PvP arena in cities (like a colosseum)

Kallysha · June 13

Ludullu wrote: »

« to
A lot of systems which are yet to be implemented (or more like even proper implemented);
Nobody is forced into lawless zones you only go there and take the risk if you want, you know some people just want to log and have pvp at will without having to wait for the war or siege to happen.

'This is pretty much the same issue that caravans have.' i dont think the intent of caravans was ever made to be a walk in the park for those who were escorting it, the whole point was to have the risk of pvp happening over it

'And that issue then led to several overcorrections in design, that in themselves took weeks to implement' hence its an open alpha

[*] pver is farming mobs/gatherables
[*] a ganker kills them
Again you making this about you pvers, which is not exactly the case, as a ganker myself (im a versatile pvper tho...not all i did was ganking btw (since i was once top all time castle defender)) by far pvers were NOT at all my predilect target, but actually some of the best pvpers around, now those were the ones i liked to go after (pvers simply dont provide the challenge we are looking for or whatsoever to us, i do of say you pvers could stop acting so entitled)

'I played a PvX game for 12 years and it had more open world pvp than majority (if not all) other mmos I've heard about.' Sort of same, for more than 10 years (around 12 i do say as well), gw2 wvw veteran, did also some pve or was forced to...but ye wvw was what kept me hooked and on playing for all those years, if the game had no decent pvp to offer i wouldnt have played it for more than a year; although wvw is a separate instance of pve, i do say its most certainly one of the best if not the best mass pvp environment in any mmo thus far (plus i recall quite well a couple of occasions where pvers/newcomers would get in there and start crying about it when absolutely nobody forced them to go there or even stay)

'...but I'm not sure if they're the majority,...' those others are a minority i assure you

'"murderhoboing is not a thing in this game"' and its not, but when you go of your own will to a pvp zone i dont know what you are expecting... its just like when you dwell yourself into a war battlefield and be thinking you wont get a bomb thrown at you

Ludullu · June 13

Kallysha wrote: »

and its not, but when you go of your own will to a pvp zone i dont know what you are expecting... its just like when you dwell yourself into a war battlefield and be thinking you wont get a bomb thrown at you

The problem here is that these zones become the most valuable, because Steven thinks that somehow the pvpers who go there have a higher risk to their gameplay, even though, as you yourself say, they don't even care about the pve which is supposed to be the higher reward in this context.

This is why I want systems that make the entire world have way more pvp, instead of just a few zones only made for pvpers.

As for waiting for wars and shit, I've given Intrepid my feedback on that as well. Wars are meant to be 24/7, as long as you don't finish the goal during primetime, which means that a guild that declares a war right at the end of official primetime should have, like, 18h of ffa pvp against their enemies.

This is simply yet another example of them simplifying a ton of systems, instead of working on them. And yes, "it's an alpha, so not everything is in", except for some peculiar reason we're getting way more pvp-related changes rather than pve-related ones, which, to me, simply screams that Steven only cares about appeasing the pvpers that are in his ears constantly.

And this appeasement will just spiral us into a pvp mmo, instead of a pvx one. I personally don't want that to happen, which is why I'm still here giving feedback and reminding Intrepid that pvpers aren't the only ones that wanna play this game on release.

Also, it's real funny that you say pvers are entitled, while pvpers start crying like babies the second a few lawless zones got removed

I've seen waaaay more complaining from pvpers about "waaah, there's no way for me to kill people w/o penalties" than complaints from pvers about shitty pve. Mostly because pvers said that at the start, saw that things wouldn't change all that fast and left to do better things while they wait, exactly because they're not entitled to keep crying to Steven to add THEIR content first.

Ludullu · June 13

Oh and to just emphasize the irony of it all.

PvErs come into A2
See that PvE is nowhere near done
They say "this is not done, so I'll come back to test it when there's more to test"
They leave to other games

PvPers come into A2
They get a handout in the form of land lawless zones, which are presented as "a way to test player behavior in the open seas w/o having seas" (except gameplay on land and at sea are completely different, so this was already a bad approach)
PvPers see that all the other PvP systems are not finished
PvPers exploit unfinished mechanics to bully people (mostly leashing and CCs against greens)
PvPers use unfinished war design to abuse absence of city guards around storage
Intrepid have to address this
PvPers abuse bad guard AI around ember springs and node to keep killing people w/o proper punishment
Intrepid have to address this
PvPers overabuse wardecs and war rewards
Intrepid have to address this
More lawless zones get added to distract PvPers from abusing the little amount of non-pvpers left in the game
PvPers start complaining that caravans can be exploited by crashing the game, so a 1-2 group of attackers can't kill it in time
Intrepid have to address this
Ships get added waaay ahead of schedule do add more pvp
Lawless zones get removed cause the game is growing
PvPers complain that their ffa PvP is now gone
Intrepid have to address this
*We are currently here

Now do tell me, which one of those examples seems to talk about entitled people and which one talks about people who know that this is a work and progress and don't complain about every little detail that doesn't go their way?

Also, which one of those groups have created way more needless work for Intrepid through their complaining? Half of the pvp list shouldn't even have been in the current version of the game ffs.

Kallysha · June 13

Ludullu wrote: »

The problem here is that these zones become the most valuable, because Steven thinks that somehow the pvpers who go there have a higher risk to their gameplay, even though, as you yourself say, they don't even care about the pve which is supposed to be the higher reward in this context.

This is why I want systems that make the entire world have way more pvp, instead of just a few zones only made for pvpers.

... except for some peculiar reason we're getting way more pvp-related changes rather than pve-related ones, which, to me, simply screams that Steven only cares about appeasing the pvpers that are in his ears constantly.

Also, it's real funny that you say pvers are entitled, while pvpers start crying like babies the second a few lawless zones got removed I've seen waaaay more complaining from pvpers about "waaah, there's no way for me to kill people w/o penalties" than complaints from pvers about shitty pve. Mostly because pvers said that at the start, saw that things wouldn't change all that fast and left to do better things while they wait, exactly because they're not entitled to keep crying to Steven to add THEIR content first.

If there is more "valuable" rewards in there i assume that is indeed intended to whom likes that type of content then, and they (pvpers) get exactly what they want which is pvp at will...(i feel because you are unhappy, the others must as well not have fun because you say so).
You said well few zones dont know why it bothers you so much, while pretty much the rest of the world is pve based.
Yes i can say that by already backup experience, oh and the only pvp system (so far existing, because even caravans people avoid to do go figure why...) getting removed oh yes that one. And i've seem the same amount if not more usually is always more of pvers on a constant complaining about everything and anything, even when the matter isnt really related to them (cough pvp).

Ludullu wrote: »

PvPers come into A2

They get a handout in the form of land lawless zones, which are presented as "a way to test player behavior in the open seas w/o having seas" (except gameplay on land and at sea are completely different, so this was already a bad approach)

PvPers see that all the other PvP systems are not finished

PvPers exploit unfinished mechanics to bully people (mostly leashing and CCs against greens)

PvPers use unfinished war design to abuse absence of city guards around storage

Intrepid have to address this

PvPers abuse bad guard AI around ember springs and node to keep killing people w/o proper punishment

Intrepid have to address this

PvPers overabuse wardecs and war rewards

Intrepid have to address this

More lawless zones get added to distract PvPers from abusing the little amount of non-pvpers left in the game

PvPers start complaining that caravans can be exploited by crashing the game, so a 1-2 group of attackers can't kill it in time

Intrepid have to address this

Ships get added waaay ahead of schedule do add more pvp

Lawless zones get removed cause the game is growing

PvPers complain that their ffa PvP is now gone

Intrepid have to address this

*We are currently here

Also, which one of those groups have created way more needless work for Intrepid through their complaining? Half of the pvp list shouldn't even have been in the current version of the game ffs.

Needless work!? interesting choice of words... and yet you say 'yes it is an alpha' but im not quite sure you really know or understand what that means after all. Also its crucial for Intrepid to keep pvpers interested/around, without them game will be dead on arrival have no doubts (most mmos stopped caring/ (neglected) about the pvp aspects of the game or the pvpers long ago, hence why the dire state of most of them nowadays).

Azherae · June 14

Ok since this line is my fault, I'mma try to pull it back.

Open world arenas in player gathering hubs always do at least a little bit of good, to add immersion until the PvP 'meta' establishes itself or whatever. And then, after that, it helps provide drama for those who enjoy chat-PvP and trash-talking (whether or not any actual fights happen).

Since Ashes is designed as a GvG when it comes to balance, an Arena is an even better idea because it can assure some controlled starting conditions, can help downscale the performance requirements for players automatically (for those who don't have the beefiest machines or the best ping), and the walls of the Arena can be a big help in offering the Developers ways to tweak the netcode for even better experiences.

Being able to watch and organize matches and tournaments is always great, and a lot of dynamic experiences could come out of it all, without compromising much (sure, there will be people who will complain that they couldn't get a match because some other group was using it, but there's no real need to change too much for that).

It would also allow for the option to have pre-saved Arena loadouts for characters, which has all sorts of benefits.

Ludullu · June 14

I'd be all for adding arenas, but here's Steven's response to me literally asking for them

Azherae · June 14

Ludullu wrote: »

I'd be all for adding arenas, but here's Steven's response to me literally asking for them

Oh wow, thanks, that is literally as clear as it gets.

So yeah, Steven just shifted to 'standard' Korean PvP MMO style.

(Note, I am not complaining about this from the 'is this.... gameplay?' standpoint or whether or not it can be good, I'm not complaining at all, I just already have a game for this stuff so it's surprising to me).

I guess Nebula Island respawns are probably easier than Turquoise Sea respawns, but it will depend on implementation.

PvP arena in cities (like a colosseum)

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