won't be playing much of anything or be looking to buy any games.
I do not play many games and they do not interest me. Real life is more interesting to me and doing nothing but sitting in my chair is often more interesting to me.
If a game can't compete with that then perhaps flat, artificial gimmicks like video games just aren't that appealing!
Name one game that isn't a time-wasting gimmick.
Big Picture.
They can't compete and until there's something interesting about games such as innovative and deep design I won't be playing much of anything or be looking to buy any games.
There's no depth.
So wait, you DON'T actually play MineCraft on 2b2t?
I'm not a hardcore escapist, I just prefer reality to video games.
Again, that's my bad. You've shared some very specific and precise perspectives and insights on gaming and what would make a good game, so I offered the one I know that comes closest to what you mentioned.
That was my error in thinking that your time spent detailing the concepts of the game were because you were actually a more dedicated gamer who had experienced many games in ways that would cause those opinions to form.
I hope that you find what you are looking for in Real Life, I just didn't understand that you're not actually interested in playing Ashes as much as the rest of us probably are.
Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
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poisonzMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
simple and sweet.
Personal DPS/healing meters - Yes
your choice if you're willing to share that info with others because people will find a way to create their own meters.
anything that tracks other people's DPS/heals/CC & cooldowns - No
I do not play many games and they do not interest me. Real life is more interesting to me and doing nothing but sitting in my chair is often more interesting to me.
If a game can't compete with that then perhaps flat, artificial gimmicks like video games just aren't that appealing!
Name one game that isn't a time-wasting gimmick.
Big Picture.
They can't compete and until there's something interesting about games such as innovative and deep design I won't be playing much of anything or be looking to buy any games.
I saw 8x8x4 classes [scam; boring reskins], weak copy pasted gameplay, a long empty development, complete low effort reliance on UE5 for 'new features' that are just part of the engine, scamstarter, unverified hires. . . and decided to throw my weight into it.
It's the same shit I see coming from the industry all the time. It pissed me off.
I saw 8x8x4 classes [scam; boring reskins], weak copy pasted gameplay, a long empty development, complete low effort reliance on UE5 for 'new features' that are just part of the engine, scamstarter, unverified hires. . . and decided to throw my weight into it.
So you just came here to shit on the game and the devs. Got it. You seem like a very nice person.
Name one entertainment activity that isnt a time wasting gimmick.
For most of us, that is why we are here. We have a block of time we would like to be filled by a form of entertainment, and MMO's are our first choice for that.
The question I would then put to you is - if you do not play MMO's, why would you then come to a forum for a specific MMO, make a suggestion on that games development, and then get pissy when it is pointed out to you that your suggestion will not perform in the manner you think it will perform.
Why would you argue with someone that clearly knows what they are talking about (several someones, actually), if you know you dont know much about the subject at hand?
I saw 8x8x4 classes [scam; boring reskins], weak copy pasted gameplay, a long empty development, complete low effort reliance on UE5 for 'new features' that are just part of the engine, scamstarter, unverified hires. . . and decided to throw my weight into it.
It's the same shit I see coming from the industry all the time. It pissed me off.
I mean, the MMO industry makes MMO's that MMO players want to play.
If you are not an MMO player, you shouldnt expect an MMO developer to develop an MMO for you.
I ride motorbikes to get around, I dont really drive cars - I just dont like then very much. Yet you dont see me complaining every time a new car is announced, complaining that it has 4 wheels just like every other car out there on the market.
To me, that is the same shit I see coming from the car industry all the time. It pissed me off.
Music, fence (not in competitiv or just few local one) W40k (waste of time and money XD ) pen&paper RPG, and video game in various form.
Getting to see friend and share a drink, or simply eat with my sister.
Unproductiv waste of time, and love to do them all. But is it really a waste ? fun is important part for any human,
And you say you see the same shit ? but... Again, you are just claiming a thing considering it a truth, but it is YOUR truth (and you are perfectly right to think this ! )
I love MMORPG... most solo game i got bored. (most, not all). For MMORPG, i want some specific things not so frequent nowadays, Ashes of Creation but other project got most of them, and... those are also game i won't recommend to my friends for simply reason : it won't fit their taste... Played enough game with them to know it. (also simple fact i will go there on release some will give a try on release)
Finally, you are the one who wasted your time here... trying to defend an ideal video game while not being a real consumer / player for video game...
Personal DPS/healing meters - Yes
your choice if you're willing to share that info with others because people will find a way to create their own meters.
anything that tracks other people's DPS/heals/CC & cooldowns - No
The small handful is arguing to track other players and view cds and all effects they do and ones on them. Pretty much anything that happens they want to track it.
Community has agreed with the devs not wanting it so a small handful just protest on here every day.
@Noaani
"name one entertainment. . ."
Working out. Light working out, even. Research. Productive things due to them being more grounded in reality lol; not going to list any more since it's up to the individual to find things to do.
A lot of things can consume your time and energy while being much more fulfilling and entertaining.
@Noaani
"then get pissy when it is pointed out to you that your suggestion will not perform in the manner you think it will perform.
"
I don't know what you're referring to exactly but Trackers are dogshit and logs are dogshit. That convo is done; either the dev decides to make tracking possible or they decide to make it infinitely difficult and impossible.
Video game genres aren't real; people claiming MMOs must be a certain way to be considered an MMO are. lol.
Arbitrary categories don't mean anything just like your arguments mean nothing because they require consensus that doesn't exist for the other person (me) to agree with you lmao and you just keep repeating them and assuming i'll wind up agreeing with you thus retroactively making your hollow arguments real and good to boot.
If everyone wants to eat shit I'm sure there are plenty of people that will defend it in forums. Ask me why I hop in and start telling people to stop eating shit and play/ make a good game or do something else with their life.
Just make the game deeper. Everyone has 99 things they could be doing instead that would be much more interesting and productive.
I didn't make the world and it's full of strange people lol
How about adding Guitaroo mechanic for Lute/Strum Bard --> you move the joystick and hit the strum button and you play the song and do something impactful. That appeals to a different audience and there are 7 other Archetypes to play.
"No that's not an MMO" no shit but no one wants to play when all you get are anti-social fucks that want the entire game to be for THEM and to have no branching design, no creativity, and no room for passion from anyone but people exactly like them.
I guess what makes the most sense is that you want a game that only suits yourself and people a lot like you. Everything else is just your attempt at getting your way.
So why don't you just compromise and move on? What is so tragic about all this that you resist diversification from the most narrow formula of what an MMO is and should be? How the fuck does branching design ruin the game?
The more involved and evolved the game is. . . less tab, more action, more skill-based gameplay, more mechanics involved with playing your character starting early on rather than tacked onto the end. . .
I highly doubt you'd be good at other genres of game even after a year, 2 years. . . 3 years? 8 years? Just adding a little bit of other genres to challenge you and adding a bit more mystery for a real RPG and fun feel to the game is not going to hurt anyone or anything at all.
What's the issue here.
There's a real analogue to real life, average behavior here. People that don't work out and completely let themself go while fixated on the TV all day. It might be even EASY to get someone to work out slightly every day if you show up and work out with them, doing something relatively challenging and LITERALLY working out with them. Like same # of reps, similar movements.
But that's what it takes --> they won't do it on their own.
So why not add a layer of obfuscation, relax your eyes, and enjoy some extra baseline mechanics to a game then farm some spicy boars that put up more of a fight? have mechanics? require you to dodge a couple times and aim a little? What is wrong with that?
Minimum required. The minimum required for someone to do something is different per individual. The minimum required for me to play a video game is higher.
That is because there are other things that reward engagement more.
I'm not sure how engaged you really are with those hobbies or if you are just saying those things to bolster some argument; but an artificial experience can hardly compare lol.
fencing and music is more granular and real than a game; though overall combat is deeper than fencing and music is an extension of audio, physiology, and whatever else; my meaning being that engagement can be a lot higher and deeper with those while greater and deeper engagement with a video game is just Game Design and Development, Mathematics, Computer Science, Information Engineering, Simulation, et cetera.
Personal DPS/healing meters - Yes
your choice if you're willing to share that info with others because people will find a way to create their own meters.
anything that tracks other people's DPS/heals/CC & cooldowns - No
The small handful is arguing to track other players and view cds and all effects they do and ones on them. Pretty much anything that happens they want to track it.
Community has agreed with the devs not wanting it so a small handful just protest on here every day.
Community is small here on this forum.
On other forums some players do not have a good prediction for this game.
Reasons to doubt or avoid the game:
- it contains PvP with corruption or automatic flagging in deep ocean (they call it ganking)
- some hate doing only PvE while leveling up
- no fast travel / teleportation and cross-realm to let them play a dungeon fast (they have real life they say)
- some hate anti-cheat software (reduces game performance they say)
- some will avoid it because it doesn't allow DPS meters and plugins
- some will hate the RNG or the difficult crafting
Using a self made meter as @poisonz say could be ok but it takes time to make and might not be very good.
But a 3rd party one... can I trust that tool? Will it be open source to let everyone check what is really doing?
If it runs real time on the pc, it will also reduce the game performance?
Such things might drive players away, players who would otherwise play the game.
Eventually what is important is to get a community which likes playing the game together.
I see no way of satisfying everybody.
Recent posts were about meritocracy.
Do players like those who are very very good?
Maybe they accept them but being very good at obtaining an item in a raid does not make one good at being a guild leader or a nice person.
Some feel envy when others own legendary items. They'll call them cheaters.
I see players reporting other players for using DPS meters even if they are not using them.
I see GMs banning very skilled players because they are too good and because other players reported them.
But banning can happen silently too, without the player knowing the game banned him.
I want the person who is frustrated that this mob SEEMS to always crit them at the worst times, to be able to get the data to confirm that isn't true statistically ...
... or that is true statistically.
September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
So yes, it's relevant here, but unfortunately games DO give you a few objective concepts of 'merit' that you must personally ignore in order to reach the sort of peace required to not trigger this effect. MMOs are a meritocracy already, particularly PvX ones (no matchmaking, competition for resources). This is another case where the Trackers are a 'tool', to be used by either the 'oppressor' or the 'uplifter', the game itself is creating the meritocratic tilt.
I would challenge this a bit. (because I find it an interesting conversation)
Sure, I guess the combat provides numbers...but what makes these numbers 'merit'?
Is combat/numbers the main thing that matters in an MMO? I would argue not.
Most people describe MMOs as social games...leading me to believe that the 'merit' would come more from social interactions. ie: Is this person fun to play with? Do they make me laugh? Do they cheer me up? Do they support me when I need it? etc.
I think similarly to what we've discussed about toxicity, can also apply to 'merit'. Each individual has their own definition. I imagine to some players being 'toxic' equates to "low social merit"
Agreed, but again bear in mind that the entire premise of this discussion is that Intrepid claims to offer powerful enemies that only the top percentage of players on the server can defeat.
Not 'will'. 'Can'. It is required for 'aspiration of those who are less skilled than that'.
Intrepid says 'this is a form of merit we wish for players to aspire to'.
If they found that 95% of their playerbase never even tried because the game was so fun otherwise that their raiding scene did not matter, I would expect and hope that they would spend less time on that type of PvE content. But for the purposes of the 'Trackers' part of this, the concern is always 'having objective data for one's own build' (could be done without a Tracker by most people) and 'having objective data for performance in a full raid against powerful high-tier enemies (cannot be done without a Tracker by most people without spending up to 3x as long outside of game as in it, GENERALLY).
So the meritocracy here that 'is going to be subject to meters' is the high end content. With the suggested method, there's no way that 'random PvE groups just leveling in a dungeon' who don't already have a Guild Tracker for a different reason would ever see use of such a thing.
So yes, MMOs are social, but THIS MMO contains high end PvE combat, or supposedly will, and it contains high end group vs group contests, which both lead to meritocratic win/loss situations.
If I can kill your character in every fight we have, I might not be fun to play with, I might not make you laugh or cheer you up or offer you anything other than 'an unbeatable opponent'. To overcome that part of it, you would need 'better performance', not 'social skill'.
I guess what I really wanted to address was the idea that trackers available to all via the game itself create this "ideal meritocracy".
I'm saying that IF that is true...then we should look into the potential negative sides of that "ideal meritocracy" too. I think that article brings up very good arguments around those negatives.
The combat 'merits' can totally exist along side the social ones, but should ALL players aspire to that high end PvE content? Or should ALL players aspire to be fun to play with in a social setting/game?
I think by making trackers "acceptable" or IS providing their own, pushes the 'merit scale' towards this idea that combat/numbers are the main way to prove you are "good" at this game.
With that all said, do I think I know the 'correct' answer to this? No way, but I'd like to think I understand where both sides are coming from. I think this is an interesting way to view this debate with a different perspective.
Hm. I can agree with this, actually. I do hope that wouldn't happen.
But I can also say that if 'the numbers' seemed meaningful to design in the first place, the game has other problems. So I'll try to pare it down to one concept.
"If you have an objective way of determining how well you are doing at the thing you are trying to do, the game is usually more fun. If you allow others or THE GAME ITSELF to dictate 'what thing you should be doing', then that is where your problem lies."
Is the person whose personality demands that they are 'in the top percentage of players' for success and happiness, able to achieve this more easily because they have no Tracker available to use for improvement?
Is the person whose personality demands that they consistently inform others that they are not average and would definitely overcome a challenge, less likely to claim that others are weaker than them, because they don't have a tracker to measure with?
Replying to the last sentence: Is the person less likely to claim that others are weaker than them, because they don't have a tracker to measure with?
I think the person will do it in both cases, but in one case has to do it in words and convince the other. That requires a lot of soft skills. There are trainings about this, how to give negative feedback.
Having an objective way of measuring performance can help avoiding words.
The raid or guild leader points to the tool output and there is less emotional talk.
What percentage of players will play such content?
Do they participate in the rest of the game-play too: attacking caravans, helping to destroy other nodes, disrupt enemy trade routes... ?
- if percentage is low, then is not important if there are DPS meters or not in the game. Both categories just provide some materials to the rest of the players. And they are a minority due to the game design
- if percentage is high, then those who are better team players should be favored because they'll have to do the other content I mentioned above. Else bandits and pirates will cut them off from the global economy.
I hope those nice pirates sing sea shanties too, to not drive away the sensitive raiders.
September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
Sure, it is a thing you can enjoy, but I thoroughly enjoy my job. However, my job is not entertainment.
Video game genres aren't real
Agreed. They are abstract constructs.
However, they are useful abstract constructs. If we all talk about MMORPG's, then we all know exactly what type of game it is we are talking about.
Well, mostly. There are a few opinions as to what makes an MMO an MMO - but they are minor, for the most part.
What is sure though, is that no one that is participating in a discussion about an MMO is going to mistake that discussion for something like a racing game, or a colony builder.
How about adding Guitaroo mechanic for Lute/Strum Bard --> you move the joystick and hit the strum button and you play the song and do something impactful. That appeals to a different audience and there are 7 other Archetypes to play.
I mean, many MMO's already have classes based on rhythm.
Instead of jumping in to a long established game genre with all these ideas, why don't you go out and actually learn a bit about that genre first?
This is the reason I ignored your comment about adding this kind of gameplay last time. You clearly have literally no MMO knowledge as a foundation. Why even bother talking to you about a facet of MMO's that has existed for two decades if you can't even be bothered looking at the genre yourself?
I mean, last time I pointed out the inherent flaws in a suggestion you had refused to do even basic research in to (making a suggestion for a combat tracker replacement without actually knowing what a combat tracker is really used for) you got all pissy over it. Why would I then point out the inherent flaws in your new suggestion that have been known to people in the MMO community for that two decade time period?
If you want people to get involved in discussion on ideas you have, you need to be able to take criticism well - if you can't, people will just ignore your suggestions, much as I did last time you bought up the above game.
I guess what makes the most sense is that you want a game that only suits yourself and people a lot like you.
If by "like me" you mean MMO players that are not currently playing an MMO - of whom there are several million of us - then yeah.
Fun fact, that is also the base target audience Intrepid has for Ashes.
If someone's attitude towards games is
I do not play many games and they do not interest me.
then that person should not expect any games to ever be made to suit them.
I mean, if you were a game developer and you had the choice of developing a game for someone that loves the genre you want to make a game for - and especially for a number of the specific games you have taken as inspiration - or someone that just doesn't like games at all, which one would you develop you game for?
If this -
doing nothing but sitting in my chair is often more interesting to me.
Is your honest opinion on computer games, then I really quite strongly suggest spending your time on things like this instead. You'll be far happier spending time on what you enjoy rather than - bizarrely - talking about a thing you do not enjoy.
Personal DPS/healing meters - Yes
your choice if you're willing to share that info with others because people will find a way to create their own meters.
anything that tracks other people's DPS/heals/CC & cooldowns - No
I actually agree with you in principle that if a player doesnt want others to track them, they should be in a position to prevent that from happening.
The only real difference between what you are saying here and my suggestion for guild trackers is that my suggestion has shifted the point of agreeing to share tracker information from "at will" as I assume your suggestion would have it, to when joining a guild. My suggestion also limits who you can share that info with to only those in your guild.
The reason for this is simple. It prevents people requiring tracker info be shared in order to be bought along on content - something we all know some people would require. If it is simply not within the ability of players in pick up groups to share that information, then no one will be able to even ask for it.
The reason i set this to the guild level is twofold. First, you shouldnt be joining a guild with people you would want to hide this information from. Second, if you are someone that simply doesnt want trackers used on you, it is very likely that you will join a guild of like minded people. Since the tracker should be an optional guild perk, this would mean your guild doesnt pick it. If your guild doesnt pick it, no one can use a tracker on you, nor can anyone ever ask you for that data.
Some people (Mag, specifically) have completely mischaracterized what it is we are asking for. Or perhaps they have simply confused what it is we are asking for with what it is we have (currently, we have the same combat tracker regime as found in any other MMO).
Personal DPS/healing meters - Yes
your choice if you're willing to share that info with others because people will find a way to create their own meters.
anything that tracks other people's DPS/heals/CC & cooldowns - No
I actually agree with you in principle that if a player doesnt want others to track them, they should be in a position to prevent that from happening.
The only real difference between what you are saying here and my suggestion for guild trackers is that my suggestion has shifted the point of agreeing to share tracker information from "at will" as I assume your suggestion would have it, to when joining a guild. My suggestion also limits who you can share that info with to only those in your guild.
The reason for this is simple. It prevents people requiring tracker info be shared in order to be bought along on content - something we all know some people would require. If it is simply not within the ability of players in pick up groups to share that information, then no one will be able to even ask for it.
The reason i set this to the guild level is twofold. First, you shouldnt be joining a guild with people you would want to hide this information from. Second, if you are someone that simply doesnt want trackers used on you, it is very likely that you will join a guild of like minded people. Since the tracker should be an optional guild perk, this would mean your guild doesnt pick it. If your guild doesnt pick it, no one can use a tracker on you, nor can anyone ever ask you for that data.
Some people (Mag, specifically) have completely mischaracterized what it is we are asking for. Or perhaps they have simply confused what it is we are asking for with what it is we have (currently, we have the same combat tracker regime as found in any other MMO).
I'm curious as to 6our thoughts on the above.
I think the tracker should be a node achievement granted to all citizens of a node and stored in the node Reliquary.
Guilds exist in all MMOs. AoC wants to brink people together with the citizenship concept more than with the guild one. Guilds may compete and fight wars within the same node too but citizens participating in raids together grant benefits to the node itself.
Then citizens will be grateful for that guild or group for going to such raid events and unlocking the feature which might be useful after all in less extreme PvE encounters too.
If a tracker is added into the game, I will oppose to allow settings where players could reduce it's use by those who got this benefit.
But if there is a strong desire against them, then nodes should also get a similar benefit when winning in such raid events, to block the use of trackers.
So in both cases, to get or prevent the trackers, a few wins in raid without trackers is needed.
Then the mayor should trigger a referendum to ask players to vote, to chose for or against the tracker perk.
These relics can be destroyed when the node is destroyed so players will have to fight to get them again.
If the trackers bring toxicity, players will end up voting against them.
Some nodes will use them, some will not.
Then, depending on how future raids are won, with or without trackers, the game could give different rewards.
Instead of having one unique legendary item there could be two, one obtained with trackers, one without but visually different.
Certain legendary items may be limited to one per server at any given time.[7][8]
September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
I think the tracker should be a node achievement granted to all citizens of a node and stored in the node Reliquary.
Guilds exist in all MMOs. AoC wants to brink people together with the citizenship concept more than with the guild one. Guilds may compete and fight wars within the same node too but citizens participating in raids together grant benefits to the node itself.
Then citizens will be grateful for that guild or group for going to such raid events and unlocking the feature which might be useful after all in less extreme PvE encounters too.
If a tracker is added into the game, I will oppose to allow settings where players could reduce it's use by those who got this benefit.
The problem with tracker "for all" (which is close to what your idea is) is for people who don't want it, and don't want to be "tracked" (and don't do content where they have to prove their efficiency for sure)
I always had a really huge problem with FFlogs including datas from people who where in the team with a guy parsing fights, and then uploading them. Sure, an ingame tracker would have no or limited way to have datas uploaded to a site, making it less bad.
Even when i helped friend with their DPS, using tracker to get information needed to see different problem, give advice, or explain, i first was clear i would use the tracker. For me, those informations are part of "privacy"
Comments
Your idea that guild perks for trackers is also really just plain stupid, I've seen you back that on pure ignorance on competitive players. If you have limited guild perks you will use the third party trackers since (trackers would be accepted by that point) and use your guild points else where.
Only reason you say as a "guild perk" is so you can try to bait and say it can't be against to since its already in game and any tracker should be fine to use. You are the same person that also liked the post about all add ons should be fine earlier in this thread im fairly certain and they would be fine with combat assistance sooooo, you can't be trusted either.
― Plato
― Plato
Typical toxic player right here.
It would be viable for Intrepid to actually have a rule against trackers if they have one built in to the game. They are allowed to have rules preventing people from replicating any in game function out of the game. As such, if the game has a combat tracker function, they are allowed a rule preventing out of game tracker use. As a rule, this would actually extend past the computer the games software is on.
Not saying it would be easy to enforce, but it is the only way I know of in which they could actually have a rule against third party trackers.
As such, your comments that anyone would ask Intrepid to add a built in tracker to make it more viable to use a third party tracker is just outright untrue. If anything, the literal opposite of what you are suggesting would be the case.
I do not play many games and they do not interest me. Real life is more interesting to me and doing nothing but sitting in my chair is often more interesting to me.
If a game can't compete with that then perhaps flat, artificial gimmicks like video games just aren't that appealing!
Name one game that isn't a time-wasting gimmick.
Big Picture.
They can't compete and until there's something interesting about games such as innovative and deep design I won't be playing much of anything or be looking to buy any games.
There's no depth.
So wait, you DON'T actually play MineCraft on 2b2t?
I see... well... uh... bye I guess.
I recommend it though, it seems like your kind of thing.
Again, that's my bad. You've shared some very specific and precise perspectives and insights on gaming and what would make a good game, so I offered the one I know that comes closest to what you mentioned.
That was my error in thinking that your time spent detailing the concepts of the game were because you were actually a more dedicated gamer who had experienced many games in ways that would cause those opinions to form.
I hope that you find what you are looking for in Real Life, I just didn't understand that you're not actually interested in playing Ashes as much as the rest of us probably are.
Personal DPS/healing meters - Yes
your choice if you're willing to share that info with others because people will find a way to create their own meters.
anything that tracks other people's DPS/heals/CC & cooldowns - No
ok
I'll ask you the same thing.
I saw 8x8x4 classes [scam; boring reskins], weak copy pasted gameplay, a long empty development, complete low effort reliance on UE5 for 'new features' that are just part of the engine, scamstarter, unverified hires. . . and decided to throw my weight into it.
It's the same shit I see coming from the industry all the time. It pissed me off.
You like be used and abused?
Name one entertainment activity that isnt a time wasting gimmick.
For most of us, that is why we are here. We have a block of time we would like to be filled by a form of entertainment, and MMO's are our first choice for that.
The question I would then put to you is - if you do not play MMO's, why would you then come to a forum for a specific MMO, make a suggestion on that games development, and then get pissy when it is pointed out to you that your suggestion will not perform in the manner you think it will perform.
Why would you argue with someone that clearly knows what they are talking about (several someones, actually), if you know you dont know much about the subject at hand?
I mean, the MMO industry makes MMO's that MMO players want to play.
If you are not an MMO player, you shouldnt expect an MMO developer to develop an MMO for you.
I ride motorbikes to get around, I dont really drive cars - I just dont like then very much. Yet you dont see me complaining every time a new car is announced, complaining that it has 4 wheels just like every other car out there on the market.
To me, that is the same shit I see coming from the car industry all the time. It pissed me off.
Music, fence (not in competitiv or just few local one) W40k (waste of time and money XD ) pen&paper RPG, and video game in various form.
Getting to see friend and share a drink, or simply eat with my sister.
Unproductiv waste of time, and love to do them all. But is it really a waste ? fun is important part for any human,
And you say you see the same shit ? but... Again, you are just claiming a thing considering it a truth, but it is YOUR truth (and you are perfectly right to think this ! )
I love MMORPG... most solo game i got bored. (most, not all). For MMORPG, i want some specific things not so frequent nowadays, Ashes of Creation but other project got most of them, and... those are also game i won't recommend to my friends for simply reason : it won't fit their taste... Played enough game with them to know it. (also simple fact i will go there on release some will give a try on release)
Finally, you are the one who wasted your time here... trying to defend an ideal video game while not being a real consumer / player for video game...
The small handful is arguing to track other players and view cds and all effects they do and ones on them. Pretty much anything that happens they want to track it.
Community has agreed with the devs not wanting it so a small handful just protest on here every day.
"name one entertainment. . ."
Working out. Light working out, even. Research. Productive things due to them being more grounded in reality lol; not going to list any more since it's up to the individual to find things to do.
A lot of things can consume your time and energy while being much more fulfilling and entertaining.
"then get pissy when it is pointed out to you that your suggestion will not perform in the manner you think it will perform.
"
I don't know what you're referring to exactly but Trackers are dogshit and logs are dogshit. That convo is done; either the dev decides to make tracking possible or they decide to make it infinitely difficult and impossible.
Video game genres aren't real; people claiming MMOs must be a certain way to be considered an MMO are. lol.
Arbitrary categories don't mean anything just like your arguments mean nothing because they require consensus that doesn't exist for the other person (me) to agree with you lmao and you just keep repeating them and assuming i'll wind up agreeing with you thus retroactively making your hollow arguments real and good to boot.
If everyone wants to eat shit I'm sure there are plenty of people that will defend it in forums. Ask me why I hop in and start telling people to stop eating shit and play/ make a good game or do something else with their life.
Just make the game deeper. Everyone has 99 things they could be doing instead that would be much more interesting and productive.
I didn't make the world and it's full of strange people lol
How about adding Guitaroo mechanic for Lute/Strum Bard --> you move the joystick and hit the strum button and you play the song and do something impactful. That appeals to a different audience and there are 7 other Archetypes to play.
"No that's not an MMO" no shit but no one wants to play when all you get are anti-social fucks that want the entire game to be for THEM and to have no branching design, no creativity, and no room for passion from anyone but people exactly like them.
I guess what makes the most sense is that you want a game that only suits yourself and people a lot like you. Everything else is just your attempt at getting your way.
So why don't you just compromise and move on? What is so tragic about all this that you resist diversification from the most narrow formula of what an MMO is and should be? How the fuck does branching design ruin the game?
The more involved and evolved the game is. . . less tab, more action, more skill-based gameplay, more mechanics involved with playing your character starting early on rather than tacked onto the end. . .
I highly doubt you'd be good at other genres of game even after a year, 2 years. . . 3 years? 8 years? Just adding a little bit of other genres to challenge you and adding a bit more mystery for a real RPG and fun feel to the game is not going to hurt anyone or anything at all.
What's the issue here.
There's a real analogue to real life, average behavior here. People that don't work out and completely let themself go while fixated on the TV all day. It might be even EASY to get someone to work out slightly every day if you show up and work out with them, doing something relatively challenging and LITERALLY working out with them. Like same # of reps, similar movements.
But that's what it takes --> they won't do it on their own.
So why not add a layer of obfuscation, relax your eyes, and enjoy some extra baseline mechanics to a game then farm some spicy boars that put up more of a fight? have mechanics? require you to dodge a couple times and aim a little? What is wrong with that?
Minimum required. The minimum required for someone to do something is different per individual. The minimum required for me to play a video game is higher.
That is because there are other things that reward engagement more.
I'm not sure how engaged you really are with those hobbies or if you are just saying those things to bolster some argument; but an artificial experience can hardly compare lol.
fencing and music is more granular and real than a game; though overall combat is deeper than fencing and music is an extension of audio, physiology, and whatever else; my meaning being that engagement can be a lot higher and deeper with those while greater and deeper engagement with a video game is just Game Design and Development, Mathematics, Computer Science, Information Engineering, Simulation, et cetera.
Community is small here on this forum.
On other forums some players do not have a good prediction for this game.
Reasons to doubt or avoid the game:
- it contains PvP with corruption or automatic flagging in deep ocean (they call it ganking)
- some hate doing only PvE while leveling up
- no fast travel / teleportation and cross-realm to let them play a dungeon fast (they have real life they say)
- some hate anti-cheat software (reduces game performance they say)
- some will avoid it because it doesn't allow DPS meters and plugins
- some will hate the RNG or the difficult crafting
Using a self made meter as @poisonz say could be ok but it takes time to make and might not be very good.
But a 3rd party one... can I trust that tool? Will it be open source to let everyone check what is really doing?
If it runs real time on the pc, it will also reduce the game performance?
Such things might drive players away, players who would otherwise play the game.
Eventually what is important is to get a community which likes playing the game together.
I see no way of satisfying everybody.
Recent posts were about meritocracy.
Do players like those who are very very good?
Maybe they accept them but being very good at obtaining an item in a raid does not make one good at being a guild leader or a nice person.
Some feel envy when others own legendary items. They'll call them cheaters.
I see players reporting other players for using DPS meters even if they are not using them.
I see GMs banning very skilled players because they are too good and because other players reported them.
But banning can happen silently too, without the player knowing the game banned him. ... or that is true statistically.
Is the person less likely to claim that others are weaker than them, because they don't have a tracker to measure with?
I think the person will do it in both cases, but in one case has to do it in words and convince the other. That requires a lot of soft skills. There are trainings about this, how to give negative feedback.
Having an objective way of measuring performance can help avoiding words.
The raid or guild leader points to the tool output and there is less emotional talk.
What percentage of players will play such content?
Do they participate in the rest of the game-play too: attacking caravans, helping to destroy other nodes, disrupt enemy trade routes... ?
- if percentage is low, then is not important if there are DPS meters or not in the game. Both categories just provide some materials to the rest of the players. And they are a minority due to the game design
- if percentage is high, then those who are better team players should be favored because they'll have to do the other content I mentioned above. Else bandits and pirates will cut them off from the global economy.
I hope those nice pirates sing sea shanties too, to not drive away the sensitive raiders.
Sure, it is a thing you can enjoy, but I thoroughly enjoy my job. However, my job is not entertainment.
Agreed. They are abstract constructs.
However, they are useful abstract constructs. If we all talk about MMORPG's, then we all know exactly what type of game it is we are talking about.
Well, mostly. There are a few opinions as to what makes an MMO an MMO - but they are minor, for the most part.
What is sure though, is that no one that is participating in a discussion about an MMO is going to mistake that discussion for something like a racing game, or a colony builder. I mean, many MMO's already have classes based on rhythm.
Instead of jumping in to a long established game genre with all these ideas, why don't you go out and actually learn a bit about that genre first?
This is the reason I ignored your comment about adding this kind of gameplay last time. You clearly have literally no MMO knowledge as a foundation. Why even bother talking to you about a facet of MMO's that has existed for two decades if you can't even be bothered looking at the genre yourself?
I mean, last time I pointed out the inherent flaws in a suggestion you had refused to do even basic research in to (making a suggestion for a combat tracker replacement without actually knowing what a combat tracker is really used for) you got all pissy over it. Why would I then point out the inherent flaws in your new suggestion that have been known to people in the MMO community for that two decade time period?
If you want people to get involved in discussion on ideas you have, you need to be able to take criticism well - if you can't, people will just ignore your suggestions, much as I did last time you bought up the above game.
If by "like me" you mean MMO players that are not currently playing an MMO - of whom there are several million of us - then yeah.
Fun fact, that is also the base target audience Intrepid has for Ashes.
If someone's attitude towards games is then that person should not expect any games to ever be made to suit them.
I mean, if you were a game developer and you had the choice of developing a game for someone that loves the genre you want to make a game for - and especially for a number of the specific games you have taken as inspiration - or someone that just doesn't like games at all, which one would you develop you game for?
If this -
Is your honest opinion on computer games, then I really quite strongly suggest spending your time on things like this instead. You'll be far happier spending time on what you enjoy rather than - bizarrely - talking about a thing you do not enjoy.
@poisonz
I missed this post.
I actually agree with you in principle that if a player doesnt want others to track them, they should be in a position to prevent that from happening.
The only real difference between what you are saying here and my suggestion for guild trackers is that my suggestion has shifted the point of agreeing to share tracker information from "at will" as I assume your suggestion would have it, to when joining a guild. My suggestion also limits who you can share that info with to only those in your guild.
The reason for this is simple. It prevents people requiring tracker info be shared in order to be bought along on content - something we all know some people would require. If it is simply not within the ability of players in pick up groups to share that information, then no one will be able to even ask for it.
The reason i set this to the guild level is twofold. First, you shouldnt be joining a guild with people you would want to hide this information from. Second, if you are someone that simply doesnt want trackers used on you, it is very likely that you will join a guild of like minded people. Since the tracker should be an optional guild perk, this would mean your guild doesnt pick it. If your guild doesnt pick it, no one can use a tracker on you, nor can anyone ever ask you for that data.
Some people (Mag, specifically) have completely mischaracterized what it is we are asking for. Or perhaps they have simply confused what it is we are asking for with what it is we have (currently, we have the same combat tracker regime as found in any other MMO).
I'm curious as to 6our thoughts on the above.
I think the tracker should be a node achievement granted to all citizens of a node and stored in the node Reliquary.
Guilds exist in all MMOs. AoC wants to brink people together with the citizenship concept more than with the guild one. Guilds may compete and fight wars within the same node too but citizens participating in raids together grant benefits to the node itself.
Then citizens will be grateful for that guild or group for going to such raid events and unlocking the feature which might be useful after all in less extreme PvE encounters too.
If a tracker is added into the game, I will oppose to allow settings where players could reduce it's use by those who got this benefit.
But if there is a strong desire against them, then nodes should also get a similar benefit when winning in such raid events, to block the use of trackers.
So in both cases, to get or prevent the trackers, a few wins in raid without trackers is needed.
Then the mayor should trigger a referendum to ask players to vote, to chose for or against the tracker perk.
These relics can be destroyed when the node is destroyed so players will have to fight to get them again.
If the trackers bring toxicity, players will end up voting against them.
Some nodes will use them, some will not.
Then, depending on how future raids are won, with or without trackers, the game could give different rewards.
Instead of having one unique legendary item there could be two, one obtained with trackers, one without but visually different.
The problem with tracker "for all" (which is close to what your idea is) is for people who don't want it, and don't want to be "tracked" (and don't do content where they have to prove their efficiency for sure)
I always had a really huge problem with FFlogs including datas from people who where in the team with a guy parsing fights, and then uploading them. Sure, an ingame tracker would have no or limited way to have datas uploaded to a site, making it less bad.
Even when i helped friend with their DPS, using tracker to get information needed to see different problem, give advice, or explain, i first was clear i would use the tracker. For me, those informations are part of "privacy"