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The AoC PvP / PK Corruption system ... Love it? Hate it? Please change it?

1356

Comments

  • Yep, I used to use that same mechanic as a jedi in SWG, be grinding solo down in the corner of some map, see people start to appear at the edge of my radar, plop down a small house, and wait em out. They would 3 little piggies all day trying to huff and puff and blow the door down. I would just log off and come back later.
    They are already thinking on ways to avoid people getting killed by their friends to lose a debuff. The mechanics outlined so far for people you can't attack are friends list, group/raid member, guild member, and alliance member can't be attacked by you. While you may say "Well, people will just drop guild, and then rejoin after killing their friend.", there are cooldowns and penalties going to be put in place for just those circumstances. Several crafty players with years of experience with MMOs are already planning to test out any exploits and workarounds in Alpha 1. Hopefully in the long road from persistent Alpha to Live most will be caught and adjusted.
    While they haven't released any hard numbers on Metropolis citizenship minimums, it will probably take around 1000 active citizens to maintain from degrading. So on a full server at cap, half the population will be tied up to those areas, and the other half contesting guild castles and other minor nodes not in the ZOI. Of course this is several months into live, but eventually it will get there.
  • There is no reason to afraid from zergs, they are rare, and easy to spot, there in no point for zerging 1 player. Zergs are usually fighting with other zergs. You can always run using your class abilities and the world landscape .
  • I think the system is good as it is. It is more harsh then Lineage 2 and thats necessary (i played Lineage 2 a long time and the system there was not enough to prevent all-day ganking).
    when the system seems to be too harsh (but nobody can tell that now) then just lower the debuff (or make it possible to grind it off - but that should be a long grind if your corruption is high).

    Just don't do any mistakes like other games. what happened there?
    * gankers would get some kind of "nerf".
    * gankers flood the forum -> "no, i want open wold pvp. just let us fight without debuff".
    * system gets implemented with no debuff.
    * gankers gank all the time, but never against someone of the same strength (i can still remember the start of Aion and that "special" friendship of many "top-pvp" (or just best geared ;-))- elyos and asmodeans; they truly wanted good fights, so they just never attacked each other ^^).
    * many people not wanting to gank or get ganked leave the game
    * the gankers flood the forum -> "open pvp is dead. do something!"

    i like pvp, i participate in pvp, but i dislike that stupid ganking thing, where someone attacks me while i fight a mob, have half life and then get shouted when losing. if AoC turns into something like that then i am out.

  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited August 2017
    WoRei said:

    * gankers gank all the time, but never against someone of the same strength (i
    It is mmorpg , no one here at the same strength , it is stupid to say something like that . And the idea is not to prevent ganking but to make it risk=reward. If you dont like it than go to any other casual game like FFXIV.
  • Eleanc said:
    WoRei said:

    * gankers gank all the time, but never against someone of the same strength (i
    It is mmorpg , no one here at the same strength , it is stupid to say something like that . And the idea is not to prevent ganking but to make it risk=reward. If you dont like it than go to any other casual game like FFXIV.
    Gankers  don't always know what level or experience another player has.  

    Ashes is about risk=consequences whether they are rewards or penalties.  Risk equals consequences in every aspect of the game according to individual choices and those of groups that work together.   The choice is up to the player of which road they will travel in Ashes.   

    Your  idea of a game isn't necessarily that of everyone else.  Ashes happens to be the idea of Steven and the devs, and backed by many who do not share your ideas but do share theirs. 

    MMORPG does not necessarily mean PVP but has many genres.  Ashes is a PvX.  It's not strictly PvP or PvE and Intrepid is trying to do what is good for all.  


    Are you afraid of testing it out in Alpha and Beta?   
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited August 2017
    @WoRei
    i like pvp, i participate in pvp, but i dislike that stupid ganking thing, where someone attacks me while i fight a mob, have half life and then get shouted when losing. if AoC turns into something like that then i am out.
    Your place will take +10 true PvP gamers! Nostradamus is dieing inside me  :'( 

  • I voted strictly on my preference for how I like PvP systems to work, however, I think it's pertinent to first see how the corruption system performs first before making any drastic changes to it.

    The devs have a vision for how they want the game to work.  It's illogical to make changes to the system when we don't even know how effective it is.  If Alpha testers find significant issues plaguing the current system, then it's time to make changes based on legitimate feedback.  At this point, all we can do is speculate on how we think the system will fail/succeed.
  • Eleanc said:
    WoRei said:

    * gankers gank all the time, but never against someone of the same strength (i
    It is mmorpg , no one here at the same strength , it is stupid to say something like that . And the idea is not to prevent ganking but to make it risk=reward. If you dont like it than go to any other casual game like FFXIV.
    Gankers  don't always know what level or experience another player has.  

    Ashes is about risk=consequences whether they are rewards or penalties.  Risk equals consequences in every aspect of the game according to individual choices and those of groups that work together.   The choice is up to the player of which road they will travel in Ashes.   

    Your  idea of a game isn't necessarily that of everyone else.  Ashes happens to be the idea of Steven and the devs, and backed by many who do not share your ideas but do share theirs. 

    MMORPG does not necessarily mean PVP but has many genres.  Ashes is a PvX.  It's not strictly PvP or PvE and Intrepid is trying to do what is good for all.  


    Are you afraid of testing it out in Alpha and Beta?   
    risk=consequences not worth making such penalties , if penalties are big , the reward should make it worth, if it doesnt no one will do such thing.
    I am waiting for alfa test as much as everyone else.
  • Eleanc said:
    Eleanc said:
    WoRei said:

    * gankers gank all the time, but never against someone of the same strength (i
    It is mmorpg , no one here at the same strength , it is stupid to say something like that . And the idea is not to prevent ganking but to make it risk=reward. If you dont like it than go to any other casual game like FFXIV.
    Gankers  don't always know what level or experience another player has.  

    Ashes is about risk=consequences whether they are rewards or penalties.  Risk equals consequences in every aspect of the game according to individual choices and those of groups that work together.   The choice is up to the player of which road they will travel in Ashes.   

    Your  idea of a game isn't necessarily that of everyone else.  Ashes happens to be the idea of Steven and the devs, and backed by many who do not share your ideas but do share theirs. 

    MMORPG does not necessarily mean PVP but has many genres.  Ashes is a PvX.  It's not strictly PvP or PvE and Intrepid is trying to do what is good for all.  


    Are you afraid of testing it out in Alpha and Beta?   
    risk=consequences not worth making such penalties , if penalties are big , the reward should make it worth, if it doesnt no one will do such thing.
    I am waiting for alfa test as much as everyone else.
       You don't seem to get it.  The corruption system is NOT about reward.  It's about deterrents. 
    deterrents
    1. a thing that discourages or is intended to discourage someone from doing something.
    No one should be rewarded in place of penalties. lol Actions produce consequences.
    Your choice.  
  •    You don't seem to get it.  The corruption system is NOT about reward.  It's about deterrents. 
    deterrents
    1. a thing that discourages or is intended to discourage someone from doing something.
    No one should be rewarded in place of penalties. lol Actions produce consequences.
    Your choice.  
    Okay, so if it's about deterrents, what deters green players from harassing purple players into going red?
  •    You don't seem to get it.  The corruption system is NOT about reward.  It's about deterrents. 
    deterrents
    1. a thing that discourages or is intended to discourage someone from doing something.
    No one should be rewarded in place of penalties.


    So what is the point of open world PvP  ? Why would someone use it , if there is absolutely nothing but penalties ? You want for the open world PvP be removed from the game? 
  • J4y said:
    @Grisu Not harshly enought? 

    Player corruption

    • A player’s corruption score increases with each non-combatant player killed.

    • The wider the level disparity between the players the more corruption will be gained.

    • The higher the corruption score, the higher drop percentage when the corrupted player is killed (see Player death below).

    • The higher the corruption score, the more skill and stat dampening applies, until the corrupt player ultimately becomes ineffective at combat.

    • Corruption is removed through death. Multiple deaths may be necessary to remove all corruption. There may be other mechanics to reduce corruption.

    • Corruption has a visible effect on a player’s appearance.

    • A corrupt player’s location is revealed to bounty hunters.

    Player death

    • non-combatant who dies suffers normal penalties, which include experience debt, durability loss, as well as dropping a percentage of carried raw materials.

    • combatant who dies suffers these same penalties, but at half the rate of a non-combatant.

    • corrupt player suffers penalties at three or four times the rate of a non-combatant, and has a chance to drop any carried/equipped items based on their current corruption score. This includes weapons, gear, and inventory items.

    • After death, players respawn at random spawn locations.

    Asking @Lexmax to stop it.
    Stop what? Posting dev quotes? :confused:
  • @wraeven,  I've kinda discussed what I foresee happening, before (several months before) in a post that was quite similar to the ones cropping up now. Basically, I'll reiterate now what I said then:

    I believe that the game will release, and everyone and their brother will purchase it because it's the new shiny. The majority of these people will purchase it expecting it to be another open-world gankfest, then they'll get pissed off when there are numerous reasons to avoid ganking.

    These will be, like most of the people posting now, the ones who believe they're entitled to have a game do everything they think it should -- which primarily results in their being able to run around, unchecked, ganking and griefing galore. A previous post on this topic explicitly spelled out how one player may have a bad day at work and come home to gank others, so he can make their day miserable.

    After a couple of months of IS (hopefully!) standing firm, these people will move on to the next whatever. Wait! you say; then the studio is losing money!

    Well, honestly, are they really? What's the half-life of the ganking player in games these days? Well, in games where they can gank galore, it's a bit longer, but then the rest of us don't stick around, and eventually the game implodes. BDO is a quite fine example of that.

    The deal here is that we are striving to protect a community that we envision. That community doesn't have room for people who wish to come in and make others' lives miserable. Further, we've been assured by @GMSteven and others on the team that they're diligently working to make sure this game can not be a gankfest. That means that I, and everyone on the bandwagon with me, are looking at this game with tons of hope, because we intend to make a home in this game. So, monetarily, where's the best path lay? In giving in to the gankers who're screaming that harsh penalties disrupt their OWPvP? Or in holding fast to keep the faith with those of us who saw this as a promise, and invested our money in it?

    In reference to your opening statement? Ok, so I got your age wrong. The rest, I stand behind 100%.
  • Tirithel said:
       You don't seem to get it.  The corruption system is NOT about reward.  It's about deterrents. 
    deterrents
    1. a thing that discourages or is intended to discourage someone from doing something.
    No one should be rewarded in place of penalties. lol Actions produce consequences.
    Your choice.  
    Okay, so if it's about deterrents, what deters green players from harassing purple players into going red?
    If a player is harassing you, I'd advise blocking them or reporting to the nearest GM. If they're just trying to coerce you into a fight, then just ignore them. If they want to stay green then they wont touch you. 

    Eleanc said:
       You don't seem to get it.  The corruption system is NOT about reward.  It's about deterrents. 
    deterrents
    1. a thing that discourages or is intended to discourage someone from doing something.
    No one should be rewarded in place of penalties.


    So what is the point of open world PvP  ? Why would someone use it , if there is absolutely nothing but penalties ? You want for the open world PvP be removed from the game? 
    Again people keep arguing as if the level of rewards/penalties are not equal. It's a tit-for-tat system.

    Kill a green player, they lose a guaranteed portion of whatever mats they're carrying as well as exp and time, which is more valuable to them than the mats I'd wager. The attacker gets the loot and possibly some exp for the time it took to beat down a non-retaliatory player. The only risk here is that the green player hadn't had time to farm enough mats for the attacker to make a profit off of.

    Kill a combatant, they lose exp (less than a green player, If I recall correctly?) and time. Possibly mats drop, as well. I'm kinda foggy on the combatant part to be honest. In the case of both players having gone combatant, neither side really wins in the long run. A neutral spot in this seemingly chaotic system, if you will.

    Kill a corrupted player, they lose corruption, time, and roll for a chance to drop a piece of gear. This drop is not guaranteed until the corruption level is high enough a high roll is more likely. For the drop to take place the corrupted player may have already obtained multiple drops of mats from other players, there by nullifying most of the cost for their gear loss. 

    To answer the question "So what is the point of open world PvP?" directly:

    "Our PvP mechanics follow a flagging system, as well as static PvP zones at certain points of interest; fight for control over cities, castles, caravans, or hunting grounds. Our PvP is designed to offer the players a well-balanced and fair world to shape through the pen, or sword should they choose."

    Pulled from https://www.ashesofcreation.com/about/

    I thought it seemed pretty straightforward.


  • Tirithel said:
       You don't seem to get it.  The corruption system is NOT about reward.  It's about deterrents. 
    deterrents
    1. a thing that discourages or is intended to discourage someone from doing something.
    No one should be rewarded in place of penalties. lol Actions produce consequences.
    Your choice.  
    Okay, so if it's about deterrents, what deters green players from harassing purple players into going red?
    You can make anyone do what they don't want to do.  Walk away.  How would a green harass you by opting to mine where you do?  That's the nature of this game.

     Will they harass you by ignoring your taunts to fight them?  Is harassment sitting down or dancing as you threaten them instead of fighting you?

    Ever here of  the ignore button if anyone is saying things you don't like? Believe me it works against bullies.  Most so called green players know this.   

    The only one who can make you go red is YOU if you aren't already.   
    Your argument is meaningless. 
  • If a player is harassing you, I'd advise blocking them or reporting to the nearest GM. If they're just trying to coerce you into a fight, then just ignore them. If they want to stay green then they wont touch you. 
    That's what I personally afraid. Reports to GMs destroys the game. Ignorance do the same. Why do everyone think that big bros (a.k.a. GMs) should protect them from the GAME? Why do everyone want to convert MMO's to the single player meaningless? MMO games where meant for players to play with each other. Not for the rulers to rule. Not for the separated individuals to grind. Interaction is the highest priority of the greatest MMO's.
    I hope that Ashes of Creation will be Great.
  • @Isende

    and in reference to what I said, I really honestly do hope you're right. 

    I'd be very pleased with a game where unwanted pvp and unwanted trolling are both exceptionally rare occurrences. 

    Im here today in part because I'm still searching for one
  • Korella said:
    If a player is harassing you, I'd advise blocking them or reporting to the nearest GM. If they're just trying to coerce you into a fight, then just ignore them. If they want to stay green then they wont touch you. 
    That's what I personally afraid. Reports to GMs destroys the game. Ignorance do the same. Why do everyone think that big bros (a.k.a. GMs) should protect them from the GAME? Why do everyone want to convert MMO's to the single player meaningless? MMO games where meant for players to play with each other. Not for the rulers to rule. Not for the separated individuals to grind. Interaction is the highest priority of the greatest MMO's.
    I hope that Ashes of Creation will be Great.

     "Interaction is the highest priority of the greatest MMO's. 
    hope that Ashes of Creation will be Great."

    Your right in that remark. But,   INTERACT being the key word does not mean players have to constantly depend on others.   MMO's were also made for all to enjoy not to harass and bully others.  The IGNORE feature is the best form of defense.  
    The games developers make the rules NOT the players.   

  •  "Interaction is the highest priority of the greatest MMO's. 
    hope that Ashes of Creation will be Great."

    Your right in that remark. But,   INTERACT being the key word does not mean players have to constantly depend on others.   MMO's were also made for all to enjoy not to harass and bully others.  The IGNORE feature is the best form of defense.  
    The games developers make the rules NOT the players.   

    CylverRayne "The IGNORE feature is"... for kill target faster. Open worls PvP was meant to fight for good spots. If I wanna get the spot, I'd love to: 
    1. Say about it
    2. Fight for it
    3. Kill for it
    It'd be awesome if we'll do skillful test PvPing. If I win, the spot is mine. If I lose, I'll find the more peaceful place even if it's not that good as my first target. Is't it good? Skillful players deserve to get good spots. Casuals deserve to get remote and quiet places. So why the good spots should be peaceful?
  • Korella said:
     "Interaction is the highest priority of the greatest MMO's. 
    hope that Ashes of Creation will be Great."

    Your right in that remark. But,   INTERACT being the key word does not mean players have to constantly depend on others.   MMO's were also made for all to enjoy not to harass and bully others.  The IGNORE feature is the best form of defense.  
    The games developers make the rules NOT the players.   

    CylverRayne "The IGNORE feature is"... for kill target faster. Open worls PvP was meant to fight for good spots. If I wanna get the spot, I'd love to: 
    1. Say about it
    2. Fight for it
    3. Kill for it
    It'd be awesome if we'll do skillful test PvPing. If I win, the spot is mine. If I lose, I'll find the more peaceful place even if it's not that good as my first target. Is't it good? Skillful players deserve to get good spots. Casuals deserve to get remote and quiet places. So why the good spots should be peaceful?
    Kill a green for it and suffer the corruption if they don't fight back.  Your choice.  That's how the devs are designing it.  
  • I like a lot the approach of IS what it comes to flagging system and i have always favored competitive PvP. Ganking is far from that and that is why i see that the penalties are in rightful place. To me its not a problem that PvP focus to meaningful conflicts as sieges, castle fights, arenas and full loot caravan ambushes. I am excited of those plans. 

    Ganking is something i do occasionally, i dont do it to get satisfaction of killing, but i do that for profit or at least i try. Now i have some plans already to AoC. I will flag up and get corrupted, but in right time and place. I am not going to attack players randomly, but i choose the ones which are stocking resources to their donkeys. That guy have lots of loot right. I will wear gear i can easily afford and replace if i die and if i drop some gear. If i get some loot (resources most likely), i will fast go to deposit those and maybe go back after that do some more ganking. I might take few friends with me to bait bounty hunters. And when i want to get rid of corruption i will let some npc or mob to kill me or maybe even another player. Maybe i will be even naked that time to avoid any gear loses.. 

    Now maybe i am planning to do something that the game prevents me to do, but maybe then i figure out another ways to minimize risk to get some reward. Yeah lets see how this goes..


  • I think AoC is on the right track perhaps not strict enough on the penalties, but i could be wrong all depends on how willing pvpers are to gank eachother for profit. You have some like @Ferryman who basically said "I am looking to steal resources from newbs who cant possibly win" and others who have said "I want a real fight"

    So the corruption system was basically put into place to deter pointless ganking or the entire game would boil down to whos the best gank team. No one else could collect resources make the game advance or keep changing. 

    Couple situation i see occurring. Bounty hunters camping newbs waiting for @Ferryman to attack telling them "ill give your resources back if you dont purple, but i get his gear" on the other side @Ferryman making a deal with his friend to kill him and get his gear back for a share of the profit.

    Maybe whole bounty hunter guilds form for pvp profit. they stalk the best resource areas just waiting for a corrupt player ( who they can see on radar) so they dont even have to be close.

    the other side is there is no way to starve out a city like cutting off peoples ability to bring in resources, craft or launch pve missions from there.

    The system seems to provide the perfect counter balance to the current industry standard which is no-risk pvp or no pvp at all. Like i said they should step up the penalty offing  gold reward killing the corrupt player from the node the player became corrupt in or title or something.  But defiantly on the right track.

  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited August 2017
    Might also add the lack of mobility in this game keeps one group from dominating a server as we seen so many times in AA.

    edit: i do see the irony of bounty system turning gankers against other weakened gankers for profit. Basically turn the griefer into the griefed.. its almost poetic
  • Kill a green for it and suffer the corruption if they don't fight back.  Your choice.  That's how the devs are designing it.  
     That's the one of the easiest systems. And it has a lot of loopholes, heheh. The only thing I wanna see at this system is to force players to fight for things that belong to all. If you use something which I could use, proof that you are more suitable then I am. Or how can we understand who is more worthy? The one who came first and ignores everthing around like a bot? That's more then strange, heh :smile:
  • @Kadin i did not say i will go gank new players. I will choose the most profitable ones, which obviously are not new players with less value resources. And if my target chooses to run away, it has nothing to do with fair fight, its just about possible profit at that point. But like i said, ganking is just something i do occasionally and i focus those PvP conflicts, dungeons&raids and crafting. 
  • The PK system works, but at the very least, brahs... We'll get to PvPing.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited August 2017
    You may end up that bounty hunter who goes after corrupted players. i mean whats the cost difference between a mule full of logs and max level sword ?

    edit: more random thoughts. Resources can be carried if its few enough but even then i think "think" i read something about encumbrance. So even then slowly vs a players gear which can be tossed into inventory and not slow you down.. reds i think will be a great source of income for the pvper.
  • Kadin said:
    Might also add the lack of mobility in this game keeps one group from dominating a server as we seen so many times in AA.

    edit: i do see the irony of bounty system turning gankers against other weakened gankers for profit. Basically turn the griefer into the griefed.. its almost poetic
    Well problem with all this kind of systems is that players are always trying to find out loopholes and ways to playaround. But thats why we have several testing phases to get rid of all griefing tactics.      
  • Looking from the other side of things, will there be a mechanism in place to prevent red players from 'donating' their death to a guild mate, or buddy,...  having first stored any valuable equipment so as to avoid breakage


    being red will not have much meaning if your buddy can help you get rid of it with no real risk. 
This discussion has been closed.