There is nothing I would delay.
Every feature may be important for someone.
They already excluded hardcore PvE and PvPers with the PvX approach. At least the middle layer should have no reason to leave to another MMO.
But wouldn’t pvx be INCLUSIVE of both?
No. When Steven was asked what AoC does to retain WoW and FFIV players, he said 'that's the rub' is a PvX game.
But that hardcore PvPers will not like PvX is my opinion. Maybe the deep ocean could offer something but is not the core game.
This is something people try to say to push for more PvE and reduce pvp. Hardcore pvpers want pvx, and are not taken back by corruption and needing to guild dec for wars and more focused pvp.
I was not saying it to push in any direction.
But we will see soon what happens and how Steven will balance the game.
There is nothing I would delay.
Every feature may be important for someone.
They already excluded hardcore PvE and PvPers with the PvX approach. At least the middle layer should have no reason to leave to another MMO.
But wouldn’t pvx be INCLUSIVE of both?
No. When Steven was asked what AoC does to retain WoW and FFIV players, he said 'that's the rub' is a PvX game.
But that hardcore PvPers will not like PvX is my opinion. Maybe the deep ocean could offer something but is not the core game.
I've been hardcore at PvE and PvP before WoW or FF14.
So I'm not sure what you mean, really I don't consider either of those titles hardcore.
There is nothing I would delay.
Every feature may be important for someone.
They already excluded hardcore PvE and PvPers with the PvX approach. At least the middle layer should have no reason to leave to another MMO.
But wouldn’t pvx be INCLUSIVE of both?
No. When Steven was asked what AoC does to retain WoW and FFIV players, he said 'that's the rub' is a PvX game.
But that hardcore PvPers will not like PvX is my opinion. Maybe the deep ocean could offer something but is not the core game.
I've been hardcore at PvE and PvP before WoW or FF14.
So I'm not sure what you mean, really I don't consider either of those titles hardcore.
That was a miscalculation. Maybe I shouldn't have used the word hardcore.
Now I have to face the players who love AoC and consider themselves hardcore
I meant to say that there are players who want just PvP (no 45 days leveling by PvE), and dislike corruption style game mechanics, if the penalties are that excessive that you can kill another player only if he agrees to flag himself as combatant.
And once they win, they get maybe very little. The opponent keeps a large part of the inventory, keeps the gold, his gear... Depending how corruption is balanced, the game can feel to PvE for some PvPers while many PvEers will find other things to complain about.
So the PvX will push away some PvPers and some PvEers.
The middle layer might be large or thin.
I think was larger years ago but now is thin. I hope I'm wrong and we will have at least 10 servers in each region to chose from, when the game is released.
Another thing I am curious is how the action combat will be mixed with the tab targeting and if both sides will be satisfied.
There is nothing I would delay.
Every feature may be important for someone.
They already excluded hardcore PvE and PvPers with the PvX approach. At least the middle layer should have no reason to leave to another MMO.
But wouldn’t pvx be INCLUSIVE of both?
No. When Steven was asked what AoC does to retain WoW and FFIV players, he said 'that's the rub' is a PvX game.
But that hardcore PvPers will not like PvX is my opinion. Maybe the deep ocean could offer something but is not the core game.
I've been hardcore at PvE and PvP before WoW or FF14.
So I'm not sure what you mean, really I don't consider either of those titles hardcore.
That was a miscalculation. Maybe I shouldn't have used the word hardcore.
Now I have to face the players who love AoC and consider themselves hardcore
I meant to say that there are players who want just PvP (no 45 days leveling by PvE), and dislike corruption style game mechanics, if the penalties are that excessive that you can kill another player only if he agrees to flag himself as combatant.
And once they win, they get maybe very little. The opponent keeps a large part of the inventory, keeps the gold, his gear... Depending how corruption is balanced, the game can feel to PvE for some PvPers while many PvEers will find other things to complain about.
So the PvX will push away some PvPers and some PvEers.
The middle layer might be large or thin.
I think was larger years ago but now is thin. I hope I'm wrong and we will have at least 10 servers in each region to chose from, when the game is released.
Another thing I am curious is how the action combat will be mixed with the tab targeting and if both sides will be satisfied.
I love both because OWPvP is where iron sharpens iron. Battleground only cats aren’t hardcore to me, they’re safe players.
There is nothing I would delay.
Every feature may be important for someone.
They already excluded hardcore PvE and PvPers with the PvX approach. At least the middle layer should have no reason to leave to another MMO.
But wouldn’t pvx be INCLUSIVE of both?
No. When Steven was asked what AoC does to retain WoW and FFIV players, he said 'that's the rub' is a PvX game.
But that hardcore PvPers will not like PvX is my opinion. Maybe the deep ocean could offer something but is not the core game.
I've been hardcore at PvE and PvP before WoW or FF14.
So I'm not sure what you mean, really I don't consider either of those titles hardcore.
That was a miscalculation. Maybe I shouldn't have used the word hardcore.
Now I have to face the players who love AoC and consider themselves hardcore
I meant to say that there are players who want just PvP (no 45 days leveling by PvE), and dislike corruption style game mechanics, if the penalties are that excessive that you can kill another player only if he agrees to flag himself as combatant.
And once they win, they get maybe very little. The opponent keeps a large part of the inventory, keeps the gold, his gear... Depending how corruption is balanced, the game can feel to PvE for some PvPers while many PvEers will find other things to complain about.
So the PvX will push away some PvPers and some PvEers.
The middle layer might be large or thin.
I think was larger years ago but now is thin. I hope I'm wrong and we will have at least 10 servers in each region to chose from, when the game is released.
Another thing I am curious is how the action combat will be mixed with the tab targeting and if both sides will be satisfied.
I love both because OWPvP is where iron sharpens iron. Battleground only cats aren’t hardcore to me, they’re safe players.
This question was almost set up like a Dev Discussion! So, I'm curious to see what people say! It's almost the anti-thesis to the last Dev Discussion on In-Game Content, in a way
For me, Combat Pets are, in fact, the thing I'd be fine to do without.
Even if they were 'cheap' to make, conceptually, if they actually help at all, and aren't specifically a class feature, then I feel like they'd be among the most chaotic and troublesome contributors to balance issues, and take up a lot of time.
But I don't have a strong basis for this perception other than intuition and some experiences that I really don't think apply to this specific thing.
Totally agree.
Combat pets seem like they can be a mess both with screen clutter and balance. Hoping pets don’t actually add too much in terms of combat.
Just from the depth with which Intrepid intents to interconnect the systems I find it hard to imagine many systems that are "optional", though there certainly are some that might have less of an impact. The monster coin system probably will be more important for events than we might think - my assumption here is just because it has the potential to add greater depth to events like sieges or POI invasion events. Fishing as popular as it may be might also be a mechanic that COULD be added later but obviously that would reduce the immersion greatly. Animal husbandry might also be something that is not necessary for the core loops of the game but again - tons of immersion would be lost. Same could be said about the season systems.
But I think going through the list it becomes clear that while these systems aren't directly making the game unplayable, they are critical when it comes to determining the quality of the game and it could be argued that many games failed or never really took off because they tried to release early with barely more than the
I mean... "Naval Content" was a Kickstarter add-on.
I think the way it's been implemented, Open Seas has to be available at launch.
If Nodes are not avialable at launch - the game inherently fails.
This question was almost set up like a Dev Discussion! So, I'm curious to see what people say! It's almost the anti-thesis to the last Dev Discussion on In-Game Content, in a way
I figured this would be great for the team especially in terms of project management, content prioritization, timelines, and feedback 😄 I just know it’s perhaps something devs couldn’t ask without sending people into a panic so I figured I would lol.
I'd be happy if the Stock Market and combat pets never make it into the game. Who the hell logs into a fantasy game to play a fake stock market? You should have to go out into the world and make an effort to make money. There will be plenty of ways to do it. I just don't see the value in it.
And combat pets would nullify classes that have this as a feature or core function. Also, I do not want combat pets to become mandatory as was stated in the AMA. Not to mention the amount of clutter that this will add to large battles.
Hot take, but I don’t think we need naval combat at release.
I too am confident, Players will be very busy at Land first. Like : if Naval Combat comes only into the Game like half or full a Year after Release, i wouldn't find it so bad.
For me its monster coin, combat pets, stock market...and 9 different racial skins for each of the 100 nodes, or however many nodes there are.
But as someone who has watched for years as people have tried to get my favorite part of the game cut or diminished, I don't believe in calling for cuts or delays of anything. At least not until I've seen Intrepid's full vision and implementation of any given thing. Some of these things I listed that I don't find very important, other people might view as far more important.
For me its monster coin, combat pets, stock market...and 9 different racial skins for each of the 100 nodes, or however many nodes there are.
That the Nodes can look different in cultural/racial Infrastructure isn't bad at all. That is very refreshing.
... ... ... but what the Hell is "Monster Coin" ? Please dear Gods, don't let it be something like the WoW-Token right away. ^.^;" * cringes just at the thought of it *
There is nothing I would delay.
Every feature may be important for someone.
They already excluded hardcore PvE and PvPers with the PvX approach. At least the middle layer should have no reason to leave to another MMO.
But wouldn’t pvx be INCLUSIVE of both?
No. When Steven was asked what AoC does to retain WoW and FFIV players, he said 'that's the rub' is a PvX game.
But that hardcore PvPers will not like PvX is my opinion. Maybe the deep ocean could offer something but is not the core game.
I've been hardcore at PvE and PvP before WoW or FF14.
So I'm not sure what you mean, really I don't consider either of those titles hardcore.
That was a miscalculation. Maybe I shouldn't have used the word hardcore.
Now I have to face the players who love AoC and consider themselves hardcore
I meant to say that there are players who want just PvP (no 45 days leveling by PvE), and dislike corruption style game mechanics, if the penalties are that excessive that you can kill another player only if he agrees to flag himself as combatant.
And once they win, they get maybe very little. The opponent keeps a large part of the inventory, keeps the gold, his gear... Depending how corruption is balanced, the game can feel to PvE for some PvPers while many PvEers will find other things to complain about.
So the PvX will push away some PvPers and some PvEers.
The middle layer might be large or thin.
I think was larger years ago but now is thin. I hope I'm wrong and we will have at least 10 servers in each region to chose from, when the game is released.
Another thing I am curious is how the action combat will be mixed with the tab targeting and if both sides will be satisfied.
I love both because OWPvP is where iron sharpens iron. Battleground only cats aren’t hardcore to me, they’re safe players.
But I think people will find PvX enjoyable.
Exactly, most MMORPG PvP players have been in limbo for awhile now waiting for something to play with OWPVP.
PvE/leveling aspect of the game wont deter them either since there use to needing to do all that to pvp anyway
PvE = Content for more PvP orinated players too if no one in the world doing thing there less PvP to be had aswell
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
For me its monster coin, combat pets, stock market...and 9 different racial skins for each of the 100 nodes, or however many nodes there are.
That the Nodes can look different in cultural/racial Infrastructure isn't bad at all. That is very refreshing.
... ... ... but what the Hell is "Monster Coin" ? Please dear Gods, don't let it be something like the WoW-Token right away. ^.^;" * cringes just at the thought of it *
With soo much promised for ashes such as far as systems and content; How would you feel about some promised features not being available at launch, but added in future free base game updates. This is assuming it’s nothing major like naval content, an archetype, or nodes for example would be missing.
There’s obvious drawbacks to this as we’ve seen major developers neglect a game at release with a promise to fix it later (insert game example here). Games that just needed a little more time in the oven.
There’s also the consensus that so many of AOCs systems are interconnected and rely on one another by brilliant design.
However what if it was small systems such as combat pets as a rough example.
NOTE: This is not something I’m asking for or wanting, but felt it was a good topic of discussion as I feel that if AOC releases with even 75% of what it’s promised, it’ll be better than most (if not all) games on the market.
-Nyce
I think most of the systems have to be in there at release just due to the fact that they are all intertwined but there are may be some exceptions like the stock market.
I think if anything should be delayed until later it is regions of the world. The content creation from art to encounters to lore with take a lot of time and I would be perfectly fine starting in a smaller world that grows on 6 month schedules.
PvP arenas. There will be so much going on and I dont want Arenas to be a gimmick. Let them get everything else sorted and then bring more instanced PvP content if desired
PvP arenas. There will be so much going on and I dont want Arenas to be a gimmick. Let them get everything else sorted and then bring more instanced PvP content if desired
Even as someone excited for PvP I definitely agree
With soo much promised for ashes such as far as systems and content; How would you feel about some promised features not being available at launch, but added in future free base game updates. This is assuming it’s nothing major like naval content, an archetype, or nodes for example would be missing.
There’s obvious drawbacks to this as we’ve seen major developers neglect a game at release with a promise to fix it later (insert game example here). Games that just needed a little more time in the oven.
There’s also the consensus that so many of AOCs systems are interconnected and rely on one another by brilliant design.
However what if it was small systems such as combat pets as a rough example.
NOTE: This is not something I’m asking for or wanting, but felt it was a good topic of discussion as I feel that if AOC releases with even 75% of what it’s promised, it’ll be better than most (if not all) games on the market.
-Nyce
I think most of the systems have to be in there at release just due to the fact that they are all intertwined but there are may be some exceptions like the stock market.
I think if anything should be delayed until later it is regions of the world. The content creation from art to encounters to lore with take a lot of time and I would be perfectly fine starting in a smaller world that grows on 6 month schedules.
I love this and agree. Will make it feel like an expansion almost too even though it’s base game/just an update. The world is so huge too. And with estimated leveling time, we’ll probably be just barely scratching the surface before it’s added.
Societies like the thieves guild, scholars academy, and trading company possibly. We don’t know a ton about them so maybe they’re not interwoven into other systems, but they might be.
It is like " The ZOMBIE Event " in WoW - but sounds just many times cooler. This should be something that Players have much Control over,
so we can fill the World with "more Monsters" and hence, Content - by becoming Waves of Monsters ourselves and challenge all the Players who want to stay normal and do normal Stuff.
Why should for Example a " Siege " into a City/Node be done only by other Player-Races as well ? When we can be a very huge Group of for Example Hobgoblins, Gnolls, etc - and attack the City trying to wreck Havoc ?
If done Right, this can provide Content for Years and Years - and it would never get old.
It is like " The ZOMBIE Event " in WoW - but sounds just many times cooler. This should be something that Players have much Control over,
so we can fill the World with "more Monsters" and hence, Content - by becoming Waves of Monsters ourselves and challenge all the Players who want to stay normal and do normal Stuff.
Why should for Example a " Siege " into a City/Node be done only by other Player-Races as well ? When we can be a very huge Group of for Example Hobgoblins, Gnolls, etc - and attack the City trying to wreck Havoc ?
If done Right, this can provide Content for Years and Years - and it would never get old.
Yea the fact that node sieges could be seldom, the ‘npc sieges’ sound fun and promising
Comments
I was not saying it to push in any direction.
But we will see soon what happens and how Steven will balance the game.
I've been hardcore at PvE and PvP before WoW or FF14.
So I'm not sure what you mean, really I don't consider either of those titles hardcore.
That was a miscalculation. Maybe I shouldn't have used the word hardcore.
Now I have to face the players who love AoC and consider themselves hardcore
I meant to say that there are players who want just PvP (no 45 days leveling by PvE), and dislike corruption style game mechanics, if the penalties are that excessive that you can kill another player only if he agrees to flag himself as combatant.
And once they win, they get maybe very little. The opponent keeps a large part of the inventory, keeps the gold, his gear... Depending how corruption is balanced, the game can feel to PvE for some PvPers while many PvEers will find other things to complain about.
So the PvX will push away some PvPers and some PvEers.
The middle layer might be large or thin.
I think was larger years ago but now is thin. I hope I'm wrong and we will have at least 10 servers in each region to chose from, when the game is released.
Another thing I am curious is how the action combat will be mixed with the tab targeting and if both sides will be satisfied.
I love both because OWPvP is where iron sharpens iron. Battleground only cats aren’t hardcore to me, they’re safe players.
But I think people will find PvX enjoyable.
agreed
Be sure to check that out if you haven't already, folks! https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/56073/dev-discussion-54-in-game-content/p1
Totally agree.
Combat pets seem like they can be a mess both with screen clutter and balance. Hoping pets don’t actually add too much in terms of combat.
But I think going through the list it becomes clear that while these systems aren't directly making the game unplayable, they are critical when it comes to determining the quality of the game and it could be argued that many games failed or never really took off because they tried to release early with barely more than the
Agreed! Huge part of the game’s core
I figured this would be great for the team especially in terms of project management, content prioritization, timelines, and feedback 😄 I just know it’s perhaps something devs couldn’t ask without sending people into a panic so I figured I would lol.
And combat pets would nullify classes that have this as a feature or core function. Also, I do not want combat pets to become mandatory as was stated in the AMA. Not to mention the amount of clutter that this will add to large battles.
I too am confident, Players will be very busy at Land first. Like : if Naval Combat comes only into the Game like half or full a Year after Release, i wouldn't find it so bad.
But as someone who has watched for years as people have tried to get my favorite part of the game cut or diminished, I don't believe in calling for cuts or delays of anything. At least not until I've seen Intrepid's full vision and implementation of any given thing. Some of these things I listed that I don't find very important, other people might view as far more important.
That the Nodes can look different in cultural/racial Infrastructure isn't bad at all. That is very refreshing.
... ... ... but what the Hell is "Monster Coin" ? Please dear Gods, don't let it be something like the WoW-Token right away. ^.^;" * cringes just at the thought of it *
Exactly, most MMORPG PvP players have been in limbo for awhile now waiting for something to play with OWPVP.
PvE/leveling aspect of the game wont deter them either since there use to needing to do all that to pvp anyway
PvE = Content for more PvP orinated players too if no one in the world doing thing there less PvP to be had aswell
The intended meaning, here, are the extreme ends of the PvP/PvE spectrum.
It's a shop item, let's you rampage as a monster.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Monster_coins
I think most of the systems have to be in there at release just due to the fact that they are all intertwined but there are may be some exceptions like the stock market.
I think if anything should be delayed until later it is regions of the world. The content creation from art to encounters to lore with take a lot of time and I would be perfectly fine starting in a smaller world that grows on 6 month schedules.
I love this and agree. Will make it feel like an expansion almost too even though it’s base game/just an update. The world is so huge too. And with estimated leveling time, we’ll probably be just barely scratching the surface before it’s added.
Read through all of it : and love it already.
It is like " The ZOMBIE Event " in WoW - but sounds just many times cooler. This should be something that Players have much Control over,
so we can fill the World with "more Monsters" and hence, Content - by becoming Waves of Monsters ourselves and challenge all the Players who want to stay normal and do normal Stuff.
Why should for Example a " Siege " into a City/Node be done only by other Player-Races as well ? When we can be a very huge Group of for Example Hobgoblins, Gnolls, etc - and attack the City trying to wreck Havoc ?
If done Right, this can provide Content for Years and Years - and it would never get old.
Yea the fact that node sieges could be seldom, the ‘npc sieges’ sound fun and promising