Best Of
Re: What are your 'class fantasies' for the 64 classes
Okay, here's my concept:
Ranger + Mage aka a Scion
Imagine shooting elemental arrows at your opponents. Finally a ranger class I can actually enjoy.
I'm going to use Frost Mage school augments to demonstrate how this class will differ from the base class.
Also, this would be the easiest to do for me, as we don't really have that much info on what other augments will look like, + we already have base Ranger skills to use as examples.
I could really continue with this, and do every single ability, but I think you get the point by now.
Visually your class is very close to a mage, except you are still a Ranger that shoots arrows, with Ranger mechanics, which should be the entire point of the augment system. The fact that abilities stay relatively the same mechanics wise is not an issue at all. Actually, this way you have several ways of playing a mage-like character, and your base class determines the mechanics. Or you could go for an actual Mage, and play with Mage mechanics, with different subclasses to change the way it looks. Options are there everyone.
It may be difficult to understand this for some people because we don't have actual footage of how the following abilities will look with augments. For now, think of Ashe from League of Legends.
Over these past few days, I've heard people say that none of the subclasses will feel unique enough, because augment system is bad, yet if it is going to work anything like my example, then it's simply not true. I also do expect them to change some abilities much more than I did, especially with other archetypes that are not as clear as mage.
And the main thing is, they do need to nail the visual change when using augmented abilities. They should look different, even if they do the same or similar thing mechanically.
There is a decision to be made whether the class will still mainly deal Physical damage, with only applying elemental status effects/debuffs, or should we convert most of the damage to Frost. I'm fine with either option.
Thoughts? Am I too optimistic? Too pessimistic? Delusional?
Ashe from LoL was all you needed to say but I do like the detailed thought on how individual skills are modified to work with the new theme, for example Headshot now procing on Frozen status rather then damage level *chef kiss*
This is a good example of a how multiple modest 'Flavor' changes to skills can if all consistent and focused achive more then the sum of their parts in making your class play differently, in this case the CC effects of Frost give a mechanical bent to the Ranger making them a more crowd control orietend then vanilla ranger. We get a lot of that by leaning on existing mechanics in elemental damage so Mage secondary is kind of 'easy mode' for making distinctions and I agree that other cases will need to make more changes but not that much more if the design is focused.
The only thing I would change is that I don't belive (due to Intrepid realizing the need to downscope) we get 4 augment choices after picking secondary archetype and I'm making all my class fantasies under that assumption (thus 64 of them rather then 255, I have limits). This leads to a problem of how to get all 3 elements into the Ranger.
My solution, adapt the Ranger Hunt system into an elemental selector, the Hunts lose their current bonus and for their duration imbue the rangers basic attacks and skills with Fire, Ice or Lightning effects. So all the effects that would have been under three augments are now in battle options as you swap Hunts on the fly to determine your elemental type. Lossing the Hunts current effect feels like a reasonable cost and is consistent with you not being a pure ranger anymore. It's notable that a lot of other classes also seem to get 'modes' like fighter stances which could similarly be adapted for element selection when a Mage secondary is taken. Due to how elemental effect stack and proc it is desirable to be firing all the same damage type anyways.
Lastly as for damage ratios I think 1/3rd damage switched to the elemental type would be good, your still principaly a physical damage dealer because Ranger base archetype but your dipping into Mages ability to get around physical defense.
Lodrig
3
What are your 'class fantasies' for the 64 classes
Part of the discussion over augments and classes hinges on peoples expectations for how a class will work. Most players have a conception of what a Paladin or a Necromancer are mechanically and what they bring to a party composition. And while the primary/secondary archetype model is a overall accurate description of what they bring it lacks the detail or focus that would be a description of a skill kit and how the player would tactically behave in battle.
I'm brainstorming simple tactical descriptions of each class and the core elements of its kit which distinquish it from either the base or secondary archetype. I'm seeking to think of a means by which the characteristics of the base class can be most easily bent to serve the role of the secondary. For example how would a Bard act as a Tank, could the Bard just littlerally be able to take a lot of damage in the traditional sense, yes but that's excedinlgy dull. On the otherhand a Bard that memzerizes oponents and causes them to stop attacking and thus neutralizing their aggression is achiving the goal of a Tank in a Bardic way, AND fuffilling a coherent class fantasy impled by the name 'Siren'. Package that into a short description and you get
Bard/Tank - Sirens are able to produce such aluring performances that enemies at short range are compelled to follow the Siren in a trance state for a limited distance. So long as the tranced arn't attacked they will stop attacking and can be lead away. In this way they controls and nulifies enemy aggression while providing a way to pull apart enemy groups.
Other examples
Mage/Fighter - Battle Mages specialize in touch delivered magical attacks and short range fan blast effects. Combined with the robustness to survive in the front lines of battle the Battle Mage is excellent at confronting clustered frontline combatants who typically lack good elemental resistance.
Rogue/Cleric - Cultists focus on long casting time high impact dark rituals cast while in stealth. Their rituals can empower themselves and allies with short lived temporary Health and lifesteal abilities to unleash in deadly surprise attacks if they can complete their castings before being detected.
Summoner/Mage - Spellmancers summon elemental themed minions which deal elemental damage and can use their minions as the location for creating AoE spell effects by dispelling the minion in a burst of magical energy. Minions felled in battle by the enemy likewise burst making them all effectivly walking magical bombs thrown at the enemy ranks.
What similar class fantasies can other folks imagine?
I'm brainstorming simple tactical descriptions of each class and the core elements of its kit which distinquish it from either the base or secondary archetype. I'm seeking to think of a means by which the characteristics of the base class can be most easily bent to serve the role of the secondary. For example how would a Bard act as a Tank, could the Bard just littlerally be able to take a lot of damage in the traditional sense, yes but that's excedinlgy dull. On the otherhand a Bard that memzerizes oponents and causes them to stop attacking and thus neutralizing their aggression is achiving the goal of a Tank in a Bardic way, AND fuffilling a coherent class fantasy impled by the name 'Siren'. Package that into a short description and you get
Bard/Tank - Sirens are able to produce such aluring performances that enemies at short range are compelled to follow the Siren in a trance state for a limited distance. So long as the tranced arn't attacked they will stop attacking and can be lead away. In this way they controls and nulifies enemy aggression while providing a way to pull apart enemy groups.
Other examples
Mage/Fighter - Battle Mages specialize in touch delivered magical attacks and short range fan blast effects. Combined with the robustness to survive in the front lines of battle the Battle Mage is excellent at confronting clustered frontline combatants who typically lack good elemental resistance.
Rogue/Cleric - Cultists focus on long casting time high impact dark rituals cast while in stealth. Their rituals can empower themselves and allies with short lived temporary Health and lifesteal abilities to unleash in deadly surprise attacks if they can complete their castings before being detected.
Summoner/Mage - Spellmancers summon elemental themed minions which deal elemental damage and can use their minions as the location for creating AoE spell effects by dispelling the minion in a burst of magical energy. Minions felled in battle by the enemy likewise burst making them all effectivly walking magical bombs thrown at the enemy ranks.
What similar class fantasies can other folks imagine?
Lodrig
2
Re: What are your 'class fantasies' for the 64 classes
I mean...
We've been waiting 5+ years for the last two Know Your Nodes articles...
And 7+ years for Nodes 3.
We tend to get info later rather than sooner...
Good things take time, right ?
But Ashes of Creation and Intrepid take this to a completely new Level.
When i think about it,
JUST FOR the amazing Engine alone, which shall enable Players to run around in massive Numbers in the same Area without freakish Frame-incursions and Disconnects ... ...
Aszkalon
1
Re: Forum suggestions to be ready for the influx of users
1) Can the subforums be made more accessible? I feel like 90% of the viewerbase never see anything but the "General Discussion" section and the posts with mod announcements. If the home page would list number of new posts with new messages since I last opened each subforum, I might actually consider looking at the home page, and I'm sure I'm not the only one...
2) I really think we need downvotes/dislikes. There's so much misinformation coming from people who haven't been here for more than a week and confidently asserting their assumptions into the world. Downvotes would help draw attention to flawed assumptions, instead of letting the majority opinion be decided by the first three people who happened to show up.
Certified new guy here reporting for duty.
Try to remember that many of you have been living in this world for YEARS and the stuff that you take for granted is new and exciting to those of us just coming onboard now.
Also understand that new people coming in and challenging the conventional wisdom is actually a good thing, especially at this point in the development cycle. It is very easy to get locked into a way of thinking without realizing that the parameters of the problem have changed. Sometimes a ridiculous newbie coming in and completely misunderstanding the game can reveal flaws in your own thinking, or critical oversights in the implementation of a feature or system.
Rippley
1
Re: Fixing the Class system
I mean... it's been 7 years and we haven't had any Augments showcased in the game yet...I think such a system might be Intrepid biting off more than they can realistically chew. But if they are committed to such a system then the most reasonable thing to do would be to narrow down the number of combinations and simply don't make augments for the combinations you aren't supporting on launch. If ARGENT(Tank/Bard) isn't available at launch then they just don't make any Bard augments for Tank abilities until they are ready to release that class. I would be OKAY with them doing this if the alternative is boring watered down augments that don't meaningfully change the way the class plays.
But... Augments and the Ashes Class System are primary hooks for Ashes - along with Nodes, so... failing to meet those design goals would likely be quite catastrophic.
Dygz
6
Re: will this game ever launch
No.
After this knee-jerk kowtow over key prices supposedly being to expensive when steven has previously always stood by a mantra of "build a good game and they will come."
All that it's shown is intrepid is quite happy to throw its original supporters under a bus for people who aren't even involved in this community. I have zero faith that we will get the game that was advertised.
I fully expect each and every promise made by Steven will prove to be hollow and naught but ash.
If intrepid are bowing to people who aren't even involved in this game then what is next?
How long until PVP is scrapped?
How long until we get the instanced content clogging the world so that I never have to see another person?
How long until the third party meta chasing bullshit gets added?
When is the p2w planned?
I loved what intrepid were doing and their direction. But they've completely broken my faith that they will stick to their ideals.
After this knee-jerk kowtow over key prices supposedly being to expensive when steven has previously always stood by a mantra of "build a good game and they will come."
All that it's shown is intrepid is quite happy to throw its original supporters under a bus for people who aren't even involved in this community. I have zero faith that we will get the game that was advertised.
I fully expect each and every promise made by Steven will prove to be hollow and naught but ash.
If intrepid are bowing to people who aren't even involved in this game then what is next?
How long until PVP is scrapped?
How long until we get the instanced content clogging the world so that I never have to see another person?
How long until the third party meta chasing bullshit gets added?
When is the p2w planned?
I loved what intrepid were doing and their direction. But they've completely broken my faith that they will stick to their ideals.
Hinotori
2