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Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place five days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Comments
Were they wrong when they doubled down, or what?
Because the latest announcement says the exact opposite.
https://ashesofcreation.com/news/the-gatherable-spawning-system-is-evolving
As I've said before I'm not adjusting my life schedule to catch the reboots to find the super node that always drops super materials. Then setting a time to log back in to grab it again and again and again. That's not fun to do, and it won't be fun to compete with people who have done that. If the game wasn't so damn competitive it wouldn't matter. I don't think I'll sub if this remains or any other mechanic that creates the same issue. Still wish you success, but it simply won't be a game for me.
All the gathering has the same behavior. Race to node, click node, get loot.
All processing and crafting has the same behavior. Click, click, click, through the hardcoded value selector menu. Between growing a plant or tanning a hide there is no difference, I might as well be engaging in the same mechanic.
No gather, process, or crafting is unique in Ashes, it's has regressed in most aspects compared to other games. Processing and crafting is just menu clicking. Gathering is basically like it was in 2000. On top of the static materials. It's like no lessons were learned from past games and nothing was iterated on to be improved. Or maybe this is all placeholder, I really hope so, but generating hope is getting harder and harder.
The life skills in Ashes of Creation are bad.
What aspects of the current gathering system do you like and dislike?
The location of the materials I've come across make sense. If I was finding flowers on the beach that'd be weird. But generally if you're looking for something you can think about where it might be located in RL or in the lore of Vera is good.
What makes a gatherable system fun for you? What kind of scenarios would you like to see encouraged through the system? An example could be finding a high-level Surveyor to party up with, or a party to lock down a nearby cave full of gatherables.
Gathering isn't normally fun, it's normally a tedious process you need to do, to do what you really want to do, or you do it when you're waiting for friends to log in. The only way to make it fun is to actually improve the gathering mechanics. The fishing is Arch Age was a lot of fun. I general I won't compete with a group locking down a cave because the pvp penalties make it not worth it until you're cap'd and don't take exp debt (and balance issues currently). Competing to engage in an activity that isn't fun doesn't make that activity fun, competing for the sake of competing is better done in an FPS. Everything doesn't need to focus on pvp....
Are there gatherable systems in other games that you enjoy? What about those mechanics do you find fun?
1. Arch Age fishing was a TON of fun for me.
2. New world respawn. (Resource would spawn if the area when under an X number.) For example if an area had 100 hemp, once that area got to 25 hemp, it would spawn a new hemp somewhere. So an area would never get depleted. This works great for plant and rock type gatherables.
3. Hunting should be a skill. Like when you press fish, but you can hunt areas and track animals of certain type for that area. The animal gets marks for hunting which allows you to either kill it to harvest it, or bring it's health down to X% to tame it. Trapping could also be used for taming without harming. Petting to death has got to go...
4. Back to fishing. The auto fishing is okay, but drop the success rate and no rare fish. Add in catching monsters to kill afk anglers. Active fishing mini game for catching fish with a normal success rate and rare spawns. Fish should have different spawn rates in different areas. Different spawn rates for seasons and time of day. Sun raise and sun set should be prime times for fishing for certain fish. Add in bait types. Add in fish traps too.
5. Should be more caves for mining, or abandoned mines. Should be other gatherables in them too.
6. Farming. players need a place to farm even if they don't get a freehold or whatever. There needs to be an actual farming mechanic. As it is (last i tried) it's just click through a menu.
7. I could go on and on
Which of the upcoming gathering-related changes excites or intrigues you the most, and why?
I don't know what's up coming. Even if I did I don't think I'd comment on it until I tried it.
I also think it would be good to modify a resource node's respawn rate based on how often it is harvested. If the same trees keep getting cut down 10 minutes after they spawn in, then they should take longer to spawn in.
Also, I like how the trees grow from adolescent to adult over time and increase their yield. I would like to see other resources do that same thing.
Risk vs reward
1. no more static spawns, "game time" is the risk now, so we can´t have spawn camping, its anti risk vs reward.
2. Lawless zones - only area to get Heoric+ spawns = risk vs reward
3. Hunting - kill the animal, and have x % chance to get carcass, single items(like bone), or you get a Pup to raise as a mount(should be rare or very rare drop, to get a Pup), or nothing. If nothing, = glint drop. The hunting is laughable atm, as some said, "pet the animal to death".
4. Tools need to break if player is killed, so you need to repair. Low quality should be low cost, high quality tools should be high cost. High quility tools should significantly raise the number of mats you get. Lowest qulity 1-2, highest 5-7, or something like that, need to be balanced ofc. Animals higher chance to get something good. Fishing could from fishing rod, to small net and bigger net.
5. Better escape possibilities, atm you just get 2 shot, they stun you and its GG. Risk vs reward gathering system is highly dependen on the pvp balance, otherwise just forget to make it risk vs reward. When i tested Albion online, they came up with a good system after feedback from the alpha testing phase, it can be done.
6. lower mob aggro range and follow range, its a pain, its to long, and it destroy the possibility to make a good pvp/escape system.
Quality of life
1. We need classic DND, "Bag of holding", The bag system atm is not good, its probably one of the worst i have seen.
2. Storage its not a good system, its a pain. Again i can say that Albion online made a simple but great system. Both for shared storage and personal storage.
3. Auction house, we need it to sell what we gather and for all other trading. Make the system from 1 hour auction time to 24 hour auction time, pick it up or get it send to your storage for x% ekstra tax. Perfect quality of life system.(Its needed, most players are getting tired)
4. Animal carry capacity, use the animal to carry, depending on what animal you have the more it can carry. Like hippo or Timelss(dino) = high carry, or wolf and lizard = low carry(but faster).
5. The ticket system, and sell to vendor is already good, keep those system, maybe make standard/special buy orders from npc merchants to feed the caravan system. Will make gathers relevant in that economy as well.
My Mage level is 16, Mining level is 35, and Lumberjack is 22, so I gather a lot.
And boy I have feedback for you...
I like that Mining and Lumberjack are simple, go on an adventure wherever you like, navigate mobs, at-risk always being alone, danger because you're hauling valuables back to town - again alone - run around harvest rocks/trees with one button click, and hang on every inventory drop delay, like you just pulled the lever on a slot machine. The sounds are good, the ambient sounds are good, the experience is great.
What aspects of the current gathering system to you NOT like?
Static rarity is awful, get it out of the game now. Do not replace it with random static rarity either, get rid of it!
That system is literally an anti-game loop, people run around until they find something, harvest it, and log out. They are no longer playing the game, they are watching Youtube until the node is ready again. Since only they know the timer, it doesn't exist for other players.
Survey Pylons telling players what will be spawning - and when - does not solve this problem either. And NO, being able to "Triangulate" potential spawns and times with a Survey Pylon - doesn't solve this either.
There are also people - including RMT's who log in the instant servers are up - not when you announce they're up - the instant they're up - they have multiple characters with the fastest mounts to camp with, who log in, harvest, and log off again in seconds. They know all the potential spawn points, and everything is mapped out. The Legendary nodes are gone for 24 hours, in seconds! The only nodes you DO find hours later, are the nodes which are NOT valuable...
This is why your static rarity concept fails, and why your "updated" rare-nodes-move concept will fail too.
This concept of gathering makes a dead-end game loop for the rest of the player base. The average joe simply cannot compete, so there is quite literally NO incentive to ever go out Gathering at all, when you already know beforehand that you'll find no - and I mean NO - resources of Legendary quality no matter how many triple-Journeyman-bag bursting runs you make that day.
Right now, your Gathering reward is vendoring grays, and repair bills.
Greens, Blues, and Yellows are only used for leveling crafting because of the bonus XP.
People only buy Epic and Legendary from the market, which you'll never find, or be able to afford.
You should consider applying your "The unknown is exciting" concept that you use with PvP health bars, with Gathering. Hitting Granite, and Basalt with a chance to get "bonus goodies" feels really good.
But, people ride past all the Basalt and Granite, to the obviously valuable shiny nodes you can see from a mile away. I like they way these look, but they should only be visible by the correct rank Gatherer, specced into the applicable passives. No survey pylon needed either.
When you're gathering, every swing should be a pull on the slot machine, luck increased by your Rank, and your Tools, Gear, Harvesting, Rarity, and Quantity thresholds.
Survey Pylon Triangulation should ONLY be used to identify when, and where a Weekly Harvesting Event might take place. I don't care if this was in Star Wars, you need to learn from their mistakes and only use the best parts! And Survey Pylons was NOT one of the good parts!
Survey Pylons should be limited to scouting for upcoming Harvesting Events only!
For Skill Trees, I really only want passive abilities, I DO NOT WANT TO PLAY THE PIANO JUST TO HARVEST! Maybe give us one active button press ability I can spec points into that grants me Camouflage for a short time so I can harvest a single Node without getting murdered by mean ol' bear!
Gathering and Processing need to be activities the average joe can do, that don't have added "friction and conflict" forced into them just for the sake of it. That is not a gameplay feature anyone wants, so don't do it.
Same with Farming, there will be enough risk trying to raise the 100 Gold to buy a Freehold lot. Everyone agrees that there is nothing to be gained by having people get murdered while gathering eggs or processing materials on their Freehold. Nobody wants this in the game, so don't do it.
There will be enough risk in just transporting these Farmed Goods, and Processed Materials FROM the Freehold TO the Market! You'll never be able to safely do this alone, because you need to remember that invisible Rogue networks will be reporting all activity from these Freeholds!
Also, before I forget!
Every 10 levels, there should be a Goblin quest chain to upgrade only your Sanctus Resource bag size. So players can have one assorted storage slot that stacks to 20, but with the grid size of a Master gathering bag. Just one bag though. It would be a fun nod to the Goblin "Gobbie Bag" upgrade in Final Fantasy eleven!
-What makes a gatherable system fun for you?
Needs to be simple and rewarding, with great sounds and animations.
Scurrying about being a rock hound is fun activity to do when you don't have time to XP Party.
Passive Skill Tree should be able to be specialized towards what you like to do most. I do not want to play the piano to Gather, and I want to be able to swap out my Mining/Logging Clothing sets with one button press. Pulling up windows and hunting for items that all look the same to equip is very annoying.
-What kind of scenarios would you like to see encouraged through the system?
(ex. finding a high-level Surveyor to party with, or a party to lock down a nearby cave gatherables.)
Survey Pylons and Gathering Parties should be reserved for weekly Gathering Events only.
I do not want Surveying and Party gathering shoved into daily gathering just because, otherwise it loses meaning.
Your ONE Survey Pylon needs to have a LONG cooldown!
Like the spamming Node Wars, all this "Event stuff" needs to happen randomly once a week - so it remains meaningful. Because if you force it onto people, everyone will just log out until the event is over - just like they're doing right now because of the Node War spam.
Use your Siege sign-up sheets for Node Wars too, so the first ~150 people who want to go fight, can - and the rest of the citizens can keep doing citizen things.
If not, these will just become more anti-game loops, where people are logging out to avoid them instead of playing the game.
-Are there gatherable systems in other games that you enjoy? What about those mechanics do you find fun?
Any of the other Gathering systems that are simple, and don't require me to play the piano to do.
Running up and hitting F is good, don't make it more complicated than that.
-Which of the upcoming gathering-related changes excites or intrigues you the most, and why?
None of them, you're completely off the mark with all your upcoming changes, you need to listen to the players instead. You are trying to shove "friction and conflict" into areas that do not need any more than already exists.
Just do what I outlined above, and all your Gatherers will be very happy.
What aspects of the current gathering system do you like and dislike?
Likes - I think the rarity system is a good starting point to making levels of gear feel unique I'm interested in the reported change our making. I also think he variety of gatherable is good to have as a miner and a herbalist.
Dislikes - the way static spawning works is pretty miserable after a while, life on a clock is not the way you want a game to feel.
On the other side the variety of wood is pretty bad and might do better if recipe substitution came in place and you could use the T2 and T3 wood from the desert in the same places with slightly varied results.
The one thing in the whole artisan system and it might be solved when leveling becomes more balanced with leveling but currently consumables are tied to adventure level not your artisan level which I understand for exp scrolls but for the stat increases doesn't entirely make sense to me.
Are there gatherable systems in other games that you enjoy? What about those mechanics do you find fun?
I'm not a big MMO player though I've cycled through a lot over the years. looking at gaming in general though the main thing i enjoy is new discovery's and a variety of encounters. Giving a repeatable game loop a new feel when you do it over and over again is a challenge I commend for doing.
Which of the upcoming gathering-related changes excites or intrigues you the most, and why?
I'm excited that the spawn changes are happening and I give points for that as a step in the right direction.
Also the processing is huge for getting some of the stoppages out of the way from the current limitations.
What makes a gatherable system fun for you? What kind of scenarios would you like to see encouraged through the system?
This is gonna be a bit lengthy so i moved this question last. I'm gonna split this up into sections about what I've observed in the artisan system.
Skills - I think the artisan tree needs to be addressed as it should be the backbone of the system. First I saw recently that Steven said there is more of a plan for active skills to be used more than it as previously. While I would love to see some active skills for artisan's. I do think you need a parallel passive choice in the skill tree for those who want the system to be a passive experience not there main mode of playing. And for this tree and any tree in the game like the guild tree and the archetype trees I wish you'd do a little more outside the box experimenting. I feel like you might not go far enough to provide a unique to ashes experience.
mining - The way I currently see the future of mining is a system developed off of a world wide respawn chain. I'd like to discover a cave, mineshaft or mountain outcropping. This is my preferred use for mining surveying After mining it somewhere in the world in an small amount of time I'd like another vein to spawn. I'd love it to have the possibility to do group mining or not. Maybe someone else discovers the spot and you work competing to clear the most as a competitive adventure. I think spawning a majority of one resource with a secondary resource say 20 percent of it and maybe a smattering of a third. Also it would be interesting if the densest of these is where the higher rarity static spawns happen. A one per entire vein legendary toward the center of it.
Restricting certain abilities to excavate in these places could be a reasonable thing to progress for in the artisanship. Also I think it's fine if these only start at T2 and T1 is just out in the world.
I also have limited idea what the two secondary tools are used for but the drill giving access to deeper spots in these locations could work with a chance of failure or something. The gold pan could be used as a passive mining that some people ask for in to sit in a river like fishing is right now and get very small amounts of gatherable's.
Herbalism - So my view of herbalism is a more research and real time variable searching system. The idea of having a wide array of plants and flowers inherent to each biome is very cool. I think the main improvement to be made is the spawning restrictions for all of them. Example Moonbell should only spawn at night but grow flourishing in fields as a T2. Where as blood-boiled spirit bloom should only grow after a battle event has occurred, like when Tumoch is fought or a guild war is fought. Different level of events providing more spawns or higher rarities. The idea of discovering a way to cause the perfect spawning condition for a herb so you get a higher rarity chance. I'd also think rarely involving the land health in combination with node level to enable higher rarity static spawns would also further conflict to move the level 6 nodes for a higher amount of gathering certain herbs.
The different tools needed in herbalism to harvest different plants. Two handed scythe for the flower fields, single handed scythe or the bunches of flowers and the scissors or the delicate rarities.
Lumberjack - I think the main system for lumberjack is land health management. Looking at lumberjacking in it's existing state it seems far from the ideal of balancing the land health and leaving the seeds behind for future growth. The idea of overharvesting a forest to cause growth to be slow to recover is very neat and i think when it comes into effect will do wonders. the one thing I think needs work is the way a forest spreads is outward so it would be neat if the longer a forest is left to grow the more overgrown it gets and he higher rarity spawning we get. easily a defense and attack game provided by the players.
The secondary tools would be a way to add variety to the gathering like the saw having a 2-handed variant for group chopping to get a larger or faster yield.
Hunting - from what I've seen little is known about the intended hunting system, but my base level idea would involve a variety of choices while interacting with these animals. The use of the trap and bait to lure in the animal or passively capture it. The choice o kill your prey or not. Or the failure to dislodge the animal from the trap resulting in it's death. Also ideally these all would add to a sub-score as your doing this activity that could positively or negatively affect the rarity outcome.
Fishing - Fishing I think is mainly gonna be an environmental, skill and equipment game. There should be different types of fishing for different areas and biomes weather environments should provide higher chance's of certain catches. The ability to choose between a relaxing lake fishing day or the adventure of whaling with a crew at sea. Even from active fly fishing down a raging river to a muddy swamp trek. Bait as a boost from cooking or other tailoring would be a neat interaction between the artisans.
Events - In the case of conflict for gathering referring earlier in here there's the option to use a more organic approach such as the mining cluster spots as conflict but that would be secondary. I think a more event like conflict driven approach could be usable. Easily a school of fish in the open sea is an example or a growth buff because a node's level 5-6 passive causes it and trees form a massive forest. Eve then we have intended conflict for that could be further used as a gathering competition. Like I was referring to in the herbalism section certain events will lead to consequences. The ruin stage is a prime example of gathering conflict as the storage of the node is distributed after the sieged city falls. I'd prefer this over an artificially increased conflict from surveying saying a legendary will spawn here in 2 hours.
Equipment - The equipment for artisanship is a two fold problem right now. First the storage and bag issue right now, using mining as an example at JM you have nine spots per bag and three bags per bag leading to 27 total slots. Each rarity and different material can't stack so in the Riverlands alone you have 14 different materials. So you get 378 different non-stackable slots. honestly in bag at least you need a better solution. easy workaround is make it so all rarities fit in the same spot with a drop down to see the count, but I'm not a programmer so not sure how actually easy that would be.
For town storage we just need a specialized storage fix.
The other problem with equipment is the outfits and the pain to switch between them. Three solutions which provide different trade offs.
1. Provide five slots for each outfit above novice here you can reduce the combat stats provided but this also gives someone advanced in artisanship a certain balance as someone not devoted to combat
2. Slightly different but have four sub-slots that just give the artisan bonuses
3. Add an outfit grouping ability of some kind so you can put a single button press on your bar to change to a different outfit.
Conclusion
So these are my musings about the future of the system that I mainly want to interact with in Ashes. It's a combination of things I've listened to and discussions I've seen and had and things I've interpreted from the wiki. Also I could very well be off base for a lot so continuous discussions from Intrepid as more and more systems come online provide a good outlet to share my thoughts. Intrepid you're doing good work looking forward to more.
Like
Players need to fulfill certain requirements to be able to gather higher ranking materials, but can still find the locations itself.
Dislike
- Players are able to know when a material spawns in which quality on what location.
- There is no system in spawning. Every material can spawn everywhere. The location itself feels random.
What makes a gatherable system fun for you? What kind of scenarios would you like to see encouraged through the system? An example could be finding a high-level Surveyor to party up with, or a party to lock down a nearby cave full of gatherables.- The Location of the Material is realistic
- materials don't spawn in the exact same location
- my character and I as player matter in what quality and quantity I get
- teamwork matters for some materials
- the quantity and respawn time depends on the kind of material. (For example flowers grow faster than stone)
Are there gatherable systems in other games that you enjoy? What about those mechanics do you find fun?I really liked the gathering in Final Fantasy XIV. The spawn locations are understandable and the progress in your level maters for the quantity and quality you gather. Also you have a notebook where the character automaticly adds the general location where materials where found. And you have to use skills (minigame) instead of just waiting.
Which of the upcoming gathering-related changes excites or intrigues you the most, and why?
I like that spawns are supposed to be more logically and less random in the choice of locations.
Additional thoughts
I don't understand the planned survey system. For me "Testers will also be able to gain information about gatherables that are waiting to respawn, giving them the opportunity to contest these respawn areas." sounds like you get information on when a material will spawn and what quality it will have. But that would increase the "some testers have mastered ways to optimize gathering spawn times"-problem, giving them even more ways to master the spawntimes, while other aren't even able to get next to these materials.
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[*] What aspects of the current gathering system do you like and dislike?
The "feel" of gathering is nice, though the soundscape could definitely do with a pass.
The abundance of gatherables is great, the predictability of precisely where they will be is not. They absolutely should be randomised sufficiently that no "farming route" can be ever be set, but rather people will search around biomes looking for potential nodes within it.
I understand the argument about "fighting over a node" - that will still happen with those searching for random nodes, and might even encourage people to take out competition in a specific area and/or biome. The cost of static spawns being so farmable far outweigh any benefit. Randomness far outweighs any benefits of static gatherables.
Unless you're a bot, or specifically only want to PvP at a gathering node, there isn't really a reason for then to be static. See someone gathering a rare node you've just spotted? Well, there's your competition, now you're faced with the choice of confrontation in a more unexpected manner. This is what creates memorable stories and adventures no matter your task. Standing at a spawn location and trying to be the first to click it does not.
[*] What makes a gatherable system fun for you? What kind of scenarios would you like to see encouraged through the system? An example could be finding a high-level Surveyor to party up with, or a party to lock down a nearby cave full of gatherables.
Randomness - the chance of finding something rare by sheer dumb luck can be a real joy, finding a surprise cave full of gatherables would be IMMENSE.
Interactivity - right now it's press INTERACT and wait. Some form of engaging gathering system would be nice, provided it strikes the balance between something that is relatively chill as an activity, but not *so* chill that it's boring and a waiting game. Being able to influence your odds of finding more of a resource, or a rare drop from a common node, through some form of interaction AND gear/tools would be a great addition,
[*] Are there gatherable systems in other games that you enjoy? What about those mechanics do you find fun?
New World has a fantastic soundscape to gathering which definitely enhances the feel of it. It's about the only thing worth taking from New World (except the already in use abundance of being able to harvest almost any flora, tree, rock etc, which is fantastic). But the soundscape really brings life to gathering, and to hearing others chopping trees and the sound echoing through the woodland.
[*] Which of the upcoming gathering-related changes excites or intrigues you the most, and why?
The randomness by far. I recall the dev video some time ago about "cracking open a rock" to see what lies within it. Some mixture of random "uncracked" spawns to really entice exploration in the open world will alone be a game changer, but throwing in the unknown rocks with potentially *anything* in side really captures the joy replicated in finding a shiny pokemon, seeing a purple item drop, pulling a valuable card from your deck, etc...
HUNTING: Make hunting where the hunter gets an animal. Period. Not a corpse OR live animal. Just the animal. THEN, the hunter can choose to kill it for tanners or keep it alive for husbandrists.
GATHERING PVP EVENTS: I really don't like the idea for conflict-driven gathering. BUT, if you're going to do it, make it a spectacular event !
See that blown-up moon in the sky? Make a fragment that comes crashing to the ground that leaves some rare minerals in a small area. Now teams can come together and fight over the rare resources.
I don't think the resource should be fully exclusive to the event...just available in higher quantity. Groups/Guilds can bring their highly skilled gatherers with high level rarity ratings to hope for more high rarity materials.
I saw your solution and update to the gathering system and on paper, its exactly what I want! I love the idea of surveying becoming more engaging as that is a system I will be interacting with a lot and makes gathering more active compared to just running around and hitting F.
Static nodes do not promote conflict, and I dont mind if there is some form of static spawns, maybe <10% compared to the rest of the world, but it should be a minority of the gatherable "pool". I think my biggest comment is that I love the complexity of Ashes and forced interaction with other people. BUT. There should be more casual activities, such as gathering to an extent. AoC needs to maintain a healthy population and if everything is too hardcore, it will die off quickly, so please consider a fine balance between difficulty, accessibility, and forced conflict on every single system.
To sum it up, your intended gathering update looks fantastic and I will provide more feedback when it comes out.
*****One Idea is maybe even as someone gathers they get "damaged _______ item" because if you are new at something you don't have the experience as the guy that's a journeyman or higher, they have learned not to damage the wood as an example.*****
Thank you!!!
I have fun in pvp but boy does gathering/processing/crafting feel bad after coming back a month or 2 later. All the items are scarce and puts too much emphasis on shoving them into the trade market and buying all your mats. There's far too much disparity in how we level gathering. Fishing you just stand there. Everywhere else you have to trek the world for deforestated stretches of land for that one little copper/stone. And then we make 200 basic copper armors and they are just sold to the vendor if they didn't proc a higher rarity.
This gameplay loop doesn't feel good. Dynamic spawning near caves and flowers near certain trees sounds cool on paper but there aren't really going to be as many roaming pvp groups as you think who are hunting gatherers. And tbh even if there were more "bandit" type players, I think that just pushes players away and doesn't cause conflict as much as morale loss and salty tastes in potential gatherers mouths.
There needs to be a way to recycle those crafting items we use to level up. New players need to be able to catch up somehow. That's a huge turn-off and something Steven might want to rethink. We've all heard it a million times: First impressions are everything! (And good combat :P) The new player experience needs to have a consistency of some kind.
I first would like to say how much I love AoC although we are far away from release I have still enjoyed every moment of testing.
One quick idea for gathering, is if you want to add “risk vs reward” to the gathering system I believe you should have higher rarity items spawn in lawless zones. This adds more conflict and have a lower percentage of rarity respawn around a variety of places outside of lawless zones throughout verra.
Lmk what you think
I'm really glad about his, but I'm concerned a flaw of this severity had to make it to this level to change. I can understand that there's much going on with the development, but is this a glimpse of the response time we should expect for other critical fixes/balances in the future. This flaw changes the way people gather and interact, the amount of materials gathered, and so on. It probably tainted the testing data and will have lasting effects on the realms.
[edit]
The surveying and artisan updates sounds really good. I'll jump back in to test these when a new class drops.
i like that theres a chance to get other materials when mining rocks like copper, coal and iron. i think it would benefit the game to make it the other way around as well while making both spawn in similar amounts.
i dont like about this system that the chance to get something on top is so low. my sample of a few hundred gave me roughly a 1.9% chance to get something out of basalt and granite. for me as a miner that didnt feel worth it to even try.
i dont like the static rarity.
What makes a gatherable system fun for you? What kind of scenarios would you like to see encouraged through the system? An example could be finding a high-level Surveyor to party up with, or a party to lock down a nearby cave full of gatherables.
im a casual gatherer. i like to pick up some stuff on the way. im also interested in group gathering as events for big resource spawns where friction can happen. both should be there and viable. i would also like to be able to gather with multiple players on a gatheringnode and some little buff for them doing it in a party.
Are there gatherable systems in other games that you enjoy? What about those mechanics do you find fun?
im not a big gatherer. i liked the active and passive fishing in black desert online. for those events with bigger nodes i could see the gatherers use minigames to improve rarity and quantity of their gathering. i dont think its fun to do this at random gatheringnodes.
Which of the upcoming gathering-related changes excites or intrigues you the most, and why?
i like the change to dynamic gathering as it benefits casual and low time investment gatherers. giving every node a chance to be legendary makes every node i see more intriguing.
i also like the logical spawning so if i want to look for something specific i have an idea where to go.
i also really like the idea of spawn clusters that get announced in some way so people can gather up and get there to compete for those. i dont think that system needs a pvp option like caravans. we can do guild wars and flag up for that. i only fear that guildless alts could be an issue for that, but maybe not when we reach master and gm resources and lvls.
surveying as a tool to see what rarity gatherables have and if some respawn soon (30min) in a closer area is good. using another surveying tool to cover a large area to search for specific resources sounds really nice as well.
allowing all job sizes is really needed. this game is about being complex and intertwined, not about inconvenience
same goes for the mix and matching in processing.
i am not sure about the gather items to be equippable items. i like the idea of being able to trade them, but i think we already have issue with general inventory space. so id like them to be similar to quest items in a special bag where they can be. i dont want a system where i need to reeqip myself infront of every node i gather. that means that i want to be able to have always some gear for herbalism and mining equipped as well as the tools and be able to just move through verra enjoying my time. tldr no inconveniance pls.
that could also mean to take away the combat stats that they provide atm. im not sure if that was a good idea in general.
in conclusion: im happy with the direction your going. tweaking on the way
Hi, I hope everyone is having a great day!
What aspects of the current gathering system do you like and dislike?
I really enjoy the vast variety of resources and how almost everything in the world feels gatherable. It creates an immersive experience, making the world feel alive and interactive. I also like that gathering can create natural conflicts over resources, adding an element of competition.
One thing I don’t like is that the contest for resources often revolves around their rarity rather than theirpresence in the world. For example, if an emerald node appears, players compete simply because it’s a high-value item. I would prefer if the gathering system allowed for a more organic surprise—where players don’t know in advance what rarity they’ll get until they harvest the node. This would keep the act of gathering exciting without creating predictable "rush" patterns.
I dislike that gatherable resources are too evenly spread out across the world. It would be more engaging if different areas felt more specialized, requiring some level of knowledge or exploration to find specific materials.
What makes a gatherable system fun for you?
For me, an ideal gathering experience comes down to two main scenarios:
Intentional Gathering: I head out with the goal of finding specific resources. This should require some level of discovery, research, or dynamic world information rather than a set spawn pattern that turns into a repetitive race. I don’t want a system where everyone knows exactly when and where nodes respawn, leading to predictable farming routes.
Dynamic Discovery: Instead of a rigid spawn system, I’d love if nodes worked more like veins—where resource-rich areas last for a period of time before depleting and respawning elsewhere. This would create a more organic and immersive gathering experience, as opposed to a repetitive "timer-based" resource chase.
I also think gathering should encourage cooperation and party play, rather than being a solo efficiency race.
Are there gatherable systems in other games that you enjoy?
I appreciate systems that feel dynamic and immersive, rather than predictable and grindy. For example, I prefer procedural spawn mechanics over fixed node locations. A great concept would be resource-heavy dungeons or instances where gatherers and PvE players can team up.
Imagine an instanced gathering dungeon, where the available resources, enemy spawns, and layout change each time. This would allow gatherers to hire mercenaries or group up with PvE players to explore a dangerous but rewarding environment, making gathering feel like an adventure rather than a chore.
Which of the upcoming gathering-related changes excites or intrigues you the most, and why?
I’m most excited about changes that make gathering less predictable and encourage more natural competition. Anything that reduces the "log in at the right time, run a set path, and race for nodes" approach would be a massive improvement.
If there are systems that encourage dynamic discovery, gathering party play, or instanced gathering areas, I think that would make the system significantly more engaging.
Looking forward to hearing everyone’s thoughts!
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Great summary. This needs to be thumbed up and reviewed over and over.
The big clusters of rare resources that are we supposed to fight over sounds like another feature that only helps the large guilds while cutting off the smaller guilds (and casual players too).
Not everything needs to be oversaturated with PvP where bigger numbers win. Not every feature in the game needs to be appealing only for zergs. We already have enough systems that are based around this flawed logic, like caravans and world bosses, and the small guilds are already getting cannibalized because of these.
I hope you are going to consider this while developing this system.
I also like the idea that the highest gathering is in dangerous areas, perhaps requiring a party to navigate. this is a method for controlling the amount of legendary materials in the system.
Its been my experience that gathering is typically a solo experience. It would be great if there were benefits and incentives to do so as a duo or party. Perhaps some trees that can't be cut down solo, some nodes that can't be mined solo - some herbs that are too delicate to be cut by only one set of hands.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCP31ixSBO7GHKLBefWVcJaA
Like: the amount of "stuff" you can use to influence gathering (pylons, consumables, tools)
Dislike: gathering being a simple interaction, making botting quite easy
I would name three components for the gathering system that I as a player notice: complexity, exploration, interctivity.
Complexity is somewhat there with pylons, consumables etc, enabling an economy, but the resources are still somewhat "static" thus the exploration part is not there (scouting the same area over and over to find the "rare" node spawn doesnt improve the gameplay). Inteactivity would be adding a minigame after you interact with the node, othewise its essentialy downtime for player.
Star Wars galaxies had a nice solution to exploration where resources were essentially a noise function underground that would change location after getting depleted, in the end, nobody cares if gatherable trees grow on river banks or the desert, it's only people that dont interact with the system on a serious level that care about the landscape
What I would call "interactivity" was how Crowfall solved this where the act of gathering was an actual action-based activity where "weaksposts" would show on a node for you to "hit" damaging the node to destroy=gather it while using your stamina. If not making it an action gameplay, maybe it could be done so that when one interacts with a node, gatherer gets a slider that goes left-right with a sweetspot marked and if the user clicks in the right moment, it speeds up the gathering by a fraction, so a person can chose to interact with the minigame and speed up his/hers gathering process. This could also add depth by adding a stat on consumables that would make it easier to "hit the sweet spot" making it wider. In crowfall the depth came from it being an action gameply event + having skills to make you hit harder/use less stamina etc.
Another interesting conept from crowfall was Mothernodes and node armor. Mothernodes were nodes that needed several people to attack them at the same time to be able to break them, enabling group-gatherer gameplay. It also enabled the "foreman" class which was the player that would essentially buff gatheres around him/her (like an orca in EvE for example).
I'm looking at the spawning system in terms of botting and how it will be stopped/discouraged.
Taking into account what I wrote above, we can conclude that the current version of the resources offered for collecting has an extremely negative impact on the economy, which is why resources with below-average quality become junk after a short period of time because they are used to develop the profession and no one needs them after that
It is necessary for players to use and apply resources of unusual and rare quality on an ongoing basis, and those who could afford to use much rarer resources for their own purposes, paying for them with their playing time or game gold, the payment should be sufficient for only one name of the quality of the resource - Heroic, epic and legendary.
The surprise of:
- running into new unique characters and players
- coming acrossed rare gatherables for "eureka" moments
- of stumbling upon hidden areas and secrets
The adventure of:
- getting wrapped up in some mystery you become invested into trying to unravel
- of things going unexpectedly and taking you down a path you didnt plan for requiring you to react and adapt
- of getting yourself into a sticky situation
- the unknown, risk, and mystery elements
The collection and progression aspects:
- like building your collection of materials to assemble unique gear
- recruiting other players you come acrossed into your crew
- basically adding to your "collection" as applicable to any given system in the game.
- the customization that your gatherables and the itemization empowers you to do
- The expression of yourself through your choices of what you use your gatherables for
- The feeling of finding or assembling something cool and unique that not everyone else might have found or has not figured out how to do yet.
- etc.
The exploration of:
- taking in the scenery, landscape, soundscape, and atmosphere as you explore
- finding new and cool things, like little sub-cultures, local vendors, local wildlife, etc.
The skill/strategy/satisfaction of:
- how satisfying the act itself of gathering the gatherables (like mining a dense cluster of rocks and then picking up a huge pile of stuff all at once)
- Its becoming more efficient and optimizing how you gather.
- Its about the "eureka" moments of finally seeing a gatherable you want, and then having to work to get it (like a jumping puzzle, a boss gaurding it, having to traverse using movement and utility skills to get to a tricky to reach spot, etc.). Being challenged and rewarded for your effort and skill.
The way I propose it should work is based on the tier of material. So Tier 1 materials like Oak or Copper or Daffodil's should only be able to be Common or Uncommon, maybe Rare. Tier 2 materials could then be Uncommon or Rare, Tier 3 Rare or Heroic, etc.
This also fixes the problem (which is a problem, in my opinion, but some people may disagree) of walking around at level 10 with Legendary Copper Armour. It makes no sense for crafted gear at level 10 to be Legendary rarity.
What aspects of the current gathering system do you like and dislike?
With the current form, the feeling of 'I want [__] so I go [__] or buy from someone who goes because I don't want to go' is weak and does not incentivize engagement, immersion, or even the will to log in to exist.
What makes a gatherable system fun for you?
It all comes down to the above, whether it be gatherables or mobs. It can't be directly progression though, because that runs out/gets warped/messes with incentives. It has to be 'progression within one's chosen path'. A good enough economy covers this though. Minigames that fit the mental model of the player who likes the craft often help, but aren't vital.
What kind of scenarios would you like to see encouraged through the system?
Paying attention to dynamic weather, and dungeon/POI delving to use special crafting stations. Open World.
Are there gatherable systems in other games that you enjoy?
Speaking primarily in MMORPG terms, this is the spot where the answer is personal (my group members will be poked to expand on their stuff for this only, now that I've written enough essays on the rest...
Personally I like almost all gathering systems because I think so abstractly, but if we're talking about Itemization as an integral part of gathering, then MineCraft is fine, BDO is usually at least okay but suffers when I want an actual incentive, FF11 is fine, except Chocobo Digging which is the best thing ever (but I do not need nor particularly want replicated anywhere). Throne and Liberty is getting there, I definitely have a few 'spots' in that game, especially because they are at the 'mildly dynamic weather' stage.
What about those mechanics do you find fun?
I want, therefore I go. If I want enough different things, the dynamism determines where I go, who I meet, the relationships I have with people who have similar interests.
In FF11 I knew the other high level chocobo diggers by name because we were always competing for the good zones, and whoever was most prepared for the weather and moonphase combination on that day would win out using various strategies.
Similarly, you could 'leave a zone to someone else' out of 'respect' knowing that while you COULD compete for the big ticket items, you didn't share the Artisanship skill that goes with the bulk of what you get for that zone, so you 'leave it to them' rather than both of you spending the same time for 'half the profit'. Or if you didn't like them you could do it anyway for 'spite' ofc.
It's hard for me personally to say what I find fun, but for the group feedback in case they don't touch this one, the first line is the important one.
Which of the upcoming gathering-related changes excites or intrigues you the most, and why?
It's hard to be excited about the installation of boilerplate experience, I think. No group members have expressed any meaningful interest beyond 'oh you mean they might stop doing it the utterly stupid way? Well, that's good'. The changes are moreso removing a pain point, but they don't, as of now, even raise the gathering to 'getting a passing grade'.
That's relative to the 'final exam' though, and it seems like y'all are still in 'week 2 of the semester', so for now, keep doing your best, we (mostly) believe in you!
"For what...?"
"Just about everything, really."
Anyway, as noted Azherae is noting most of our groups feedback. Here is my separate additional feedback:
Are there gatherable systems in other games that you enjoy?
I genuinely enjoy BDO gathering/lifeskilling and really thought this was the direction AoC was intending to go with their system before the clarified that it was not. What makes BDO's gathering enjoyable? Well, it does a good job of the 'pattern of search' that gathering typically rewards. BDO has very realistic environments if you ignore the mob placements. So finding an actually gatherable node is a skill as is finding profitable clusters of them. Because the world of BDO is so vast you are rewarded with knowledge when you explore the map with these possible clusters. I will also add that BDO has systems that make hunting mobs an actual part of gathering through their blood siphoning and tanning. I'm not an alchemist or a leatherworker but I am a farmer and a costume maker in BDO and having the option in an immersive way to participate in those in a cross discipline way without necessarily making me 'need to be involved in those trades entirely' is something I find appealing. Hunting mobs needs to be involved in any good crafting system imo.
I will say that TL is starting to get to the same place as BDO when it comes to the 'pattern of search' and 'reward for exploration' with their recent expansion. However the map is too small and crafting is too simplified for it to stand on it's own. It can get there and I've been noting they even added hunting style mob drops to certain lists which has expanded how relevant hunting mobs is to cooking. If we could just get farming, alchemy, and a little more complex in the recipies....
FFXI has a pretty good gathering system, but I found it personally less enjoyable because of how sparse and uncomplex environments are. This is something that is really effected by the age of the game, not really the core design. If there was a graphics update to make environments keep their vibe but have more complex foliage and pallet to make identifying a node more meaningful as gameplay and not just 'hey there is the shiny thing' it would be a lot higher up in my list. I will say that crafting as a system is so well developed that as a farmer I don't really 'need' gathering to be more than it is in FFXI to enjoy the game as a crafter.
Lastly since there isn't a good place to put it, I'll say mechanically I really value event based alterations to loot tables for gathering nodes like weather, seasons, or dynamic events (big boss in the area). I need to care as a crafter that it is raining right now in TL so I can go pick up my necessary crab claws for making my seafood! This isn't to say I want certain options locked off. In TL you can still farm hermit crab meat when it's dry, but the rain gives a very meaningful boost because crab claws give you slightly more output when cooking which is reason enough to get them, although yes there are exclusive recipes for it as well. This is something I expect is super important to AoC gathering. IF not well.......
Are there gatherable systems in other games that you enjoy?
So far I've been really enjoying TL since their fishing update. The other gatherables still need work, but the idea of "needing to know the lay of the land, the weather conditions and the timing in order to find the specific thing you want" makes the world feel much more alive and locations feel more real even in a game with fast travel. I wish that they extended this onto other gatherables beyond just herbs and startrees reacting to rain, but even that is still a big plus in my book (if I want apples, go to Purelight Hill when it rains). I think that their gathering of ground resources would go from "good" to "great" with more diversity in materials similar to the fish, encouraging you to really learn every zone and understand what they have to offer.
What about those mechanics do you find fun?
Most of my fun in an MMO during the "downtime" (i.e. when the guild isn't raiding) is wandering the world tripping over cool stuff and telling the guild about it. Having gatherables be reliably predictable based on geological, meteorological and biological patterns makes you want to understand the world, and makes it feel more alive. If I know that a certain kind of tree only grows on a certain mountain range elevation, it will make locations that fit that ideal more memorable. Once you add weather and day/night cycle, it also makes gathering its own impetus - the feeling of "it's raining, I better go get some apples" is itself a drive to engage with the system.
Focus on making gathering POIs distinct and relevant to the biome they're in, and you will naturally create a gameplay space with them. I don't want to run into rubies in the middle of a meadow and find that mountains don't have much different spawns for the sake of "fairness". Make all the miners have to find obscure rocky spots or fight over the common ones - that's gameplay right there.
Are there gatherable systems in other games that you enjoy?
What about those mechanics do you find fun?
The common theme for me is gathering systems which reward exploration and an understanding of the geology and ecology of a location. For instance, knowing that specific type of ore spawns most often in a particular mountain valley, or that you have to go into the forest just after it rains to get a rare mushroom.
However, I specifically dislike systems in which resources always spawn at a fixed location, because this makes gathering about rote memorization and optimization for static parameters, rather than open-ended exploration.
I also like gathering systems where acquisition of resources is tied directly to the player's goals. In Subnautica, as an example, I might be motivated to try and find uranium ore to power a deep sea base more efficiently. Or, in TL, I could try and find a specific type of mushroom to craft food I need for a co-op dungeon I'm running with my guild later in the day.
I think mostly gathering systems work best when they're tightly integrated into the core gameplay loop, reactive to environmental conditions like rain and time of day, and open-ended enough that there isn't a single optimal approach to resource gathering a player should take.