KeggerMember, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
PVE: be mindful of people farming mobs with AoEs (or range) and avoiding damage. Figure out a way to make sure mobs do not give credit/loot/xp if they are unable to attack their aggressor.
PVP: Please restrict beneficial AoEs to players who are GROUPED.
Similarly, damage AoE should hit ALL pvp engaged targets (not grouped) unless specifically designed to hit a limited number of targets.
AoE abilities should not be “smart” and ignore allies/guildmates who are part of the zerg but not part of the group.
Good AoE design can be an antizerg mechanic and allow smaller, more organized, groups to “punch up”.
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lupehMember, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
as a warhammer online player on return of reckoning and a vanilla wow player i think these games did it the best. especially warhammer online as you have mass pvp battles its visible with the animations but for yourself it has some extra effect in it.
this way you can see what skill they use but its not overwhelming that you can not see whats going on in the world amymore.
i think that every class should have atleast like 1 aoe while some classes shine with aoe.
in warhammer online guilds and pugs roam the rvr zone that has a couple of battlefield objectives i suppose somewhat the same as nodes but a way smaller degree as its just a flag you capture like arathi basin in wow.
each guild or pug can have up to 40 memebers in it and they fight for the bo and aoe is really good for this but again its animations shouldnt block the screen but be visible
AoE in PvP (Player vs. Player):
- Players should be visually notified when they are being targeted by an AoE ability.
- Visual cues help players avoid or counter AoEs using defensive abilities or utilities.
Clarity of AoEs for Enemy and Friendly Players:
- For enemies: AoEs should be clear enough to allow skilled players the chance to avoid or counter the ability.
- For allies: AoEs should be clear for friendly players to coordinate, stack abilities, or focus damage on an area or enemy.
- Balance: Visual effects should be clear but not overwhelming, avoiding too many distracting flashes or lighting effects that impair vision.
AoE in PvE (Player vs. Environment):
- Similar principles of clarity likely apply.
Examples from Other Games:
- Some games allow settings to toggle AoE visibility for players or enemies, especially in large battles (e.g., 100v100).
- The option to adjust or turn off spell effects for better visual clarity is valued in high-intensity combat scenarios.
Key Points:
- Visual telegraphing is essential for skill-based combat.
- Clarity is crucial for both enemy and ally coordination.
- Optional settings to control AoE visibility are appreciated in large-scale battles or raids.
This is based on my own opinion I just hope the game will be great and will have its own take or spin on things but also keep things relevant. Really looking forwards to playing and I’m sure it will be a success 🙏🏼
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KrystalKittenMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
Area of Effect (AoE) abilities are a common staple in MMORPG combat. We’re curious to know what your thoughts are on AoE abilities and the way they’re displayed.
I do like AOEs but I dislike how they get to be a "MY EYES!!! THEY BURN!!!!" as the screen gets lit up with constant AOE animations. Yes AOEs need to be beautiful to look at in an individual level but maybe if multiple casters are casting the same spell, their magics get intertwined and a just more powerful animation happens instead?
In PvP, which Area of Effect (AoE) abilities, should be telegraphed to enemies?
in PVP the ONLY telegraph maybe should be the spell windup, have them see a different spell circle for individual vs AOE spell and you have to pay attention to what they are doing, or maybe an audio que but not a circle on the ground or AOE targeting that shows where/when it goes off like PVE. PVP needs to be as minimal give away as possible
How clearly should AoEs be to enemy and friendly players? To the enemy? you never see it coming, to friendly players, you have a timer and see where it is being used, that way you can synchronize your spells to be different places and hit different people
Do your thoughts differ in a PvE setting? Obviously yes, in a PVE setting you should be able to see the spell effect area to have a chance to get out of the way, because in a PVE setting the goal is your group vs the boss and no one else, the boss itself even with the AOE effect ques should be hard to accomplish just like any other MMO
Do you have examples from other games in which AoE abilities are presented in a way you like? If so, please share them!
I like the FFXIV way they do things with the boss AOE mechanics. I do not like the multiple player AOE "light up my screen and burn my eyes" thought, just the boss mechanics AOEs
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ZekethephoenixMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
Honestly the easiest to sum up for my opinion is to copy/innovate on games like Wildstar where the aoes are mostly telegraph shapes sticking out the front of your character circle at your feet.
Whatever spell they tossed had a specific shape telegraphed on the ground. You could adjust the brightness and whether the floor was filled in or just an outline via an opacity slider.
Everything from pvp or pve had clear telegraphs. In PVP mass fights it would get chaotic with telegraph cones everywhere but that was kinda the point, "you are in danger in those cones and lines, so use your roll to get out."
Wildstar was a more technic themed game so the telegraphs made sense thematically. Ashes would probably have to have them be various types of magic circles\lines\cones\squares that could be adjusted in kind.
I think having options for those kind of telegraph settings is the best bet. Give the people who just wanna see just abilities but no telegraphs and the people who want them to be visible and clear what you're getting hit by.
AOE Mechanics: The Importance of Telegraphing in PvP and PvX Environments
Alliterating further from my previous thoughts, I believe visual cues are crucial for creating a competitive and balanced environment, especially in PvP and PvX scenarios. No one enjoys being sniped or obliterated by an ability they never saw coming or had a chance to react to. While I’m not suggesting we need exaggerated cones or bright triangles on the ground, there should be some form of visual and audio awareness that players can pick up on.
Take, for example, a giant fireball or meteorite dropping on your head that deals massive damage without any warning—where's the fun in that? Players should have the opportunity to use defensive abilities, either individually or through group coordination, to mitigate or counter such attacks. If it's impossible to move out of the way in time, there should at least be a chance to react. Without that possibility, the encounter becomes frustrating rather than challenging.
Imagine the caster of that fireball having a visual wind-up: perhaps spinning their staff around their head, flames surrounding them, or even a fire circle appearing on the ground where they aim, with smoke rising as a signal. Audio cues could further complement this, like the rippling sound of flames in the air. Magic circles or elemental effects that blend into the game world can make telegraphing more immersive without being jarring or artificial.
Big, hard-hitting abilities should come with clear visual wind-ups and subtle follow-up cues. One issue with many games today is the pacing—abilities are cast at breakneck speed, turning combat into a flurry of spell-slinging with little to no weight behind each attack. This not only diminishes the tactical depth of the fight but also makes encounters feel repetitive, reducing combat to a button-mashing affair. Players need time to execute their rotations, react, and engage in the back-and-forth of a good skirmish, rather than being instantly deleted by an unseen ability.
What’s needed are visual cues that aren’t overly flashy or intrusive—no fake flashing lights or unnatural effects. These cues should feel like an organic part of the game world. For instance, a mage using an earth-based ability could have a wind-up where they slam their staff into the ground, causing cracks to form before the earth breaks open and the attack strikes. These are just a few examples, but the essence is that telegraphing should be integrated naturally to enhance gameplay and give players a fair chance to react without sacrificing immersion.
Area of Effect (AoE) abilities are a common staple in MMORPG combat. We’re curious to know what your thoughts are on AoE abilities and the way they’re displayed.
I don't quite understand what I should write here. I think I have some thoughts about displaying AOE on enemies/myself. I think if you are under the effect of an enemy AOE, then your screen should display a Fade effect according to the element of this AOE. That is, if you are set on fire by a pillar of fire, then the edges of the screen should turn red and look like a fire animation. If frozen, then blue and ice. I think this way you should immediately understand that you need to run out of the AOE. Also, you should draw a visible circle on the ground where the AOE ends, to understand whether to use blink or take a step to get out of it.
In PvP, which Area of Effect (AoE) abilities, should be telegraphed to enemies?
I think all of them. I don't know if hunter traps are standard AoE, but I think they need to be shown, but not focused on. That is, it should still be a trap, but there shouldn't be a specific circle around it.
I think I described everything else above.
I think friendly AoE healing abilities can be left unseen by enemies. But buff AoE abilities that work in the "dome" should be shown to enemies so that they understand whether you are under any protection in a specific area
How clearly should AoEs be to enemy and friendly players?
I think only the borders of this AoE should be clear. All other animations of freezing rain, burning field, and the rest should not distract from what is happening around. It should not distract the attention of players.
Do your thoughts differ in a PvE setting?
I think AOE is an integral part of PVE. we should have pve compositions for a more efficient way to farm mobs in the world. npc enemies should also use AOE for more interesting fights.
Do you have examples from other games in which AoE abilities are presented in a way you like? If so, please share them!
there are many ideas, as well as a concept:
One of the concepts of AOE is damage escalation: the more enemies (pvp) your AOE hits, the more damage it should do. 1 player - 100% damage, 2 players - 105%, 5 players - 125%, 10 players - 150%. This could be configured differently for different abilities, because there are those for which it would be very strong (chain abilities should increase damage much less)
///
chain is an ability that needs to be cast for several seconds to maintain existence.
cast is an ability that has a casttime, and leaves a field on the floor for X seconds
I think there can be a lot of ideas for damage dealers, but I am most focused on AOE support and control.
AOE ability ideas:
- Silince area (cast 0.4sec)(for tanks) - create an area 3 meters wide in which you can't use the ability, which lasts 6 seconds and slows down enemies inside by 30%.
- Ring of energy (cast 0sec)(for tanks) - create a ring 20 meters long and 1 meter thick, which slows down by 80% those who enter, which lasts 4 seconds
- Curse field (chain 5secs)(someone) - create an area 5 meters wide in which 1 enemy buff will be destroyed every second
- Dome of protection (cast or chain5sec) - create a dome 16 meters wide giving protection to all players inside (or up to 20 players inside)
- Time stop (cast 0sec) - in an area 5 meters wide, time freezes for 3 seconds. Players/NPCs frozen in time are invulnerable, cannot move and use abilities. after use, a debuff appears on players that does not allow another TimeStop to be used on them
- rune of protection (cast 1sec) - creates an area 6 meters wide for 9 seconds, giving invulnerability to types of control: slowdown, knockback, and timestop.
- protective barrier (chain 5sec) - creates a dome in front of itself for 5 seconds, 4 meters wide, which pushes all players who touch it back 12 meters
- barrier wall (cast 1sec) - creates protection 5 meters wide existing 5 seconds, which pushes all players who touch it back 12 meters
We opened a thread in our community once more and asked the questions.
General answers:
- Area of Effect (AoE) abilities are a common staple in MMORPG combat. We’re curious to know what your thoughts are on AoE abilities and the way they’re displayed.
Have a different vfx to differentiate friendly and enemy AoE
Have a difference between DoT AoE's and nuke AoE, visibility wise
- In PvP, which Area of Effect (AoE) abilities, should be telegraphed to enemies?
Have big spells/AoE's be telegraphed before they land, ie a meteor or huge blizzard.
- How clearly should AoEs be to enemy and friendly players?
Across the board agreed it should be very clear.
- Do your thoughts differ in a PvE setting?
No, people wanted it to be as clear as possible there as well. With perhaps some vfx culling.
- Do you have examples from other games in which AoE abilities are presented in a way you like? If so, please share them!
Albion online. Ragnarok Online.
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ZaltysMember, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
Area of Effect (AoE) abilities are a common staple in MMORPG combat. We’re curious to know what your thoughts are on AoE abilities and the way they’re displayed.
I agree AoE’s are a common staple in MMORGP combat. The real question is, does Intrepid want common abilities in their game. I personally would prefer less damage AoE abilities in-game. And the ones that make it should be innovative in some way.
If Intrepid gets 200v200 avatars firing off AoE abilities, in the same space, it's going to look like a Jackson Pollock painting pasted over your monitor in short order. I suggest moderation with the Fx. I saw your Bard cameo. I thought it looked pretty good by itself, but during the PvE run the squad started to clutter up the screen, Also the AoE radius was way too large for some of those skills.
In PvP, which Area of Effect (AoE) abilities, should be telegraphed to enemies?
I’m assuming there are animations for skills and a damage log? This should be enough for players to figure out what is killing them or locking them down. Not to mention most everyone is going to alt out and experience most of the classes from the user position. However I am not opposed to baking tells into the class animations.
How clearly should AoEs be to enemy and friendly players?
I’d have to play your game before I could answer this question. I’m Alpha 2
Do your thoughts differ in a PvE setting?
I don't have an opinion on PvE
Do you have examples from other games in which AoE abilities are presented in a way you like? If so, please share them!
ArtCraft had this very same discussion for Crowfall during their early Pre-Alpha phase of development, it was clear that hardcore PvP constituents wanted less AoE, less FX spam, and better performance. And everybody else wanted flashing lights, bells and whistles, buzzers, and glitter. ArtCraft leaned into the special effects because they felt like the sensory stimulation would put ‘Butts In Seats’ and the glitter would grab the attention of potential customers/subscriptions. So we ended up with more glitter than the early player base wanted, however they did some things right with hard counter abilities, caps, and immunities, that kept the insta-kill, and perma-lock, down to a minimum while still effectively utilizing area denial, or making players spread out from the zerg ball with ticking DoTs. The blinds were fun too.
-Area of Effect (AoE) abilities are a common staple in MMORPG combat. We’re curious to know what your thoughts are on AoE abilities and the way they’re displayed.
Should be separated to 2 type, one display to enemies another one doesn’t.
-In PvP, which Area of Effect (AoE) abilities, should be telegraphed to enemies?
Same answer as above.
Big aoe spell that deal good amount of damage and can be casted far away like over 35 meters from enemy should display the indicator on ground.(example: Elementalist’s Meteor Shower in GW2)
Small aoe spell that deal okay damage and only can be casted in a middle range like 15~25 meters from enemy shouldn’t display the indicator on ground and should be instant cast or has very short cast time.(example: Mesmer’s Mind Stab in GW2)
-How clearly should AoEs be to enemy and friendly players?
Same to both side.
-Do your thoughts differ in a PvE setting?
No reason to do it differently in PVE.
-Do you have examples from other games in which AoE abilities are presented in a way you like? If so, please share them!
In PvP, which Area of Effect (AoE) abilities, should be telegraphed to enemies?
In general I don't think that incoming AoE should ever be telegraphed to enemies using AoE markers on the ground, this completely destroys the purpose of scouting, information gathering, hiding, being sneaky etc. during fights as well as the possibility of setting traps for your adversaries (cooperation is the essence of an MMO). Once the abilities has landed and leaves an effect on the ground, either dealing damage or applies debuffs, a small indicator could be used by just having that area a different color or pattern, eg Nasus Spirit fire ability in league (https://us.v-cdn.net/6030144/uploads/editor/8a/k9efcc16b3m0.png) or like AoEs in Smite. I think that AoE abilities in Smite are very well done, you can clearly see where they are targeting most abilities and projectiles are mostly avoidable if you keep pay attention, even if they are instant cast. You can also go the route of the current blizzard ability that you have in the game and just rely on effect. My point is just that it should not be immersion breaking like FF14 or newer versions of WoW. Player awareness is also a skill to have for a good player, not just visual prowess and reaction speed.
How clearly should AoEs be to enemy and friendly players?
Stated above most of it.
Incoming dmg (like a long cast meteor) can be telegraphed to friendly players to make it easier to combine attacks but is not needed, since this can also be a skill of a well coordinated team to perfectly layer abilities (again highlighting the enjoyable interactions and cooperation aspects of MMOs).
Do your thoughts differ in a PvE setting?
No difference. PvE combat and PvP combat should work the same way, not different systems, maybe just that PvE abities should be extra telegraphed with movement/gesture from NPCs, not with AoE markers.
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SolvrynMember, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
Area of Effect (AoE) abilities are a common staple in MMORPG combat. We’re curious to know what your thoughts are on AoE abilities and the way they’re displayed.
The Art and Animation should suffice to indicate what is and what is not, nothing else is further needed.
In PvP, which Area of Effect (AoE) abilities, should be telegraphed to enemies?
Animations should be appropriate for the very spell it's using. Meteors should fall from the sky, ice spikes on the ground should be actual ice spikes.
Cast times and telegraphed should be appropriate to what they do and how they used, a meteor should hit like a meteor and thus should come with a cast time and animation.
How clearly should AoEs be to enemy and friendly players?
Art should be distinguishable, visualizations and sonifications need to be appropriate, if you walk over ice spikes and they're enemy ice spikes, there should be the appropriate visuals associated with it, not a cheap indicator. More like your legs are frozen.
Do your thoughts differ in a PvE setting?
No.
Do you have examples from other games in which AoE abilities are presented in a way you like? If so, please share them!
[*] Area of Effect (AoE) abilities are a common staple in MMORPG combat. We’re curious to know what your thoughts are on AoE abilities and the way they’re displayed.
Yes, well... I don't hate them but I wouldn't be upset if you remove them completely from the game.
I don't like to see a lot or colored spell effects everywhere. Simple graphics are better for me.
There should be clear distinctions between damaging, healing and cc AOEs. It also needs to be possible to scale down their intensity to reduce clutter in larger scale combat scenarios while still having them clearly distinguishable from each other while still being visible. I'm not a big fan of clear coloured outlines of aoe abilities because I find them to be immersion breaking but it would get the job done which is better then a mess.
When caster is casting AOE (other than seeing animation of that spell on the caster himself)
Red circle where caster is applying AOE
In other words - no warnings.
After AOE is already applied, I think it's okay to make a setting where players can turn on/off red circles that will highlight AOE on the ground, could be color coded for enemy(damage)/healing/buff(friendly). However, if you make visual effects visible enough, where if player just looks where he standing then that would be ideal.
I said "to make a setting" because not everyone wants to see digital advice in games like this. Not everyone is playing with health bars turned on (in Diablo for example), some people like myself don't want to see too much overlayed on top of the screen, especially if it's against the atmosphere of the game or current mood of player. Another example would be, in some games, especially in MMO, they make an arrow of where you need to go to finish a quest - circles around AOE debuffs give the same feeling.
Only a few classes should have more than one cleave or aoe ability in my opinion. Pure fighter and archwizard having an aoe build I don't see as a bad thing and maybe a few others. It needs to be limited to 7-8 targets for all spells though so it's not just aoe zerg pvp. I feel like people want single target damage to be more impactful in most PvP scenarios, I agree to some extent and think most classes should be primarily single target damage in PvP. with just a few having viable aoe / cleave builds if that. It's hard to say what effects you should cull exactly because it's nice to know when you're standing in something. I think a lot of the spell effects right now are overly flashy and could be toned down to have a softer effect that's not as noticeable on the screen. If you keep very few classes having viable aoe / cleave builds and most of those having less noticeable effects I think it will be good.
The effects i have seen within The game, AOE or not have been absolutely beautiful. My only concern is when you then multiply those effects by 100, then start throwing them in every direction, and stack them all on top of each other.
Personally when it comes to AOE effect, as I get older (I started playing MMOs when I was 17, and now almost 40) when doing PVP, it can be a bit overwhelming and hard to focus on what is going on within the game with AOE effect going off like firework factory just exploded. When doing PVE, because the AOE is centered on a single target or group of targets kited into one position its not an issue at all. But for PVP (especially high player volume) it turns into pure chaos and is so distracting.
It would be really nice if there was a setting, that could reduce the effects shown. Maybe just a circle ring on the ground displaying the area of effect, and eliminating all of the effects that would be shown above it.
If an Ice storm is going off, I just need to know its radius and its ground graphic. Sometimes it is fun to see the pure chaos of it all, but other times id like to not be overly stimulated (as i become an old person its getting easier and easier to do lol).
Just some food for thought.
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ApokMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
skills that root/sleep you should be telegraphed in some way, FFXIV had this issue when PvP first started and the black mages aoe sleep was OP. wouldn't mind seeing some skills act as a bomb going off after a couple seconds so people have a chance to react to it but only allow for like a second to get out of the way.
Also players should be able to tell the difference between friendly and enemy AoEs
for persistent damage AoEs I think the most balanced way if having them start with low damage and ramp up.
I also think a lot of skills and abilities shouldn't just be either damage or a CC, for example an AoE lightning skill that can cause a shock de buff which will stun you for .1 seconds every so often depending on the stacks as well as do some small damage every time the de buff is applied.
I really hope everything isn't hit scan as well. for some skills that leave behind an aoe but still inflict a good amount of damage, lets say fireball for example. it's weakness could be it's travel time and ability to be intercepted. this would be you're aoe that isn't telegraphed and is instant upon impact with high damage
In PvP, which Area of Effect (AoE) abilities, should be telegraphed to enemies?
[*] I feel enemy players should be able to see both damaging and healing AoE abilities. Beyond that, I think it's valuable to show enemies some form of casting bar above the caster of the AoE ability. I think it's also crucial to have dedicated and unique sound FX that are associated with key AoE abilities that way there are visual AND auditory feedback.
How clearly should AoEs be to enemy and friendly players?
[*] I think it's only valuable for other players to see AoE abilities within a "justifiable" distance. What that distance actually is is hard to say because I haven't been in game just yet. I feel like from a certain distance away, the abilities don't need to load in. Aside from viewable distance, to avoid FX clutter, AoE's should contrast against other abilities and the environment without being so bright that you can't see other things.
Do your thoughts differ in a PvE setting?
[*] Not really, I think PvE can get super cluttered in large group settings, and in order to know where to stand during a heal AoE or where not to stand if the encounter's damage AoE, there has to be great balance between contrast, colors, brightness, and other visual aspects. Similar to PvP, I think it's important for those sound FX to exist as key indications of what AoE's are happening.
Do you have examples from other games in which AoE abilities are presented in a way you like? If so, please share them!
[*] In Elder Scrolls Online, there are visual and audible queues of key AoE's during PvE and PvP encounters. I feel like the sounds associated with different class abilities were really helpful in knowing where to be when healers, bow users, and different staff builds were using AoE's. Both in dungeons and in Cyrodiil (PvP zone).
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NeurotoxinMember, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
Area of Effect (AoE) abilities are a common staple in MMORPG combat. We’re curious to know what your thoughts are on AoE abilities and the way they’re displayed.
In PvP, which Area of Effect (AoE) abilities, should be telegraphed to enemies?
Nothing that procs instantly should (or even can) be telegraphed. This means augments for instant casts that cost more or augments to cast instantly with reduced effect allow some abilities to avoid the telegraph.
Spells with areas that leave a field of effect behind are okay to telegraph, especially for friendly heals. That way it has the dual-purpose of acting like a grenade in a FPS game: you don't know WHAT grenade it is and how much it will screw your life up, you know there's a grenade nearby and to escape your current position to avoid it, or plan to take it because you trust your healers.
Beyond that I could see some application of skills and augments to create an informational push-pull, where you have some players trying to do more to obfuscate the range their AoEs can be detected at and how much anticipation is offered, vs players that have more abilities to detect AoEs incoming for themselves or even their group. A Ranger mark to see who and where the mark is targeting is one example of how to force more anticipation data out of a given source.
How clearly should AoEs be to enemy and friendly players?
Friendly AoE should be more visible but perhaps with less intense effects so they don't overlap and get too visually muddy to discern what is happening. Knowing where my beneficial places to stand are at is very useful, and knowing whether I'm in the area of a big area-buffing effect or not could be the difference between me being able to help push the battle forward or remain less aggressive for the moment compared to my more well-buffed allies.
If it isn't a buff allies + harm enemies effect, the visual area of the effect can be represented, but perhaps without a ring or box or whatever to show the area of it, either you know that wispy sinusoidal rising effect is an area buff for your adversaries or you don't, but it isn't drawn plainly to see.
The further out AoE effects are, the more diminished their visibility needs to be, but it still helps to be able to see when a distant pack of adversaries is mass-buffing from afar while they launch projectiles downstream at your allies. To that extent, some priority can be distance based relative to the player, and some relative to who you are targeting, since your focus is now on their general area as well.
Do your thoughts differ in a PvE setting?
I feel like players will learn the archetypes faster and better than each individual enemy or boss, so to that extent I'm more okay with increase AoE visibility and anticipation from enemies. We are supposed to be the heroes of the realm, and enemies can be disproportionately tough with funky patterns, so it makes sense for their abilities to be more identifiable for players to respond to them in an effective manner.
Do you have examples from other games in which AoE abilities are presented in a way you like? If so, please share them!
For a combat system with a few less enemies at a time, and a bit more active weapon comboing and defenses, I felt like the anticipations in DCUO were pretty solid. I haven't played it in a while so maybe there's some rose-colored glasses involved.
1. In PvP which AOE should be telegraph to enemies?
None.
2. How clear should AOE be to all other players?
It should be clear to them when they get hit.
3. Should that be different in a PVP setting?
No.
4. Examples of AOE you like.
NCSoft’s Aion ALL Spriritmaster AoE’s including but not limited to Fear Shriek which Transforms enemies within a 15m radius of you into Fire Spirits for 13s~18s, and the target becomes afraid and its movement speed is reduced.
AND
Blade of Earth which Decreases the movement speed of a target within 25m of you and all enemies within 15m of the target for 10s~12s.
AND
Sandblaster which Deals 90...110 magical earth damage to a target within 25m and all enemies within 15m of the target, and inflicts an additional 78...96
damage every 3s for 3
AND
Cursecloud which Inflicts 754 magical earth damage to a target within 25m and all enemies within a 25m radius of the target, and inflicts an additional 656 damage every 6s for 54s. In addition, whenever the target uses a magical attack on you, it suffers damage equal to 5% of its maximum HP.
Comments: These would tip the scales in PvP arenas (1v1 & 5v5), especially Fear Shriek, and no other class had anything even remotely similar. They would come off as normal spells with a cast time and a mana cost. I felt like everything depended on me, or like I really had a unique skill the group needed. It also let me express my anger in a creative way because everyone on screen would explode in convulsions at the same time.
Area of Effect (AoE) abilities are a common staple in MMORPG combat. We’re curious to know what your thoughts are on AoE abilities and the way they’re displayed.
My biggest concerns with AOE abilities is that they may become over used.
AOE Abilities should never be more powerful than a single target ability when used on only one target.
There should be significant difference between AOE (abilities that hit everything in an area) and cleave (abilities that hit a limited number of enemies, but greater than one) abilities.
The situation that an AOE should be used should be when you're fighting a bunch of "trash mobs".
There shouldn't be a situation where we pull 3 to 10 elite mobs and burn them down like WoW has.
Another thing to note is terrain. I truly hope the telegraphs will not run into issues of clipping into the ground and being invisible.
In PvP, which Area of Effect (AoE) abilities, should be telegraphed to enemies?
If the ability is extremely impactful, it needs to be displayed.
If the ability can cause a shift in the fight because they hit you with it or hit their allies with it, it needs to be displayed.
I would want to see a large AOE ground placed heal if the enemy healer is trying to heal a large group. I want to be able to react to that to pull a priority target out of that AOE heal or AOE shield.
How clearly should AoEs be to enemy and friendly players?
I think a slider for this could be worth looking into. Different players will want to see different abilities more clearly than others.
Do your thoughts differ in a PvE setting?
Not really, no. I would expect to see my party members aoe's if my actions could help or hinder those AOE's performance either directly or indirectly.
I would also still expect to see the boss or mobs AOE's.
Do you have examples from other games in which AoE abilities are presented in a way you like? If so, please share them!
I like how FFXIV displays it's AOE Telegraphs, they are incredibly obvious and clear.
WoW has gotten a lot better, but the lack of customization of how those telegraphs are formed and restricting the ability to change the visibility of certain abilities is frustrating.
Thoughts on AoE abilities and the way they’re displayed.
- I like the Mage Meteor spell a lot, but I absolutely hate the floating portal in the Air they fall out of, it's very distracting visually - and also serves as a telegraph. Do not do this.
In PvP, which Area of Effect (AoE) abilities, should be telegraphed to enemies?
- AoE's should be visible to the Enemy after the cast ends, not telegraphed with a shape or outline until after the cast is complete.
How clearly should AoEs be to enemy and friendly players?
- A simple Red outline or Green outline should be more than enough.
Do your thoughts differ in a PvE setting?
- No. I don't want the game to hold my hand.
- The Firebrand Dragon was a good example, no real ground markings but you knew what was coming if you were watching the fight closely. That's all we need, keep players engaged IN the fight instead of staring at the ground looking for AoE circles.
Do you have examples from other games in which AoE abilities are presented in a way you like? If so, please share them!
- I will mention AoE Damage and AoE Healing here. Since Ashes has both Player collision, and Enemy collision too (iirc) this acts as a limit on how many things an AoE can hit. So there is no reason to use Diminishing damage/healing after X-Targets. AoE should be used strategically in battles, and player positioning to maximize your Spec and Efficiency should be rewarded!
- For example, early Final Fantasy XIV had speed runs in some of their dungeon designs. They even had Speed Runs as a Team competition at their Fan Festival! But then they changed AoE Damage to where only some targets took full damage, the rest took greatly reduced damage. This completely ruined the flow of battle. Now you have monsters of the same type dying at all different times, which would cause the DPS to be caught at the end of a rotation, and no MP to kill the remaining monsters...and stragglers chasing after the tank headed to the next pulls. It just ended up making Battle feel like a big mess.
- Diminishing AoE Damage and Healing feels bad, do not do this. It ruins the flow of battle.
Nobody likes this, it makes the fights feel clunky - and most importantly - it isn't fun.
My goal is to hopefully provide some insight and direction into your testing, based on thousands of hours of fighting game analysis and testing for competitive play.
To better explain my points, I will boil down combat into into its fundamental components to help understand the role of aoes and "tells" within your desired gameplay context.
Hopefully you don't disregard this as unapplicable, because these are general combat concepts and balancing approaches that can be applied, regardless of the actual chosen combat and balancing design.
2. AOE Gameplay goals:
We know that agency is a core pillar or AOC, and that strategy and skill are a part of that agency. Depending on how aoes and tells are handled it can have a significant impact on the strategy and skill in the combat design.
My definition of "tells" are any kind of visual/audio queue or animation that allow the player to react to something that is about to happen.
A primary goal should be to avoid unskillful aoe spam, where counterplay, movement, and positioning are discouraged due to the large area of affect that an aoe can have, and its ability to shut down movement options, to invalidate positional advantages, and to eliminate the nuance of precision-based attacks and counterplay through the sheer amount of combat situations that an aoe can account for, and the amount of enemy options that it can deny/shut down.
A- Purpose of aoe
Aoe can have its place though.
Because of its ability to simplify combat interactions, it can simplify decision making, which can good for when you want to reward a certain class for doing something good during combat, such as a ranger being rewarded for creating distance, by having a long range aoe become viable, or a fighter being rewarded for closing the gap, by having a close range aoe become viable.
I think that overall aoes should be used sparingly to retain the decision making and skill throughout the majority of combat scenarios, which is relevant to the design or aoes, and the use of "tells" for the aoe design, as I will explain.
Aoes also need to have counterplay, which is obvious, but this is relevant to the use of "tells" and how that affects different counterplay possibilities due to its affect on reactability, and the implications this has on some other combat design aspects, as I will also explain, but basically the ability to react can make an aoe a lot easier to deal with (which is done through tells), but if you decide to not use tells then there are only so many other ways you can counter an unreactable aoe without having aoe creep where you just have to give a bunch of aoes to every class to balance things. But on the other hand you also don't want to make aoes so easily reactable and counterable that they might as well not exist. In reality, "tells" and "reactability" are just a tool in the combat design in order to create the kind of combat scenarios you want to create, which means it is contextual and situational when to make an aoe reactable and give it a "tell", vs. when to allow an aoe to be unreactable, depending on other factors in a given combat scenario, like the class strengths/weaknesses, the other abilities available at that range, and their reactability, etc.
B- Preserving skill and tactics
To understand how aoes, tells, and reactability can all affect combat skill and strategy, first you have to understand some different elements of combat skill and strategy. Here are some examples of common strategies/tactics that are involved in competitive combat games, which I will later give examples of and put into context with the combat feel, balance, and aoe design.
1) safely pressuring with attacks that only work on specific options the enemy might do ("soft reads")
2) committing to fully punish specific options as hard as possible but at greater risk ("hard reads")
3) playing to maintain a positional advantage for long term gains, at the cost of punishing a specific option at this moment in time (like giving up a punish to maintain "stage control" in Super Smash Bros)
4) playing the odds of which option the enemy might do based on how many viable options that have available to them in this exact combat scenario (like "50/50s" in fighting game terms)
5) the ability to counter potential enemy options through strategically choosing to lean in to certain over-arching combat functions, like defense, offensive pressure, or positional control.
6) Precision counterattacks through skillful spacing/distance management (like knowing you have a close-range fighter ability that can interrupt and invalidate anything the enemy can do up close, as long as you can use it at its proper range/timing, and can strategically get into position to do so)
7) baiting and punishing
8) or a variety of other strategic and tactical approaches that combat skill involves
But to better understand these elements, you first have to understand some combat basics and the fundamental components of different combat interactions. I am going to give a brief overview of these components to give a better context to the follow-up points.
C- Combat components overview
Regardless of which components you want to emphasize in the design and what flow/pacing you are going for, overall, range-based combat is mainly about spacing and timing (where and when, or "right option at right place at right time") through combat options (like abilities, blocking, dodging, etc.) that include defense, attack, and movement/repositioning, and sustainability, done in either a reactable or unreactable manner. Even things like resource management just affect your ability to carry out of of these general combat functions. Each combat option is designed to fulfill its respective function at specific ranges due to the timing associated with that option when used at that range, such as a weapon attack being an ideal defensive option for a given range because it comes out fast enough to defend against an attack before that attack can reach that range in time before the defensive takes effect (which is why knowing frame data is important in combat games). This timing aspect can make options that are usually optimal at a specific range, to turn into unoptimal options [such as a sword strike that has a primary use-case of being used at its maximum reach, but was used when the enemy was outside of its maximum reach, causing it to whiff and making the character have to wait before using that strike again, meaning the enemy can now close the gap and be at the max reach of that sword strike, but the sword strike is now unable to be used at its normally ideal range (its main use-case) due to the enemy being able to now act before a second try of using the sword strike can happen at its ideal range]. This timing aspect of options that are designed for specific ranges, means that if a player can bait an option to be used by mixing up the timing of when they enter and exit that range to get the opponent to use the option meant for that range, means that baiting an punishing can exist. This by consequence means that conditioning can exist (getting the opponent to make a different choice next time they are in that scenario due to repeatedly failing in previous occurences of that same scenario). This means that essentially by mixing up your timing at a given range you can eliminate specific options the opponent has available to them, making it more managable to deal with other options at that range.
For example, in Super Smash bros, if you are within an unreactable range you have to act preemptively, meaning you would have to account for every possible option that can be used at that range due to not being able to counter on reaction. This means you would have to account for dash options, short hop options, tilt attack options, smash attack options, etc. However, some of these options are very unsafe if they miss, meaning that if you can bait something like a slow smash attack, you can punish it fairly easily, meaning the enemy is less likely to use it the next time that they are in range to do so, meaning you can condition them to where you don't really have to worry about the smash attack as long as you can be unpredictable and unreactable with your timing mixups of when you enter that range. This makes it a lot easier to manage countering the other handful of options once you get into range to do so. It also means that in order to even create these strategic scenarios in range based combat, you need to have options that have the intended use-case of "missing with", where it is okay to miss with them because they are safe when missed with, in order to provide combat options for ranges outside of what you would actually connect with the enemy at (such as a "jab" with a sword that can be used from afar to defend against incoming offensive rush attempts), and conversely, you also want to have options that are meant to connect at their given range but are unsafe when missed with [such as a heavier strike that is only meant to be used at its max range, being safe enough if they avoid it at that exact max range and safe enough to challenge other attacks at that range, but unsafe if it is used too close ("mis-spaced") or of it is used outside of its max range and whiffs]. And again, the significance of this is more about the overall functions and concepts of combat rather than how that manifested through the individual combat mechanics which can be designed in various ways.
D- Implications relevant to unreactable attacks
How this relates to AOE and "tells", is that the more unreactable options there are, the harder it is to deal with them all and effectively counter or strategize around them using the previously mentioned skill based combat tactics. Interactions can become more rng based because there are just too many different options to contend with while trying to achive your class goal and you don't have ways of managing/countering them. If you are a fighter and need to get up close, (all else equal against a skilled opponent) its not viable to just choose not to get up close and to instead try to just react to everything from afar, because you need to get close to make best use of your class, so there are only so many ways of dealing with a multitude of close-ranged unreactable options when you are trying to close the gap. If the enemy has a close range unreactable AOE, then that can invalidate a number of your close range/gap closing options, which can make it that much harder to deal with other potential close range unreactable options the enemy might mix up with. This does not mean there cannnot be a lot of close range options in the kit, it just means there needs to be ways of dealing with those options utilizing the tactics that deal with unreactable options (bait and punish, precision couterattacks, other tactics, etc.). So just like I explained earlier, one way of dealing with this is to condition the enemy to not use AOEs by allowing them to be baited and punished through timing mixups, which would allow a fighter class a better chance at closing the gap against a class that has an unreactable aoe and a variety of other unreactable close range options. Another tactic mentioned was precision counterattacks, so by providing the fighter with a close range option that can interrupt or invalidate an unreactable close-ranged aoe while also dealing with other potential mixups, that could be a good approach as well, (such as a fighter who uses a sword strike in its optimal use-case scenario at the correct range and timing, and allowing that to counter both a close range aoe, and a variety of other close ranged options that the enemy might use at that range). Of course, you could also reward the fighter for getting up close by providing them with an unreactable close range aoe for themselves, to cover a multitude of other options the opponent might use at close range, which would be fine since the fighter should have an advantage state when at close range. Just be sure to maintain the integrity of the combat skill as much as possible, through the afforementioned tactics and examples I listed. You want to avoid AOE creep where classes are too reliant on AOE's, and then it becomes the meta tactic that undermines combat strategy and skill approaches of which include the following things within an unreactable scenario
- skillful range management
- the ability to counter potential enemy options while focusing on either defense, offensive pressure, or positional control
- the need to choose between things like soft reads, hard reads, 50/50's
- etc.
generally, longer ranged characters get more of these opportunities because they can cause these interactions to happen from further away, which is why you need to reward close ranged classes who are able to get to their ideal position with a strong "advantage state" to be able to capitalize on those fewer opportunites that they have available to cause their own interactions, which is relevant to the aoes they have available, their counterplay, and how they fit into those strategic combat methods.
E- Implications relevant to reactable attacks
Even if you are in a reactable scenario then these same snenarios can still occur. As mentioned earlier, the idea of things being reactable but indistinguishable from other options can retain that element of strategy that unreactable scenarios provide. If you are at long range and cannot tell which attack is coming, then you still have to deal with it in the same way as you would for close range options, because they are "unreactably distinguishable" from each other. The only difference is that you can react to "an" attack, so there is no timing mixup aspect since you can just react on demand, so you cannot be baited through a timing mixup (such as using range arrows to force the enemy to block then changing the timing to punish the block, they can just block on reaction so it wouldn't mess their timing up if you mix up your arrow timing), but you still don't know which attack is coming and so the enemy can be still be conditioned that way by mixing up which ranged attacks are used. You have to prepare for and attempt to counter any combination of ranged attacks, just like you would have to do for a variety of unreactable close ranged attacks. This means that the same rules could apply to ranged AOE and "tells", because even though you have the priveledge of reacting to them, you still need to be able to have viable ways of dealing with or countering both ranged aoes, as well as the variety of other potential ranged attacks the enemy could mix up with (using some of the earlier listed tactics), as you try to reach a position that is advantageous to your class. In that case, "tells" would provide that reactability aspect that you might want for a ranged aoe, but you would still want to account for those considerations. An example of this would be that you are a fighter class and you are up againat a mage who has a bow and arrow, and you have to consider whether they would use an arrow shot or a long range magic aoe ability, which might be countered in different ways. You may be able to react to either of them initially, but you don't know which specific option will be used before its too late. You want it to be possible to counter both potential options in a strategic/tactical manner while trying to close the gap, which will be harder if you have to account for an aoe ability, on top of other potential option mixups at that range, even if you give the aoe a "tell" that allows you to react to it.
Another example of reactable tells that are ambiguous to other options would be like in Super Smash Bros, if you are on hanging on the ledge you can react to most ledge options, but you cannot tell the difference between some of them on reaction, this means you can react with an option, but it might not neccessarily be the correct one if you don't account for the various ledge options that it could be. The idea of this reactability is more about being in a more "advantageous state" during a fight, where it is easier to cover the opponents options through "ledge trapping" since the timing aspect is instead reduced down to reaction. Its less about just being able to automatically react and hard counter the enemy, and more just a way to tip the scales toward the player who can put themselves into that beneficial position, because it should still require managing your options and having combat skill even if you are in that advantageous state.
The relevance of this is that the "tells" can be a way of rewarding players who are in this advantageous state per the reasons I stated about reactability, which can also be applied to different advantageous positions and ranges of different classes and what their combat goals are.
If a ranger excels at long range, then you want to reward a player who can get far away by puting them into an "advantage state" where it is more manageable to deal with the opponent's options with your own long range options. Reactability to the enemy's options is one way of giving this advantage, and "tells" are one way of provding this reactability, and "tells" that are ambigious between multiple options can retain an element of combat skill and gameplay integrity without making things to simplistic once they are in that advantageous position, such as players who are in advantage state still being required have to choose between
A) safely pressuring with attacks that only work on specific options the enemy might do ("soft reads"), or
B- committing to fully punish specific options as hard as possible but at greater risk ("hard reads"), or
C) playing to maintain a positional advantage for long term gains, at the cost of punishing a specific option at this moment in time, or
D) playing the odds of which option the enemy might do based on how many viable options that have available to them in this exact combat scenario (like "50/50s" in fighting game terms)
E) or a variety of other strategic and tactical approaches that combat skill involves.
This idea of reactability/advantage state becomes a bit more complicated when the combat goal of a specific class is to get up close and personal (like the fighter), due to the nature of being up at close range making it more difficult to react to enemy attacks. For the fighter to gain an advantage once up close, this would require either
1. "tells" to be slow enough to be reactable even at very close range, or
2. having close ranged options that can proactively counter or deal with unreactable aoes (hense the tactics I listed earlier, which could include the fighter having an aoe since they are in their advantage state up at close range, which would help to counter any unreactable aoes the enemy might have)
3. Or it could mean just not providing the enemy with an unreactable aoe at close range, and therefore no need for the fighter to account for it when trying to manage the enemy's options that the fighter would need to counter, once entering that range
3. Overall:
So, in order for skillful and strategic combat to be preserved, aoes should not be the go-to option and should be used sparingly to avoid aoe creep and mindless aoe spam.
When they are used, they should have counterplay that is both managable while still requiring consideration, meaning
A- unreactable aoes should be used sparingly in order to maintain that manageablilty and they should be counterable through various tactics
B- reactable aoes (with "tells") should still require deliberate planning and counterplay tactics even if you can react to the initial queues
- Obviously, you can look to other combat games and genres for design and balancing ideas, such as referencing fighting games as I have so far (obviously making adjustments to suit the feel, flow, and pacing you want)
For PVP, it would be nice if aoe abilities that come from enemies had a red colored version or a red circle outline to distinguish between ally and enemy. These could just be toggle options players can choose from, maybe even allow colors of their choice for enemy casts. Most MMOs tend to just leave it the same color, leaving me completely confused. I tend to jump out of aoe attacks my allies cast that I don't need to avoid, wasting dps uptime, or I just sit in damage without realizing that it's the enemies. Ally aoe casts should be shown just normally.
This lowers immersion a bit, but in a war, the immersion is pretty well broken with how many spells are going off and bursting like fireworks.
For PVE, the colors can stay the same and can be shown in their full glory.
There should be graphics settings to toggle off varying degrees of detail for spells, such as toning down the flare of aoe abilities from both allies and enemies, hiding ally aoe completely, hiding ally projectiles like frost bolts, etc. This will help with spell clutter and give people with older rigs options to help with low frame rate.
Aoe skills in PVP settings can be very powerful with things like slowing people at a choke point, so having some subtle telegraphs before the casts go off (assuming it has a cast time) would be nice.
Give AoE options to all classes as fairly as possible. For PVE, it's important that classes be able to do both effective Single Target AND AoE, otherwise certain classes will be taken over others. The philosophy should be "choose the player, not the class" and that can only be enforced by class mechanics, otherwise people will meta what does best in each situation.
Comments
PVP: Please restrict beneficial AoEs to players who are GROUPED.
Similarly, damage AoE should hit ALL pvp engaged targets (not grouped) unless specifically designed to hit a limited number of targets.
AoE abilities should not be “smart” and ignore allies/guildmates who are part of the zerg but not part of the group.
Good AoE design can be an antizerg mechanic and allow smaller, more organized, groups to “punch up”.
this way you can see what skill they use but its not overwhelming that you can not see whats going on in the world amymore.
i think that every class should have atleast like 1 aoe while some classes shine with aoe.
in warhammer online guilds and pugs roam the rvr zone that has a couple of battlefield objectives i suppose somewhat the same as nodes but a way smaller degree as its just a flag you capture like arathi basin in wow.
each guild or pug can have up to 40 memebers in it and they fight for the bo and aoe is really good for this but again its animations shouldnt block the screen but be visible
AoE in PvP (Player vs. Player):
- Players should be visually notified when they are being targeted by an AoE ability.
- Visual cues help players avoid or counter AoEs using defensive abilities or utilities.
Clarity of AoEs for Enemy and Friendly Players:
- For enemies: AoEs should be clear enough to allow skilled players the chance to avoid or counter the ability.
- For allies: AoEs should be clear for friendly players to coordinate, stack abilities, or focus damage on an area or enemy.
- Balance: Visual effects should be clear but not overwhelming, avoiding too many distracting flashes or lighting effects that impair vision.
AoE in PvE (Player vs. Environment):
- Similar principles of clarity likely apply.
Examples from Other Games:
- Some games allow settings to toggle AoE visibility for players or enemies, especially in large battles (e.g., 100v100).
- The option to adjust or turn off spell effects for better visual clarity is valued in high-intensity combat scenarios.
Key Points:
- Visual telegraphing is essential for skill-based combat.
- Clarity is crucial for both enemy and ally coordination.
- Optional settings to control AoE visibility are appreciated in large-scale battles or raids.
This is based on my own opinion I just hope the game will be great and will have its own take or spin on things but also keep things relevant. Really looking forwards to playing and I’m sure it will be a success 🙏🏼
I do like AOEs but I dislike how they get to be a "MY EYES!!! THEY BURN!!!!" as the screen gets lit up with constant AOE animations. Yes AOEs need to be beautiful to look at in an individual level but maybe if multiple casters are casting the same spell, their magics get intertwined and a just more powerful animation happens instead?
In PvP, which Area of Effect (AoE) abilities, should be telegraphed to enemies?
in PVP the ONLY telegraph maybe should be the spell windup, have them see a different spell circle for individual vs AOE spell and you have to pay attention to what they are doing, or maybe an audio que but not a circle on the ground or AOE targeting that shows where/when it goes off like PVE. PVP needs to be as minimal give away as possible
How clearly should AoEs be to enemy and friendly players? To the enemy? you never see it coming, to friendly players, you have a timer and see where it is being used, that way you can synchronize your spells to be different places and hit different people
Do your thoughts differ in a PvE setting? Obviously yes, in a PVE setting you should be able to see the spell effect area to have a chance to get out of the way, because in a PVE setting the goal is your group vs the boss and no one else, the boss itself even with the AOE effect ques should be hard to accomplish just like any other MMO
Do you have examples from other games in which AoE abilities are presented in a way you like? If so, please share them!
I like the FFXIV way they do things with the boss AOE mechanics. I do not like the multiple player AOE "light up my screen and burn my eyes" thought, just the boss mechanics AOEs
Whatever spell they tossed had a specific shape telegraphed on the ground. You could adjust the brightness and whether the floor was filled in or just an outline via an opacity slider.
Everything from pvp or pve had clear telegraphs. In PVP mass fights it would get chaotic with telegraph cones everywhere but that was kinda the point, "you are in danger in those cones and lines, so use your roll to get out."
Wildstar was a more technic themed game so the telegraphs made sense thematically. Ashes would probably have to have them be various types of magic circles\lines\cones\squares that could be adjusted in kind.
I think having options for those kind of telegraph settings is the best bet. Give the people who just wanna see just abilities but no telegraphs and the people who want them to be visible and clear what you're getting hit by.
Alliterating further from my previous thoughts, I believe visual cues are crucial for creating a competitive and balanced environment, especially in PvP and PvX scenarios. No one enjoys being sniped or obliterated by an ability they never saw coming or had a chance to react to. While I’m not suggesting we need exaggerated cones or bright triangles on the ground, there should be some form of visual and audio awareness that players can pick up on.
Take, for example, a giant fireball or meteorite dropping on your head that deals massive damage without any warning—where's the fun in that? Players should have the opportunity to use defensive abilities, either individually or through group coordination, to mitigate or counter such attacks. If it's impossible to move out of the way in time, there should at least be a chance to react. Without that possibility, the encounter becomes frustrating rather than challenging.
Imagine the caster of that fireball having a visual wind-up: perhaps spinning their staff around their head, flames surrounding them, or even a fire circle appearing on the ground where they aim, with smoke rising as a signal. Audio cues could further complement this, like the rippling sound of flames in the air. Magic circles or elemental effects that blend into the game world can make telegraphing more immersive without being jarring or artificial.
Big, hard-hitting abilities should come with clear visual wind-ups and subtle follow-up cues. One issue with many games today is the pacing—abilities are cast at breakneck speed, turning combat into a flurry of spell-slinging with little to no weight behind each attack. This not only diminishes the tactical depth of the fight but also makes encounters feel repetitive, reducing combat to a button-mashing affair. Players need time to execute their rotations, react, and engage in the back-and-forth of a good skirmish, rather than being instantly deleted by an unseen ability.
What’s needed are visual cues that aren’t overly flashy or intrusive—no fake flashing lights or unnatural effects. These cues should feel like an organic part of the game world. For instance, a mage using an earth-based ability could have a wind-up where they slam their staff into the ground, causing cracks to form before the earth breaks open and the attack strikes. These are just a few examples, but the essence is that telegraphing should be integrated naturally to enhance gameplay and give players a fair chance to react without sacrificing immersion.
I think I described everything else above.
I think friendly AoE healing abilities can be left unseen by enemies. But buff AoE abilities that work in the "dome" should be shown to enemies so that they understand whether you are under any protection in a specific area
One of the concepts of AOE is damage escalation: the more enemies (pvp) your AOE hits, the more damage it should do. 1 player - 100% damage, 2 players - 105%, 5 players - 125%, 10 players - 150%. This could be configured differently for different abilities, because there are those for which it would be very strong (chain abilities should increase damage much less)
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chain is an ability that needs to be cast for several seconds to maintain existence.
cast is an ability that has a casttime, and leaves a field on the floor for X seconds
I think there can be a lot of ideas for damage dealers, but I am most focused on AOE support and control.
AOE ability ideas:
- Silince area (cast 0.4sec)(for tanks) - create an area 3 meters wide in which you can't use the ability, which lasts 6 seconds and slows down enemies inside by 30%.
- Ring of energy (cast 0sec)(for tanks) - create a ring 20 meters long and 1 meter thick, which slows down by 80% those who enter, which lasts 4 seconds
- Curse field (chain 5secs)(someone) - create an area 5 meters wide in which 1 enemy buff will be destroyed every second
- Dome of protection (cast or chain5sec) - create a dome 16 meters wide giving protection to all players inside (or up to 20 players inside)
- Time stop (cast 0sec) - in an area 5 meters wide, time freezes for 3 seconds. Players/NPCs frozen in time are invulnerable, cannot move and use abilities. after use, a debuff appears on players that does not allow another TimeStop to be used on them
- rune of protection (cast 1sec) - creates an area 6 meters wide for 9 seconds, giving invulnerability to types of control: slowdown, knockback, and timestop.
- protective barrier (chain 5sec) - creates a dome in front of itself for 5 seconds, 4 meters wide, which pushes all players who touch it back 12 meters
- barrier wall (cast 1sec) - creates protection 5 meters wide existing 5 seconds, which pushes all players who touch it back 12 meters
General answers:
- Area of Effect (AoE) abilities are a common staple in MMORPG combat. We’re curious to know what your thoughts are on AoE abilities and the way they’re displayed.
Have a different vfx to differentiate friendly and enemy AoE
Have a difference between DoT AoE's and nuke AoE, visibility wise
- In PvP, which Area of Effect (AoE) abilities, should be telegraphed to enemies?
Have big spells/AoE's be telegraphed before they land, ie a meteor or huge blizzard.
- How clearly should AoEs be to enemy and friendly players?
Across the board agreed it should be very clear.
- Do your thoughts differ in a PvE setting?
No, people wanted it to be as clear as possible there as well. With perhaps some vfx culling.
- Do you have examples from other games in which AoE abilities are presented in a way you like? If so, please share them!
Albion online. Ragnarok Online.
I agree AoE’s are a common staple in MMORGP combat. The real question is, does Intrepid want common abilities in their game. I personally would prefer less damage AoE abilities in-game. And the ones that make it should be innovative in some way.
If Intrepid gets 200v200 avatars firing off AoE abilities, in the same space, it's going to look like a Jackson Pollock painting pasted over your monitor in short order. I suggest moderation with the Fx. I saw your Bard cameo. I thought it looked pretty good by itself, but during the PvE run the squad started to clutter up the screen, Also the AoE radius was way too large for some of those skills.
In PvP, which Area of Effect (AoE) abilities, should be telegraphed to enemies?
I’m assuming there are animations for skills and a damage log? This should be enough for players to figure out what is killing them or locking them down. Not to mention most everyone is going to alt out and experience most of the classes from the user position. However I am not opposed to baking tells into the class animations.
How clearly should AoEs be to enemy and friendly players?
I’d have to play your game before I could answer this question. I’m Alpha 2
Do your thoughts differ in a PvE setting?
I don't have an opinion on PvE
Do you have examples from other games in which AoE abilities are presented in a way you like? If so, please share them!
ArtCraft had this very same discussion for Crowfall during their early Pre-Alpha phase of development, it was clear that hardcore PvP constituents wanted less AoE, less FX spam, and better performance. And everybody else wanted flashing lights, bells and whistles, buzzers, and glitter. ArtCraft leaned into the special effects because they felt like the sensory stimulation would put ‘Butts In Seats’ and the glitter would grab the attention of potential customers/subscriptions. So we ended up with more glitter than the early player base wanted, however they did some things right with hard counter abilities, caps, and immunities, that kept the insta-kill, and perma-lock, down to a minimum while still effectively utilizing area denial, or making players spread out from the zerg ball with ticking DoTs. The blinds were fun too.
Should be separated to 2 type, one display to enemies another one doesn’t.
-In PvP, which Area of Effect (AoE) abilities, should be telegraphed to enemies?
Same answer as above.
Big aoe spell that deal good amount of damage and can be casted far away like over 35 meters from enemy should display the indicator on ground.(example: Elementalist’s Meteor Shower in GW2)
Small aoe spell that deal okay damage and only can be casted in a middle range like 15~25 meters from enemy shouldn’t display the indicator on ground and should be instant cast or has very short cast time.(example: Mesmer’s Mind Stab in GW2)
-How clearly should AoEs be to enemy and friendly players?
Same to both side.
-Do your thoughts differ in a PvE setting?
No reason to do it differently in PVE.
-Do you have examples from other games in which AoE abilities are presented in a way you like? If so, please share them!
Like above GW2 is a baseline to me.
In general I don't think that incoming AoE should ever be telegraphed to enemies using AoE markers on the ground, this completely destroys the purpose of scouting, information gathering, hiding, being sneaky etc. during fights as well as the possibility of setting traps for your adversaries (cooperation is the essence of an MMO). Once the abilities has landed and leaves an effect on the ground, either dealing damage or applies debuffs, a small indicator could be used by just having that area a different color or pattern, eg Nasus Spirit fire ability in league (https://us.v-cdn.net/6030144/uploads/editor/8a/k9efcc16b3m0.png) or like AoEs in Smite. I think that AoE abilities in Smite are very well done, you can clearly see where they are targeting most abilities and projectiles are mostly avoidable if you keep pay attention, even if they are instant cast. You can also go the route of the current blizzard ability that you have in the game and just rely on effect. My point is just that it should not be immersion breaking like FF14 or newer versions of WoW. Player awareness is also a skill to have for a good player, not just visual prowess and reaction speed.
How clearly should AoEs be to enemy and friendly players?
Stated above most of it.
Incoming dmg (like a long cast meteor) can be telegraphed to friendly players to make it easier to combine attacks but is not needed, since this can also be a skill of a well coordinated team to perfectly layer abilities (again highlighting the enjoyable interactions and cooperation aspects of MMOs).
Do your thoughts differ in a PvE setting?
No difference. PvE combat and PvP combat should work the same way, not different systems, maybe just that PvE abities should be extra telegraphed with movement/gesture from NPCs, not with AoE markers.
.
The Art and Animation should suffice to indicate what is and what is not, nothing else is further needed.
In PvP, which Area of Effect (AoE) abilities, should be telegraphed to enemies?
Animations should be appropriate for the very spell it's using. Meteors should fall from the sky, ice spikes on the ground should be actual ice spikes.
Cast times and telegraphed should be appropriate to what they do and how they used, a meteor should hit like a meteor and thus should come with a cast time and animation.
How clearly should AoEs be to enemy and friendly players?
Art should be distinguishable, visualizations and sonifications need to be appropriate, if you walk over ice spikes and they're enemy ice spikes, there should be the appropriate visuals associated with it, not a cheap indicator. More like your legs are frozen.
Do your thoughts differ in a PvE setting?
No.
Do you have examples from other games in which AoE abilities are presented in a way you like? If so, please share them!
I like damage escalation from Albion.
Yes, well... I don't hate them but I wouldn't be upset if you remove them completely from the game.
I don't like to see a lot or colored spell effects everywhere. Simple graphics are better for me.
- When caster is casting AOE (other than seeing animation of that spell on the caster himself)
- Red circle where caster is applying AOE
In other words - no warnings.After AOE is already applied, I think it's okay to make a setting where players can turn on/off red circles that will highlight AOE on the ground, could be color coded for enemy(damage)/healing/buff(friendly). However, if you make visual effects visible enough, where if player just looks where he standing then that would be ideal.
I said "to make a setting" because not everyone wants to see digital advice in games like this. Not everyone is playing with health bars turned on (in Diablo for example), some people like myself don't want to see too much overlayed on top of the screen, especially if it's against the atmosphere of the game or current mood of player. Another example would be, in some games, especially in MMO, they make an arrow of where you need to go to finish a quest - circles around AOE debuffs give the same feeling.
Personally when it comes to AOE effect, as I get older (I started playing MMOs when I was 17, and now almost 40) when doing PVP, it can be a bit overwhelming and hard to focus on what is going on within the game with AOE effect going off like firework factory just exploded. When doing PVE, because the AOE is centered on a single target or group of targets kited into one position its not an issue at all. But for PVP (especially high player volume) it turns into pure chaos and is so distracting.
It would be really nice if there was a setting, that could reduce the effects shown. Maybe just a circle ring on the ground displaying the area of effect, and eliminating all of the effects that would be shown above it.
If an Ice storm is going off, I just need to know its radius and its ground graphic. Sometimes it is fun to see the pure chaos of it all, but other times id like to not be overly stimulated (as i become an old person its getting easier and easier to do lol).
Just some food for thought.
Also players should be able to tell the difference between friendly and enemy AoEs
for persistent damage AoEs I think the most balanced way if having them start with low damage and ramp up.
I also think a lot of skills and abilities shouldn't just be either damage or a CC, for example an AoE lightning skill that can cause a shock de buff which will stun you for .1 seconds every so often depending on the stacks as well as do some small damage every time the de buff is applied.
I really hope everything isn't hit scan as well. for some skills that leave behind an aoe but still inflict a good amount of damage, lets say fireball for example. it's weakness could be it's travel time and ability to be intercepted. this would be you're aoe that isn't telegraphed and is instant upon impact with high damage
[*] I feel enemy players should be able to see both damaging and healing AoE abilities. Beyond that, I think it's valuable to show enemies some form of casting bar above the caster of the AoE ability. I think it's also crucial to have dedicated and unique sound FX that are associated with key AoE abilities that way there are visual AND auditory feedback.
How clearly should AoEs be to enemy and friendly players?
[*] I think it's only valuable for other players to see AoE abilities within a "justifiable" distance. What that distance actually is is hard to say because I haven't been in game just yet. I feel like from a certain distance away, the abilities don't need to load in. Aside from viewable distance, to avoid FX clutter, AoE's should contrast against other abilities and the environment without being so bright that you can't see other things.
Do your thoughts differ in a PvE setting?
[*] Not really, I think PvE can get super cluttered in large group settings, and in order to know where to stand during a heal AoE or where not to stand if the encounter's damage AoE, there has to be great balance between contrast, colors, brightness, and other visual aspects. Similar to PvP, I think it's important for those sound FX to exist as key indications of what AoE's are happening.
Do you have examples from other games in which AoE abilities are presented in a way you like? If so, please share them!
[*] In Elder Scrolls Online, there are visual and audible queues of key AoE's during PvE and PvP encounters. I feel like the sounds associated with different class abilities were really helpful in knowing where to be when healers, bow users, and different staff builds were using AoE's. Both in dungeons and in Cyrodiil (PvP zone).
In PvP, which Area of Effect (AoE) abilities, should be telegraphed to enemies?
Nothing that procs instantly should (or even can) be telegraphed. This means augments for instant casts that cost more or augments to cast instantly with reduced effect allow some abilities to avoid the telegraph.
Spells with areas that leave a field of effect behind are okay to telegraph, especially for friendly heals. That way it has the dual-purpose of acting like a grenade in a FPS game: you don't know WHAT grenade it is and how much it will screw your life up, you know there's a grenade nearby and to escape your current position to avoid it, or plan to take it because you trust your healers.
Beyond that I could see some application of skills and augments to create an informational push-pull, where you have some players trying to do more to obfuscate the range their AoEs can be detected at and how much anticipation is offered, vs players that have more abilities to detect AoEs incoming for themselves or even their group. A Ranger mark to see who and where the mark is targeting is one example of how to force more anticipation data out of a given source.
How clearly should AoEs be to enemy and friendly players?
Friendly AoE should be more visible but perhaps with less intense effects so they don't overlap and get too visually muddy to discern what is happening. Knowing where my beneficial places to stand are at is very useful, and knowing whether I'm in the area of a big area-buffing effect or not could be the difference between me being able to help push the battle forward or remain less aggressive for the moment compared to my more well-buffed allies.
If it isn't a buff allies + harm enemies effect, the visual area of the effect can be represented, but perhaps without a ring or box or whatever to show the area of it, either you know that wispy sinusoidal rising effect is an area buff for your adversaries or you don't, but it isn't drawn plainly to see.
The further out AoE effects are, the more diminished their visibility needs to be, but it still helps to be able to see when a distant pack of adversaries is mass-buffing from afar while they launch projectiles downstream at your allies. To that extent, some priority can be distance based relative to the player, and some relative to who you are targeting, since your focus is now on their general area as well.
Do your thoughts differ in a PvE setting?
I feel like players will learn the archetypes faster and better than each individual enemy or boss, so to that extent I'm more okay with increase AoE visibility and anticipation from enemies. We are supposed to be the heroes of the realm, and enemies can be disproportionately tough with funky patterns, so it makes sense for their abilities to be more identifiable for players to respond to them in an effective manner.
Do you have examples from other games in which AoE abilities are presented in a way you like? If so, please share them!
For a combat system with a few less enemies at a time, and a bit more active weapon comboing and defenses, I felt like the anticipations in DCUO were pretty solid. I haven't played it in a while so maybe there's some rose-colored glasses involved.
None.
2. How clear should AOE be to all other players?
It should be clear to them when they get hit.
3. Should that be different in a PVP setting?
No.
4. Examples of AOE you like.
NCSoft’s Aion ALL Spriritmaster AoE’s including but not limited to Fear Shriek which Transforms enemies within a 15m radius of you into Fire Spirits for 13s~18s, and the target becomes afraid and its movement speed is reduced.
AND
Blade of Earth which Decreases the movement speed of a target within 25m of you and all enemies within 15m of the target for 10s~12s.
AND
Sandblaster which Deals 90...110 magical earth damage to a target within 25m and all enemies within 15m of the target, and inflicts an additional 78...96
damage every 3s for 3
AND
Cursecloud which Inflicts 754 magical earth damage to a target within 25m and all enemies within a 25m radius of the target, and inflicts an additional 656 damage every 6s for 54s. In addition, whenever the target uses a magical attack on you, it suffers damage equal to 5% of its maximum HP.
Comments: These would tip the scales in PvP arenas (1v1 & 5v5), especially Fear Shriek, and no other class had anything even remotely similar. They would come off as normal spells with a cast time and a mana cost. I felt like everything depended on me, or like I really had a unique skill the group needed. It also let me express my anger in a creative way because everyone on screen would explode in convulsions at the same time.
- I like the Mage Meteor spell a lot, but I absolutely hate the floating portal in the Air they fall out of, it's very distracting visually - and also serves as a telegraph. Do not do this.
In PvP, which Area of Effect (AoE) abilities, should be telegraphed to enemies?
- AoE's should be visible to the Enemy after the cast ends, not telegraphed with a shape or outline until after the cast is complete.
How clearly should AoEs be to enemy and friendly players?
- A simple Red outline or Green outline should be more than enough.
Do your thoughts differ in a PvE setting?
- No. I don't want the game to hold my hand.
- The Firebrand Dragon was a good example, no real ground markings but you knew what was coming if you were watching the fight closely. That's all we need, keep players engaged IN the fight instead of staring at the ground looking for AoE circles.
Do you have examples from other games in which AoE abilities are presented in a way you like? If so, please share them!
- I will mention AoE Damage and AoE Healing here. Since Ashes has both Player collision, and Enemy collision too (iirc) this acts as a limit on how many things an AoE can hit. So there is no reason to use Diminishing damage/healing after X-Targets. AoE should be used strategically in battles, and player positioning to maximize your Spec and Efficiency should be rewarded!
- For example, early Final Fantasy XIV had speed runs in some of their dungeon designs. They even had Speed Runs as a Team competition at their Fan Festival! But then they changed AoE Damage to where only some targets took full damage, the rest took greatly reduced damage. This completely ruined the flow of battle. Now you have monsters of the same type dying at all different times, which would cause the DPS to be caught at the end of a rotation, and no MP to kill the remaining monsters...and stragglers chasing after the tank headed to the next pulls. It just ended up making Battle feel like a big mess.
- Diminishing AoE Damage and Healing feels bad, do not do this. It ruins the flow of battle.
Nobody likes this, it makes the fights feel clunky - and most importantly - it isn't fun.
To better explain my points, I will boil down combat into into its fundamental components to help understand the role of aoes and "tells" within your desired gameplay context.
Hopefully you don't disregard this as unapplicable, because these are general combat concepts and balancing approaches that can be applied, regardless of the actual chosen combat and balancing design.
2. AOE Gameplay goals:
My definition of "tells" are any kind of visual/audio queue or animation that allow the player to react to something that is about to happen.
A primary goal should be to avoid unskillful aoe spam, where counterplay, movement, and positioning are discouraged due to the large area of affect that an aoe can have, and its ability to shut down movement options, to invalidate positional advantages, and to eliminate the nuance of precision-based attacks and counterplay through the sheer amount of combat situations that an aoe can account for, and the amount of enemy options that it can deny/shut down.
A- Purpose of aoe
Because of its ability to simplify combat interactions, it can simplify decision making, which can good for when you want to reward a certain class for doing something good during combat, such as a ranger being rewarded for creating distance, by having a long range aoe become viable, or a fighter being rewarded for closing the gap, by having a close range aoe become viable.
I think that overall aoes should be used sparingly to retain the decision making and skill throughout the majority of combat scenarios, which is relevant to the design or aoes, and the use of "tells" for the aoe design, as I will explain.
Aoes also need to have counterplay, which is obvious, but this is relevant to the use of "tells" and how that affects different counterplay possibilities due to its affect on reactability, and the implications this has on some other combat design aspects, as I will also explain, but basically the ability to react can make an aoe a lot easier to deal with (which is done through tells), but if you decide to not use tells then there are only so many other ways you can counter an unreactable aoe without having aoe creep where you just have to give a bunch of aoes to every class to balance things. But on the other hand you also don't want to make aoes so easily reactable and counterable that they might as well not exist. In reality, "tells" and "reactability" are just a tool in the combat design in order to create the kind of combat scenarios you want to create, which means it is contextual and situational when to make an aoe reactable and give it a "tell", vs. when to allow an aoe to be unreactable, depending on other factors in a given combat scenario, like the class strengths/weaknesses, the other abilities available at that range, and their reactability, etc.
B- Preserving skill and tactics
1) safely pressuring with attacks that only work on specific options the enemy might do ("soft reads")
2) committing to fully punish specific options as hard as possible but at greater risk ("hard reads")
3) playing to maintain a positional advantage for long term gains, at the cost of punishing a specific option at this moment in time (like giving up a punish to maintain "stage control" in Super Smash Bros)
4) playing the odds of which option the enemy might do based on how many viable options that have available to them in this exact combat scenario (like "50/50s" in fighting game terms)
5) the ability to counter potential enemy options through strategically choosing to lean in to certain over-arching combat functions, like defense, offensive pressure, or positional control.
6) Precision counterattacks through skillful spacing/distance management (like knowing you have a close-range fighter ability that can interrupt and invalidate anything the enemy can do up close, as long as you can use it at its proper range/timing, and can strategically get into position to do so)
7) baiting and punishing
8) or a variety of other strategic and tactical approaches that combat skill involves
But to better understand these elements, you first have to understand some combat basics and the fundamental components of different combat interactions. I am going to give a brief overview of these components to give a better context to the follow-up points.
C- Combat components overview
For example, in Super Smash bros, if you are within an unreactable range you have to act preemptively, meaning you would have to account for every possible option that can be used at that range due to not being able to counter on reaction. This means you would have to account for dash options, short hop options, tilt attack options, smash attack options, etc. However, some of these options are very unsafe if they miss, meaning that if you can bait something like a slow smash attack, you can punish it fairly easily, meaning the enemy is less likely to use it the next time that they are in range to do so, meaning you can condition them to where you don't really have to worry about the smash attack as long as you can be unpredictable and unreactable with your timing mixups of when you enter that range. This makes it a lot easier to manage countering the other handful of options once you get into range to do so. It also means that in order to even create these strategic scenarios in range based combat, you need to have options that have the intended use-case of "missing with", where it is okay to miss with them because they are safe when missed with, in order to provide combat options for ranges outside of what you would actually connect with the enemy at (such as a "jab" with a sword that can be used from afar to defend against incoming offensive rush attempts), and conversely, you also want to have options that are meant to connect at their given range but are unsafe when missed with [such as a heavier strike that is only meant to be used at its max range, being safe enough if they avoid it at that exact max range and safe enough to challenge other attacks at that range, but unsafe if it is used too close ("mis-spaced") or of it is used outside of its max range and whiffs]. And again, the significance of this is more about the overall functions and concepts of combat rather than how that manifested through the individual combat mechanics which can be designed in various ways.
D- Implications relevant to unreactable attacks
- skillful range management
- the ability to counter potential enemy options while focusing on either defense, offensive pressure, or positional control
- the need to choose between things like soft reads, hard reads, 50/50's
- etc.
generally, longer ranged characters get more of these opportunities because they can cause these interactions to happen from further away, which is why you need to reward close ranged classes who are able to get to their ideal position with a strong "advantage state" to be able to capitalize on those fewer opportunites that they have available to cause their own interactions, which is relevant to the aoes they have available, their counterplay, and how they fit into those strategic combat methods.
E- Implications relevant to reactable attacks
Another example of reactable tells that are ambiguous to other options would be like in Super Smash Bros, if you are on hanging on the ledge you can react to most ledge options, but you cannot tell the difference between some of them on reaction, this means you can react with an option, but it might not neccessarily be the correct one if you don't account for the various ledge options that it could be. The idea of this reactability is more about being in a more "advantageous state" during a fight, where it is easier to cover the opponents options through "ledge trapping" since the timing aspect is instead reduced down to reaction. Its less about just being able to automatically react and hard counter the enemy, and more just a way to tip the scales toward the player who can put themselves into that beneficial position, because it should still require managing your options and having combat skill even if you are in that advantageous state.
The relevance of this is that the "tells" can be a way of rewarding players who are in this advantageous state per the reasons I stated about reactability, which can also be applied to different advantageous positions and ranges of different classes and what their combat goals are.
If a ranger excels at long range, then you want to reward a player who can get far away by puting them into an "advantage state" where it is more manageable to deal with the opponent's options with your own long range options. Reactability to the enemy's options is one way of giving this advantage, and "tells" are one way of provding this reactability, and "tells" that are ambigious between multiple options can retain an element of combat skill and gameplay integrity without making things to simplistic once they are in that advantageous position, such as players who are in advantage state still being required have to choose between
A) safely pressuring with attacks that only work on specific options the enemy might do ("soft reads"), or
B- committing to fully punish specific options as hard as possible but at greater risk ("hard reads"), or
C) playing to maintain a positional advantage for long term gains, at the cost of punishing a specific option at this moment in time, or
D) playing the odds of which option the enemy might do based on how many viable options that have available to them in this exact combat scenario (like "50/50s" in fighting game terms)
E) or a variety of other strategic and tactical approaches that combat skill involves.
This idea of reactability/advantage state becomes a bit more complicated when the combat goal of a specific class is to get up close and personal (like the fighter), due to the nature of being up at close range making it more difficult to react to enemy attacks. For the fighter to gain an advantage once up close, this would require either
1. "tells" to be slow enough to be reactable even at very close range, or
2. having close ranged options that can proactively counter or deal with unreactable aoes (hense the tactics I listed earlier, which could include the fighter having an aoe since they are in their advantage state up at close range, which would help to counter any unreactable aoes the enemy might have)
3. Or it could mean just not providing the enemy with an unreactable aoe at close range, and therefore no need for the fighter to account for it when trying to manage the enemy's options that the fighter would need to counter, once entering that range
3. Overall:
When they are used, they should have counterplay that is both managable while still requiring consideration, meaning
A- unreactable aoes should be used sparingly in order to maintain that manageablilty and they should be counterable through various tactics
B- reactable aoes (with "tells") should still require deliberate planning and counterplay tactics even if you can react to the initial queues
- Obviously, you can look to other combat games and genres for design and balancing ideas, such as referencing fighting games as I have so far (obviously making adjustments to suit the feel, flow, and pacing you want)
This lowers immersion a bit, but in a war, the immersion is pretty well broken with how many spells are going off and bursting like fireworks.
For PVE, the colors can stay the same and can be shown in their full glory.
There should be graphics settings to toggle off varying degrees of detail for spells, such as toning down the flare of aoe abilities from both allies and enemies, hiding ally aoe completely, hiding ally projectiles like frost bolts, etc. This will help with spell clutter and give people with older rigs options to help with low frame rate.
Aoe skills in PVP settings can be very powerful with things like slowing people at a choke point, so having some subtle telegraphs before the casts go off (assuming it has a cast time) would be nice.
Give AoE options to all classes as fairly as possible. For PVE, it's important that classes be able to do both effective Single Target AND AoE, otherwise certain classes will be taken over others. The philosophy should be "choose the player, not the class" and that can only be enforced by class mechanics, otherwise people will meta what does best in each situation.