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Please don't force us to be victims of PvPers!

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Comments

  • Nefelia said:
    Seaber said:
    Nefelia said:
    We've established that:
    - there are no incentives for random open-world murder.
    - there are, in fact, serious penalties for random open-world murder.
    It is false to say there are no incentives, as players who die drop a percentage of carried raw materials.

    While there can be serious penalties for a corrupt character dying, there are also greater penalties for a character dying as a non-combatant than as a combatant.

    Choosing to not fight back and letting your character be killed* is choosing to lose twice as much exp, durability and raw materials to spite the player that killed them. This could be a source of great strife.

    *Online players are well known for doing things against their self interest just to spite strangers but in general it's the more aggressive players that do so which will be the ones initiating the red vs green fights.
    A fair point.

    There is an incentive to kill some people in the open world, such as gatherers moving a full load via mule. But that is not so much random murder as it is a lethal mugging by a bandit. ;)

    I'm sure that looting will take place, and this is something that gatherers will need to plan for in order to avoid bandits. I'm personally fine with this element since it is a good reflection of reality.

    Criminals exist, but they don't operate without incentives and benefit/risk analyses (unless they are dumb as dirt). This is true in reality, and hopefully IS can make it so for AoC as well.
    and its still looking like there is TOO MUCH risk involved to even bother gathering at the moment... is that a legit concern from pve players or is that just... carebares?

    im not liking the non combatant losing more as that can be abused by a combatant taking you hp down low and not killing you then a pve mob finishes you off... how do they plan on combating that (and dont say fight back cos you lose there too...)
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2018
    Knxguy said:


    im not liking the non combatant losing more as that can be abused by a combatant taking you hp down low and not killing you then a pve mob finishes you off... how do they plan on combating that (and dont say fight back cos you lose there too...)
    Simple enough...there is a flagging timer. Once you have attacked someone if they die before the timer clicks down, you gain corruption. You are not the first, maybe the 20th, to point out that people could just knock someone down to say 10 percent then drag a pve mob onto them to get the kill. If they don't go with the timer, they could go with killing blow for loot permissions, but that has pretty much been ruled out by the guys that go "I will just use my high level friend to  beat them down, and then we will have a corruption alt take the penalty!" It will all be tested extensively, and loopholes closed.
  • Sparta??? 😳😳😳
    Jk.^^
    This game will have surely BOTH. PVE and PVP.
    Stabby calm down...
    it is ridiculous to put such a nonsense into the world at the moment. ...





  • Knxguy said:
    and its still looking like there is TOO MUCH risk involved to even bother gathering at the moment... is that a legit concern from pve players or is that just... carebares?

    im not liking the non combatant losing more as that can be abused by a combatant taking you hp down low and not killing you then a pve mob finishes you off... how do they plan on combating that (and dont say fight back cos you lose there too...)
    What you need to realize is that looting mules is far less attractive than looting caravans.
    Looting caravans provides greater rewards as one can loot much more from a caravan than one can from a mule. Furthermore, looting a caravan and murdering the defenders does not invoke the corruption mechanic.
    As such, I figure most gatherers will be left alone as the PvP players seek caravans for greater rewards without associated penalties.
    We will see how this plays out during testing and beyond. So far the system looks pretty good on papar, but we will see what adjustments need be made once players get their greedy mitts on the game.
  • What entices me for PvE is building villages and cities.
    That also entices me for PvP because what I like about PvP is defending villages and cities - especially objective-based PvP rather than direct character v character combat.
    Also, I'm very interested to explore Social and Religious and Racial progression.

    I don't really see a lot of RISK involved.
    There might be too much direct character v character combat for my liking - I only enjoy that for about one hour out of an eight-hour play session and when I'm no longer in the mood for it, it pisses me off when PLAYERS refuse to leave me alone.

    But, we have to play the game with Corruption mechanic implemented to know whether it's a sufficient deterrent for our individual playstyles.
  • Stabby said:
    [L]et's talk about Ashes. I think there are some common misconceptions about PVEers. We're not crafters. Some PVEers do like to craft, yes. But as a PVEer my primary focus is quests, leveling, dungeon grinding and especially raiding. I love a 4 day a week raid schedule like EQ2 had. That's what I want in a game. Not crafting. I want to play my way. My way does not include non-consensual combat. I do occasionally PVP, but only when I feel like it.
    Yeah, it does disturb me sometimes when Steven talks about PvEers as if Crafters are synonymous. His concept of RPers is also a bit disturbing.

    Stabby said:
    I think there's an equally troubling misconception that all PVPers are gankers. That's simply not true. Additionally, many PVPers love PVE as well.
    I don't think there is a misconception that all PvPers are gankers.
    Gankers are a minority - but I don't really care about how many there are.
    I care about how often I get trapped into direct character v character combat when I'm not in the mood for it. Other players should not be able to choose for me how I spend my play session.
    Many PvPers have no respect for the concept of non-consensual PvP combat.
    That's the primary issue with having them on the same servers as PvEers..

  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2018
    Dygz said:

    Gankers are a minority - but I don't really care about how many there are.
    I care about how often I get trapped into direct character v character combat when I'm not in the mood for it. Other players should not be able to choose for me how I spend my play session.

    Many PvPers have no respect for the concept of non-consensual PvP combat.
    That's the primary issue with having them on the same servers as PvEers..

    There's a book I read where people played a card game, they were gambling. You could lose two ways, one was by losing all your money and the second was by getting so drunk that yuo couldn't play anymore.

    When you lost a hand  you were randomly given an alcoholic drink where the potency was random.

    You didn't know what you'd get until you played but you knew that getting drunk was a possibility and its part of the game and there's no game without it.

    This is the same, by playing the game, consent is given to all the possible PvP. Its part of the game and without it the game doesn't exist. People need to accept this fact and if it's not something they can come to terms with then perhaps this game won't be a fit.
  • Many statistics for MMOs out there say majority of game clients prefer PvE. Also  people (some play with family members) like to relax with crafting, building, questing and don't Like or Want to interact with aggressive skill based PvP at all. I do both PvE & PvP, lately more PvP in ESO.

    Thing is, the game is going to lose a lot of client base if these 2 aspects PvE & PvP will be mixed. Best rule of business is to give client what they want without forcing unwanted elements onto one or another.
  • Out of the 1300 post in here it's been mentioned, the game is the game. It will be PvX and it will serve a niche community. Other games that cater to exclusive PvE already have most of the market share.

    There's no one as far as I know that has a game designed to be PvX and no P2W mechanic so it's a market with untapped potential.

    The game will not lose any player base as it stands, people who don't want the risk of getting PKed were never the target audience.

    Please refer to my previous post.
  • Draqonin said:
    Many statistics for MMOs out there say majority of game clients prefer PvE.
    There's certainly just as many statistics that just come to the opposite conclusion.
    I guess it's just a matter of you're preferred play style and argumentation which one you refer to :smiley:

    In the end the game will be PvX no matter what, but that's probably been said for the last 43 pages.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2018
    Again i think the pvp-ers have their place. For instance killing bots and other pvp-ers where they start to cost the company money(in canceled subs) is when they get bored or tried of being killed by other pvpers and go after anyone they know they can beat. Now AOC has a system to deal with that ( not nearly harsh enough imo) and it will probably the victim of any player created "workarounds". So i'm waiting to see how this plays out. We get a system that effectively stops griefing i'm in otherwise just call this Archeage 2 . You will have pvpers with 10 accounts pushing resources in to 1 super toon who is out killing everything. Then a group of those players will combine to "work around" government system and you will have AA's super guilds controlling the server with in 6 months. (Side note: Another form of being "victim to the pvpers are the hacks, exploits and macros that they will develop to gain an edge over everyone else. This has happened in EVERY game released to date). So while im not a fan of a pve server i think pve zones or conditional no-pvp attack zones could be added to specific servers for those of us who just want to get away from the toxic pvp crowd.
  • So all that aside the question you have to ask is. "Do PVP-ers lose their value in a game where you cannot pay to win" AA,Neverwinter,STO etc etc they generally take pvpers to the cleaners (financially) to allow them to have the gear they need to compete or have a competitive advantage. But if that is not possible then pvper is only worth to the company thier subscription price which puts them on a level playing field. 
    That should make things interesting enough to continue to follow this game.
  • The tears in this thread are utterly glorious. Its people like this I can't wait to camp. If you want to just kill mobs go play monster hunter or farm simulator 2018.
  • @RealDickMove Some of us will also enjoy collecting your bounty.
  • Greygoose said:
    @RealDickMove Some of us will also enjoy collecting your bounty.
    And I am completely ok with that. Game mechanics are fine with me!  B)
  • Dont you have to look over your shoulder for pve mobs too.
    Besides, therell barely be much owpvp with such harsh system against those who are against it.
    The only reason would be extremely loaded mule and you could only blame yourself for taking the risk and not banking mmore often.
    I think ppl unwilling to fight will be most likely left alone.

    This is anyhow something that bothers me.
    People here are really focused on dicks who play for PvP that they forget the dicks who play for PvE.
    There are dicks on both sides and they always find a way to waste ur time.

    PvE dicks start grinding over you, stealing ur crops or aggroing mobs to you to interupt your gathering, all cutting your efficiency by bunch.
    PvP dicks keep killing you without reason and reduce your efficiency by a bunch.

    With owpvp you can kill the PvE dicks only if they flag which most likely wont happen so the system doesnt counter them. It penalizes you for killing someone disrespecting you.
    If PvPrs are dicks they get actively penalized.
    Yet I see the PvE people here being the ones crying about the system.

    If youre the victim with this games systems its not because youre forced but because you choose to be. You have to look from the perspective of both sides for proper discussion.


    The only way for dicks to learn the border between good and bad is by enforcement of rules and have the team decide it for them.




  • I really don't have time to read the whole thread, did Devs say anything about this?

    Will there be PVE servers for people who don't care for pvp? If not can we ask for a refund? I am seriously considering asking for refund if everyone's forced to be in pvp environment.
  • Arasys said:
    I really don't have time to read the whole thread, did Devs say anything about this?

    Will there be PVE servers for people who don't care for pvp? If not can we ask for a refund? I am seriously considering asking for refund if everyone's forced to be in pvp environment.
    You can ask, if it has been more than 30 days you won't get any love. There won't be separate servers, this has been on the website for months. All you would have had to do is look at the about tab for the game or the FAQ. If you decided to spend your money without doing the requisite research on a topic that is such a burning issue for you, then I predict real life is going to have issues for you too.
  • You are right, didn't have much chance to look at the website like some people who have nothing but spare time to assume random stuff on game forums, but thanks for your advice.

    Guess I will ask for refund then.
  • Arasys said:
    You are right, didn't have much chance to look at the website like some people who have nothing but spare time to assume random stuff on game forums, but thanks for your advice.

    Guess I will ask for refund then.
    Well...since you did not have spare time to even look over the basic FAQs of the game it would be a good idea not to try and play an MMO. I can not imagine how you would have time to play. 

    Good luck on your refund because it really does not sound like you are a good fit here. 
  • As the leader of a mercenary guild, there are some PvP elements to what we'll end up doing, but also PvE… I think there needs to be a cooldown switch between the 2 modes(to prevent people jumping into safe and non safe modes - that needs to be really significant length of time too, like 10 mins between each switch min) but also perhaps 'danger areas' as warnings for those keen to stay away from a conflict - although no guarantees can be made for anywhere.

    Only PvE servers cannot work as node progression cannot work without an entirely different structure to its mechanics....

    You have to consider node progression, what would a 'PvE only server' do when the limit of cities/metropolis is met? You can't combat between each node... To have only PvE is almost to create an entirely different set of game mechanics that takes away a lot of what they are driving to build - a player dominated game where every player choice and fight and victory against player and npc alike makes a difference.

    With the griefer type system in place as well, it should syphon those out there with the sole goal of just causing destruction to an experience.

  • Too much salt from all sides!

    I'm not really on board completely due to one aspect of the random PVP. That is that victims of unwanted PVP who choose NOT to flag up get penalized more than if they do. If they do decide to fight (which in many cases they will lose anyway) the unwanted attacker suffers nothing or almost nothing.

    Either way, players that don't care for random PVP get screwed in some way.

    Only thing I can see advantageous to this setup is that bots suffer a bit more than normal. So the onus is on the players to solve the bot problem, or so it seems.

    Despite that I am intrigued by the overall game and will try it. I won't toss any $$$ at the game until all this is tested and solid. Then I will try it. Burned too many times to do otherwise. Not, in any way, knocking how anyone chooses to use their cash, though. Plz don't assume otherwise!  :)

  • @RealDickMove hit me up if you need protection while removing your corruption... It'll come with a fee of course. 
  • The tears in this thread are utterly glorious. Its people like this I can't wait to camp. If you want to just kill mobs go play monster hunter or farm simulator 2018.
    With the corruption system as it is, I highly doubt this is the right game for you.
    The devs have made it clear that they do not want AoC to become a 'gank-box', and will likely be adjusting the system to allow the occasional murder while harshly penalizing serial murderers.
  • Wait, wait, wait.. Everybody just stop! Farm Simulator 2018 is out?!
  • lol this forum can be so self righteous  
  • lol this forum can be so self righteous  
    its a bit of both ^^
  • Where has it been stated that Mules can be attacked?  I'm seeing that referenced in a few posts.  I've only seen references to people dropping harvests, nothing about mules.
  • T-Elf said:
    Where has it been stated that Mules can be attacked?  I'm seeing that referenced in a few posts.  I've only seen references to people dropping harvests, nothing about mules.

    We know mounts can be killed (not permanently) and assume mules can as well but unsure what happens to the resources they are carrying (assuming we put resources on it).

    We assume that because we drop a portion of our resources when we die that mules would have some similar mechanic but also not sure what the penalty for killing the mule would be. At the same time some of us were worried that because there is a penalty for attacking a mule but not a caravan that mules would be used to circumvent the caravan system.

    It's just something they haven't elaborated on and some of us can see this being handled in different ways.
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