NO, I would not like to see a world map that, once explored, updates with the ever-changing state of the world.
I would prefer to see a fog of war cloud with a timer. If time expires before you go back to an area (or buy a current map update (player/npc)), then the fog of war map recovers those areas (you've forgotten about them, but quickly fixed with new map/maps). INNOVATE. Go big or go home. (Keep up the great work). !.!
I dont really want "fog of war" like i dont know anything about the area, ive been there before... but definitely dont add or remove dungeons or landmarkes that may come or go, while ive been away.
I would love to see something like cartography be a profession that adds more gameplay around the act of exploration, however...
As a few people have stated - any system that tries to limit information will likely be circumvented through crowd sourcing from players on a third-party website.
While Ashes is shying away from add-ons, a recent example of add-on circumvention was the Overwolf overlay for New World. The overlay did not need to hook into the game at all but would display all resource nodes on the map. While such an add-on was clearly not wanted by the devs, they had no means of preventing it.
I cannot see a world where the map could be new and innovative where the players did not invalidate it. I am not saying that it isn't possible, and perhaps the team doesn't care about players potentially invalidating the system. It could still be a fun little thing for people that refuse to use outside information, but that group of players will be a small fraction of the population. The team should not dedicate a large amount of time towards developing such a system if it can be easily invalidated.
So, yes. I would like to see something more interesting, but I do not see it being a feasible addition.
I think a "Timed Fog of War" system works best, Once you run through, you get sight for 10 days or something like that. But constant visibility is not very "Sandboxy"
I would even suggest a permanent visibility on Castles/Nodes that are owned with some AOE visibility to neighboring areas.
Potentially even if you're in a guild, that sight transitions to fellow guildies, so if Bob goes to Point 1, the guild can see that. Would enhance the dynamic of a guild as well.
I think BDO has a great world map, you have to go to places to explore and discover them and once they are discovered they remain discovered for the remainder of your time playing, a great way for new players to move around and find new areas as well as areas they have yet to explore. And with how dynamic AOC should be the world map could either auto-update to show you the new info or be replaced with question marks, signifying that something has changed and you should go figure out what happened.
I have been thinking what Map Discovery / Exploration means and I think it involves many aspects :
- how does player moves and finds a way around the world (map , compass, waypoints )
- how does player perceive changes to the world
- how does player adapt to them
- how immersive it is
- how does it affect your playstyle
- how does it affect people around you
In conclusion I have thought about key aspects which would make great Map Discovery / Exploration a real adventure :
- immersivity
- engagement
- feeling of progression
- customization
- communitivity
In regard to this I have come up with this idea: MAP 1 - Entering area unlocks it on map without any indicators 2 - Coming into vicinity of a structure unlock it on map f.e nodes, subnodes etc 3 - If a node has cartography merchant we should be able to buy some basic information 4 - Custom markings - every player should be able to customize the map and share these customization (this of course needs some limitations)
Map Progression
Map shouldn't be just a tool to look at but somthing you want to work with, something that points you toward progression.
Pressing on an area should open its information (Map Codex). Map Codex provides you with information about your progression in area (what you know) and hints about what you might want to check out (vague hint or direction). Players - staying in area unlocks the informations.
- slaying various mobs unlocks them in your Map Codex. The more you kill the more you know about them. Professsions
Depending on a profession you ulock other type of informations:
f.e Herbalist - unlocks information about herbs in an area Miner - unlocks information about ores in area Woodcutter - unlocks information about wood types in area
etc..
Communitivity and customization Cartography should allow players to share map or its parts with other players. Custom markings should be always allowed to be shared between players. Party Map there should be a system allowing Party/Raid Leader and "lieutenants" to draw or add temporary markings.
Map Changes
At first map shouldn't give you any information about changes before you see them. But as Ashes of Creation world is living its life you can encounter rumours or quests that are referring to certain area. That could trigger your map to display a warning like "gold ! mark or ? " that something is happening in there. Information shouldn't come out of nowhere.
I think anything that's static (e.g. dungeons, raids, even nodes even though they're not static technically) should be on the map. Stuff like World Bosses spawning or player caravans shouldn't be shown on the map. You should have to rely on word of mouth to know when world bosses spawns or caravans are on the move.
I want the map to cover what people would normally cover:
* Patrons
* Castle holders
* POIs that are static
* Settlements
Anything else I would not like to have on the map.
Events that are temporary should show on the map if you're in a certain proximity only. And events could kick off audio and visual that impacts a larger area and not show on the map.
I took part of this party in discord so here's my actual feedback.
I think cartography should be cartography, you should have to skill it up as a profession, it should require the right tools for the job as it skills higher.
Guilds should have to have a cartographers table in order to share their map.
The map should be crude and then upgrade to a fine map.
Topography should be apart of the top end of the level.
No global information
Needs proper compasses, tables, etc.
3
Options
ButtercupCloverMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I had an interesting idea after listening into office hours on this topic. Rather than having a fog of war, there was a open world map that showed node locations but had no other markers than that. Players could see the nodes and levels as they update but wouldn't have any local or regional markers/topography. Somewhere in a node, maybe the town hall, would be a place where players can obtain a local map with relevant markers at the time of receiving the map such as the name of a nearby woods or current roads for caravans. In the world map, players would be able to click on a node to open a local map if they have a relevant map for that area.
That would simulate having fog of war, a player only has a local map of a region updated to the last time they were there and don't have a map for places they haven't been to yet.
A rough idea of the map/cartography system that I think would be nice in AoC.
Regarding Cartography:
Subbing to Carts would allow players the "ease" of not having to constantly buy maps, while still allowing carts to make an income based on their constant explorations.
Now carts can still sell maps regarding dungeon explorations, raids, treasure maps, ect... instead of subscription maps if they choose to do so.
This would also allow players to have accesses to an updated "guild" map for more sensitive info regarding their own activities.
Regarding World Map:
I think there should be multiple filters of different uses of the map (topography, climate conditions, ect...).
While certain things shouldn't show on the "general" map like caravans, players, hidden quest/npc, ect... There are exceptions of course (if a caravan attacker has some how bought caravan path map then they would know the general pathway of the caravan). Though even these exceptions i'm not married to and am more than happy to hear reasoning for their exclusions.
Conclusion:
I personally think that Cart/Map should be closely linked, and that Cart would be an interesting artisan profession due to it's expanded possibilities.
I heard some really interesting points, and enjoyed the Office Hours regarding this.
Thank you to everyone who joined in on our Community Office Hours over in our Discord server! We appreciate all of the amazing feedback you provide on our socials, on Discord and especially here on the forums!
I'm hoping to see some new faces from Discord, and I of course love seeing all the familiar faces in these threads as well
I look forward to creating a report with all of your unique perspectives for our team
I want the map to cover what people would normally cover:
* Patrons
* Castle holders
* POIs that are static
* Settlements
Anything else I would not like to have on the map.
Events that are temporary should show on the map if you're in a certain proximity only. And events could kick off audio and visual that impacts a larger area and not show on the map.
Oh my gosh! You beat me here! So fast, lol. Thanks for the feedback in both Office hours and here on the forums
I'm surprised to hear people in the Office Hours forum stating that they don't want to see world bosses or events to show up on their map because they don't want to have to deal with competition. The best part of a sandbox MMO play is showing up to contest a boss fight. To me it's the reason that we'll see 80% of the dungeons be open world, for the contention. PLEASE make sure that we can see active events on the map.
I think innovative maps can help create memorable adventures if done right ^^
At the end of the day, memorable adventures is what it's all about, isn't it! Thank you for the feedback ^_^
This comment made me think of a feature that isn't a must have but an idea. What if when you click on POIs on the map it pulled up your journal and showed activity there. Either pregenerated notes based on activity (deaths, special monster kills, special loot found, etc.) or something you can manually pen? I like the idea of either but not sure tech that is an Alpha must have or a later addition down the road.
Innovate. I would like to see a mechanism that allows for map updates. Maybe players can "deliver" their personal map details to a cartographer NPC and get paid for new data and/or pay for an updated version of the local/regional/global map.
It would be fun to have a map that is not completely virtual feeling. Having to pull out a map and unfurl it. Something that you unlock a general map outline of the continents and all static areas and POI's that you unlock through exploration that don't change locations.
It would be nice if you could take your map and have it re-created by a cartographer who could customize your map into a certain style (font, colors, some design style, etc.). That tan leather and engraving look as an ex.
I'd also like to be able to be able to make notations on your personal map, maybe to chart a course when sailing, or for caravans (possibly also share with others in group so all know the route).
Would prefer sight & sound indicators of major world/zone events rather than memo's or map indicators. A dragon flying over the settlement and blazing fire through the air, maybe torch some buildings and set off to its lair in the mountains somewhere far off falling out of sight, but still in the node area somewhere. Then adventurers set off to go track it down. Much more fun than a timer with a open-world mob that doesn't move and is spawned to a set location like a statue with a timer for its active phase for players to all travel to like in Lost Ark.
Cyclone's and weather events could indicate these. Earthquakes, where the ground shakes as you get closer to a massive golem boss. Make the mobs and enemies interact with the map and zones and not be statues. I'd prefer this than an auto map or server indicator saying an event is going on.
Intelligent UI for cities/nodes especially for NPC's/shops is important. When opening map it goes to proper zoom level. All NPC's and vendor's appropriately displayed and icon's very easily visible without difficulty. Please make most shops centrally located in a shop area and not like many other games that place each different type at the far stretches of a node/city just to make you run to each one individually, such a pain and frustrating time sink. FF14 is terrible in this way.
I think innovative maps can help create memorable adventures if done right ^^
At the end of the day, memorable adventures is what it's all about, isn't it! Thank you for the feedback ^_^
This comment made me think of a feature that isn't a must have but an idea. What if when you click on POIs on the map it pulled up your journal and showed activity there. Either pregenerated notes based on activity (deaths, special monster kills, special loot found, etc.) or something you can manually pen? I like the idea of either but not sure tech that is an Alpha must have or a later addition down the road.
I didn't know I needed something so bad until I read this. Such a wonderful QoL feature that could be implemented (if their current flagging tech works well with it) that would make so many people's time in Ashes much more memorable.
As dubbed "The Mountain Goat" by my peers, I like this very much. Potentially don't even show players location on the map or have it as delayed updating and if party members leave your proximity they disappear on your map. This will encourage navigation/exploration, leadership and social/community engagement. Navigating land and seas using a compass, landmarks and the stars! Make intelligence brokers viable and give reputation sway. Similar to the rarity of flying mounts you could have a magical item ping your location on the map.
Fog of War - YES! I imagine traveling to another node that was a mear village only to discover it is now a city or completely destroyed from a siege. Imagine caravans creating new roads to be discovered and your map updating the roads from dirt to stone. Node Maps - Updated by node leaders and events. As if sending radio waves, auto updates the Node Maps of citizens in and around close proximity of the node as well as your position. Guild Maps - Updated by guild members with permissions. Shared at Guild Halls. Personal Map - Updated by player. Only shareable through vicinity engagements similar to trade requests. I imagine tagging points of interest such "Come back in Spring when the ice has melted' and tagging resource node locations by season. Archives - History of nodes/events and progression of the server. Allows for events such as treasure hunts at ruins of old node sieges. Battle Plans - Maps of the battle field with laid out formations. I imagine this being shared amongst Node Reps, Guild Leaders and stolen by spy's!
Although maps may not stand the test of time as 3rd parties/wikis become updated, I do believe it will create a strong sense of wonder and immersion that will create fond memories for all the pioneers. Although if content such as map expansion and world events are regular, whos to say it won't last?
I would personally love to see an innovative yet ever changing map as even our own [IRL] maps of the world evolve. As time goes on more details are added and POIs are updated or go stale until someone goes and checks that area out. But, just like the real world no one knows about it until that info is shared (think Google Maps or Map Books at the gas station, the public library). Changing map data should be passed on and wouldn't it be great if it could be monetized if someone wanted to (not mandatory)?
I saw someone mention, as I was thinking of it in the chat earlier today as well: the ability to produce bogus POIs, maybe even fake maps and leaving them (as someone else mentioned) buried for later, but all the while being subterfuge, the ability to use espionage to corrupt maps owned by Guilds?
I was thinking it might be amazing, if impractical, to add a Metropolis/City spell or ability (not sure what would be appropriate-maybe Metropolis' only), that while it might need to be a higher tier ability (say whatever the hardest is), allows a Metropolis/City to put collective work into a spell that gives clear map data out to a specific distance from the geographic center (call it "Stephen's Wonderous Gaze" or whatever) on whatever POIs everyone thinks are wise to allow a Metropolis level spell to reveal. It should be awfully difficult to achieve, using quests/boss mobs/crafting and an event of some kind. Not everyone in the Metropolis would even be able to see such critical map data, it could be limited to City leaders to disseminate to key members of the defense teams (Guilds etc.) for 'keeping the peace' and node growth or economics.
Well, that's a half-formed idea in my head but man it sounds fun for Metropolis' and such as an event to keep people engaged with all aspects of the node's development (safety, economics and intel on mobs/resources). I am thinking magic satellite but nerfed in a way. Like how different kinds of satellites only have specific resolutions, the spell could work the same...dunno', my head hurts now. Lastly, some kind of mechanic to allow a counter-spell in a small area within the Gaze's range for espionage or PvP, again this should be very difficult to achieve, only something a large group can pull off with dedicated caster support as way to ensure it isn't fool/fail proof.
I’d love to see a cartography profession, but there’s a practical edge where folks won’t need or want to buy the latest map.
So, it might be more useful to turn cartography into a character ‘non-weapon proficiency’ that would update one’s own map with a greater amount of relief depending on how many points you put into that skill.
There could also be a skill threshold that once passed provides a player not just with documented detail, but also some proactive hints about what might be close to them. For example, an explorer has such a deep sense of topography that he’s able to gauge where the contours of a ridge line may form a cavern, which he can be directed toward.
This would give those of us with a strong desire to explore Verra as thoroughly as possible the ability to invest in practical skills that would actively help us achieve that goal.
1
Options
FantmxMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I would love to see a cartographer skill however I wonder how well this would function in the modern day world of the internets. Back in early EQ this would have been awesome to have. Now, with how quickly crowdsourcing data can occur, will a third party site have the data publicly available before a cartographer could put in the work?
Maybe one way around this is to have the character only be able to access specific areas on a map if a cartographer has given them the knowledge. So the player might have all of the information needed, but their character would not.
Hummm... Seems to me that the Node system in itself will make a totally traditional update almost impossible. Personally I'm an explorer at heart so I'd lean towards a lot of what has been mentioned... somewhere in the 50/50, 75/25 area. You have cartography as a profession so some things need to be revisited while others are more stable and a known establishment. Seems to me that you have some room to do a hybrid without really commiting until some A2 testing is available...
Mapping becomes way more useful if there is no player marker. It sounds heavy for an MMO but .. life has no player marker. If you're going to be off screwing around without a map, good luck. It wouldn't really be hard to keep track of yourself in a small world with visible fantasy landmarks and pretty limited geography. Could lead to some fun situations of pathing your caravan, asking people for help, or just plain old getting lost.
Maps that show detail would actually be quite useful unless you're very familiar with the area.
Adding to that, a lot people complain about this idea and constantly loading the map screen to keep track of the area, but you could have still have a map of an area you've chosen on screen not dissimilar to a traditional minimap. It just wouldn't track you.. Like keeping a real map in your hand or shirt pocket, etc.
Comments
I dont really want "fog of war" like i dont know anything about the area, ive been there before... but definitely dont add or remove dungeons or landmarkes that may come or go, while ive been away.
As a few people have stated - any system that tries to limit information will likely be circumvented through crowd sourcing from players on a third-party website.
While Ashes is shying away from add-ons, a recent example of add-on circumvention was the Overwolf overlay for New World. The overlay did not need to hook into the game at all but would display all resource nodes on the map. While such an add-on was clearly not wanted by the devs, they had no means of preventing it.
I cannot see a world where the map could be new and innovative where the players did not invalidate it. I am not saying that it isn't possible, and perhaps the team doesn't care about players potentially invalidating the system. It could still be a fun little thing for people that refuse to use outside information, but that group of players will be a small fraction of the population. The team should not dedicate a large amount of time towards developing such a system if it can be easily invalidated.
So, yes. I would like to see something more interesting, but I do not see it being a feasible addition.
I would even suggest a permanent visibility on Castles/Nodes that are owned with some AOE visibility to neighboring areas.
Potentially even if you're in a guild, that sight transitions to fellow guildies, so if Bob goes to Point 1, the guild can see that. Would enhance the dynamic of a guild as well.
But permanent vision I dont like that so much.
- how does player moves and finds a way around the world (map , compass, waypoints )
- how does player perceive changes to the world
- how does player adapt to them
- how immersive it is
- how does it affect your playstyle
- how does it affect people around you
In conclusion I have thought about key aspects which would make great Map Discovery / Exploration a real adventure :
- immersivity
- engagement
- feeling of progression
- customization
- communitivity
In regard to this I have come up with this idea:
MAP
1 - Entering area unlocks it on map without any indicators
2 - Coming into vicinity of a structure unlock it on map f.e nodes, subnodes etc
3 - If a node has cartography merchant we should be able to buy some basic information
4 - Custom markings - every player should be able to customize the map and share these customization (this of course needs some limitations)
Map Progression
Map shouldn't be just a tool to look at but somthing you want to work with, something that points you toward progression.
Pressing on an area should open its information (Map Codex). Map Codex provides you with information about your progression in area (what you know) and hints about what you might want to check out (vague hint or direction).
Players - staying in area unlocks the informations.
- slaying various mobs unlocks them in your Map Codex. The more you kill the more you know about them.
Professsions
Depending on a profession you ulock other type of informations:
f.e
Herbalist - unlocks information about herbs in an area
Miner - unlocks information about ores in area
Woodcutter - unlocks information about wood types in area
etc..
Communitivity and customization
Cartography should allow players to share map or its parts with other players.
Custom markings should be always allowed to be shared between players.
Party Map there should be a system allowing Party/Raid Leader and "lieutenants" to draw or add temporary markings.
Map Changes
At first map shouldn't give you any information about changes before you see them. But as Ashes of Creation world is living its life you can encounter rumours or quests that are referring to certain area. That could trigger your map to display a warning like "gold ! mark or ? " that something is happening in there. Information shouldn't come out of nowhere.
I want the map to cover what people would normally cover:
* Patrons
* Castle holders
* POIs that are static
* Settlements
Anything else I would not like to have on the map.
Events that are temporary should show on the map if you're in a certain proximity only. And events could kick off audio and visual that impacts a larger area and not show on the map.
I think cartography should be cartography, you should have to skill it up as a profession, it should require the right tools for the job as it skills higher.
Guilds should have to have a cartographers table in order to share their map.
That would simulate having fog of war, a player only has a local map of a region updated to the last time they were there and don't have a map for places they haven't been to yet.
A rough idea of the map/cartography system that I think would be nice in AoC.
Regarding Cartography:
Subbing to Carts would allow players the "ease" of not having to constantly buy maps, while still allowing carts to make an income based on their constant explorations.
Now carts can still sell maps regarding dungeon explorations, raids, treasure maps, ect... instead of subscription maps if they choose to do so.
This would also allow players to have accesses to an updated "guild" map for more sensitive info regarding their own activities.
Regarding World Map:
I think there should be multiple filters of different uses of the map (topography, climate conditions, ect...).
While certain things shouldn't show on the "general" map like caravans, players, hidden quest/npc, ect... There are exceptions of course (if a caravan attacker has some how bought caravan path map then they would know the general pathway of the caravan). Though even these exceptions i'm not married to and am more than happy to hear reasoning for their exclusions.
Conclusion:
I personally think that Cart/Map should be closely linked, and that Cart would be an interesting artisan profession due to it's expanded possibilities.
I heard some really interesting points, and enjoyed the Office Hours regarding this.
I'm hoping to see some new faces from Discord, and I of course love seeing all the familiar faces in these threads as well
I look forward to creating a report with all of your unique perspectives for our team
Oh my gosh! You beat me here! So fast, lol. Thanks for the feedback in both Office hours and here on the forums
Thank you for dropping your feedback here for us as well
With that said, do you have anything you'd like to see out of the in-game map that might make it differ from what you'd find from outside resources?
At the end of the day, memorable adventures is what it's all about, isn't it! Thank you for the feedback ^_^
This comment made me think of a feature that isn't a must have but an idea. What if when you click on POIs on the map it pulled up your journal and showed activity there. Either pregenerated notes based on activity (deaths, special monster kills, special loot found, etc.) or something you can manually pen? I like the idea of either but not sure tech that is an Alpha must have or a later addition down the road.
It would be nice if you could take your map and have it re-created by a cartographer who could customize your map into a certain style (font, colors, some design style, etc.). That tan leather and engraving look as an ex.
I'd also like to be able to be able to make notations on your personal map, maybe to chart a course when sailing, or for caravans (possibly also share with others in group so all know the route).
Would prefer sight & sound indicators of major world/zone events rather than memo's or map indicators. A dragon flying over the settlement and blazing fire through the air, maybe torch some buildings and set off to its lair in the mountains somewhere far off falling out of sight, but still in the node area somewhere. Then adventurers set off to go track it down. Much more fun than a timer with a open-world mob that doesn't move and is spawned to a set location like a statue with a timer for its active phase for players to all travel to like in Lost Ark.
Cyclone's and weather events could indicate these. Earthquakes, where the ground shakes as you get closer to a massive golem boss. Make the mobs and enemies interact with the map and zones and not be statues. I'd prefer this than an auto map or server indicator saying an event is going on.
Intelligent UI for cities/nodes especially for NPC's/shops is important. When opening map it goes to proper zoom level. All NPC's and vendor's appropriately displayed and icon's very easily visible without difficulty. Please make most shops centrally located in a shop area and not like many other games that place each different type at the far stretches of a node/city just to make you run to each one individually, such a pain and frustrating time sink. FF14 is terrible in this way.
I didn't know I needed something so bad until I read this. Such a wonderful QoL feature that could be implemented (if their current flagging tech works well with it) that would make so many people's time in Ashes much more memorable.
Fog of War - YES! I imagine traveling to another node that was a mear village only to discover it is now a city or completely destroyed from a siege. Imagine caravans creating new roads to be discovered and your map updating the roads from dirt to stone.
Node Maps - Updated by node leaders and events. As if sending radio waves, auto updates the Node Maps of citizens in and around close proximity of the node as well as your position.
Guild Maps - Updated by guild members with permissions. Shared at Guild Halls.
Personal Map - Updated by player. Only shareable through vicinity engagements similar to trade requests. I imagine tagging points of interest such "Come back in Spring when the ice has melted' and tagging resource node locations by season.
Archives - History of nodes/events and progression of the server. Allows for events such as treasure hunts at ruins of old node sieges.
Battle Plans - Maps of the battle field with laid out formations. I imagine this being shared amongst Node Reps, Guild Leaders and stolen by spy's!
Although maps may not stand the test of time as 3rd parties/wikis become updated, I do believe it will create a strong sense of wonder and immersion that will create fond memories for all the pioneers. Although if content such as map expansion and world events are regular, whos to say it won't last?
Although unlikely, one can dream.
Keep up the good work
I saw someone mention, as I was thinking of it in the chat earlier today as well: the ability to produce bogus POIs, maybe even fake maps and leaving them (as someone else mentioned) buried for later, but all the while being subterfuge, the ability to use espionage to corrupt maps owned by Guilds?
I was thinking it might be amazing, if impractical, to add a Metropolis/City spell or ability (not sure what would be appropriate-maybe Metropolis' only), that while it might need to be a higher tier ability (say whatever the hardest is), allows a Metropolis/City to put collective work into a spell that gives clear map data out to a specific distance from the geographic center (call it "Stephen's Wonderous Gaze" or whatever) on whatever POIs everyone thinks are wise to allow a Metropolis level spell to reveal. It should be awfully difficult to achieve, using quests/boss mobs/crafting and an event of some kind. Not everyone in the Metropolis would even be able to see such critical map data, it could be limited to City leaders to disseminate to key members of the defense teams (Guilds etc.) for 'keeping the peace' and node growth or economics.
Well, that's a half-formed idea in my head but man it sounds fun for Metropolis' and such as an event to keep people engaged with all aspects of the node's development (safety, economics and intel on mobs/resources). I am thinking magic satellite but nerfed in a way. Like how different kinds of satellites only have specific resolutions, the spell could work the same...dunno', my head hurts now. Lastly, some kind of mechanic to allow a counter-spell in a small area within the Gaze's range for espionage or PvP, again this should be very difficult to achieve, only something a large group can pull off with dedicated caster support as way to ensure it isn't fool/fail proof.
Good ideas among many:
So, it might be more useful to turn cartography into a character ‘non-weapon proficiency’ that would update one’s own map with a greater amount of relief depending on how many points you put into that skill.
There could also be a skill threshold that once passed provides a player not just with documented detail, but also some proactive hints about what might be close to them. For example, an explorer has such a deep sense of topography that he’s able to gauge where the contours of a ridge line may form a cavern, which he can be directed toward.
This would give those of us with a strong desire to explore Verra as thoroughly as possible the ability to invest in practical skills that would actively help us achieve that goal.
Maybe one way around this is to have the character only be able to access specific areas on a map if a cartographer has given them the knowledge. So the player might have all of the information needed, but their character would not.
Amar
Maps that show detail would actually be quite useful unless you're very familiar with the area.
Adding to that, a lot people complain about this idea and constantly loading the map screen to keep track of the area, but you could have still have a map of an area you've chosen on screen not dissimilar to a traditional minimap. It just wouldn't track you.. Like keeping a real map in your hand or shirt pocket, etc.
In real life, I have 5+ senses to help orient myself.
Dygz is right. They need to add 5+ senses to the game.