I could see this getting really repetitive and not feel unique besides the weapon being shown off..
And I'm almost sure that there'll be several classes that feel repetitive in their ability visuals/effects. There always are and there ought to be several in Ashes purely due to its class design. Hell, most secondary summoner classes would probably have some very similar-looking augments in the skillsets.
But it's not even about that. I see no real reason why Intrepid should limit themselves in how they design archetype abilities. Fight can use essence just as well as anyone else. His use would just take a different form from other archetypes. And the form of a summoned weapon is a valid one imo.
I could see this getting really repetitive and not feel unique besides the weapon being shown off..
And I'm almost sure that there'll be several classes that feel repetitive in their ability visuals/effects. There always are and there ought to be several in Ashes purely due to its class design. Hell, most secondary summoner classes would probably have some very similar-looking augments in the skillsets.
But it's not even about that. I see no real reason why Intrepid should limit themselves in how they design archetype abilities. Fight can use essence just as well as anyone else. His use would just take a different form from other archetypes. And the form of a summoned weapon is a valid one imo.
If it has to be a summoned weapon.. I’d much prefer the weapon they are wielding or have different skills to choose from for what to use. Like choose hammer if you like that skill or a sword. If I’m wielding puny daggers I don’t want to just swing a giant hammer down on people.
I’m sure there are other animations that could be used to represent that.
I'm sure there will be. Don't use Hammer Strike if you don't like it. It won't be the only Essence Active Skill for that Primary Archetype.
Also...it's likely to have a different visual when augments are applied to it. Might even be able to purchase a cosmetic for it from the cash shop.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
The class has nothing to do with it, it could be a 2 ft gnome healer tank or dps idgaf, the animation looks dumb. Having it look like a typical swing makes sense, looks better, and is still just as magical
It looks dumb if it's supposed to look exactly like a person were wielding it with muscles, rather than magic.
Sure.
big hammer spell effect was a bit cringe if you see the guy holdin a sword
But if he has a work tool like a hammer, then it could be cool having a secondary attack as that... then if you had an axe the spell effect would be an axe... and so on
PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
Keep in mind, that many of the abilities and spells are a WIP and are subject to change, especially leading up to and during Alpha Two!
Thank you for mentioning this. I really just wanted to bring it up and hope it is looked into at some point is all. If it’s an optional skill, gets changed into a different skill to fit the fighter better, is based on the secondary archetype for your class or the skill animation is different based the weapon you wield, then that would be great.
I’m sure there are other animations that could be used to represent that.
I'm sure there will be. Don't use Hammer Strike if you don't like it. It won't be the only Essence Active Skill for that Primary Archetype.
Also...it's likely to have a different visual when augments are applied to it. Might even be able to purchase a cosmetic for it from the cash shop.
If this is really the case then that’s perfectly fine.
The class has nothing to do with it, it could be a 2 ft gnome healer tank or dps idgaf, the animation looks dumb. Having it look like a typical swing makes sense, looks better, and is still just as magical
It looks dumb if it's supposed to look exactly like a person were wielding it with muscles, rather than magic.
Sure.
Ya does it? Cause I could only assume, since we haven't seen that.
Now if we follow your line of thought, it might look dumb to fire a magical bow in a way similar to real life?
Azkâr bow from Shadow of Mordor, the animation is quite similar to how one might draw a longbow,
Want stuff straight from AOC? The cleric, why does the whip have physics similar to a whip used in real life its magical,
Lets go more broad, Why have gravity, awfully dumb to have someone walk based off how we walk in real life.
Look there are a billion examples of games modeling abilities after real life, its because its feels good and looks good(depending on the type of game of course), but its a matter of opinion, and my opinion is that the Hammer swinging backward then forward looks dumb as hell, regardless of how magical it is or what class you are using.
Keep in mind, that many of the abilities and spells are a WIP and are subject to change, especially leading up to and during Alpha Two!
I love the teams enthusiasm for cool looking for affects, I also like functionality first, then art second. Provided all of the art in the game flows harmoniously together.
Not particularly a fan of the animation myself. Would rather have a ground tremor effect than a giant conjured weapon slamming into the ground. Especially for a fighter.
I agree the straight up and down swing looks more comical than forceful.
The fighters force should of course be connected with the essence, becuase how else do they generate super human feats. As such I dont have an issue with the magical qualities of this ability per se just its current presentation.
I think something as small as further changes to the abilities colour would do a lot. Its yellowish hue is a tad close to the holy colour scheme, maybe a white and more ancestoral aesthetic would suit this?
As for the disparity between the hammer projection and weapon equip, maybe while casting this ability the fighter can swing a clenched fist, rather than their equip weapon. Essence manifesting as a hammer, an incarnation of the fighters bodily mastery.
Agreed, most people just don't like hammer weapons so they are throwing their dislike to the skill.
It’s not a dislike with the skill, it’s a dislike with the animation making sense when dual wielding daggers and greatsword. It looks unnatural. My post says that the hammer animation itself is cool and it should stay, but for paladin like classes and/or crushing weapons. This is not some hate brigade on the skill itself.
Hammer has nothing to do with paladin. Paladins use all sorts of weapons just like a fighter...
This is not the point I’m trying to make. I’m saying if these skills are class based then why not do it for a paladin instead of a fighter. Paladins use holy magic so it makes sense they can do something like that. On a fighter it ruins immersion.
Now if we follow your line of thought, it might look dumb to fire a magical bow in a way similar to real life?
Azkâr bow from Shadow of Mordor, the animation is quite similar to how one might draw a longbow,
That does not follow my line of thought at all.
I didn't say that when a magical weapon animation looks exactly like the mechanics of a physical weapon, it looks dumb.
Rather, I said that magical weapon animations that don't look exactly like the mechanics of a physical weapon might seem dumb if the intention is that they work exactly like physical weapons.
But... since magical weapons don't have to rely on the constraints of physics, there is no reason to expect them all to look exactly like the mechanics of physical weapons.
Whoever created that ability on Verra may not have been interested in making the magical animation look exactly like it would if the Fighter used a physical Hammer. The animation is symbolic and thematic - it doesn't have to be exact.
Similar to heiroglyphics or kanji or other symbolic forms of communication.
Similar to the difference between Impressionistic art and Hyper-Realism.
I don't think Castigation looks exactly like the swing of a physical whip.
It looks close enough - just like Hammer Strike.
Same for Javelin. Same for Onslaught.
Ultimate Defense also doesn't look exactly like how physical shields are wielded.
@Dygz Ya the hammer swing looks like the opposite of irl though, and again its a matter of my opinion regarding the hammer swing, whether or not it works exactly like physical weapons does not matter to me, i am giving my feedback regarding the hammer because it looks funky and i dont like it. It has nothing to do with the class wielding it nor the magical or physical components of the ability.
I pure and simple don't like it because it swings backward then forward, your argument regarding realism for physical vs magical abilities is completely irrelevant.
I am arguing purely for the fact that I don't like the animation and the solution I gave was to change the animation to be more realistic, because I think it would look better, merely critiquing and giving a solution at the same time.
Again this has nothing to do with whether or not I believe this has to be animated to match real life or not, my initial argument only gives feedback and provides and alternative, regardless of class, magical or physical aspects of this ability.
People not liking the animations is fine, i always say BDO has great animation references that feel very impactful. People's issues with this is because it feels very static and grounded with the hammer attack and it is pretty symmetrical without that right kind of flare to wow people.
Between :14-:16 there is a jump ground slam that has really good animation and weight to it which would be good reference.
Agreed, most people just don't like hammer weapons so they are throwing their dislike to the skill.
It’s not a dislike with the skill, it’s a dislike with the animation making sense when dual wielding daggers and greatsword. It looks unnatural. My post says that the hammer animation itself is cool and it should stay, but for paladin like classes and/or crushing weapons. This is not some hate brigade on the skill itself.
Hammer has nothing to do with paladin. Paladins use all sorts of weapons just like a fighter...
This is not the point I’m trying to make. I’m saying if these skills are class based then why not do it for a paladin instead of a fighter. Paladins use holy magic so it makes sense they can do something like that. On a fighter it ruins immersion.
The hammer isn't holy magic lol.
It visually looks like it is what I meant, not literally. Regardless it’s a conjured magic hammer.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Ya the hammer swing looks like the opposite of irl though, and again its a matter of my opinion regarding the hammer swing, whether or not it works exactly like physical weapons does not matter to me, i am giving my feedback regarding the hammer because it looks funky and i dont like it. It has nothing to do with the class wielding it nor the magical or physical components of the ability.
Um. No. Objectively, Hammer Strike does not work the opposite of irl. The hammer swings down and strikes similar to a hammer striking a nail. I'm not exactly sure what opposite could mean for a battle hammer since a battle hammer could also strike up and deal damage.
I pure and simple don't like it because it swings backward then forward, your argument regarding realism for physical vs magical abilities is completely irrelevant.
When I hit a nail with a hammer, I swing it backwards and up... and then forward and down.
That's the way hammers work in real life.
I am arguing purely for the fact that I don't like the animation and the solution I gave was to change the animation to be more realistic, because I think it would look better, merely critiquing and giving a solution at the same time.
Here you seem to be saying that you prefer the animation to look mimic the mechanics of a battle hammer rathert than the mechanics of a nail drivng hammer.
Which, yes... is a different argument than saying the animation is the opposite of irl.
@Dygz A framing hammer is far different than a maul/axe, we are talking about the latter. It works opposite was an exaggeration but it most definitely does not model how a real life swing would look.
To restate more concisely, I would like IS to change the Hammer strike animation from a backwards -> forwards swing to a swing more similar to a human swinging a maul. My reasoning for this change is that I dislike the current animation.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited December 2022
Right. And I'm saying that because that Hammer is a magical construct, the creator of the animation does not have to be constrained by the physics of a Human swinging a maul.
You said it looks unnatural - and I said that's becaue it is supernatural and not constrained by how a Human would swing a physical maul using physics - since its not using physics, the animation is more up to artistic interpretation - in-game, that's whatever "mage" created the ability.
And, sure, you might not like that artistic interpretation - especially if you want the mechanics of the swing to more be more on the realistic end of the spectrum than impressionistic.
I don't think we have a disagreement, here.
You said the animation looks unnatural and I'm saying, yeah, it's supernatural, rather than natural.
You don't like it and want the devs to change it - I really have nothing to say about that. They can change it if they choose to.
Right. And I'm saying that because that Hammer is a magical construct, the creator of the animation does not have to be constrained by the physics of a Human swinging a maul.
You said it looks unnatural - and I said that's becaue it is supernatural and not constrained by how a Human would swing a physical maul using physics - since its not using physics, the animation is more up to artistic interpretation - in-game, that's whatever "mage" created the ability.
And, sure, you might not like that artistic interpretation - especially if you want the mechanics of the swing to more be more on the realistic end of the spectrum than impressionistic.
I don't think we have a disagreement, here.
You said the animation looks unnatural and I'm saying, yeah, it's supernatural, rather than natural.
You don't like it and want the devs to change it - I really have nothing to say about that. They can change it if they choose to.
I think what he means is, it doesn't look believable. something supernatural can look believable. art is fiction and looks believable. in this case, the hammer visual doesn't fit. it looks odd and not believable
Never said it had to be constrained by physics, or make it natural or any interpretation other than a suggestion regarding how i'd like it. I have literally only ever stated my opinion, are you just bored or something, stop arguing with me, or whatever this is?
I think what he means is, it doesn't look believable. something supernatural can look believable. art is fiction and looks believable. in this case, the hammer visual doesn't fit. it looks odd and not believable
I think I said what you just wrote...
A magical construct can appear more realistic or more impressionistic.
For believable - all you need is - is it recognizable as a hammer and will it actually inflict damage on the down-swing.
I think what he means is, it doesn't look believable. something supernatural can look believable. art is fiction and looks believable. in this case, the hammer visual doesn't fit. it looks odd and not believable
I think I said what you just wrote...
A magical construct can appear more realistic or more impressionistic.
For believable - all you need is - is it recognizable as a hammer and will it actually inflict damage on the down-swing.
if we gave the exact same animation to a ranger using a bow, would the hammer look believable then?
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Why would the animation for the Bow affect whether or not the Hammer looks believable?
Comments
But it's not even about that. I see no real reason why Intrepid should limit themselves in how they design archetype abilities. Fight can use essence just as well as anyone else. His use would just take a different form from other archetypes. And the form of a summoned weapon is a valid one imo.
If it has to be a summoned weapon.. I’d much prefer the weapon they are wielding or have different skills to choose from for what to use. Like choose hammer if you like that skill or a sword. If I’m wielding puny daggers I don’t want to just swing a giant hammer down on people.
Also...it's likely to have a different visual when augments are applied to it. Might even be able to purchase a cosmetic for it from the cash shop.
Sure.
Keep in mind, that many of the abilities and spells are a WIP and are subject to change, especially leading up to and during Alpha Two!
But if he has a work tool like a hammer, then it could be cool having a secondary attack as that... then if you had an axe the spell effect would be an axe... and so on
Thank you for mentioning this. I really just wanted to bring it up and hope it is looked into at some point is all. If it’s an optional skill, gets changed into a different skill to fit the fighter better, is based on the secondary archetype for your class or the skill animation is different based the weapon you wield, then that would be great.
If this is really the case then that’s perfectly fine.
Thank you!
Ya does it? Cause I could only assume, since we haven't seen that.
Now if we follow your line of thought, it might look dumb to fire a magical bow in a way similar to real life?
Azkâr bow from Shadow of Mordor, the animation is quite similar to how one might draw a longbow,
Want stuff straight from AOC? The cleric, why does the whip have physics similar to a whip used in real life its magical,
Lets go more broad, Why have gravity, awfully dumb to have someone walk based off how we walk in real life.
Look there are a billion examples of games modeling abilities after real life, its because its feels good and looks good(depending on the type of game of course), but its a matter of opinion, and my opinion is that the Hammer swinging backward then forward looks dumb as hell, regardless of how magical it is or what class you are using.
I love the teams enthusiasm for cool looking for affects, I also like functionality first, then art second. Provided all of the art in the game flows harmoniously together.
The fighters force should of course be connected with the essence, becuase how else do they generate super human feats. As such I dont have an issue with the magical qualities of this ability per se just its current presentation.
I think something as small as further changes to the abilities colour would do a lot. Its yellowish hue is a tad close to the holy colour scheme, maybe a white and more ancestoral aesthetic would suit this?
As for the disparity between the hammer projection and weapon equip, maybe while casting this ability the fighter can swing a clenched fist, rather than their equip weapon. Essence manifesting as a hammer, an incarnation of the fighters bodily mastery.
The hammer isn't holy magic lol.
I didn't say that when a magical weapon animation looks exactly like the mechanics of a physical weapon, it looks dumb.
Rather, I said that magical weapon animations that don't look exactly like the mechanics of a physical weapon might seem dumb if the intention is that they work exactly like physical weapons.
But... since magical weapons don't have to rely on the constraints of physics, there is no reason to expect them all to look exactly like the mechanics of physical weapons.
Whoever created that ability on Verra may not have been interested in making the magical animation look exactly like it would if the Fighter used a physical Hammer. The animation is symbolic and thematic - it doesn't have to be exact.
Similar to heiroglyphics or kanji or other symbolic forms of communication.
Similar to the difference between Impressionistic art and Hyper-Realism.
I don't think Castigation looks exactly like the swing of a physical whip.
It looks close enough - just like Hammer Strike.
Same for Javelin. Same for Onslaught.
Ultimate Defense also doesn't look exactly like how physical shields are wielded.
I pure and simple don't like it because it swings backward then forward, your argument regarding realism for physical vs magical abilities is completely irrelevant.
I am arguing purely for the fact that I don't like the animation and the solution I gave was to change the animation to be more realistic, because I think it would look better, merely critiquing and giving a solution at the same time.
Again this has nothing to do with whether or not I believe this has to be animated to match real life or not, my initial argument only gives feedback and provides and alternative, regardless of class, magical or physical aspects of this ability.
Between :14-:16 there is a jump ground slam that has really good animation and weight to it which would be good reference.
It visually looks like it is what I meant, not literally. Regardless it’s a conjured magic hammer.
When I hit a nail with a hammer, I swing it backwards and up... and then forward and down.
That's the way hammers work in real life.
Here you seem to be saying that you prefer the animation to look mimic the mechanics of a battle hammer rathert than the mechanics of a nail drivng hammer.
Which, yes... is a different argument than saying the animation is the opposite of irl.
To restate more concisely, I would like IS to change the Hammer strike animation from a backwards -> forwards swing to a swing more similar to a human swinging a maul. My reasoning for this change is that I dislike the current animation.
You said it looks unnatural - and I said that's becaue it is supernatural and not constrained by how a Human would swing a physical maul using physics - since its not using physics, the animation is more up to artistic interpretation - in-game, that's whatever "mage" created the ability.
And, sure, you might not like that artistic interpretation - especially if you want the mechanics of the swing to more be more on the realistic end of the spectrum than impressionistic.
I don't think we have a disagreement, here.
You said the animation looks unnatural and I'm saying, yeah, it's supernatural, rather than natural.
You don't like it and want the devs to change it - I really have nothing to say about that. They can change it if they choose to.
I think what he means is, it doesn't look believable. something supernatural can look believable. art is fiction and looks believable. in this case, the hammer visual doesn't fit. it looks odd and not believable
Trim the fat on the art, sometimes less is more.
A magical construct can appear more realistic or more impressionistic.
For believable - all you need is - is it recognizable as a hammer and will it actually inflict damage on the down-swing.
Now I don’t agree with all that. I love the animations as a whole
if we gave the exact same animation to a ranger using a bow, would the hammer look believable then?