Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
But, chasing down well guarded caravans, defeating any guards, or hired mercs, taking the loot…that’s exciting! Building a name as the scourge of all traders! Having guilds, and merchants, list you as public enemy number one (in a good way. not a as a red-named PK’er). Having those same merchants seek you out, to perhaps bribe you with gold and items, to let their cargo pass unharmed. Or, set you on a rivals caravan….the possibilities abound, my friend!
Just a thought.
[/quote]
Personally i wouldnt limit myself to one method of weaking a node, if a missed shipment from a trader is more harming i would consider the likely hood of success of taking out said trader and if i figured good odds of success then i would take on the trade caravan after all a failed attack on a trade caravan is a boost to the enemy so its better to avoid such a skirmish if it is unfavorable.
It would always depend on the situation depending on the situation such as how many people i have with me, how were equiped, what classes we have, what we can see of the enemies defenses for all i know alot of mines may prove to be unfavorable engagements.
Its a risk vrs reward thing do we risk failing and thus making the enemy stronger or do we avoid the combat and take a more likely victory.
Well, as a red-named PK’er, gear drops wouldn’t be the only concern. Combat effectiveness also comes into play, the more corrupt one becomes.
So, if a corrupts player were to “hide” gear, in fear of losing it, they would still have to contend with the additional loss of combat effectiveness to boot, further gimping them in future fights, as long as they stay corrupted. Further corruption just intensifies the effect, as I understand it. I’m sure others know more.
[/quote]
That's right. The intention is that a red player is increasingly penalized the more they continue to kill players while corrupted - in order to make us feel like the punishment is no longer worth PKing. The devs are trying to make it so that people who like to PK won't do so very often. The devs want to make that rare, rather than common.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/gear-loss-as-a-red-player/page/2/#post-18103" rel="nofollow">freespiryt wrote:</a></div>
While I’m not one to try to judge anyone’s idea of what they think is fun, I do wonder, why limit yourself to making individual’s scatter at your passing, when one could do so mush more? Why concern yourself with small scale skirmishes. Granted, if you see someone strutting about, with an aura of power about them, then maybe, if they’re amenable.
But, chasing down well guarded caravans, defeating any guards, or hired mercs, taking the loot…that’s exciting! Building a name as the scourge of all traders! Having guilds, and merchants, list you as public enemy number one (in a good way. not a as a red-named PK’er). Having those same merchants seek you out, to perhaps bribe you with gold and items, to let their cargo pass unharmed. Or, set you on a rivals caravan….the possibilities abound, my friend!
Just a thought.
</blockquote>
Personally i wouldnt limit myself to one method of weaking a node, if a missed shipment from a trader is more harming i would consider the likely hood of success of taking out said trader and if i figured good odds of success then i would take on the trade caravan after all a failed attack on a trade caravan is a boost to the enemy so its better to avoid such a skirmish if it is unfavorable.
It would always depend on the situation depending on the situation such as how many people i have with me, how were equiped, what classes we have, what we can see of the enemies defenses for all i know alot of mines may prove to be unfavorable engagements.
Its a risk vrs reward thing do we risk failing and thus making the enemy stronger or do we avoid the combat and take a more likely victory.
[/quote]
Perfect example of how the ingame world will be :) so excited. Also the fact that you may lose gear added even more excitement with some fear ( OK a lot of fear) but nevertheless that is why you will have to always have 2 back up sets :)
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/gear-loss-as-a-red-player/page/2/#post-18103" rel="nofollow">freespiryt wrote:</a></div>
While I’m not one to try to judge anyone’s idea of what they think is fun, I do wonder, why limit yourself to making individual’s scatter at your passing, when one could do so mush more? Why concern yourself with small scale skirmishes. Granted, if you see someone strutting about, with an aura of power about them, then maybe, if they’re amenable.
But, chasing down well guarded caravans, defeating any guards, or hired mercs, taking the loot…that’s exciting! Building a name as the scourge of all traders! Having guilds, and merchants, list you as public enemy number one (in a good way. not a as a red-named PK’er). Having those same merchants seek you out, to perhaps bribe you with gold and items, to let their cargo pass unharmed. Or, set you on a rivals caravan….the possibilities abound, my friend!
Just a thought.
</blockquote>
Personally i wouldnt limit myself to one method of weaking a node, if a missed shipment from a trader is more harming i would consider the likely hood of success of taking out said trader and if i figured good odds of success then i would take on the trade caravan after all a failed attack on a trade caravan is a boost to the enemy so its better to avoid such a skirmish if it is unfavorable.
It would always depend on the situation depending on the situation such as how many people i have with me, how were equiped, what classes we have, what we can see of the enemies defenses for all i know alot of mines may prove to be unfavorable engagements.
Its a risk vrs reward thing do we risk failing and thus making the enemy stronger or do we avoid the combat and take a more likely victory.
[/quote]
lol I was giving one, small, admittedly incomplete example of how pv could be enjoyed outside of just focusing on PK'ing. Given the system that Intrepid says they intend to implement, there are many permutations of PvP to be had, in any number of ways.
And, while attacking, and failing, at an attack on a caravan would definitely alert those with a vested interest in the safe delivery of said goods, I don't think there would be any direct causality between your defeat, an them increasing in strength. Unless you mean the enemy gaining xp, upon your and your comrades death(s).
Having said that, is there an xp gain from a succesful PvP fight, outside of the success of the delivery, or raid, depending on who wins?
1: I’m a hippy, pacifist carebear. I avoided UO because all my co-workers talked about was ganking each other in that game. When the told me about EQ, they said I should play on the race-war PvP server with them and then listed all the typical reasons PvPers give about why it’s going to be OK for me to play on a PvP server even though I like to avoid combat altogether, where possible (even in PnP D&D). They will protect me and and revenge me, blah, blah, blah. And I agreed so that I could play with my friends.
2: But it ended up that we were on two different shifts and I spent most of my time soloing. Which is fine since I’m an explorer. The type of PvP combat I enjoy is defending towns from enemy players. But when I’m tired of doing that, I want to be done and finish up the remaining goals I set for that play session. Like topping off that last half-bubble of xp and mining my quota of ore.
3: So, I go to a PvE safe spot in my home zone to mine some ore. Some enemy race stumbles upon me and sees that the PvP flag timer has not worn off and decides I’m fair game to attack because I’m flagged for PvP. I tell him to please leave me be… I just want to grab my quota of ore and the last bit of xp before I log for the night. He tells me he’s roleplaying the race war and I shouldn’t be flagged for PvP if I don’t want to PvP. I flee, but he’s high enough level to chase me down and kill me. And also loot an item that I spent an hour obtaining earlier in the day. So, now I have xp debt…which means it’s going to take me longer to level. And, it’s going to take at least another hour for me to re-acquire that drop that was looted from me.
So, it’s not just “Oh, I lost a battle”, but, now I have to reinvest a couple hours of my real life time because some asshat player wanted 5 minutes of fun.
But if all he wanted was to have a PvP battle, I’d be up for that… after finishing those objectives for my play session. Bank that item I worked all day to get, grab the rest of my ore and ding to the next level. Let’s meet back here in 30 minutes and you can kill me a couple of times if you want and then I can be done for the night. That’s the fair thing to do player to player. We can still roleplay being heated enemies character to character once I reach my play session goals.
3: And that’s actually the way it repeats. A new game comes out. I like PvP sometimes, so I make a character on a limited PvP server. PvP friends tell me how it’s going to be OK ’cause they will protect me (not that I want them to protect me – I shouldn’t need protection because players should have good sportsmanship instead of being asshats.) I end up getting ganked one to many times and leave for a PvE-only server.
4: I spent most of the last 10 years thinking I was a PvP hater, but having these same kinds of discussions on the EQNext forums – where the PvPers made the same arguments against splitting the playerbase with a PvE-only server and how the PvPers will PvP for those players who don’t like PvP combat ( as if that’s supposed to be helpful when really it’s just offering more PvP combat as the solution to wanting no association with PvP combat)…
I remembered that I’m actually a PvP sometimes person who used to start on PvP optional servers.
Sure, I would love to play in the same space as my PvP friends… but that never really works the way PvPers promise it will.
5: TL:DR The idyllic dream of the PvP conflict concept motivating PvP combat sounds glorious. I can envision scenarios where I will gleefully kill some players if they become obstacles to my needs.
If I have to kill some dryads and siphon their Nature magic and transmute that into Shadow magic in order to max my Stealth stealth skills… I’m gonna go kill some Dryads. And if some players try to protect the dryads from me, well… those players gonna have ta die.
I’m a hippy, peacenik, carebear… but sometimes you gotta do what ya gotta do.
In AoC, we have object and building destruction. So we should be able to blow up/destroy stuff like mines.
If you consider the mine I’m at to be an enemy mine and you want to disrupt what’s happening there but you come across me mining… to me, the player, we have several options.
For the most part, I just want to finish my play session goals. I’d be asking you, the player you, to let me finish grabbing the last of my ore. If you want to blow up the mine after that, I might even help you blow up the mine. And then I’d probably come back tomorrow and try to rebuild the mine just as I would have had I not been there when you arrived.
Maybe I, as the player, want to help escalate the conflict between the nodes so we as players schedule times where we blow up other places in my region.
Our characters don’t have to kill each other in order to churn the PvP conflict, we can cooperate to do that rather than compete. Even if you need to kill my character in order to complete some objective… I might be up for that but does it have to be that night or could it be tomorrow?
Is it really imperative that my night has to be ruined in order for you to have fun? That 2+ hours are stolen from me without my consent? Just human to human… I don’t get that.
[/quote]
Iam afraid we come from very different games as to me the idea of carring something that represents 2+ hours of game time is kinda risky and i would be aware of the risk and take precautions to avoid running into a situation where i would loose it, consent is another thing that just does not uccur to me in terms of PVP the MMO i played for the longest was a game called Eve Online which was not perfect but it had a Safe area(well safe in the sence that if someone opens fire on you they will die that does not nesserily mean youll live however) the safe area was limited in terms of what resources you could get and the likes so people were heavily incetiviesed to go into not safe areas both PVP and PVE players are incentivised to go into this area where the reward is higher and the risk is higher due to the ever existing treat of PVP and the only safety you would find in such areas was by not being found or player enforced safety.
While in eve you were never truely safe as you could still be killed by a very determined foe who is willing to loose alot to make sure you loose what ever your using but this was rare, eve didnt really have a opt out for PVP the treat of PVP came mostly from where you were.
I would agree for AOE to have safe areas specifically where the new player spawn in and the surrounding area where they can learn the game in safety, however once we start setting up Nodes and the likes i really hope anything outside the city walls is full PVP where any safety is enforced by the players who live in and run the node.
As for if i would have to destroy your progress to effect the node that entirly depends on the mechanics of the game iam used to Eve online where the mechanics were purely a creation destruction economy so everything that was built could be destroyed so for me to effect something the progress of that person had to be destroyed, say we take the your mining example it is likely the stuff you are mining that is making your node progress so in order for me to acomplish my goal i would either have to kill you, conficate your Iron or what ever your mining, or i guess if your particually convincing person i guess i could let you go with the Iron under the premise of not coming back as that would also result in less but not as less as removing the Iron from you, iam afraid in a situation like this its not personal its a utilitian act where my goal is X it just so happens that if i do that it might ruin someones day.
The reward for winning a PvP battle is the loot. IIRC.
I would imagine, though, that there is node xp for the winners in a caravan/siege attack.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/gear-loss-as-a-red-player/page/3/#post-18113" rel="nofollow">Draugr_BearBlood wrote:</a></div>
<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/gear-loss-as-a-red-player/page/2/#post-18103" rel="nofollow">freespiryt wrote:</a></div>
While I’m not one to try to judge anyone’s idea of what they think is fun, I do wonder, why limit yourself to making individual’s scatter at your passing, when one could do so mush more? Why concern yourself with small scale skirmishes. Granted, if you see someone strutting about, with an aura of power about them, then maybe, if they’re amenable.
But, chasing down well guarded caravans, defeating any guards, or hired mercs, taking the loot…that’s exciting! Building a name as the scourge of all traders! Having guilds, and merchants, list you as public enemy number one (in a good way. not a as a red-named PK’er). Having those same merchants seek you out, to perhaps bribe you with gold and items, to let their cargo pass unharmed. Or, set you on a rivals caravan….the possibilities abound, my friend!
Just a thought.
</blockquote>
Personally i wouldnt limit myself to one method of weaking a node, if a missed shipment from a trader is more harming i would consider the likely hood of success of taking out said trader and if i figured good odds of success then i would take on the trade caravan after all a failed attack on a trade caravan is a boost to the enemy so its better to avoid such a skirmish if it is unfavorable.
It would always depend on the situation depending on the situation such as how many people i have with me, how were equiped, what classes we have, what we can see of the enemies defenses for all i know alot of mines may prove to be unfavorable engagements.
Its a risk vrs reward thing do we risk failing and thus making the enemy stronger or do we avoid the combat and take a more likely victory.
</blockquote>
Perfect example of how the ingame world will be <img alt="????" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/2.2.1/svg/1f642.svg" /> so excited. Also the fact that you may lose gear added even more excitement with some fear ( OK a lot of fear) but nevertheless that is why you will have to always have 2 back up sets <img alt="????" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/2.2.1/svg/1f642.svg" />
[/quote]
Indeed it is the potential for loss that makes death impactfull and thus makes the victories all the sweeter, honestly this game seems rather forgiving to me but i guess some loss is better than non, in Eve which is the game i came from you flew Space ships and if you died you lost the ship and everything it had equiped and everything in your hold in eve it was possible to loose far more than hours of progress it was possible to loose months
[/quote]
^^
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/gear-loss-as-a-red-player/page/3/#post-18113" rel="nofollow">Draugr_BearBlood wrote:</a></div>
<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/gear-loss-as-a-red-player/page/2/#post-18103" rel="nofollow">freespiryt wrote:</a></div>
While I’m not one to try to judge anyone’s idea of what they think is fun, I do wonder, why limit yourself to making individual’s scatter at your passing, when one could do so mush more? Why concern yourself with small scale skirmishes. Granted, if you see someone strutting about, with an aura of power about them, then maybe, if they’re amenable.
But, chasing down well guarded caravans, defeating any guards, or hired mercs, taking the loot…that’s exciting! Building a name as the scourge of all traders! Having guilds, and merchants, list you as public enemy number one (in a good way. not a as a red-named PK’er). Having those same merchants seek you out, to perhaps bribe you with gold and items, to let their cargo pass unharmed. Or, set you on a rivals caravan….the possibilities abound, my friend!
Just a thought.
</blockquote>
Personally i wouldnt limit myself to one method of weaking a node, if a missed shipment from a trader is more harming i would consider the likely hood of success of taking out said trader and if i figured good odds of success then i would take on the trade caravan after all a failed attack on a trade caravan is a boost to the enemy so its better to avoid such a skirmish if it is unfavorable.
It would always depend on the situation depending on the situation such as how many people i have with me, how were equiped, what classes we have, what we can see of the enemies defenses for all i know alot of mines may prove to be unfavorable engagements.
Its a risk vrs reward thing do we risk failing and thus making the enemy stronger or do we avoid the combat and take a more likely victory.
</blockquote>
lol I was giving one, small, admittedly incomplete example of how pv could be enjoyed outside of just focusing on PK’ing. Given the system that Intrepid says they intend to implement, there are many permutations of PvP to be had, in any number of ways.
And, while attacking, and failing, at an attack on a caravan would definitely alert those with a vested interest in the safe delivery of said goods, I don’t think there would be any direct causality between your defeat, an them increasing in strength. Unless you mean the enemy gaining xp, upon your and your comrades death(s).
Having said that, is there an xp gain from a succesful PvP fight, outside of the success of the delivery, or raid, depending on who wins?
[/quote]
I may have forgotten the game doesnt seem to have full corpse looting so the gain i was thinking of was my armor, weapons and so on that i had equiped your probably right the gain would probably out weight the risk of attacking a caravan as there is highly likely to be several times the good on that caravan than the random gear i would drop
I am afraid we come from very different games as to me the idea of carring something that represents 2+ hours of game time is kinda risky and i would be aware of the risk and take precautions to avoid running into a situation where i would loose it, consent is another thing that just does not uccur to me in terms of PVP the MMO i played for the longest was a game called Eve Online which was not perfect but it had a Safe area(well safe in the sence that if someone opens fire on you they will die that does not necessarily mean youll live however) the safe area was limited in terms of what resources you could get and the likes so people were heavily incetiviesed to go into not safe areas both PVP and PVE players are incentivised to go into this area where the reward is higher and the risk is higher due to the ever existing treat of PVP and the only safety you would find in such areas was by not being found or player enforced safety.[/quote]
However risky it is, you still have to make it back to some form of storage... which is problematic when you're not near a bank. Especially when there is no fast travel. For me, that risk should be a PvE risk (easy to be prepped for mobs, humans are unpredictable) and the specific item is unlikely to be the one looted by a mob if I die, rather than it being chosen by a PKer.
I know better than to play EVE. That game is not even remotely enticing to me.
[quote]I would agree for AOE to have safe areas specifically where the new player spawn in and the surrounding area where they can learn the game in safety, however once we start setting up Nodes and the likes i really hope anything outside the city walls is full PVP where any safety is enforced by the players who live in and run the node.[/quote]
Sure, but that is really beside the point. It's likely already part of the game design.
[quote]As for if i would have to destroy your progress to effect the node that entirly depends on the mechanics of the game iam used to Eve online where the mechanics were purely a creation destruction economy so everything that was built could be destroyed so for me to effect something the progress of that person had to be destroyed, say we take the your mining example it is likely the stuff you are mining that is making your node progress so in order for me to acomplish my goal i would either have to kill you, conficate your Iron or what ever your mining, or i guess if your particually convincing person i guess i could let you go with the Iron under the premise of not coming back as that would also result in less but not as less as removing the Iron from you, iam afraid in a situation like this its not personal its a utilitian act where my goal is X it just so happens that if i do that it might ruin someones day.[/quote]
Pretty much everything we do will affect the node, I think.
It's going to take you more than one play session to disrupt the node, so what are your objectives for that specific night? What was your objective before encountering me? What would you do at the mine if no players were there?
If I was at a mine wanting to disrupt the node, I would blow up as much of the mine as possible. Or mine as much ore as I could and carry it back to my region, using it to progress my node. The only reason for me to attack any character there is if they are going to try to stop me from blowing up the mine or try to stop me from mining there. Unless I had a node generated quest to kill as many people there as possible.
If I was on a kill quest, I would strive to kill NPCs rather than players. Of course, because I'm a cooperative player rather than a competitive player.
But, if it's a node generated quest that you can only complete by killing me, sure I'd let you do that and might not even fight back. Because we, the players, are ultimately working together to drive the narrative of the server.
I am a carebear so, yes, I generally care if I'm ruining other people's day.
Node quests could push me to not care about ruining other players' play sessions - especially if they are actively trying to stop me from completing the quests.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/gear-loss-as-a-red-player/page/3/#post-18138" rel="nofollow">freespiryt wrote:</a></div>
<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/gear-loss-as-a-red-player/page/3/#post-18113" rel="nofollow">Draugr_BearBlood wrote:</a></div>
<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/gear-loss-as-a-red-player/page/2/#post-18103" rel="nofollow">freespiryt wrote:</a></div>
While I’m not one to try to judge anyone’s idea of what they think is fun, I do wonder, why limit yourself to making individual’s scatter at your passing, when one could do so mush more? Why concern yourself with small scale skirmishes. Granted, if you see someone strutting about, with an aura of power about them, then maybe, if they’re amenable.
But, chasing down well guarded caravans, defeating any guards, or hired mercs, taking the loot…that’s exciting! Building a name as the scourge of all traders! Having guilds, and merchants, list you as public enemy number one (in a good way. not a as a red-named PK’er). Having those same merchants seek you out, to perhaps bribe you with gold and items, to let their cargo pass unharmed. Or, set you on a rivals caravan….the possibilities abound, my friend!
Just a thought.
</blockquote>
Personally i wouldnt limit myself to one method of weaking a node, if a missed shipment from a trader is more harming i would consider the likely hood of success of taking out said trader and if i figured good odds of success then i would take on the trade caravan after all a failed attack on a trade caravan is a boost to the enemy so its better to avoid such a skirmish if it is unfavorable.
It would always depend on the situation depending on the situation such as how many people i have with me, how were equiped, what classes we have, what we can see of the enemies defenses for all i know alot of mines may prove to be unfavorable engagements.
Its a risk vrs reward thing do we risk failing and thus making the enemy stronger or do we avoid the combat and take a more likely victory.
</blockquote>
lol I was giving one, small, admittedly incomplete example of how pv could be enjoyed outside of just focusing on PK’ing. Given the system that Intrepid says they intend to implement, there are many permutations of PvP to be had, in any number of ways.
And, while attacking, and failing, at an attack on a caravan would definitely alert those with a vested interest in the safe delivery of said goods, I don’t think there would be any direct causality between your defeat, an them increasing in strength. Unless you mean the enemy gaining xp, upon your and your comrades death(s).
Having said that, is there an xp gain from a succesful PvP fight, outside of the success of the delivery, or raid, depending on who wins?
</blockquote>
I may have forgotten the game doesnt seem to have full corpse looting so the gain i was thinking of was my armor, weapons and so on that i had equiped your probably right the gain would probably out weight the risk of attacking a caravan as there is highly likely to be several times the good on that caravan than the random gear i would drop
[/quote]
I believe the only corrupted players have the ability to drop gear, upon death in PvP. Any other type of PvP loss, as far as personal items, would be any materials on hand. And, possibly gold? Not sure about the gold part, though. But, you would also incur xp debt, and gear damage, of course. So far, as I know.
But, if you want that rich caravan loot, the risk must equal the reward, right?
<em>A Non-Combatant who dies suffers normal penalties, which includes experience debt, durability loss, as well as dropping a portion of carried raw materials (which can then be looted). A Combatant who dies suffers these same penalties, but at half the Non-Combatant rate. A character who has a Corruption Score on the other hand, suffers penalties at three times the rate of a Non-Combatant, and has a chance to drop *any* carried/equipped items based on their current Corruption Score.</em>
<blockquote><a href="http://www.mmogames.com/gamearticles/interview-ashes-of-creation-wants-bring-virtual-world-life/" rel="nofollow">Interview: Ashes of Creation Wants to Bring the Virtual World to Life</a>
</blockquote>
</div>
<em>A Non-Combatant who dies suffers normal penalties, which includes experience debt, durability loss, as well as dropping a portion of carried raw materials (which can then be looted). A Combatant who dies suffers these same penalties, but at half the Non-Combatant rate. A character who has a Corruption Score on the other hand, suffers penalties at three times the rate of a Non-Combatant, and has a chance to drop *any* carried/equipped items based on their current Corruption Score.</em>
[/quote]
I wonder if gold falls under the category of "raw materials". If it does, it definitely wouldn't be safe to carry around large sums, which would make banks, either town/city run, or your own personal safe at home, even more important to have. Pure conjecture on my part.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/gear-loss-as-a-red-player/page/3/#post-18141" rel="nofollow">Draugr_BearBlood wrote:</a></div>
I am afraid we come from very different games as to me the idea of carring something that represents 2+ hours of game time is kinda risky and i would be aware of the risk and take precautions to avoid running into a situation where i would loose it, consent is another thing that just does not uccur to me in terms of PVP the MMO i played for the longest was a game called Eve Online which was not perfect but it had a Safe area(well safe in the sence that if someone opens fire on you they will die that does not necessarily mean youll live however) the safe area was limited in terms of what resources you could get and the likes so people were heavily incetiviesed to go into not safe areas both PVP and PVE players are incentivised to go into this area where the reward is higher and the risk is higher due to the ever existing treat of PVP and the only safety you would find in such areas was by not being found or player enforced safety.
</blockquote>
However risky it is, you still have to make it back to some form of storage… which is problematic when you’re not near a bank. Especially when there is no fast travel. For me, that risk should be a PvE risk (easy to be prepped for mobs, humans are unpredictable) and the specific item is unlikely to be the one looted by a mob if I die, rather than it being chosen by a PKer.
I know better than to play EVE. That game is not even remotely enticing to me.
<blockquote>I would agree for AOE to have safe areas specifically where the new player spawn in and the surrounding area where they can learn the game in safety, however once we start setting up Nodes and the likes i really hope anything outside the city walls is full PVP where any safety is enforced by the players who live in and run the node.
</blockquote>
Sure, but that is really beside the point. It’s likely already part of the game design.
<blockquote>As for if i would have to destroy your progress to effect the node that entirly depends on the mechanics of the game iam used to Eve online where the mechanics were purely a creation destruction economy so everything that was built could be destroyed so for me to effect something the progress of that person had to be destroyed, say we take the your mining example it is likely the stuff you are mining that is making your node progress so in order for me to acomplish my goal i would either have to kill you, conficate your Iron or what ever your mining, or i guess if your particually convincing person i guess i could let you go with the Iron under the premise of not coming back as that would also result in less but not as less as removing the Iron from you, iam afraid in a situation like this its not personal its a utilitian act where my goal is X it just so happens that if i do that it might ruin someones day.
</blockquote>
Pretty much everything we do will affect the node, I think.
It’s going to take you more than one play session to disrupt the node, so what are your objectives for that specific night? What was your objective before encountering me? What would you do at the mine if no players were there?
If I was at a mine wanting to disrupt the node, I would blow up as much of the mine as possible. Or mine as much ore as I could and carry it back to my region, using it to progress my node. The only reason for me to attack any character there is if they are going to try to stop me from blowing up the mine or try to stop me from mining there. Unless I had a node generated quest to kill as many people there as possible.
If I was on a kill quest, I would strive to kill NPCs rather than players. Of course, because I’m a cooperative player rather than a competitive player.
But, if it’s a node generated quest that you can only complete by killing me, sure I’d let you do that and might not even fight back. Because we, the players, are ultimately working together to drive the narrative of the server.
I am a carebear so, yes, I generally care if I’m ruining other people’s day.
Node quests could push me to not care about ruining other players’ play sessions – especially if they are actively trying to stop me from completing the quests.
[/quote]
I dont see that as a problem to me part of the planning is and should be the how am i going to get to the destination find what iam looking for aquire said item and making my way home if after aquiring the item your then taking a risk by not returning home or to the bank to go on to do other things, no fast travel is required as your capacity to carry stuff basicly simulates range you go out fill up then go home unload make a new plan.
It has been my experience in games in general that the AI pose no real treat as they are typically designed specifically to beaten by the average player to the effect of creating a power fantasy which it does create but one that is ultamitly a illusion when every player is a epic warrior no one is truely epic it just raises the bar of average so i dont really want the AI to be considered the risk of riskier areas as you said your self they are easier to prepare for.
I can respect that Eve is not for everyone it took years (Literally) of learning the various mechanics and how the ecomony works and so on to have a good understanding of how to play the game.
My goal is simple go out disrupt the node i dont intend to see any result straight away but over the course of days weeks it adds up so in general i would no where iam to hunt so i arrive in the general area and start scouting the area understand iam not setting out OK theres a mine at X place the node is my target so i go the node then hunt for ways to hurt it, in the situation where i stuble across a mine ill try to see if its in use sabotage it if possible, cave it in if possible, lure a big pissed off monster to it if possible then leave to look for other ways to distrupt the node be it caravans other resource sites try to find people grinding rats for powerfull items, kill straglers who are trying to defend, perhaps can raid warehouses or the likes maybe, if i can take on the defenders i will and in the unlikely event that i can raise the node iam unfriendly with i would raise it to the ground.
I hope that everything doesnt accumulate to node progress or the most efficient method i could employ is to camp the entrences to the town or simply tail people from the enterence and kill them when out of range of the city walls, honestly i hope the game doesnt come to that i would preffer that there needs to be tangable resources and the likes required for the node to advance like that from a mine, trade routes, finding stuff worth alot of money, food and so on at least all of this is tangable stuff for me to target where as if the node developes by activity alone that means the resource i must hunt is players and this may come as a suprise to some but i dont necessarily want to simply hunt people for the sake of killing them alternatives is always nice to have.
Lastly you can be a cearbear all you want mate i wont judge you for it in fact i consider what i call industry people i think i heard people here refer to them as crafters to be a important role in a game that has systems like this could even be some synergy between hunters and crafters as hunters do tend to find them selfs getting around so might find a rare ore vein or something they cant make use of that people like your self could have.
[/quote]
Indeed i think people may need to get used to the idea of expendable gear a bit more in Eve there was a saying dont fly what you cant afford to replace, i suspect there will be something simular in this game to the effect of making peace with you can loose stuff in death, iam suprised so many people seem to not be alright with death that impacts you i guess i just got used to it in games like that.
they want to minimise pointless killing, but Why does a flagged played get so harsh penalties? If i'm flagged red I have a chance to drop items that's fine, and i'm also hunted by other non flagged players for bounty, thats fine too, but In a sandbox style game what is the benefit of me PKing a non flagged player? Do they drop loot or coin as well?
If I as a flagged player drop loot and bounties for non flagged players benefit, what benefit do I get from becoming flagged in the first place?
If this is a true risk vs reward game then becoming flagged should offer reward as well ex: chance of loot drop lower% than a flagged player maybe, % of carried coin etc, which would then make a banking system important, so you dont carry all your valuables at one time.
Either give everyone Risk, flagged and non flagged or I say remove the penalties, your going to be hunted for bounties anyway by anti PK squats if u get to anoying to the locals.
Currently there seems to be no reward for being flagged and its all risk only.
I'm not asking for it to be fair, But at least make both sides worth it.
just my 2cents, I'm from old school, PvP games The Realm/UO/EQ/Shadowbane etc where risk, reward and loss was a thing.
I dont see that as a problem to me part of the planning is and should be the how am i going to get to the destination find what iam looking for aquire said item and making my way home if after aquiring the item your then taking a risk by not returning home or to the bank to go on to do other things, no fast travel is required as your capacity to carry stuff basicly simulates range you go out fill up then go home unload make a new plan.[/quote]
I just had to learn to accept that PvPers are jerks who don't have the good sportsmanship to leave people alone when they're not in the mood to battle them.
[quote]It has been my experience in games in general that the AI pose no real treat as they are typically designed specifically to beaten by the average player to the effect of creating a power fantasy which it does create but one that is ultamitly a illusion when every player is a epic warrior no one is truely epic it just raises the bar of average so i dont really want the AI to be considered the risk of riskier areas as you said your self they are easier to prepare for.[/quote]
Exactly. That's the level of challenge that PvEers want. Which is why it doesn't really work to have them on the same server as PvPers.
[quote]I can respect that Eve is not for everyone it took years (Literally) of learning the various mechanics and how the ecomony works and so on to have a good understanding of how to play the game.[/quote]
That's a weird response for this discussion.
[quote]My goal is simple go out disrupt the node i dont intend to see any result straight away but over the course of days weeks it adds up so in general i would no where iam to hunt so i arrive in the general area and start scouting the area understand iam not setting out OK theres a mine at X place the node is my target so i go the node then hunt for ways to hurt it, in the situation where i stuble across a mine ill try to see if its in use sabotage it if possible, cave it in if possible, lure a big pissed off monster to it if possible then leave to look for other ways to distrupt the node be it caravans other resource sites try to find people grinding rats for powerfull items, kill straglers who are trying to defend, perhaps can raid warehouses or the likes maybe, if i can take on the defenders i will and in the unlikely event that i can raise the node iam unfriendly with i would raise it to the ground.[/quote]
Yeah, but killing a player mining there is probably just going to disrupt that player's play session rather than disrupt the node. Scaring him off isn't going to do much to disrupt the node either unless your going to camp the mine for several hours to make sure he's not going to mine there for several hours.
[quote]I hope that everything doesnt accumulate to node progress or the most efficient method i could employ is to camp the entrences to the town or simply tail people from the enterence and kill them when out of range of the city walls, honestly i hope the game doesnt come to that i would preffer that there needs to be tangable resources and the likes required for the node to advance like that from a mine, trade routes, finding stuff worth alot of money, food and so on at least all of this is tangable stuff for me to target where as if the node developes by activity alone that means the resource i must hunt is players and this may come as a suprise to some but i dont necessarily want to simply hunt people for the sake of killing them alternatives is always nice to have.[/qupte]
The nodes are tracking what players do in their vicinity and respond in a variety of ways.
Killing one player isn't going to be significant enough to have much affect on the node. That's just one drop in a very large pond.
All of the stuff you listed is going to be way more significant than killing one character at a mine. Which is why I asked what your specific objective will be. "I'm going to camp the mine and hope one player arrives so I can kill him in order to disrupt the node."
That's a pointless objective...beyond putting a notch in your belt of player kills.
You're going to the mine hoping to do what to disrupt the node?
Steal some ore, blow up some ore, blow up the mine? Attack the caravan leaving the mine?
Killing a player who is mining there doesn't add anything significant to any of that.
[quote]Lastly you can be a cearbear all you want mate i wont judge you for it in fact i consider what i call industry people i think i heard people here refer to them as crafters to be a important role in a game that has systems like this could even be some synergy between hunters and crafters as hunters do tend to find them selfs getting around so might find a rare ore vein or something they cant make use of that people like your self could have.[/quote]
The devs are hoping for that synergy, I know.
It's a PVPers pipe dream. But, it's really one-sided and just an excuse for PvPers to glorify their love of PvP combat. "Crafters" don't want that protection.
There are two flags:
Blue is a combatant
Red is a corrupted
The system is designed to encourage players being flagged as combatants and to discourage players remaining flagged as corrupted. You'll really only be hunted if your flagged as corrupted.
Combatant is basic PvP combat... the death penalties are half the normal penalty for dying.
Corrupted is PKing - like a high level character ganking a low level character.
[quote]If I as a flagged player drop loot and bounties for non flagged players benefit, what benefit do I get from becoming flagged in the first place?[/quote]
The death penalty for a non-combatant is normal xp debt, durability loss and some raw resources can be looted.
The death penalty for a combatant is half that. So, if some one attacks you, you lose less if you attack them back and they kill you than you do if you flee, but they kill you.
[quote]I’m not asking for it to be fair, But at least make both sides worth it.[/quote]
There are three states you can be in for PvP combat:
non-combatant
combatant
corrupted
Old school, there are only two. That's your disconnect, I think.
It doesn't sound as bad when you put it like that.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/gear-loss-as-a-red-player/page/4/#post-18202" rel="nofollow">Draugr_BearBlood wrote:</a></div>
I dont see that as a problem to me part of the planning is and should be the how am i going to get to the destination find what iam looking for aquire said item and making my way home if after aquiring the item your then taking a risk by not returning home or to the bank to go on to do other things, no fast travel is required as your capacity to carry stuff basicly simulates range you go out fill up then go home unload make a new plan.
</blockquote>
I just had to learn to accept that PvPers are jerks who don’t have the good sportsmanship to leave people alone when they’re not in the mood to battle them.
<blockquote>It has been my experience in games in general that the AI pose no real treat as they are typically designed specifically to beaten by the average player to the effect of creating a power fantasy which it does create but one that is ultamitly a illusion when every player is a epic warrior no one is truely epic it just raises the bar of average so i dont really want the AI to be considered the risk of riskier areas as you said your self they are easier to prepare for.
</blockquote>
Exactly. That’s the level of challenge that PvEers want. Which is why it doesn’t really work to have them on the same server as PvPers.
<blockquote>I can respect that Eve is not for everyone it took years (Literally) of learning the various mechanics and how the ecomony works and so on to have a good understanding of how to play the game.
</blockquote>
That’s a weird response for this discussion.
<blockquote>My goal is simple go out disrupt the node i dont intend to see any result straight away but over the course of days weeks it adds up so in general i would no where iam to hunt so i arrive in the general area and start scouting the area understand iam not setting out OK theres a mine at X place the node is my target so i go the node then hunt for ways to hurt it, in the situation where i stuble across a mine ill try to see if its in use sabotage it if possible, cave it in if possible, lure a big pissed off monster to it if possible then leave to look for other ways to distrupt the node be it caravans other resource sites try to find people grinding rats for powerfull items, kill straglers who are trying to defend, perhaps can raid warehouses or the likes maybe, if i can take on the defenders i will and in the unlikely event that i can raise the node iam unfriendly with i would raise it to the ground.
</blockquote>
Yeah, but killing a player mining there is probably just going to disrupt that player’s play session rather than disrupt the node. Scaring him off isn’t going to do much to disrupt the node either unless your going to camp the mine for several hours to make sure he’s not going to mine there for several hours.
<blockquote>I hope that everything doesnt accumulate to node progress or the most efficient method i could employ is to camp the entrences to the town or simply tail people from the enterence and kill them when out of range of the city walls, honestly i hope the game doesnt come to that i would preffer that there needs to be tangable resources and the likes required for the node to advance like that from a mine, trade routes, finding stuff worth alot of money, food and so on at least all of this is tangable stuff for me to target where as if the node developes by activity alone that means the resource i must hunt is players and this may come as a suprise to some but i dont necessarily want to simply hunt people for the sake of killing them alternatives is always nice to have.[/qupte]
The nodes are tracking what players do in their vicinity and respond in a variety of ways.
Killing one player isn’t going to be significant enough to have much affect on the node. That’s just one drop in a very large pond.
All of the stuff you listed is going to be way more significant than killing one character at a mine. Which is why I asked what your specific objective will be. “I’m going to camp the mine and hope one player arrives so I can kill him in order to disrupt the node.”
That’s a pointless objective…beyond putting a notch in your belt of player kills.
You’re going to the mine hoping to do what to disrupt the node?
Steal some ore, blow up some ore, blow up the mine? Attack the caravan leaving the mine?
Killing a player who is mining there doesn’t add anything significant to any of that.
[quote]Lastly you can be a cearbear all you want mate i wont judge you for it in fact i consider what i call industry people i think i heard people here refer to them as crafters to be a important role in a game that has systems like this could even be some synergy between hunters and crafters as hunters do tend to find them selfs getting around so might find a rare ore vein or something they cant make use of that people like your self could have.
</blockquote>
The devs are hoping for that synergy, I know.
It’s a PVPers pipe dream. But, it’s really one-sided and just an excuse for PvPers to glorify their love of PvP combat. “Crafters” don’t want that protection.
[/quote]
Lol sportsmanship thats like the honor in PVP argument ive seen in other games, if the question comes between whats sportsmanlike and whats effective people will side with whats effective 9 times out of 10, to quote a saying that applies to any open world PVP game "If it was a fair fight, you did something wrong", the only time you will see honor in PVP is when the other person is supremely confindent in there ability to defeat you if it comes to it but its also unlikely as its alot easier to just kill the person than to converse with them.
If i kill them the node doesnt receive the ore he was mining, i will only not kill the player if i have a alternative to doing so like caving in the mine to assure he cant just betray me not to mention if i find out they have betrayed the trust of letting them live they wont be let live again as ive got a long memory.
It most certainly is not a PVP pipe dream most PVP players dont want to deal with crafters to make use of interesting stuff they find let alone in regards to needing to get gear from said crafters, both sides inconvenience the others but both also make up for the weakness of the other and for what its worth people who dont like relying on players to secure the area they can mine can always stick to the low level areas where it is safe after all why reward that which has no risk, and PVP players who dont want to deal with crafters can play a game with the gear they happen to find which is likely medicore compared to what decent crafters can make.
Characters can be evil, of course. But players should be honorable. PvPers are not honorable. Which is why PvEers don't want to play on the same servers as PvPers.
Thanks. That actually is the crux of the problem. And why this pipedream of synergy is doomed to fail.
You say that the synergy is not a PVPer pipe dream and yet I hear PvPers state just that time after time.
Especially, when regaling the beauty of the game designs for EQNext and AoC.
Honor and Sportsmanship have nothing to do with a game with open world PvP you can have duels, but that is not commen.
Someone asked you, what would you do if you waited for that rare crafting mates and another PvE player steals it in front of you even if you where first.
is this honor or sportsmanship? So PvE players are not any better? Maybe you should stop daydreaming about stuff you clearly do not understand?
But, a player who plays without honor is a jerk. Yes.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/gear-loss-as-a-red-player/#post-17622" rel="nofollow">Fleelix wrote:</a></div>
Start over from skretch that would be the dumbest thing for a pvp game if u gank once or twice to much lol.
Why u use so many capital letters in your text. Cinda annoying to read.
</blockquote>
Danish phone ^^ sorry
<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/gear-loss-as-a-red-player/#post-17736" rel="nofollow">Dygz wrote:</a></div>
Um. Players shouldn’t be red.
Characters can become red.
Character don’t lose their levels, so should be no reason to have to start a main character over simply due to corruption.
If you spend so much time being red that you gain a reputation that causes you to be Kill On Sight in the eyes of the other players on your server, you might want to start a new character.
If you really want to spend a lot of time playing red characters without negatively impacting your main character, just create alts that you don’t mind getting corrupted. Play them like zombies…zombies don’t need gear.
</blockquote>
Well the idea of being a red player is that your main charector is Know for being a player killer <img alt="????" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/2.2.1/svg/1f642.svg" /> and if pk is punished so harshly as dropping gear you might have spent days/weeks/months to get, it is stupid <img alt="????" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/2.2.1/svg/1f642.svg" /> So either they have to make gear easy to get or remove that kinda of punishment. Please do note i have no problem getting punished by killing a player but if that punishment is so harsh that you completly remove the possibility of pk’ers why have a flag system at all? And for the caravans pvp just flag the people defending/attacking when they pick the option <img alt="????" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/2.2.1/svg/1f642.svg" />
[/quote]
Thats the point.
PvP Combat good.
Mass Murder bad.
Thats the games design. You are not supposed to like it. Because that kind of conudtc will not be tolerated. ;)
You are welcome to play.
You are welcome to enjoy the game with everyone.
You can even still go ganking.
But this is not acceptable conduct and is heavily penalised.
Also i would Much rather See a lvl downgrade or debuff after a red death ^^ ofc these kinda systems might not be as effective IF there is a lvl cap <img alt="????" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/2.2.1/svg/1f642.svg" />
[/quote]
Gear will be easy to come by. Hell just normal PVE will make your gear break where you have to choose to replace the gear or spend time finding the mats to repair your gear. In Ashes gear will not be a big deal. It will be a pain in the ass to replace but not a big deal like WOW.
As for you losing your gear because you are PKing people. Yes you should. The developers already said they do not want this game to become a gankfest. So if you just kill anyone and everybody you will get corruption and will end up risking a lot. If you dont like then do not PK just anyone or gank low levels. There will be a lot of PVP in this game that will have no corruption gained to it. But if you want to be a dick in the game you should suffer for it.
I do personally feel 'corruption' should however be account wide to prevent character flipping and can only depreciate* while logged on. 'If they want to use multiple accounts then at least they are paying more sub fees.
the penalties should fit the crime.
I however do not agree that all PK'rs are "arsehats" and that many players easily forget this is consenting 'role play' and in so agreeing to the terms must respect and appreciate the right to play an alignment, be it lawful good to chaotic evil however that player wishes to be.
There will be victims, there will be criminals and there will be justice.
I find that prospect exciting.
There's pvp, and then there's that guy. He's the red I'm talking about punishing. If I had my way he'd have been permanently naked after being killed a couple times by the allies who came to help. He deserved no less. And since a naked 60 can still kill level 15s with incredible ease, there should even be a penalty beyond gear loss. For this reason I'm in favor of corpse runs which originate at the home node for a red player. A nice long run to cool the aggression and dissuade future abuse.
To this day when I think back on that I wonder what was going on in that kid's life that he thought it was cool or funny to be there doing that.
I realize Intrepid Studios has to be careful and do their best to cater to all types to make AoC the most successful it can be. I am aware that the industry giant who still holds the record for most subs absolutely dominated its predecessor due to improved accessibility and their candy-coated minimal death penalty. That has become the industry standard, so clearly it's what the masses want. That doesn't change the love I still hold for said predecessor. I'm a different beast than most, I'll admit. I enjoy a good grind session where social interaction is as important as level progression and gear acquisition. I miss developing relationships with a group of solid players so that we could find an appropriately challenging grind spot to earn above-average experience in a world where leveling was hard as hell. Everything I've played since then is either pvp centric or simply put, far too easy.
Everyone should feel some pain when they fail. I just think pvpers should feel it far more acutely when their idea of fun is ruining the fun of others. There will hopefully be plenty of opportunities for challenging pvp without griefing non-combatant or new players.
I'm not so sure Chuck Norris comments are restricted solely to horde/barrens chat. It blows my mind that it's a thing in the first place, but I'm sure Alliance talked about him, too. :)
I was on a pvp server and I loved it. Running my hunter epic quest while dealing with pvp was especially amusing and frustrating. My guild allowed only the help of one person in the completion of those quests so it took quite a while to finish with player enemies harassing me and helping the npcs. That is to say I am good at pvp and enjoy it. That does not mean the experience I described is ever okay. Another common thing I remember on that server was rogues sneaking into Orgrimmar bank and AH and ganking people while they're occupied in those screens. Those rogues would die hundreds of times, but they'd keep right at it without a serious penalty.