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Gear loss as a red player

I read that there might be a gear drop punishment for being a red player/pk'er/whatever you Wanna Call it and I would like to Know what they would do to make sure that red players dont just loose their gear and either have to start over from scratch or quit the game? Since we dont have Much information About how gearing Will work, i would like to Know what the Devs are thinking :) and yes i Will roam around as a red player if possible :)

Also i would Much rather See a lvl downgrade or debuff after a red death ^^ ofc these kinda systems might not be as effective IF there is a lvl cap :)
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Comments

  • Start over from skretch that would be the dumbest thing for a pvp game if u gank once or twice to much lol.


    Why u use so many capital letters in your text. Cinda annoying to read.
  • FleeFiX What Are YoU TalKing AbOuT? CaPiTal LetTeRs?
  • Um. Players shouldn't be red.
    Characters can become red.
    Character don't lose their levels, so should be no reason to have to start a main character over simply due to corruption.
    If you spend so much time being red that you gain a reputation that causes you to be Kill On Sight in the eyes of the other players on your server, you might want to start a new character.

    If you really want to spend a lot of time playing red characters without negatively impacting your main character, just create alts that you don't mind getting corrupted. Play them like zombies...zombies don't need gear.
  • [quote quote=17736]Um. Players shouldn’t be red.
    If you really want to spend a lot of time playing red characters without negatively impacting your main character, just create alts that you don’t mind getting corrupted. Play them like zombies…zombies don’t need gear.
    [/quote]

    I would think to be competitive they would? xD
  • Zombies have too much corrupted brain matter to think about being competitive.
  • [quote quote=17622]Start over from skretch that would be the dumbest thing for a pvp game if u gank once or twice to much lol.

    Why u use so many capital letters in your text. Cinda annoying to read.

    [/quote]

    Danish phone ^^ sorry

    [quote quote=17736]Um. Players shouldn’t be red.
    Characters can become red.
    Character don’t lose their levels, so should be no reason to have to start a main character over simply due to corruption.
    If you spend so much time being red that you gain a reputation that causes you to be Kill On Sight in the eyes of the other players on your server, you might want to start a new character.

    If you really want to spend a lot of time playing red characters without negatively impacting your main character, just create alts that you don’t mind getting corrupted. Play them like zombies…zombies don’t need gear.

    [/quote]

    Well the idea of being a red player is that your main charector is Know for being a player killer :) and if pk is punished so harshly as dropping gear you might have spent days/weeks/months to get, it is stupid :) So either they have to make gear easy to get or remove that kinda of punishment. Please do note i have no problem getting punished by killing a player but if that punishment is so harsh that you completly remove the possibility of pk'ers why have a flag system at all? And for the caravans pvp just flag the people defending/attacking when they pick the option :)
  • Its simple don't use anything you don't mind losing when you are red. I also heard you lose some corruption on death. If you go red give your good gear to a friend or put it in your freehold house then let the bounty hunters kill you until you are blue again after that you are free to resume your Pking.
  • [quote quote=17752]Its simple don’t use anything you don’t mind losing when you are red. I also heard you lose some corruption on death. If you go red give your good gear to a friend or put it in your freehold house then let the bounty hunters kill you until you are blue again after that you are free to resume your Pking.

    [/quote]
    And how is that any fun? Unless this game doesn't care about gear at all you need your best gear to tackle bounty hunters ^^
  • alt zombies don't need to win battles against bounty hunters
  • [quote quote=17748]
    Well the idea of being a red player is that your main charector is Know for being a player killer [/quote]
    I don't think so.
    It's the character that gains the corruption; not the account.
    And Steven said that alts can be spies in rival guilds, which means that players won't be able to track alts by account name.
  • [quote quote=17622]skretch that would be the dumbest thing for a pvp game if u gank once or twice to much lol.

    Why u use so many capital letters in your text. Cinda[/quote]

    Correct version of skretch is scratch, and correct version of Cinda is kinda. I would be willing to bet that English is a second language for the OP.
  • [quote quote=17789]And how is that any fun? Unless this game doesn’t care about gear at all you need your best gear to tackle bounty hunters ^^[/quote]

    How is being ganked repeatedly by PK arsehats supposed to be fun? Oh, wait ... it's fun for <em>you</em>, and if I'm not having fun being PKd by you and others, that's my problem, right?

    The system they're creating is designed <em>specifically</em> to make PK and "dishonorable" kills costly to those who think that's the height of fun gaming. If you don't like it? Don't do it. If you do it, accept the price you'll pay for being what the devs consider dishonorable.
  • [quote quote=17815]<blockquote>

    The system they’re creating is designed <em>specifically</em> to make PK and “dishonorable” kills costly to those who think that’s the height of fun gaming. If you don’t like it? Don’t do it. If you do it, accept the price you’ll pay for being what the devs consider dishonorable.

    [/quote]

    Really the only sad part of the system is that more items don't drop. i mean pk should at the very least lose is his main and secondary weapons.
  • [quote quote=17815]<blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/gear-loss-as-a-red-player/#post-17789" rel="nofollow">Quisari wrote:</a></div>
    And how is that any fun? Unless this game doesn’t care about gear at all you need your best gear to tackle bounty hunters ^^
    </blockquote>
    How is being ganked repeatedly by PK arsehats supposed to be fun? Oh, wait … it’s fun for <em>you</em>, and if I’m not having fun being PKd by you and others, that’s my problem, right?

    The system they’re creating is designed <em>specifically</em> to make PK and “dishonorable” kills costly to those who think that’s the height of fun gaming. If you don’t like it? Don’t do it. If you do it, accept the price you’ll pay for being what the devs consider dishonorable.

    [/quote]
    Yea i'm danish :p and no One is Saying i Will kill the same guy multiple times/spawn camp... that is for kids... you Really need to piss me off Before i Even want to Think About it. But like in Black desert online i Will and do kill people randomly in grind spots... I dont pk gathers, crafted, horse trainers and all of those life skillers. Ofc if you are fx mining and Some idiot just comes Running by and kills you the next hour without "taking" the spot then it's bad.
  • [quote quote=17795]<blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/gear-loss-as-a-red-player/#post-17748" rel="nofollow">Quisari wrote:</a></div>
    Well the idea of being a red player is that your main charector is Know for being a player killer
    </blockquote>
    I don’t think so.
    It’s the character that gains the corruption; not the account.
    And Steven said that alts can be spies in rival guilds, which means that players won’t be able to track alts by account name.

    [/quote]
    Sorry you must not have understood the meaning of my way of saying "red player". Pretty Much just means that the Player Will be red/pk on any charector. The most fun thing i can experience is people Running from me, just by seeing my name :) so I don't want an alt... I want my main charector i Play 90% of the time on, to be Known as a killer ^^
  • If I understand what you mean...
    The death penalties for red characters are intended to be so harsh that you almost never kill other players while flagged red - especially not kill non-combatants.
  • [quote quote=17825]Yea i’m danish :p[/quote]

    Thought you might be from out Europe way. Many Americans and westerners don't realize it, but at one time, the English language in our area(s) was written as you write it -- capital letters were use for emphasis; or sometimes to begin a new line. It is, from our viewpoint, an archaic way of writing ... but still perfectly readable.

    On the rest of your topic? I can't say you'd be one of my favorite people, tbh ... I don't think your idea of fun should take away from my experience of fun, nor vice verse. There's plenty to do without PK, that will still feed your PVP needs.
  • "My threshold for when it's acceptable to attack non-combatants is OK. Yours is not."
    Ain't it always so?
  • Corruption is intended to be punishing just enough so that pk would still occur if someone has a lot of resources. We'll have to wait to see how they intend balancing between punishing slaughter and rewarding flagging over resources.
  • <blockquote>
    And how is that any fun? Unless this game doesn’t care about gear at all you need your best gear to tackle bounty hunters ^^

    </blockquote>



    I always find this type of discussion amusing. Are you the only one allowed to have fun on your terms? I've seen discussions like this in other forums, players complaining about the penalty for being a jerk (pker). You should be more concerned about posting solid suggestions about how a fair opt-in pvp system should be implemented where like minded pvpers can compete without penalty for their actions. But if all you're concerned about is being able to open-world pk and grief other players without penalty, thereby ruining the fun they're looking to have in other ways, then you should be willing to accept the consequences of ruining their time if you get caught being a jerk.

    Losing hard earned gear sucks...but I've played my share of hardcore games, and the truth is you go into it knowing that the penalty for failure is loss. I've played games that are TOTAL LOSS. Hey, you died, start over from scratch. I'm sure you know the kind of games I'm talking about. It doesn't sound like AoC is going to have any strict penalty like that. I'll admit, I have my jerk moments, too! How many times did I swoop in off my flying mount with a hunter and kill a mage while fishing. Total dick move. There were no penalties for failure, but I'd have thought twice about it if there was a risk of lost epic gear if a stealthed rogue was going to wreck me.

    If AoC has similarities to early EverQuest with competitive non-instanced dungeons where we face hours fighting our way through hard mobs with dangerous patrols and fleeing/fearing enemies throwing your group into chaos by pulling extra mobs/groups, just to camp an annoyingly rare spawn mob that has a great item (like Lower Guk and FBSS), and then some other team catches up to you, I'd hope both teams would be contemplating the consequences of ruining the others progress and time by a serious and immediate risk of gear loss (the loss going to the group who strikes first). It has been a long time since I've played an MMO with a serious enough death penalty to make decisions worth actually considering before acting. First was EverQuest, but even then it was a corpse run or cleric res and you only lost some hours of play. I played a persistent world Neverwinter Nights server where a single death was 2-4 weeks worth of loss, and that was the better outcome. Being that it was a D&D game, it required very expensive components to be resurrected, and worse...regardless of how you died, someone who found your corpse could pick through all your bags and take what they wanted. They didn't have to choose to help you. It made cultivating friendships very important.

    Sorry if TLDR, summary:
    Pvp can be great fun, but generally if all parties are consenting. If you want to open world PK there should be stiff penalties for failure.

    Edited for quote formatting...
  • When it comes to the idea that the fun of PVP types cannot be impacted by PVE types i disagree with this statement as it is a very small picture your are looking at, say for example ive got a goal of seeing the node i live in succeed and in order for my node to succeed i must attempt to undermine neighboring nodes while protecting the node i have sided with.

    I do not understand why people should feel safe in a game likes this if i find a guy mining in a mine in the enemy node without anyone protecting said mine from me or anyone like me not to be able to kill that miner or at least scare him off then that makes their node stronger and thus takes away from my goal of seeing my home node succeeding.

    When on the other side of the statement PVP types would also want to keep a eye on recource sites like mines, fishing spots and so on as they would want to stop people from undermining there node, surely a game that wants the players of one node to form a community surely such a interaction between the PVE players and PVP players would be welcome.
  • Why can't both nodes succeed without you ganking people in "enemy" territory?
    Why not destroy the mine instead of killing the character?
  • Destroying the mine never occurred to me if thats a option id be more than happy to, also the senerio is 2 nodes that are not in a friendly state wouldnt even have to be neibours just 2 nodes with a vested interest in seeing the other fail, a world without wars would make a rather dull game to me at least.
  • I don't disagree with your general sentiment that a world without war would be rather dull. The problem I have is that I'm not always in the mood to pvp, and some people are never in the mood to pvp. And no matter what civilization you look at you'll have real examples of exactly the disagreement we're having.

    Starving person wants the bread of baker man, so starving person steals the bread if he can. If not he loses a hand and goes hungry. Spying man needs to undermine opposing government, so spying man attempts to commit espionage if he can. If not he loses his life, all resources and any intel on him. (or gets turned into a double agent)
    Homicidal psychopath needs to kill people to get his rocks off, so attempts to secretly dismember as many as he can. If he gets caught he's probably going to waste an immense amount of public funding in a trial and imprisonment up until execution.

    Action - Consequence.

    I don't think we can expect the devs to create situational coding to account for all of the interesting things we'd like to see in the world. I never said there shouldn't be the option to be a total dickhead and gank people. I just believe that if you choose to go on a rampage which may help your node, and you get wrecked in the process then our node can be helped by your failure when we take your gear.
  • Are we going to need to introduce some people to Hello Kitty Online Island Adventure?
  • Oh i agree there should be loss i actually agree with that red players should probably loose more, i was simply disagreeing with the idea that PVE type players having fun does not effect PVP players for the most part its correct as not many PVP players are looking from such a large picture that i look from, in the grand scheme of large scale combat between 2 factions/nodes/guilds everything has a effect that guy mining at getting iron brings Iron to forge it gets formed into a Ingot which could becomes a sword that just might be the sword that kills me or someone of the Node, faction or guild iam fighting with.
  • While I'm not one to try to judge anyone's idea of what they think is fun, I do wonder, why limit yourself to making individual's scatter at your passing, when one could do so mush more? Why concern yourself with small scale skirmishes. Granted, if you see someone strutting about, with an aura of power about them, then maybe, if they're amenable.

    But, chasing down well guarded caravans, defeating any guards, or hired mercs, taking the loot...that's exciting! Building a name as the scourge of all traders! Having guilds, and merchants, list you as public enemy number one (in a good way. not a as a red-named PK'er). Having those same merchants seek you out, to perhaps bribe you with gold and items, to let their cargo pass unharmed. Or, set you on a rivals caravan....the possibilities abound, my friend!

    Just a thought.
  • They stated in the last Q&A that they're going to try and make the game floor and ceiling from gear not that far apart. Balancing gear, class, and skill so even if you don't have the best gear you can still kill someone who has best gear.
  • [quote quote=18104]They stated in the last Q&A that they’re going to try and make the game floor and ceiling from gear not that far apart. Balancing gear, class, and skill so even if you don’t have the best gear you can still kill someone who has best gear.

    [/quote]

    Well, as a red-named PK'er, gear drops wouldn't be the only concern. Combat effectiveness also comes into play, the more corrupt one becomes.

    So, if a corrupts player were to "hide" gear, in fear of losing it, they would still have to contend with the additional loss of combat effectiveness to boot, further gimping them in future fights, as long as they stay corrupted. Further corruption just intensifies the effect, as I understand it. I'm sure others know more.
  • Here are the scenarios that historically piss me off playing on PvP servers:

    1: I'm a hippy, pacifist carebear. I avoided UO because all my co-workers talked about was ganking each other in that game. When the told me about EQ, they said I should play on the race-war PvP server with them and then listed all the typical reasons PvPers give about why it's going to be OK for me to play on a PvP server even though I like to avoid combat altogether, where possible (even in PnP D&D). They will protect me and and revenge me, blah, blah, blah. And I agreed so that I could play with my friends.

    2: But it ended up that we were on two different shifts and I spent most of my time soloing. Which is fine since I'm an explorer. The type of PvP combat I enjoy is defending towns from enemy players. But when I'm tired of doing that, I want to be done and finish up the remaining goals I set for that play session. Like topping off that last half-bubble of xp and mining my quota of ore.

    3: So, I go to a PvE safe spot in my home zone to mine some ore. Some enemy race stumbles upon me and sees that the PvP flag timer has not worn off and decides I'm fair game to attack because I'm flagged for PvP. I tell him to please leave me be... I just want to grab my quota of ore and the last bit of xp before I log for the night. He tells me he's roleplaying the race war and I shouldn't be flagged for PvP if I don't want to PvP. I flee, but he's high enough level to chase me down and kill me. And also loot an item that I spent an hour obtaining earlier in the day. So, now I have xp debt...which means it's going to take me longer to level. And, it's going to take at least another hour for me to re-acquire that drop that was looted from me.
    So, it's not just "Oh, I lost a battle", but, now I have to reinvest a couple hours of my real life time because some asshat player wanted 5 minutes of fun.
    But if all he wanted was to have a PvP battle, I'd be up for that... after finishing those objectives for my play session. Bank that item I worked all day to get, grab the rest of my ore and ding to the next level. Let's meet back here in 30 minutes and you can kill me a couple of times if you want and then I can be done for the night. That's the fair thing to do player to player. We can still roleplay being heated enemies character to character once I reach my play session goals.

    3: And that's actually the way it repeats. A new game comes out. I like PvP sometimes, so I make a character on a limited PvP server. PvP friends tell me how it's going to be OK 'cause they will protect me (not that I want them to protect me - I shouldn't need protection because players should have good sportsmanship instead of being asshats.) I end up getting ganked one to many times and leave for a PvE-only server.

    4: I spent most of the last 10 years thinking I was a PvP hater, but having these same kinds of discussions on the EQNext forums - where the PvPers made the same arguments against splitting the playerbase with a PvE-only server and how the PvPers will PvP for those players who don't like PvP combat ( as if that's supposed to be helpful when really it's just offering more PvP combat as the solution to wanting no association with PvP combat)...
    I remembered that I'm actually a PvP sometimes person who used to start on PvP optional servers.
    Sure, I would love to play in the same space as my PvP friends... but that never really works the way PvPers promise it will.

    5: TL:DR The idyllic dream of the PvP conflict concept motivating PvP combat sounds glorious. I can envision scenarios where I will gleefully kill some players if they become obstacles to my needs.
    If I have to kill some dryads and siphon their Nature magic and transmute that into Shadow magic in order to max my Stealth stealth skills... I'm gonna go kill some Dryads. And if some players try to protect the dryads from me, well... those players gonna have ta die.
    I'm a hippy, peacenik, carebear... but sometimes you gotta do what ya gotta do.

    In AoC, we have object and building destruction. So we should be able to blow up/destroy stuff like mines.
    If you consider the mine I'm at to be an enemy mine and you want to disrupt what's happening there but you come across me mining... to me, the player, we have several options.
    For the most part, I just want to finish my play session goals. I'd be asking you, the player you, to let me finish grabbing the last of my ore. If you want to blow up the mine after that, I might even help you blow up the mine. And then I'd probably come back tomorrow and try to rebuild the mine just as I would have had I not been there when you arrived.
    Maybe I, as the player, want to help escalate the conflict between the nodes so we as players schedule times where we blow up other places in my region.
    Our characters don't have to kill each other in order to churn the PvP conflict, we can cooperate to do that rather than compete. Even if you need to kill my character in order to complete some objective... I might be up for that but does it have to be that night or could it be tomorrow?

    Is it really imperative that my night has to be ruined in order for you to have fun? That 2+ hours are stolen from me without my consent? Just human to human... I don't get that.
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