As a PvE first player, what makes you look forward to PvE in AoC or what was the defining feature that you're looking forward to?
The current me identifies as a PvEvP player but I hope my post is also welcome.
I hope to see what no other MMO could which is the rise and development of whole locations at the hand of the playing community inside of the game.
That is very much something I have never seen anywhere. With comparable scenario's being cute, tiny and laughable in comparisation.
I have no expectations for PvP or PvE. It will feel "okay" which I'm pretty sure about.
No my greatest hope is that Intrepit manages to not just give us the ability to rise up nodes with whatever restrictions come with it...
... but also to make the whole ordeal not feel like someone is an idiot for participating in it.
I hope that about 90% of the playerbase will not come to a realization at some point, that they can quit the game or be just "mobs with an irl body" for the current no-lifers.
And only the no-lifers will ever decide who owns a node and which nodes will be developed the highest... somehow also coupled with the highest leveled nodes being in the hands of the no-lifer guilds who make sure that about 90% of the playerbase can never get some kind of rewards & items of comparable levels.
The last thing that I need is a cringe "Overlord - the MMO"
with most players quitting the game cause they are not the "maincharacters".
My feelings are conflicted as hell currently. I want the game to suceed very badly but at the same time I fear it will just refuse to be realistic when it comes to be attractive for the most important part of the playerbase.
Which is the broad middle right between absolute no-life sweat and just a lighthearted casual.
I've got no idea what the average AoC player will want to see and experience for themself in the game.
But whatever that is: I hope it will not be gatekept to death by the nolifers, possibly in every aspect.
In short... people must feel like their presence in a game matters.
I feel most people quit because they just... feel stupid.
And that their time is not respected.
For me that would be the feeling of not being able to join a group of people that can do what I aspire.
Which is to hold any node that they care about, or develop their nodes as everyone aspires.
And this somehow being tied to the presence of sweats on the servers whos irl-less levels are of such insane proportions that we know, we might as well go to another server or quit the game entirely.
This will happen! Not necessarily to me, but to many.
I would rather see the game "cater" too much to everyone than to just a few elitist few.
Ironically the complete opposite of what I enjoyed in WoW Vanilla back in the day.
Now I am older though and I just know I won't be able to put as much time in AoC anymore as I would 20 years ago for example.
Which I worry is also the case for most other MMO enjoyers today.
Younger people tend to go console or mobile.
Knowing your audience is an important for success.
1.) So... I wanna be able to develop and hold the nodes me and my guild will be interested in.
2.) And in whatever other aspects of the game, I hope that the broad mass of players can also rise to the top somehow by whatever unfair advantage is necessary against elitists.
So that there won't be a sudden and horrible exodus of players in the game after most of them have realized AoC is not "their" game after all and they are not interested to be NPC's and mobs in the no-lifers game.
Since this thread has different focus i can explain other elements.
First there is no reason why people that have better skills, comms, organization, gear, levels, players wouldn't win a fight against people that are more casual. This is just the nature of when you have pvp in games mixed with how mmorpgs are with progression. Do to AoC having a estimated 45 day levleing, gear, and enhancing gear (most likely rng enchanting which heavily pushes things towards people throwing time). There is going to be a larger gap between different elements of players. You might not like to hear this but its just the truth, you shouldn't view you should beat these people imo (doesn't mean you can't have fun challenging them). Imo though its good to have different levels of players so if you do beat one or if one with with you it can adda certain kind of feeling.
Though personally I don't think this is too much of a big worry, do to how AoC is doing things having kingdoms. Since there isn't in fighting between nodes as you can NOT attack a node that is vassal to your parent its going to be like various kingdoms around the map. So though you will be fighting try hards, you will also have try hards to call upon and fight with you as well at times, or other various nodes to get help from if you have good connections with your vassals. When people are more coaxed to work together that happening will be a lot more easy since nodes aren't all free for all and can just attack all nodes around them. Making it so even if a try hard guild is near your node, you don't need a worry about them attacking you meaning less conflict that might push you away.
Another element that can be added to try to prevent people from war logging every war or trying with superior skills being able to easily attack every node not part of their kingdom. Is has nodes have different tiers you can have fights more focused on even tiers or punching up towards a higher tier node. Allowing fights to be a bit more even and competitive so different strengths of nodes and player types have chances to do wars and such. There would easily be able to have various ways to limit who many wars a person does, how many people they can take as mercs and other limits.
It really shouldn't be fully viewed as this guild is decing a node, but a node decing another node imo since that makes the most sense (even though the guild would have got the resources to dec it and such for a siege).
To cap this off I really think people need to stop thinking they need to have weird elements to beat "elitist" players as its really not that simple. IF you are advocating to make them game more "casual" than you need to look at certain systems of progression and convince the devs to reduce the difficulty of them so there is less gear gap and less time to progress. (ie shorter leveling, easier gear acquisition, more simple systems, etc,. Not that im for any of that stuff cause im more on the hardcore side). Even if everything was made to be easier i still don't see hardcore guilds losing btw, as skill and communication is very powerful and casuals aren't going to have that compared to hardcore players. Hence why i say have different tiers of fights to reduce the element of more skilled players being at every fight.
I hope Ashes will keep it's Promise not to have PvP-Addons installable.
It also made People into "Kings" who are just the sweattiest Sweatlords that usually Nobody wants to know. I agree with that Comment of Dripyula. I do not want "Overlord the MMO". Enough of that stuff.
While others fear exactly that,
(others who usually also don't to know any of us, lol)
this is why i hope for the HUUUGE MASSES of Casuals shaping and deciding the Fate of the Server and not just one or a few Elitist-Mindset Guilds with No-Lifer Workaholic Affectations and who live more in the Game than in Reallife.
I hope Ashes will keep it's Promise not to have PvP-Addons installable.
It also made People into "Kings" who are just the sweattiest Sweatlords that usually Nobody wants to know. I agree with that Comment of Dripyula. I do not want "Overlord the MMO". Enough of that stuff.
While others fear exactly that,
(others who usually also don't to know any of us, lol)
this is why i hope for the HUUUGE MASSES of Casuals shaping and deciding the Fate of the Server and not just one or a few Elitist-Mindset Guilds with No-Lifer Workaholic Affectations and who live more in the Game than in Reallife.
what makes one group better than the other, morally?
and don't you think if someone plays 24/7 they should be rewarded accordingly?
id say because of ashes direction in crafting and gearing up, it would be more beneficial for the game in general to have hardcore players over casuals. imagine every single freehold player is a casual and never refines anything or tends to his stuff..no one would ever geat gear lol
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
What about being a "casual" prevents that player from refining anything or tending to their stuff??
What about being a "casual" prevents that player from refining anything or tending to their stuff??
well, you know in other games you can just queue your refines, upgrades, etc. in aoc you have tend to your workstations (the furnace gets too hot, you need to cool it down before you can keep using it, etc). you cant just log in, queue everything then log off and come back next week.
imagine if all freehold owners only logged in 1-2 hours a week to play, as opposed to someone who logs in every day and tends to their freehold. that player would only be outputting, lets say 100 iron ingots a week, and a sword needs 10000 (and the whole server needs swords + armor). a dedicated player could be outputting 1000 iron ingots per day helping everybody gear up. no gear = cant do content.
also, how would people even find a party to do stuff. so usually during weekday mornings, its hard to find a party to do anything because most people are at work. easier to do solo quests though since less competition. you yourself mentioned that if you cant complete a quest because there are too many people doing the quest, you can complete it during low pop hours.
imagine if everyone was a casual, there would be low pop hours 24/7. people wont be able to party up to get stuff done and shape the world (since you need a party for that). only the very few who are hardcore would progress since you need a party to progress in aoc. everybody else would progress way too slowly, thus making them unable to compete with the very few hardcore players, who will end up shaping the world (because you cant stop them), making aszkalon desire unatainable.
eventually, those who are a bit less casual would end up becoming the "elite" anyways. they would be outputting a little bit more and become a bit better known and will get all the money.
In my experience, players who only play in PvE leave the game as soon as they ride all the slides. Then they start a terrible toxic that the developers have abandoned them and they have nothing to do in the game. While PvX players continue to come to the game for the pleasure of fighting, sieges, looting, and sabotage, which allows the game to live and earn money.
In my experience, players who only play in PvE leave the game as soon as they ride all the slides. Then they start a terrible toxic that the developers have abandoned them and they have nothing to do in the game. While PvX players continue to come to the game for the pleasure of fighting, sieges, looting, and sabotage, which allows the game to live and earn money.
Depends.
PvEers tend to leave once all the quests are finished. Especially once all the Gear has been collected from Dungeons and Raids.
Especially, RPG players.
These days... it's fun to return for Battlepass Achivements.
And yeah, PvPers tend to not care about the RPG elements in MMORPGs and primarily care about fighting each other.
In my experience, players who only play in PvE leave the game as soon as they ride all the slides. Then they start a terrible toxic that the developers have abandoned them and they have nothing to do in the game. While PvX players continue to come to the game for the pleasure of fighting, sieges, looting, and sabotage, which allows the game to live and earn money.
Depends.
PvEers tend to leave once all the quests are finished. Especially once all the Gear has been collected from Dungeons and Raids.
Especially, RPG players.
These days... it's fun to return for Battlepass Achivements.
And yeah, PvPers tend to not care about the RPG elements in MMORPGs and primarily care about fighting each other.
Yes, and that makes PvE players so hard to satisfy. They need constantly new content.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
well, you know in other games you can just queue your refines, upgrades, etc. in aoc you have tend to your workstations (the furnace gets too hot, you need to cool it down before you can keep using it, etc). you cant just log in, queue everything then log off and come back next week.
I have no clue which MMORPGs you are referring to where you just queue the Crafting Stations.
Nor am I aware of Casual players who queue everything and return the next week.
imagine if all freehold owners only logged in 1-2 hours a week to play, as opposed to someone who logs in every day and tends to their freehold. that player would only be outputting, lets say 100 iron ingots a week, and a sword needs 10000 (and the whole server needs swords + armor). a dedicated player could be outputting 1000 iron ingots per day helping everybody gear up. no gear = cant do content.
also, how would people even find a party to do stuff. so usually during weekday mornings, its hard to find a party to do anything because most people are at work. easier to do solo quests though since less competition. you yourself mentioned that if you cant complete a quest because there are too many people doing the quest, you can complete it during low pop hours.
Easy enough to find other players in your Node who play at the same time - especially because a lot of the Housing is Open World.
There is nothing preventing Casual-Time players from partying with Hardcore-Time players.
And... Casual-Time players may already be members of a multi-game community.
imagine if everyone was a casual, there would be low pop hours 24/7. people wont be able to party up to get stuff done and shape the world (since you need a party for that). only the very few who are hardcore would progress since you need a party to progress in aoc. everybody else would progress way too slowly, thus making them unable to compete with the very few hardcore players, who will end up shaping the world (because you cant stop them), making aszkalon desire unatainable.
That is a fallacious use reductio ad absurdum.
eventually, those who are a bit less casual would end up becoming the "elite" anyways. they would be outputting a little bit more and become a bit better known and will get all the money.
Casual-Time players can be very well-known.
Casual-Time players probably would not be striving to be "elite" nor obtain "all the money".
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
And yeah, PvPers tend to not care about the RPG elements in MMORPGs and primarily care about fighting each other.
Yawn. "Anyone who doesn't like the same things I like isn't a real RPG player".
We are all creating and playing characters, a certain amount of RPG is baked into the game itself.
And who are you to decide how we play those characters?
Especially in a game/world all about conflict, trade, resources... competition (much like the real world, btw).
The completely undeserved sense of superiority is painful to witness.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited April 23
I mean, there are plenty of recent threads where the PvPers say that MMORPGs are boring without PvP to make them interesting.
Just because RPG is baked into the game does not mean that PvPers care much about the RPG aspects of the game.
Especially those PvPers who say that PvP makes MMORPGs interesting.
What does the real world have to do with Fantasy RPGs?
We agree! Your completely undeserved sense of superiority is painful to experience.
Just because RPG is baked into the game does not mean that PvPers care much about the RPG aspects of the game.
Especially those PvPers who say that PvP makes MMORPGs interesting.
As many, many others have explained, whether they be PvE or PvP leaning.. the element of danger, competition and unpredictability that PvP brings makes the world feel alive.
This is something that the vast majority appear to agree on.
The vast majority also agrees that straight up griefing is bad, so here we are thinking and working on ways to solve this situation.
Most of us aren't here to simply "tell stories" verbally, you don't need a multi-million dollar MMO to do that.
well, you know in other games you can just queue your refines, upgrades, etc. in aoc you have tend to your workstations (the furnace gets too hot, you need to cool it down before you can keep using it, etc). you cant just log in, queue everything then log off and come back next week.
I have no clue which MMORPGs you are referring to where you just queue the Crafting Stations.
Nor am I aware of Casual players who queue everything and return the next week.
imagine if all freehold owners only logged in 1-2 hours a week to play, as opposed to someone who logs in every day and tends to their freehold. that player would only be outputting, lets say 100 iron ingots a week, and a sword needs 10000 (and the whole server needs swords + armor). a dedicated player could be outputting 1000 iron ingots per day helping everybody gear up. no gear = cant do content.
also, how would people even find a party to do stuff. so usually during weekday mornings, its hard to find a party to do anything because most people are at work. easier to do solo quests though since less competition. you yourself mentioned that if you cant complete a quest because there are too many people doing the quest, you can complete it during low pop hours.
Easy enough to find other players in your Node who play at the same time - especially because a lot of the Housing is Open World.
There is nothing preventing Casual-Time players from partying with Hardcore-Time players.
And... Casual-Time players may already be members of a multi-game community.
imagine if everyone was a casual, there would be low pop hours 24/7. people wont be able to party up to get stuff done and shape the world (since you need a party for that). only the very few who are hardcore would progress since you need a party to progress in aoc. everybody else would progress way too slowly, thus making them unable to compete with the very few hardcore players, who will end up shaping the world (because you cant stop them), making aszkalon desire unatainable.
That is a fallacious use reductio ad absurdum.
eventually, those who are a bit less casual would end up becoming the "elite" anyways. they would be outputting a little bit more and become a bit better known and will get all the money.
Casual-Time players can be very well-known.
Casual-Time players probably would not be striving to be "elite" nor obtain "all the money".
dygz, who produces more iron ingots, a guy playing 15 hours a day focused on his freehold production, or a guy playing 1 hour every 3 days. how is what I said a fallacy? the numbers were made up though.
I mean, there are plenty of recent threads where the PvPers say that MMORPGs are boring without PvP to make them interesting.
Just because RPG is baked into the game does not mean that PvPers care much about the RPG aspects of the game.
Especially those PvPers who say that PvP makes MMORPGs interesting.
What does the real world have to do with Fantasy RPGs?
We agree! Your completely undeserved sense of superiority is painful to experience.
I like pvp more than pve, even though I enjoy pve, what makes you think pvpers don't care about the RPG elements? we deeply care about character development and progression, how we build our char, stat points,s kill points, etc. that's a core RPG element. you have to choice to build your character.
if you are talking about roleplaying and acting as if the game was real life, changing your voice, speech, etc.(please specify) no, we don't care too much about that, unless you are an UO pvper I guess.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
As many, many others have explained, whether they be PvE or PvP leaning.. the element of danger, competition and unpredictability that PvP brings makes the world feel alive.
Right.
As I said, PvPers claim that the RPG elements of a PVE MMORPG do not provide sufficient sense of danger, competition and unpredictability to make the games feel alive.
PvP does that.
dygz, who produces more iron ingots, a guy playing 15 hours a day focused on his freehold production, or a guy playing 1 hour every 3 days. how is what I said a fallacy? the numbers were made up though.
Who produces more is irrelevant.
The fallacy is the argument - “what if everyone did that?”
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I like pvp more than pve, even though I enjoy pve, what makes you think pvpers don't care about the RPG elements? we deeply care about character development and progression, how we build our char, stat points,s kill points, etc. that's a core RPG element. you have to choice to build your character.
You may deeply care. And some others might as well.
I did not use the qualifier “all”. I also did not use the qualifier “most”.
if you are talking about roleplaying and acting as if the game was real life, changing your voice, speech, etc.(please specify) no, we don't care too much about that, unless you are an UO pvper I guess.
I’m talking about PvPers on the Ashes Forums claiming that PvP is what makes MMORPGs interesting. Some even claim that PvE is boring without PvP.
you cant just log in, queue everything then log off and come back next week.
What games are you referring to here?
I can't tell if this is just hyperbole or not. If it isn't I'd like to know the game so I can look in to it and get an understanding for how/why this is a thing. If it is just hyperbole, then I feel I should say that if you can't make your point without hyperbole, you can't make it with hyperbole either.
Using it in an argument essentially renders your argument null and void, as even the person making the argument can't make an argument for what they are arguing.
I like pvp more than pve, even though I enjoy pve, what makes you think pvpers don't care about the RPG elements? we deeply care about character development and progression, how we build our char, stat points,s kill points, etc. that's a core RPG element. you have to choice to build your character.
You may deeply care. And some others might as well.
I did not use the qualifier “all”. I also did not use the qualifier “most”.
if you are talking about roleplaying and acting as if the game was real life, changing your voice, speech, etc.(please specify) no, we don't care too much about that, unless you are an UO pvper I guess.
I’m talking about PvPers on the Ashes Forums claiming that PvP is what makes MMORPGs interesting. Some even claim that PvE is boring without PvP.
well, if I say dogs wiggle their tail, I didn't ay all or most, but its inferred. if you were talking about aoc pvpers in the forums, maybe specify? cant read ur mind T_T
you cant just log in, queue everything then log off and come back next week.
What games are you referring to here?
I can't tell if this is just hyperbole or not. If it isn't I'd like to know the game so I can look in to it and get an understanding for how/why this is a thing. If it is just hyperbole, then I feel I should say that if you can't make your point without hyperbole, you can't make it with hyperbole either.
Using it in an argument essentially renders your argument null and void, as even the person making the argument can't make an argument for what they are arguing.
not every game has instant crafting. lost ark is an example.and if I remember correctly, you could queue up some upgrades and stuff in skyforge (although that didn't really have an impact on other players).
as far as I know, processing wont be instant in aoc. you need to develop your stations, you need to spend time processing and also tending to said stations (overheated furnace, gather your crops, etc). maybe you wont be queuing up things in aoc, but imagine if everyone was a casual and you just let your crops there for a week without picking them up and restarting them, or don't refine things, etc.
not every game has instant crafting. lost ark is an example.and if I remember correctly, you could queue up some upgrades and stuff in skyforge (although that didn't really have an impact on other players).
Could you log off though?
Also, a casual player is unlikely to leave crops for a full week - a day or two at most.
dygz, who produces more iron ingots, a guy playing 15 hours a day focused on his freehold production, or a guy playing 1 hour every 3 days. how is what I said a fallacy? the numbers were made up though.
Who produces more is irrelevant.
The fallacy is the argument - “what if everyone did that?”
I was making a point on why hardcore players are better for the game than casuals...
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
well, if I say dogs wiggle their tail, I didn't say all or most, but its inferred. if you were talking about aoc pvpers in the forums, maybe specify? cant read ur mind T_T
That is poor logic. All should not be inferred.
Also, I could actually pull some quotes from these Forums regarding whom I’m referring to.
You just made stuff up about “Casuals” that doesn’t come close to how Casuals actually play - especially not any Casuals in these Forums that I’m aware of.
dygz, who produces more iron ingots, a guy playing 15 hours a day focused on his freehold production, or a guy playing 1 hour every 3 days. how is what I said a fallacy? the numbers were made up though.
Who produces more is irrelevant.
The fallacy is the argument - “what if everyone did that?”
I was making a point on why hardcore players are better for the game than casuals...
As Dygz kind of said, as a general point, this is absolutely true. The arguments you are making to support/justify it are not.
what do you prefer, every freehold owner to play 1-2 hours a week, or 10-15 hours a day?
how can people gear up faster and do more content (since you need the gear for it) by having freehold owners who play 1-2 hours a week, or 10-15 hours a day?
what do you prefer, every freehold owner to play 1-2 hours a week, or 10-15 hours a day?
how can people gear up faster and do more content (since you need the gear for it) by having freehold owners who play 1-2 hours a week, or 10-15 hours a day?
You are truly the poster child for Reductio Ad Absurdum.
I prefer for a normal amount of people to spend a normal amount of time on Freeholds.
Comments
Since this thread has different focus i can explain other elements.
First there is no reason why people that have better skills, comms, organization, gear, levels, players wouldn't win a fight against people that are more casual. This is just the nature of when you have pvp in games mixed with how mmorpgs are with progression. Do to AoC having a estimated 45 day levleing, gear, and enhancing gear (most likely rng enchanting which heavily pushes things towards people throwing time). There is going to be a larger gap between different elements of players. You might not like to hear this but its just the truth, you shouldn't view you should beat these people imo (doesn't mean you can't have fun challenging them). Imo though its good to have different levels of players so if you do beat one or if one with with you it can adda certain kind of feeling.
Though personally I don't think this is too much of a big worry, do to how AoC is doing things having kingdoms. Since there isn't in fighting between nodes as you can NOT attack a node that is vassal to your parent its going to be like various kingdoms around the map. So though you will be fighting try hards, you will also have try hards to call upon and fight with you as well at times, or other various nodes to get help from if you have good connections with your vassals. When people are more coaxed to work together that happening will be a lot more easy since nodes aren't all free for all and can just attack all nodes around them. Making it so even if a try hard guild is near your node, you don't need a worry about them attacking you meaning less conflict that might push you away.
Another element that can be added to try to prevent people from war logging every war or trying with superior skills being able to easily attack every node not part of their kingdom. Is has nodes have different tiers you can have fights more focused on even tiers or punching up towards a higher tier node. Allowing fights to be a bit more even and competitive so different strengths of nodes and player types have chances to do wars and such. There would easily be able to have various ways to limit who many wars a person does, how many people they can take as mercs and other limits.
It really shouldn't be fully viewed as this guild is decing a node, but a node decing another node imo since that makes the most sense (even though the guild would have got the resources to dec it and such for a siege).
To cap this off I really think people need to stop thinking they need to have weird elements to beat "elitist" players as its really not that simple. IF you are advocating to make them game more "casual" than you need to look at certain systems of progression and convince the devs to reduce the difficulty of them so there is less gear gap and less time to progress. (ie shorter leveling, easier gear acquisition, more simple systems, etc,. Not that im for any of that stuff cause im more on the hardcore side). Even if everything was made to be easier i still don't see hardcore guilds losing btw, as skill and communication is very powerful and casuals aren't going to have that compared to hardcore players. Hence why i say have different tiers of fights to reduce the element of more skilled players being at every fight.
It also made People into "Kings" who are just the sweattiest Sweatlords that usually Nobody wants to know. I agree with that Comment of Dripyula. I do not want "Overlord the MMO". Enough of that stuff.
While others fear exactly that,
(others who usually also don't to know any of us, lol)
this is why i hope for the HUUUGE MASSES of Casuals shaping and deciding the Fate of the Server and not just one or a few Elitist-Mindset Guilds with No-Lifer Workaholic Affectations and who live more in the Game than in Reallife.
what makes one group better than the other, morally?
and don't you think if someone plays 24/7 they should be rewarded accordingly?
id say because of ashes direction in crafting and gearing up, it would be more beneficial for the game in general to have hardcore players over casuals. imagine every single freehold player is a casual and never refines anything or tends to his stuff..no one would ever geat gear lol
well, you know in other games you can just queue your refines, upgrades, etc. in aoc you have tend to your workstations (the furnace gets too hot, you need to cool it down before you can keep using it, etc). you cant just log in, queue everything then log off and come back next week.
imagine if all freehold owners only logged in 1-2 hours a week to play, as opposed to someone who logs in every day and tends to their freehold. that player would only be outputting, lets say 100 iron ingots a week, and a sword needs 10000 (and the whole server needs swords + armor). a dedicated player could be outputting 1000 iron ingots per day helping everybody gear up. no gear = cant do content.
also, how would people even find a party to do stuff. so usually during weekday mornings, its hard to find a party to do anything because most people are at work. easier to do solo quests though since less competition. you yourself mentioned that if you cant complete a quest because there are too many people doing the quest, you can complete it during low pop hours.
imagine if everyone was a casual, there would be low pop hours 24/7. people wont be able to party up to get stuff done and shape the world (since you need a party for that). only the very few who are hardcore would progress since you need a party to progress in aoc. everybody else would progress way too slowly, thus making them unable to compete with the very few hardcore players, who will end up shaping the world (because you cant stop them), making aszkalon desire unatainable.
eventually, those who are a bit less casual would end up becoming the "elite" anyways. they would be outputting a little bit more and become a bit better known and will get all the money.
Of Course those who play longer, should have more ingame than those who play in shorter Intervals.
PvEers tend to leave once all the quests are finished. Especially once all the Gear has been collected from Dungeons and Raids.
Especially, RPG players.
These days... it's fun to return for Battlepass Achivements.
And yeah, PvPers tend to not care about the RPG elements in MMORPGs and primarily care about fighting each other.
Yes, and that makes PvE players so hard to satisfy. They need constantly new content.
Nor am I aware of Casual players who queue everything and return the next week.
That is a fallacious use reductio ad absurdum.
Easy enough to find other players in your Node who play at the same time - especially because a lot of the Housing is Open World.
There is nothing preventing Casual-Time players from partying with Hardcore-Time players.
And... Casual-Time players may already be members of a multi-game community.
Casual-Time players can be very well-known.
Casual-Time players probably would not be striving to be "elite" nor obtain "all the money".
Battlepasses are fun.
Yawn. "Anyone who doesn't like the same things I like isn't a real RPG player".
We are all creating and playing characters, a certain amount of RPG is baked into the game itself.
And who are you to decide how we play those characters?
Especially in a game/world all about conflict, trade, resources... competition (much like the real world, btw).
The completely undeserved sense of superiority is painful to witness.
Just because RPG is baked into the game does not mean that PvPers care much about the RPG aspects of the game.
Especially those PvPers who say that PvP makes MMORPGs interesting.
What does the real world have to do with Fantasy RPGs?
We agree! Your completely undeserved sense of superiority is painful to experience.
This is another level of absurd even for you @Dygz.
As many, many others have explained, whether they be PvE or PvP leaning.. the element of danger, competition and unpredictability that PvP brings makes the world feel alive.
This is something that the vast majority appear to agree on.
The vast majority also agrees that straight up griefing is bad, so here we are thinking and working on ways to solve this situation.
Most of us aren't here to simply "tell stories" verbally, you don't need a multi-million dollar MMO to do that.
dygz, who produces more iron ingots, a guy playing 15 hours a day focused on his freehold production, or a guy playing 1 hour every 3 days. how is what I said a fallacy? the numbers were made up though.
I like pvp more than pve, even though I enjoy pve, what makes you think pvpers don't care about the RPG elements? we deeply care about character development and progression, how we build our char, stat points,s kill points, etc. that's a core RPG element. you have to choice to build your character.
if you are talking about roleplaying and acting as if the game was real life, changing your voice, speech, etc.(please specify) no, we don't care too much about that, unless you are an UO pvper I guess.
As I said, PvPers claim that the RPG elements of a PVE MMORPG do not provide sufficient sense of danger, competition and unpredictability to make the games feel alive.
PvP does that.
The vast amount of PvPers agree on that.
We agree.
PvEers don’t require PvP to feel a sense of danger and competition, or even unpredictability, from PvE.
You are the only person I’ve seen mention “telling stories verbally” in this topic.
The fallacy is the argument - “what if everyone did that?”
I did not use the qualifier “all”. I also did not use the qualifier “most”.
I’m talking about PvPers on the Ashes Forums claiming that PvP is what makes MMORPGs interesting. Some even claim that PvE is boring without PvP.
I can't tell if this is just hyperbole or not. If it isn't I'd like to know the game so I can look in to it and get an understanding for how/why this is a thing. If it is just hyperbole, then I feel I should say that if you can't make your point without hyperbole, you can't make it with hyperbole either.
Using it in an argument essentially renders your argument null and void, as even the person making the argument can't make an argument for what they are arguing.
well, if I say dogs wiggle their tail, I didn't ay all or most, but its inferred. if you were talking about aoc pvpers in the forums, maybe specify? cant read ur mind T_T
not every game has instant crafting. lost ark is an example.and if I remember correctly, you could queue up some upgrades and stuff in skyforge (although that didn't really have an impact on other players).
as far as I know, processing wont be instant in aoc. you need to develop your stations, you need to spend time processing and also tending to said stations (overheated furnace, gather your crops, etc). maybe you wont be queuing up things in aoc, but imagine if everyone was a casual and you just let your crops there for a week without picking them up and restarting them, or don't refine things, etc.
Also, a casual player is unlikely to leave crops for a full week - a day or two at most.
I was making a point on why hardcore players are better for the game than casuals...
Also, I could actually pull some quotes from these Forums regarding whom I’m referring to.
You just made stuff up about “Casuals” that doesn’t come close to how Casuals actually play - especially not any Casuals in these Forums that I’m aware of.
As Dygz kind of said, as a general point, this is absolutely true. The arguments you are making to support/justify it are not.
answer these 2 question please, both of you.
what do you prefer, every freehold owner to play 1-2 hours a week, or 10-15 hours a day?
how can people gear up faster and do more content (since you need the gear for it) by having freehold owners who play 1-2 hours a week, or 10-15 hours a day?
You are truly the poster child for Reductio Ad Absurdum.
I prefer for a normal amount of people to spend a normal amount of time on Freeholds.
Maybe they should follow a Pareto Distribution?