Dev Discussion #76 - The New Tester Experience

Dev Discussions are an opportunity to join in on player discussions about topics that Intrepid Studios want to hear your thoughts on. This is less about asking us questions, and more about us asking YOU the questions! If you do have questions about Ashes of Creation, keep an eye our social media channels for our monthly Q&A thread, check out the Ashes of Creation community wiki, or try the #questions channel in Discord!

In this thread, we’ll be discussing:

Dev Discussion - The New Tester Experience

With the development of new zones, we look to refine the First-Time User Experience (FTUE). We want to be clear: the Riverlands FTUE was just this system's first, most basic iteration, and by no means a final representation of our intended quality. While we’re not aiming to develop this into a full-featured experience quite yet, we aim to make it more intuitive, informative, and enjoyable. With exciting developments happening on new zones, we want to improve the new-player experience. We have a few prompts below which you can answer to help us!

We’d love your thoughts on:

What did you enjoy most, or least, about your first-time user experience in the Riverlands?
Is there anything about your first-time experience that you wish were different?
Tell us about the worst and best things you experienced as a new tester!
What confused you most during your first few hours of play?
Which quests or sections did you enjoy the most and least as a fresh tester?
How do you feel about the NPC dialog and their responsiveness in the starting area?
What did you think of how crafting is introduced? Is there anything you wish were different regarding how crafting is introduced?
How did you feel about your rate of progression throughout the Riverlands intro area?
How did you feel about the rewards you received in the Riverlands intro area?
Assuming you’ve tested past the Riverlands intro area, is there anything you feel was missing from your time there as a new player?

Don’t feel limited to the thought-starters above. Feel free to drop whatever feedback you have regarding your experiences with the FTUE of the Riverlands zone below 👇

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Comments

Ludullu

I loved Lineage 2's Guild Academy system.

New players (below lvl40 out of 80lvls) could be invited to a special part of the guild. Once they leveled to 40 and did a profession quest (think classs acquisition in Ashes) they'd be auto-kicked from the guild and the guild would get some benefits. The earlier the player was invited - the bigger the benefit to the guild. This part of the guild would not be involved in guild wars, so these newbies were protected from that.

The member slots in this part of the guild were limited, so strong guilds would want those newbies to lvl up as soon as possible, so that the guild receives as many benefits as it can. This meant that the guild would give some gear to the newbies and even help with lowbie pvp, if they were bullied by someone.

This setup would usually lead to guilds almost fighting over newbie onboarding. Some would just try to invite any newbie they see. All would advertise their Academy by giving as much money/gear on invite as possible.

And this whole process would also accustom the newbies to the server's culture. Show them internal interactions of guilds. And fairly often would lead to those Academy alumni joining the guild later, if their vibes matched the guild's.

Imo this is an amazing system. And I know that we're supposed to get the mentorship program in Ashes, but from what has been discussed about it before, it seemed more of a personal 1-on-1 feature, rather than a guild-based thing.

In the context of testing itself, we all know that testing is easier in a group and even easier in a guild. I think a system like the one above would go a long way to help new testers integrate into the realm's life and test way more systems in a much better way.

JamblusGloo

GrappLr

1. What did you enjoy most, or least, about your first-time user experience in the Riverlands?
Answer: What I most enjoyed was the feeling of progression every time I gained a level. Starting with one spell, it feels great to get the next few ones and see my power level grow as I get access to very cool combos. What I enjoyed least was the way that grinding was done. A game like WoW Classic feels much more fun in terms of fresh start, with lots of quests to run around and chase. But I'm aware that quest chains are not quite implemented yet, so I'm hoping to see improvement here.

2. Is there anything about your first-time experience that you wish were different?
Answer: Yes. I wish there was a closer match to how fast you level alone when compared to in a group. I think in an ideal world, a group that is being efficient should be maybe 20-30% more efficient than a solo player. But the way it is now feels like group play is significantly better than that. But this could also be due to the fact (like question1) that quest chains are not quite where they need to be, and their XP rewards will be able to close this gap a bit.

3. Tell us about the worst and best things you experienced as a new tester!
Answer: Best were feeling of progression, love the Rogue class, dropping loot (equipment) feels really good.
Worst was probably randomly being killed by guards if I looted someone (and turned purple). Happened more than once. It's intuitively very hard to know when you're safe to loot someone's body and when you're not.

4. What confused you most during your first few hours of play?
Answer: Not my first time playing, so very little was confusing. I'd say that for a new player, possibly the most confusing part would be something like "how do I flag for pvp". It's very unintuitive. Someone can attack you, you can't attack back. Makes very little sense. I've seen level 15+ players not know how to flag.

5. Which quests or sections did you enjoy the most and least as a fresh tester?
Answer: Funny enough, probably the most enjoyable quest was the one where I can turn in multiple times goblin junk, as it's actually good xp. Quest lines right now feel horrible because the rewards in terms of xp simply suck.

6. How do you feel about the NPC dialog and their responsiveness in the starting area?
Answer: It's simply ok. Could be better. Also, not being new, it's meaningless, because again, the xp rewards are meaningless. Grinding is ridiculously superior, so who cares what they have to say.

7. What did you think of how crafting is introduced? Is there anything you wish were different regarding how crafting is introduced?
Answer: It feels pretty good I'd say. I think gathering needs tons of work though, in two separate categories:
a). It sucks that trees/rocks/etc. respawn at their previous rarity level (so people that find a legendary one just camp it, nobody knows it's legendary). Maybe this was fixed recently, I hope so.
b). It's impossible to know if someone is farming/getting high rarity gatherables, so it's literally never worth ganking someone in pvp and going corrupt to kill them, as you have no idea if they have anything on them. I'm a firm believer that games like Albion have it right, where you can see the rarity of the gatherable you're harvesting. It brings upon competition, and can even cause PvP to organically happen right around the source. This would especially be interesting if the time required to gather a legendary piece of wood/rock would be prolonged, so that there's time to engage and prevent someone from finishing the gathering, again, creating organic pvp.

8. How did you feel about your rate of progression throughout the Riverlands intro area?
Answer: It's ok. But everything is relative. I'll say this over and over, it feels very bad that solo progression is so slow compared to group progression. Group progression (when being optimized for) should be maybe 30% faster than solo progression, at most. Right now it feels like it's 2x+ Again, maybe, with quest lines, this gap will be closer.

9. How did you feel about the rewards you received in the Riverlands intro area?
Answer: Quest rewards? Only good one was probably the goblin random loot turn in, since the grinding of those mobs is actually decent xp, so the quests is a zero downside positive. Other than that, the random events can feel pretty nice. Normal quests, felt meh.

10. Assuming you’ve tested past the Riverlands intro area, is there anything you feel was missing from your time there as a new player?
Answer: This playtest specifically, I did not leave the Riverlands, I'm still a low level.

Neurotoxin

Can't buy much gear from vendors, few quests give gear, gear drops are scarce, and the cost and material requirements for crafting are way too high per completed item. New users with zero prior experience will feel this pretty hard, especially since starter weapons didn't seem to get an attribute quantity increase like the rest of the gear. I'm sure you're keeping an eye on it internally, but I'll be surprised if anyone goes hard into processing or crafting before the May 8th update in hopes that the increased materials per craft was an accident and will soon be reversed.

TimeFire

COMMON GEAR SHOULD BE COMMON!

TimeFire

Serious post now, the start of this testing phase feels bad to play, hard to put into words exactly what it is but I know for a fact that it does not feel rewarding and there is no sense of progression with the current loot drop rate. I should not be at max level after farming mobs that drop loot and only have 1 or 2 common loot drops. I hope it is a bug because common rarity gear/weapons/item drops are not common, they are more rare than rare drops.

How I would fix this:

1. Add a modifier to every mob dropped gear like 'rusted' 'patched' 'cracked' etc. to show that it is a non-crafted item. This modifier should reduce the stats permanently of the item by 10-20% to guarantee that crafters are the best source of gear and can not be replaced. (You could go farther by making drop gear unenchantable or even unrepairable.)
2. After the reduction of stats, massively increase drop rates, make common loot drop every 5-10 kills.

Getting some drops feels rewarding, getting none feels terrible and pointless. The whole reason I suggest nerfing gear stats and other effects is just to justify massively increasing drop rates. I farmed 3 named mobs within my level range on the mobs respawn for 6 hours with 5 others and only 2 gear dropped (I was unlucky and lost both rolls). This will kill the game as very few have the time or the desire to grind for little to no reward, I would not feel like I had wasted my time if I had at least received a common item of those drops.

Until this is changed in some meaningful way (doesn't have to be what I suggested here) I will not be playing much at all.

Nephrium

VERY first time player here. I tried to play last night and my game froze in the first 30 mins. Tried to play this morning and my game froze in the first 30 mins. Also the character creator was difficult to use. I'd like to play more and tell you more, but that's all I got.

Xmt

Maybe my opinion is a bit uncommon and goes against the majority, but I find it strange to stand in the same spot for hours just killing mobs. I'm not saying I dislike grinding, but I think respawn timers could be longer, encouraging players to move around the area in circles to make the experience more dynamic, rather than just standing still waiting for mobs to respawn. I believe this could also encourage more PvP, because what I’ve noticed is that each group claims a spot, stays there, and as a result, there’s no real reason to engage in PvP with other groups.

At the moment, this is the only thing I have to say, even though other topics have been suggested.

d3f0

I started with Phase 2.5 and I've been wanting to play ashes for a long time.
You don't need to have a questing system like wow or other MMOs, think more like Elden Ring.
Which forces you to face a difficult route at the start ( main boss / quest ), that you cant beat, which then motivates you to explore the world and do side quests that reward you greatly, you then are able to face the main boss again.

The current FTUE for me feels way too unsequencial. Its my first day of playing and Im doing everything I can to not mindlessly grind mobs, but also I still want to play the game at the max level to test end game content.
Things I dislike:

- Can't see all the quests on the map.
Feels like I'm losing out on a lot. Currently if I wanted to see it on the map I'd have to track, which means I'd have to check my logs but also I can only track 10 so for sure I'm missing out on a quest that I couldve done on the way to a new spot. Just put all the quests on the map and if I want to remove them give me the option to.
- Give the option to share quests ( doesnt have to include quests that you obtain from exploration, maybe just general quests )
- Give side quests great rewards and impact
- Handholding is fine, at the end of the day no one enjoys being slandered for not being a grindfest maniac

With that being said;

What did you enjoy most, or least, about your first-time user experience in the Riverlands?

Quests that felt clear and had a good reward were the most enjoyable. I'm a solo player and I didnt have any issues joining a group to finish a quest ( church quest ). Other quests like The Warhelm Curse, Proper Burial, Heartwood Beat, and the goblin ransack one felt the worst. They're too complicated, unclear, and by the time you even figure the game out youre out of there and theyre not worth doing anymore.

Is there anything about your first-time experience that you wish were different?

I wish quests were more clear, sequential, and clustered ( meaning a single quest can take you to a spot where there is a cluster of quests to complete. )

Tell us about the worst and best things you experienced as a new tester!

Best: Propably finishing the 2nd sword outpost side quest with the coins
Worst: The quests mentioned above and the events, still havent figured out how these events work and if theyre worth it

What confused you most during your first few hours of play?

How to level up and crafting systems, regarding the quests I'd just be reiterating what I said earlier

Which quests or sections did you enjoy the most and least as a fresh tester?

Honestly any quest that has a single objective with a nice reward, even if extremly challenging, are the most enjoyable. But, the church quest was alright.

How do you feel about the NPC dialog and their responsiveness in the starting area?

Noticebly more immersive than the rest of the areas

What did you think of how crafting is introduced? Is there anything you wish were different regarding how crafting is introduced?

it felt like when a math teacher gives you a simple multiplication in class then asks you to solve a quantom phyics equation in a drop quiz. ( tutorial was nice and simple, the real thing is nothing like the tutorial )

How did you feel about your rate of progression throughout the Riverlands intro area?

It felt alright, I wouldnt mind this rate for the rest of my leveling experience.

Assuming you’ve tested past the Riverlands intro area, is there anything you feel was missing from your time there as a new player?

A clear combat tutorial introduction. While its easy to get used to, its essential for newer and more casual players to have a proper introduction.

Your passion is oozing all over this game, it's really enjoyable. Good luck

0plmf9xy

What stood out to me the most in a positive way was the environment — the world is visually beautiful, immersive, and conveys a strong sense of living fantasy. However, the mob distribution across the map significantly harms the experience: there are areas overcrowded with enemies and others completely empty, which forces all players to gather in the same spots. This kills the exploration dynamics and makes the open world feel empty.

Another thing that bothered me was the quest system. You pick up an item from the ground and the quest activates automatically, without any control. Moreover, quest items get stuck in your inventory and can’t be deleted. Even when you abandon the quest that was triggered by mistake, the items remain, occupying space. This clutters the bag and makes inventory management frustrating. These are small bugs or design choices that end up greatly affecting the quality of the experience.

I also found the game way too easy, especially in the early stages. Progression is too fast, with rewards that feel disproportionate to the effort required. This undermines the sense of challenge and achievement, which are essential in an MMORPG. In this sense, I believe the game should offer a more demanding journey, with a slower and more balanced progression pace.

goodsolonius

Absolutely MISERABLE in terms of gearing. Went way overboard with the drop rate reduction tandem with the crafted nerfs

Imnotkio

I'll approach a few topics that I think impact the new player experience. Some of them might be adjacent, and some might serve for the rest of the game, too.

New player experience philosophy
For me, the main thing the new player experience should do is hook the player. To do so, I think a few things should be taken into consideration:

Players are not invested enough to struggle through things right out of the gate. Players are more willing to suffer through some hardships once they are hooked and invested in the game. Therefore, the new player experience should be relatively smooth without struggles (Like death penalties, PvP, and overwhelming complex systems) and ramp up gradually. As some people might say, "the first hit is free". I like the new safezone and level 5 pvp-free solution. After level 10, players should be guided to nodes and introduced to some of the more complex systems in the game slowly. From level 15 onwards, death penalties should start ramping up. By level 20, the player should already be accustomed to the "real" pacing and vibe of the game.

In short: Don't overwhelm the player and make them struggle from the starting gate. Let them slowly learn the game and get used to some of the more "hardcore" features.

Properly testing the new player experience
I think it's incredibly hard to properly test new player experience when balance, performance, content, and uptime are so different from what is expected of launch. Some of this stuff is inevitable, as they are not ready yet. But when we end up with a few completely broken spots that allow players to bypass the entire leveling process (places giving ridiculous exp on easy mobs, like it happened this phase in the tropics), the entire data set is going to be tainted.

So I'll plead with intrepid: If you are to actually test the new player experience in Phase 3, please make sure that we don't have any of these broken spots, mobs disappearing, non-responsive, and the like.

Experience gain and action effort
This goes for questing, grinding, and anything that would give exp to players. Experience should be balanced to be proportional to the effort/difficulty of the scenario.

Currently, some low IQ mobs in the tropics are the best XP/hour in the game, while POIs like Carphin or Forge, with more complex encounters, are completely inefficient. The same goes for questing. We have quests that require 3 PhDs and a lot of time and effort, just to give 10k XP and glint, while some other quests that involve passing by a POI give almost that.

I am all for non-handholdy quests, quests that require reading the dialogue, exploration and mysteries and secrets, and puzzles. But those quests should be highly rewarding, way more than simple kill and collect quests.

The game has a risk vs reward philosophy. I propose an effort vs reward philosophy when it comes to content reward. The more complex a quest, the more difficult the grind on a POI, the more rewarding it should be on things like exp, glint, and material drops.

Lastly, on the experience topic, I think professions should give more experience than it does now. It should be the least rewarding on the experience side, as it is a "low effort" endeavor, and it gives some decent financial rewards already, but it should be enough that players at least feel like they are indeed gaining experience while doing professions.

Questing

I won't write my quest feedback here, as I already did before, and it's way too long, so I am going to leave a link to it:

https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/66959/sieges-ships-and-quests

Player/mob density, friction, and PvP
I started a week late for P1, so I can't talk about it, but for P2 and P3, the player density was completely unhealthy for the game. There were probably more players than mobs in the world. Every single place worth farming was occupied. A lot of players were relegated to places you couldn't even call a grind spot. This is really bad for the game IMO. This allows for the more dedicated players to completely lock the more casual players from content.

I am not saying that locking out content shouldn't be possible or even undesirable. I am saying, even guilds and players are acting to lock out content (which will happen), players should always have a place to farm/level/grind. There should be more places than players are able to lock out. Instead, players should be fighting to lock out the more rewarding spots (like the tower of Carphin), while casual players farm in less efficient spots, but still fun and valid spots.

Right now, every grindspot in the game creates friction and is a hotbed for pvp/mob training/griefing. I personally think the best scenario for the player density is where we have high-density zones (like Carphin) and almost deserted zones (places you barely even see a player). For instance, metros and their general region are completely packed, while it should be hard to find other players in wilderness nodes.

Solo/casual gameplay
Currently, we have very few non-elite grind spots, especially on higher levels. Players who like to enjoy some solo grind, players who are behind or starting late, and can't find a level-appropriate party, should have places to grind. Doesn't need to be as efficient as a group farm, but it should exist.

Another QoL implementation for solo players is that quests that require a group (for stuff like killing an elite 3* mob) should warn players beforehand. It sucks starting a quest, doing 30 minutes of a questline to find out you can't finish because you don't have a group.

Rested exp is a system implemented to help players with less time be able to keep up relatively with the more dedicated players. I know Intrepid plans to have this with beds, but I'd like to propose an implementation because I've seen other games mess this up. Rested exp should be proportional to the time you spend logged off. It should be something like "For every hour you stay logged off, you get double XP for x% of XP gained". It shouldn't be a simple buff "Sleep for X hours and get double XP for 1 hour" or something like that.

In one, if you go a day without logging in, you get a lot of rested XP, and you don't waste it on downtime. On the other, if you sleep for X hours or X+100 hours, you get the same 1 hour of double XP, which is spent on stuff like travel time. Please choose the first option.

Steven also commented on rested XP being better based on the quality of the bed you have. That is a really bad idea, as the purpose of rested XP is to bridge the gap between more casual and more dedicated players. Giving more dedicated players better beds and therefore better rested XP just completely breaks the purpose of the system.

Another thing that I think is problematic for low-level players/players starting late/casual players is the idea that accuracy is decreased with the level gap in PvP. If I am level 15 and can't hit a level 20 because he is 5 levels higher and I keep missing, then this just makes that "rush to max level" mentality more prominent and doesn't allow the player to take their time and enjoy the game in the leveling process. The gear and level power difference and dedication should be enough advantage for the higher-level player.

Ashes is a heavily group-focused MMO. Players that fall behind on the level curve, whether because they are playing more casually, or they started late, or took a break and had to go on a trip, or something, are going to have difficulties forming groups. What happens when a player starts 6 months late on a server and the initial/low-level zones are deserted?

For this, I'd like to suggest a grouping system. Let's say I am level 25 and want to group with my level 10 friend who just started the game. Right now, I can't help him because he won't get exp if we group. But if we had a system that made your stats power down to a level 10 threshold, then suddenly I could group with my friend without any issues, and without power boosting him. The threshold for stats can be something simple. Let's say the power cap is 10 * level. That means that if I group with my level 10 friend, my power would be capped at 100 (numbers are just examples, it can be calculated however, but it is tied to the level you are powering down to). You could even give special rewards for players who group up with starting players (something that doesn't make the meta be creating alt accounts to get rewards ofc).

Economy, gear, and professions
Let me start by saying I totally agree with the decision to reduce gear drops. I have proposed something similar on various occasions, and won't elaborate in here because of space, but I'll leave a link to an expanded explanation of my suggestion:

https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/66523/how-to-make-crafters-mvps-and-stop-the-endgame-rush-mentality

TLDR of that link:
Removing gear drops from mobs and soft-locking gear progression through crafting progression makes crafting valuable at all tiers, and decreases the power gap between casuals and hardcore players, mitigating the "rush to max level" mentality, while allowing these hardcore players to keep progressing inside these tiers with stuff like enchanting/gems/tempering/ascension

However, I think the way it was introduced was lacking/not enough.

From what I have seen, the nerf was insufficient. Gear has been dropped quite frequently, and if this trend continues with level 20 POIs, players will not bother with crafting. JM benches unlock at best a month from now, and in that period, players will grind to get level 20 items instead of crafting level 10 items. A level 20 white gear is better than most level 10 pieces. I will repeat my suggestion and ask that any drop rare or under be removed completely. Leave only heroic+ drops, which are so rare that it is not reliable for gearing, but still maintains that feeling of a really good loot drop.
The material drops were definitely not enough to replace the lack of gear drops. I think materials that are used in gear crafting come in only one rarity? I think common mat drops should drop as commonly as common equipment dropped before, but I don't think that is happening. Also, the gear quality should reflect the material origin. A gear that can be crafted with only copper and wood should be way less powerful than a piece of gear that is crafted using carphin mat drops.
These material drops should be really valuable, as valuable as a gear drop was before, or even more, since drops can come with bad stats while mat drops allow you to craft your desired gear. Also, the material system should work in a way that makes materials relevant across a wide range of levels. If players are 25 and the desired place for them to grind is Carphin, but the crafting progression is locked to level 10 items, Carphin should be dropping materials to craft level 10 gear. Level 20 material drops would be useless (for now) in this scenario, and Carphin would not be the desired top hotspot in the world (level 20 materials would be cheaper than level 10 materials until level 20 benches unlock).
The crafting changes and the current effort it takes to craft a piece of gear are completely disproportional to the time you spend on that level range. If the desire is to stick with the current plans of having mobs drop gear but at a low rate, then crafting needs to be more efficient/less effort than simply hitting your head against a wall multiple times (grinding for gear). So I'd say in this scenario, crafting effort should be changed to be more in line with the amount of time you spend in that level range + the effort it takes to get a gear drop. The issue I have in this scenario is that for leveling, any gear piece is valid. Some players got to level 20 with starting gear, so any drop you get from mobs will be enough for players not to care about crafting all the way to max level. So I will go back to strongly suggesting that any drop rare or under, be removed completely.
In the initial first days of a server, nodes won't be leveled, and benches can't be built. The marker stalls are non-existent. There is no economy in the game. Players are learning the game. There should be ways to gear where players can do it on their own, and not rely on others. Also, players will plow through the first 10 levels without needing to get a single piece of gear, as it is an introductory part of the game, low difficulty, and very quick to get through. So players won't care about gear if it takes too much effort to get at this stage. This means a very simplified and streamlined level 0-9 crafting. This period should be a player's introduction to crafting and a signal that this is the main way to gear yourself. Get a few pieces of wood, a couple of metallic materials, and craft a piece. Nothing too complex, nothing that takes too much effort.
The resource scarcity in the world is not proportional to the quality/tier of a resource. If you want players to engage with crafting at low levels, copper can't be as rare as it is. Tier 1 materials should be plentiful and enough that any player can quickly gather some and craft a novice piece of gear.

PvE encounters
I have posted feedback on this that is still relevant, so I won't repeat myself:

https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/63848/feedback-on-pve-encounter-design

To this feedback, I'll add a few words. While playing mostly solo this phase, unlike the other phases, I found myself enjoying the pve more. I have to be aware of mechanics, how to deal with them, move and dodge, create a grind rotation, and properly use my kit to be effective. Once you group up tho, most of that goes away. You literally stand still for hours in a spot, pressing whatever buttons do damage while your tank pulls mobs and your healer takes care of any damage a mechanic does, if eventually one reaches another player aside from the tank. The PvE becomes static, low complexity, and quite frankly boring.

The issues I have from solo grinding come mostly from the lack of spots and mobs, and the lack of available sustain sources. Currently, as a non-sustain class (like bard or healer), I have to stop and rest between almost every single mob. I wish we had better options to keep the grinding going solo (pots, combat regen food buffs, better off combat regen, etc), so the rest is not every mob but maybe every couple of rotations. In this case, I think group pve encounters have a better balance.

Also, the animation of sitting and then starting the ration and then the animation to get up, it's all very time-consuming. I think sitting and resting can be kept the way as is, but if you are using a ration, it should be quicker (maybe no need to sit, maybe you could move at walking speed, maybe smaller duration and buffed regen).

If group pve encounters can be aligned with the vibes of solo pve encounter dynamics, while improving the sustain issues of solo pve encounters to be more in line with group pve encounters, I think Ashes has the potential to have one of the best open-world pve encounters in the genre.

World introduction
Last but not least, I think players should get a brief introduction to the world and the context of why we are going through the gate before we start. Something to get players more invested and more situated before starting the game. This could be done through some introduction cinematics, like most old-school games do (and more recently, BG3 is a good example). Nothing beats a good hype trailer before you start playing a new game.

Kodjoro

I like the fact that tutorials are given as "optional" quest, not 1 long tutorial questline for new players where you have to complete it all. Now this also has a downside to it not being obvious which quest is like a "tutorial" quest. If you dont talk to the quest giver for crafting/gathering, you might miss it entirely even though you would want to do it.

On the other hand, commisions, and quests (near lionhold) were a bit annoying since there were so many people there and the spawnrates of mobs wasn't high enough. I have no clue if upping these will be an actual solution or not. Because it could cause other uninted problems. But i did enjoy the fact that there are quests that arent obvious like the curse one in lionhold.

Which quests or sections did you enjoy the most and least as a fresh tester?
Now i know questing isn't that fleshed out yet but i really enjoy questing and i can see that there are efforts to make more "hidden" quests and not just kill 5 wolves quests (they do exist but that isn't necesseraly bad).

How do you feel about the NPC dialog and their responsiveness in the starting area?
I had a bug where i couldnt interact with some NPC's (and reported it). The ai voices are a bit jarring but i think overall are nice to have, since they add a bit of character to the npc.

What did you think of how crafting is introduced? Is there anything you wish were different regarding how crafting is introduced?
Crafting was introduced fine, it isnt a complicated crafting system but i also only did the "tutorial" crafting quest so can't really speak on the potential complexities it could have since I have no clue how developed the system is at this point.

How did you feel about your rate of progression throughout the Riverlands intro area?
I took it really slow to really get my bearings so I dont really have an opinion on this.

How did you feel about the rewards you received in the Riverlands intro area?
I find it a bit odd that you dont really get gear in the intro area from quests. The gear doesnt have to be good but now youre stuck with the basic gear. You could maybe tie it to a quest introducing leathorworking and smithing for example.

dejvid97

important quests should be highlighted more like the one u can get begginer gear i had no idea about that if i didnt randomly found a video on yt..

also it would be great to introduce ppl little deeper into gathering/crafting system like a mini questline to gether x meterial and craft something usefull.. as a new player is very confusing what can i even gather and if item is even usefull maybe an aditional window next to logging/mining/etc to see all the mats u can get and their tier

maybe POI could have avrage LVL of the mobs in the area next to it soo ppl have idea where should they stick around.. now i have to type my LVL in chat to get invited just soo i have to run halfway across the map to get to a farming spot thats good for my LVL.. i know alot of ppl will find that weird and maybe lazy from me but i just think new players will find that really helpfull

MDS

7. What did you think of how crafting is introduced? Is there anything you wish were different regarding how crafting is introduced?

This will be combo feedback on gathering, crafting and gear drops.

First, love the idea to make gear even more rare to focus on crafting. Prior play through you didn't need to craft as drops were more than sufficient. However gathering and stations are not supportive of crafting in leveling this far resulting in the following:

Players are creating alts and just repeating the quests that offer tokens for armor and gear. These items are strong and cover most slots. Gear solved.

As for crafting, how could you craft?! Resources are so scant with everyone gathering in the same area. On top of that resource variety is overly basic with Ruby being a rare sight, imagine that lol. Total count of available resource nodes seems much lower, probably coinciding with node level, which in theory makes sense but it doesn't work to support any meaningful progression in gathering and crafting. Also stations don't exist so even if you do manage to get resources you can't craft.

As is, early grinders will skip crafting level 0 and as progression is playing out players are skipping level 10 as well. Those joining later will likely be able to take advantage of crafting after resources become more abundant and stations come on online. It just seems like early adopters are getting shafted when they don't need to be.

Please refine this new system as I think it's a winner. It's just that it needs some major tuning in my opinion. Thanks for reading my feedback!

Liftted

Hawkk or Liftted
OP
— 5/1/2025 2:51 PM Let me say this be care full what you ask for. I have started playing this game with wave 2 with few log in issues till this new server launch and wipe.

Server launch. I got into the game and was able to create two characters. Went to launch. I have had code 33, then code 53 five times. I got in. as you patched, I crashed out. Got code 33 twice. Finished the goblin quest. Got to the medallion polisher quest. I crashed out the two times I got in to talk to him. Now all I get is code 28 error when I try to log that character back in. I am so glad I took my birthday off to do this testing for you. Right now I give this launch a D-. I just tried to go back in. I got another code 28 and 33. At this rate by the end of the day I should know what all the codes are. lol. I finally got to log in and play at about 7pm that evening. My partner in the game my wife kept getting code 33 and could not get in the first day. It felt like the server was alive again. I went out to the grem newbie area. Mobs grem and ravens were not coming up like last week. If something did come up it was killed very fast. It was a very contested area. It would have been a glorious pvp area had that been your design. I went down to the otters and worked on the splinter quest. I was able to find enough splinters to get this quest done. I came back in and turned this quest in. My wife was finally able to get into the game for about 2 hours till we logged out. What we noticed was very few mobs and resources to harvest compared to last weeks server. I will have more to say. I am currently suffering from a code 34 wipe and possible loss of my last two days progress.

bglogov

Before I start this was my first time playing the game (0 exp beforehand) and I giving you all praise for what you have done for MMORPG community:

What did you enjoy most, or least, about your first-time user experience in the Riverlands?
- Fluidity of gameplay, skills and graphics, music and sound effects are also spot on (10/10).
- Tutorial is almost non-existent (probably because of alpha stage), but I had a lot of difficulty setting my brain on how gathering and crafting professions work (still learning it).
- Also idk why every screen i open is set bottom left cornet (not much but enough that I want it to move to center).

Is there anything about your first-time experience that you wish were different?
- Quests. I don't have issue reading quest and I find that part most interesting, to learn the story/history of the area, but if you don't plan to create quest system like World of Warcraft, please I beg of you more descriptive text where is the area of quest objective. Also map location of quests are buggy (not giving you correct location).

Tell us about the worst and best things you experienced as a new tester!
- Best part is combat, design classes, music and ambience. Absolutely 11/10

- Worst part is questing. Described in upper paragraph and to add that please change icon of quest givers or at least don't overlap that with other interactive NPC-s since it bugging the mini map out

What confused you most during your first few hours of play?
- The most I would say in my opinion is gathering and crafting professions. It's really not intuitive and would like to see more work on that.

Which quests or sections did you enjoy the most and least as a fresh tester?
- That quest for collecting bags on the road is frustrating because of does not say where at least or on map where potentially would find it. Also Safe,Something,Something is also badly designed.

How do you feel about the NPC dialog and their responsiveness in the starting area?
- Honestly pretty good ngl.

What did you think of how crafting is introduced? Is there anything you wish were different regarding how crafting is introduced?
- Crafting is hard. Not intuitive. Would rather like some line of questing where would game introduce you into complexity of crafting/gathering. These few quests that are in game are not really doing it right. Good start but it could be much better

How did you feel about your rate of progression throughout the Riverlands intro area?
- Decent. Would not change it. Liking it actually.

How did you feel about the rewards you received in the Riverlands intro area?
- Could be better. When I get piece of loot as a reward or drop couple of time I opened inventory and was like...."wait when did I get that?!".

Assuming you’ve tested past the Riverlands intro area, is there anything you feel was missing from your time there as a new player?
- Can't comment on it right now.

frexil36

goodsolonius wrote: »

Absolutely MISERABLE in terms of gearing. Went way overboard with the drop rate reduction tandem with the crafted nerfs

disagree, we don't like super loot everywhere

Ace1234

Ah, i've posted about this in a previous feedback thread but I think I misinterpeted the topic for that one. This seems like a better thread for my post, so im just gonna copy/paste what I put in that one:

New-player experience

I think a crucial part of the new-player experience is getting players invested early on. Players should instantly have the desire to progress and dive into the various systems, which I think stems from a curiosity about the mysteries the various systems hold, as well as observing a given fantasy and wanting to achieve and experience that fantasy for themselves. If these things are done well, it could really get players hooked early on, and these things are very strong motivators that a lot of classic games have done very well, and it would be a shame not to leverage these different types of gameplay and design techniques.

1. Introducing mystery and sparking curiosity

I would really enjoy a new-player experience that puts elements of mystery at the forefront. Mystery is in the unique position of being most effective the less the player knows, in contrast with most other gameplay systems where things get better and more engaging the more the player learns and improves. I think this sets mystery up to be such a simple but strong way of gripping the player before they even engage with any of the mechanics, while also being a type of gameplay full of discovery and appeal for a lot of different players. It naturally draws players into the progression of unraveling the mysteries hidden within the game, thus also naturally motivating players to progress in a variety of other progression systems as they chase those mysteries, which is a great way of introducing players to different systems and gameplay types and motivating them to progress.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ilnq1ZNmhoM&t=1s

This video talks about how to make a compelling mystery through sparking curiosity and investment into whatever type of mystery it is (Basically ingraining any kind of long-term mystery within any given system within the game; be it related to having an "information gap" in the lore, the world, the rules/mechanics, in progession, etc.). These could provide alternative progression paths early on for players to solve these mysteries in different ways through using different skill sets (like inductive/deductive reasoning, knowledge-acquistion, exploration, observation, experimentation, or even just persistently playing the game to eventually discover what will happen, etc.). The new player experience would be a prime opportunity for introducing these mysteries across different systems, and tutorializing players on various ways of solving mysteries using different types of player skillsets to both spark interest and to provide impactful choices early on.

- one example already in Ashes (not sure if its intended or not) is the curiosity that some of the environments spark. A good example was from the seasons update:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dhvQEPuexjg&t=865s&pp=ygUZYXNoZXMgb2YgY3JlYXRpb24gc2Vhc29ucw%3D%3D

I really liked at 14:26 you can see some mysterious structures. You look at the face-shaped rock and think "hm, I wonder what caused that, what secrets it holds, or what it can tell me about the past and thus how it can inform me about the potential future of the world?" And you can see the floating structure and think "hm, I wonder if I can get up there and I wonder when the last time someone was there or if there is anything important still there?"

- This can be done for any of the systems very early on during the new player experience, such as the environment sparking curiosity for exploration, or some observation or dialogue that sparks curiosity to learn more about the story/lore, or some teased fight scenes that spark curiosity in the full potential of the combat system or class potential, etc.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8W_WHbZDBKU&t=342s&pp=ygUMZ210ayBteXN0ZXJ5

Here is another look into how to introduce mystery/spark curiosity into the lore and world

2. Establishing aspirations and fantasies

I have a hard time puting my finger on it, but I feel like this might be what was so captivating to me about the new-player experience back during the peak of Destiny 1. There was something about being in that city hub as a new player. It was so cool to see the strongest and renowned lore characters who represented each class type, with their awesome armor, lore, epic quests they handed out, and epic rewards you could work towards (even better if the rewards relate to that particular vendor and class fantasy). I think it was this aspiration of achieving that class fantasy that made this so neat, by teasing the player with what they can become if they put in the effort, you look at that character and think "man I wish I could be that cool" and then realize that you can be that cool if you earn the gear, abilities, and other rewards from that character. Last time I played Warframe a while ago it had this idea as well within its faction systems.

In Destiny, it was also very cool to know that there were other vendors who were hidden.
Yes, this was fun to try and find them and reach them from a skill perspective of course, but there was also something about this that added to that endgame-fantasy and mystery aspects as well, because you feel like there is this "extra layer" to the world that not everyone has access to or knows about, like some kind of underground organization or network or something, which really makes you feel like the world actually has a lot of depth to it where only the most clever and capable can survive and you have must be willing to do anything you can to stand out and gain an edge over the competition. I think its ultimately the fantasy that drives you to uncover secrets such as this, but its the challenge and mysterious elements that make you feel like you really earned that fantasy when you achieve it, as you compete against others in reaching your full potential and realizing a fantasy that they might not have access to, to gain that competitive edge within the world and to stand out as a player within a world full of people and characters vying for the top spot. Something as simple as some hidden vendors in the new player hub managed to capture that feeling for me very early on which I think is a powerful thing for a new player to experience (which is the more important takeaway, more than the individual example).

These aren't really new ideas, but the way Destiny 1 handled it was very captivating to me for some reason, and its also just kind of important to remember to do these types of things and to consider some of the more minor details that contribute to this as well.

- These aspects are also even better if these lore characters feel like they are a living and breathing part if the world, and interact with the world and the story elements.

- Another key aspect of the fantasy and creating those aspirations, is to give the player a taste of what that end-game fantasy will feel like. Some of the coolest "new player experiences" I can remember, involve being teased very early on in the playthrough.

This could be something like seeing the most powerful lore character for a given class (like the strongest npc tank in the lore, for example) fight with someone early on near the start of the experience. This would be pretty cool if you are a tank and are seeing that happen, and puts context of where you are now vs. what you might now want to be later on. Its that anticipation and sense of progression and earning that fantasy that can hook players early on. Its also really fun when you get a quick tease of being able to actually play and feel what it would be like at max progression. Things like having temporary access to all your skills at the beginning of the game, before they get stripped away from for for story reasons or whatever. Or being able temporarily take control of a very strong lore character. Things like that which allow you to feel what it would be like at max progression can be very fun teases that get players hooked early on, and can apply to a variety of systems.

Just make sure its only a taste though, as you want players to still have that curiosity, mystery, amd sense of wonder about what that fantasy holds for them.

3. Set the scene for adventure

This is something that Pokemon (pretty sure its the largest selling media franchise in the world) does really well. This is one of the reasons why such a simple formula that Gamefreak uses year, after year, after year, still garners so much success. Its basically the same story, the same gameplay, the same pretty much everything, and they can afford to play it safe every time they make a new game, because their formula still has such a strong way of inspiring that sense of adventure as long as they introduce new pokemon for the player to adventure alongside. This is why they focus so much time and effort on revealing the new starter pokemon for each new game in the series, because they know that sparking that sense of adventure early on in the new player experience is so important for drawing in players. Here are some things I think we can learn from this-

- Introduce characters/personalities

This is an important part of setting the scene for adventure and one reason of why the starter pokemon are so important in that series. They are likely going to be with you throughout your whole journey, so its important to make them extra appealing and to introduce them early on to get you hooked. This is something that a lot of my favorite games have done, is to introduce some very cool characters very early on to spark interest in learning more about them, and wanting to be more like them, or acquiring their help in achieving my goals or fantasy. In Ashes terms, this could be introducing the player early on to characters who will be key to the lore or gameplay, and making sure they are very cool, appealing, and full of personality, to spark that interest and investment early on. Allow players to interact with these key characters early on, or watch cutscenes about them (might be a cinematic, might not be. Could possibly be learning cool and interesting things about them during the gameplay. Refer to the cutscene dev discussion for this), and so on.

- Choosing personal gameplay style

This is another aspect of the starter pokemon is that they are a means of expressing personal style, preference, and it establishes the path you will take on your journey from that point forward. In Ashes terms, this could be something like emphasizing the stylistic differences in the class choices, and emphasizing the different feel, experience, and distinctions associated with the different classes, or highlighting the unique ways of playing within other core systems that the player will interact with throughout their play through. This could also mean highlighting the differences between the various play loops very early on so the player can get a good idea of what they want their experience to play and feel like, and what path forward they want to take.

- Establishing clear goals relating to player's preferred content types

Lastly, its important to establish clear goals. This puts context into where the player is currently at and what they will have to do to make the journey towards their destination. Obviously you can have different goals to choose from like "being the very best like no one ever was" or "completing your pokedex for professor Oak" but each is still a clear goal that makes you feel excited about the journey ahead. Allow players to experiment early on with the various game loops and figure out which they want to commit more too, and give clear goals relating to each type of experience.

4. Tutorialization

Teaching the player is a big part of the new-player experience.

This is a great video showing the organic and subtle ways of introducing the player to the fantasy, and to the different underlying mechanics.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8FpigqfcvlM&pp=ygUVc2VxdWVsaXRpcyBtZWdhIG1hbiB4

This video talks about ways to make tutorials feel more organic, immersive, and interactive

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MMggqenxuZc&pp=ygUQZ210ayBoYWxmIGxpZmUgMg%3D%3D

This video talks about ways to introduce very complex systems in a more approachable manner

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-GV814cWiAw&pp=ygUNR210ayB0dXRvcmlhbA%3D%3D

These various tutorialization methods are very good for guiding the player without holding their hand, while still being interactive and engaging even from the start before players fully grasp the systems. I think these could be useful teaching tools within some dedicated tutorial questlines.

mrnocandles

Q: Is Ashes of Creation worth playing right now?
A: Absolutely — especially if you're into dynamic world-building and player-driven economies. The world feels alive, with the node system giving real weight to player choice. However, be prepared to do a bit of research on your own, especially when it comes to skill trees and leveling paths — the game doesn’t hold your hand much in that department.
Q: How’s the combat system in Ashes of Creation?
A: The combat is flexible, blending tab-targeting and action elements for a hybrid style that caters to different preferences. Customization through skill trees adds a lot of depth. That said, new players might feel overwhelmed at first, since the game doesn't do the best job of explaining how these trees interact or which paths complement your class fantasy.
Q: How does leveling feel in Ashes of Creation?
A: Leveling is immersive and rewarding, especially since progression is tied to real changes in the world around you. Quests matter, zones evolve, and your actions have impact. But again, there’s a learning curve. The lack of guided explanation for optimal leveling routes or class synergy can leave players feeling a bit lost early on.
Q: What’s the community like?
A: Surprisingly welcoming for a PvP-friendly game! Most players are eager to group up, share insights, and help each other navigate the ever-shifting world. That said, community guides often have to fill in the gaps the game itself doesn’t explain — especially when it comes to things like skill point investment or build diversity.
Q: Any advice for new players?
A: Join a guild early — seriously. It’s the best way to learn the ropes, especially with how intricate systems like augments and class combos can be. The in-game tutorials are pretty surface-level, so connecting with experienced players or checking community wikis is almost essential if you want to optimize your build.

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