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Rogue stealth/invisibility. How would you design it?
Settite
Member
Basically the title. I hear alot of mmo players aren't too fond of true invisibility/stealth. Thoughts?
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Assuming people don't want full stealth.
In my experience the 'distortion' type stealth doesn't work well enough because of how human vision works, but hiding the upper body changes the shape of the thing the mind is reacting to, which seems to have some effect.
And the permanent should be visible when close
The only change I would make is to force specification into stealth to make it harder to detect (e.g. full invis). Low spec stealth would be much easier to see and shoot.
Makes it a cat and mouse game.
->Rogue has to keep his distance if he wants to remain uncovered.
->Opponents have move around in unexpected patterns or use mobility to uncover the rogue.
Maybe even add an indicator for the 3-7 meters range, that tells the opponent a rogue is close by.
That sounds interesting. Do any games currently implement it in this way? I'd imagine it'd work well in places with more ground clutter but less so in a desert.
I agree in this regard. I come from eso primarily and I personally didn't have any complaints with it.
I'd like the ability to hard spec into invis. Obviously you'd take losses in other aspects to make it fair.
Im ready for a game without full invisibility. I actually like the distortion mechanic Intrepid is using and look forward to testing it.
Its a refreshing change from total invisibility. Classes using this kind of distortion have to still be concerned about detection, as they should be.
Should mobs have high perception?
I would prefer also ability to change weather, cast fog, darkness...
And to have illusion spells and clones.
My issue with distortion is once the game has been out for a bit it will no longer be difficult to notice. I believe the average player would get use to it very quickly. I believe distortion is fine for the ranger but personally I think full invisibility should live within the rogue.
Man something like mordekaiser's ult would be fantastic. Hopefully we end up having ultimates in ashes.
I suppose the problem is with players moving around freely with no possible way to detect.
If movement created distortion, that would probably be fine
overall i agree
It’s not really decreased risk if people can build their Characters to detect Stealth.
Which should be the case in any decent RPG.
People can build their toons to stack resistance but the risk to the toon remains. Full stealth is a cheese mechanic which I've used to perfection on old ganking toons. Your theory doesn't apply in a few games where your theory could apply either. Namely, you can detect invisible entities but the range is very limited. Thus, Rangers at full range with full stealth is the perfect cheese class in a risk/reward system.
Would you provide this option to all classes (with appropriate tradeoffs) or just some classes?
Why? How would this be different from a non-stealthed ranger at full range? They’ll break stealth as soon as the first attack is made. Especially with a calibrated TTK for 30-60s?
I thought I'd heard the ttk has been reduced to 6 seconds...anyway, you can cheese the tactic at very low level and kill a lot of targets before targets can respond. When there is a pack of rangers with full stealth you can drift in and out of conflict with very high precision and gain very high produce.
6s TTK for avg mobs, not players.
I’m still not following how this is a cheese tactic. You’re in stealth, you attack target 1 in a group of 3, target 1 dead, you’re still totally visible with two targets closing fast. You can’t restealth until out of combat. Where’s the cheese?
Also, when there is a pack of any class, they will coordinate attacks to take down other players, that’s not cheesing gameplay that’s just open world pvp gameplay.
Can you help me understand your concern? 🧐
As a lifetime rogue player, I completely agree. I love stealth games and would prefer if stealth was stronger at night and if the environment affected it. Nighttime should feel more dangerous and full stealth in broad daylight feels unintuitive.
My theory applies to RPGs.
Your theory applies to PvP games.
Rangers with high Perception and high Tracking should be able to detect even Rangers with high Dex and high Stealth.
They should also be able to Mark those they have detected.
Poorly designed RPGs will not have mechanics for that.
Also Ashes is supposed to be balanced for an 8-person group with one of each Primary Archetype. If there are 2 Primary Archetypes with Stealth, I would expect there might be two Primary Archetypes that can detect Stealth.
But also, high Wisdom/Perception should be able to counter high Dex/Stealth.
So, stats are also a factor.
And then we’d have to see what Augment Schools might offer. So maybe detect Stealth is also available via Social Orgs/Thieves Guild.
(I think the 6 second TTK is for the average solo mob.)
So should the Rogue have to build for stealth and account for terrain, or should all other classes have to build and equip for detection?