I like the enthusiasm in this thread that people have, like writing that many wall of texts. While scrolling down it's like matrix movie scene thing.
True . The problematic with too long posts is, that readers will lost interest middle of essee and makes them to skip the rest or even skip the whole post. So i guess people should round up the texts little bit and make it more like synopsis. Also separating different topics to different post would help a lot.
They just added Permutation/Combination to the discussion, with side of marginal probability distrubition. If they continue and I accomplish to read eventually 'till midterms, I think I can finally pass my Statistics and Probability class. I hate that class.
Having 40+ skills means that you have
everything you need at your fingertips. That reduces challenge. You
increase challenge by reducing available tools. You have to plan more
strategically, both in advance and during combat, with limited abilities
than if you have a wide variety of abilities at your fingertips. Is
it more challenging to hang by a rope with 5 fingers or more challenging
to hang by a rope with 3 fingers? That's not rocket science.
If
you have 40+ skills on a hot-bar, really all you have to do is face-roll
and trigger all the abilities that aren't on cool-down. You don't have
to think at all. You get to spam-spam-spam...there will always be some abilities not on cool-down. It's
when you are limited to 10 abilities on the hot-bar that you have to be
more strategic about which abilities to use and when. And that is
compounded more in action combat when your opponents can move in and out
of range of you abilities. You can't simply activate Sniper's Eyes
every time it goes off of cooldown - you have to be strategic about
timing and placement on the field because you have to stay within that
AoE zone or lose the buff - and your opponent may very likely move out
of range of your attacks - especially if they see you're using Sniper's
Eyes.|
Having fewer tools is more challenging than having more tools. If
I have 15 tools, it's more likely that I will have the right tools for a
wide range of situations and I can easily choose the tool that fits the
situation than if I only have 3 tools. If I only have 3 tools, I have
to figure out how to improvise for not having the appropriate tools for a
specific situation. That is only logical. If I have a Phillips-head
screwdriver and a flat-head screwdriver, it's not challenging to figure
out which one to use for the appropriate situation. If I only have a
Phillips head and the screws are flat-head, dealing with those screws
are going to be more challenging than if I had both types of
screwdrivers. And dealing with those screws will probably be more
challenging if I only have a total 3 tools (sans flat-head) than if I
had 15 tools (sans flat-head). . . . Strategic choice
as in, I'm not going to use Fleeting Shot to Dash away from an opponent
until the situation occurs where I feel a need to dash away from my
opponent. I'm not going to use Sniper's Eye simply because it's off
cool-down - I'm going to first make sure I'm in a spot I'm not going to
leave for the duration of the effect... I'm going to wait to use it
until I feel like I can take full advantage of the ability - otherwise I
may only get off one shot and still have to wait for the cool-down
rather than getting off 4 shots and waiting for the cool-down.
Especially true if my target is already out of my range. I'm not going to use my Snare while the Mage already has my target encased within Ice Prison.
There
are way more options when you have a large pool of abilities at your
fingertips, but they aren't really strategic choices. If I have a
flat-head screwdriver among my 15 tools to deal with the flat-head
screws, I don't need to devise a strategy. I don't have to give much
thought about which tool to use. If I only have 3 tools and one of
them is not a flat-head screwdriver, I have to devise a strategy to deal
with those flat-head screws. And it's going to be more challenging to
devise a strategy with only 3 tools than it will be with 15 tools.
To distill your analogy a bit.....think of your hot bar as your working set of tools. Just like a repairman out on the job, you can't bring EVERY tool with you. They are all back at the workshop but you bring the tools you think you will need (and can carry with you) for that job. If you don't have something you can either improvise, do without or go home and get it (getting out of combat and redoing your bar).
I'm insure why this concept is so hard for people to grasp or accept.
Also......when you have everything at your disposal you are spending more time becoming the master of where every button is rather than actually playing the game. Most of us are not button pushing masters who can scroll through their 10 different menus and hit the correct key or have a special mouse that has 40 different abilities mapped to it. I commend those that can do that but this is not going to be one of those games so maybe AoC is not going to be the game for you.
@Dygz aight lets stop this, we're on a totaly diffrent wavelength once again.
@Ferryman I can't write small text's as Dygz twists every word i dont say into a mechanic that would be counter productive to my statement. So apparently my text is still way to short. Guess this time the main part was that he's thinking every extra skill would be a solution to a totaly new problem, which never was my intention at all, but one cant talk about way deeper mechanics if theres the need to talk about minoritys every time.
@Dolphin I just made use of one formula so it wouldnt be enough to pass your exam, but gl anyway
@PlagueMonk Its hard to accept, because there is a solution to get people that like small skillbars and people that like big skillbars into the boat. But guess your right this wont be the long term game for me, i never thought dev's would change their system depending on our discussion anyway. I will enjoy alpha and beta regardless.
@PlagueMonk Its hard to accept, because there is a solution to get people that like small skillbars and people that like big skillbars into the boat. But guess your right this wont be the long term game for me, i never thought dev's would change their system depending on our discussion anyway. I will enjoy alpha and beta regardless.
Unfortunately I don't think there is a single, universal solution. If there was however I would be all for it. The problem is, if they did add the ability to access every ability, then only those who are masters of button finding would be the best at the game, leaving the vast majority of people at the mediocre to good level. If gives that type of player an advantage.
I'm sure you would say that each person could use as many ability buttons/bars as they are comfortable with but it once more comes back to the fact that only those who are using all of their abilities at once are going to be the best. Those using less are effectively gimping themselves. I think the Devs see that and are trying to avoid it.
I believe we are all on the same wavelength and understand each other, we just want different things. I'm sure if IS was going the every ability route I would be bitching about it and wanting less
Hopefully you can come to terms with it and your experience testing will give you enough of an appreciation for the system that you stay for release
I'm insure why this concept is so hard for people to grasp or accept.
Maybe some people don't want "getting out of combat and redoing your bar" to be a thing, because they want builds to be more permanent. And then redoing your bar becomes "going to the next town and paying 5h worth of farming to your class trainer".
And under this premise, one should be able to make builds that are viable for all game modes, because you can't reskill multiple times per day. And in your words, this requires a bigger toolbox or skill bar.
I'm insure why this concept is so hard for people to grasp or accept.
Maybe some people don't want "getting out of combat and redoing your bar" to be a thing, because they want builds to be more permanent. And then redoing your bar becomes "going to the next town and paying 5h worth of farming to your class trainer".
And under this premise, one should be able to make builds that are viable for all game modes, because you can't reskill multiple times per day. And in your words, this requires a bigger toolbox or skill bar.
No one build should be viable for every situation; it takes away from strategic game-play as it makes it so you don't have to plan ahead because you will always have everything you possibly need on hand at all times (again which takes away from Intrepid's vision of strategic situational combat).
You won't have to pay to swap out skills on your skill bar and you won't need to go to a trainer to switch out abilities either. I'm not sure how redoing your bar constitutes going to your class trainer because class trainers just teach new skills (I am not entirely sure I understand what you mean by "reskill[ing] multiple times per day"). Just drag and drop skills from your skill book when you need to change up your build. But alas, some people do not want to have to switch out skills. The only way for that to work is for the skill bar to be big enough for you to have a skill for every situation available to you at the same time, which leads me back to the beginning of this comment.
You won't have to pay to swap out skills on your skill bar [...]
Is this confirmed? As far as I am concerned, the skills on the skill bar are part of your build, and from what I heard in the Q&As, they want your build to matter and not switch around nilly willy.
And yes, there are people that don't want to switch around skills and I'm one of them. I've done that in GW2 and I find it very annoying. Tag along a zerg in WvW, switch to zerg skills. Come near a keep, switch to siege skills. Volunteer to get some more supplies, switch to small group skills. Crossing a bridge, switch to knockbacks. For me, this type of "planning ahead" is very shallow, and mostly busywork.
The requirement to only be out of combat to switch skills is much to lax. In my experience, the risk of getting caught and nailed down with the wrong skill set is negligible.
You won't have to pay to swap out skills on your skill bar [...]
Is this confirmed? As far as I am concerned, the skills on the skill bar are part of your build, and from what I heard in the Q&As, they want your build to matter and not switch around nilly willy.
And yes, there are people that don't want to switch around skills and I'm one of them. I've done that in GW2 and I find it very annoying. Tag along a zerg in WvW, switch to zerg skills. Come near a keep, switch to siege skills. Volunteer to get some more supplies, switch to small group skills. Crossing a bridge, switch to knockbacks. For me, this type of "planning ahead" is very shallow, and mostly busywork.
The requirement to only be out of combat to switch skills is much to lax. In my experience, the risk of getting caught and nailed down with the wrong skill set is negligible.
It has been mentioned several times by the Devs. You can swap skills from your bar with skills in your skill book, while not in combat of course. They have said nothing to support the notion that we would have to pay to change out our active skills with our non-active skills. I never asked whether or not there were people who don't want to switch skills. I acknowledged that there are people with that preference, then explained why they may be disappointed because of the Devs' current game philosophy.
I would have voted for gazillions of active skills. I really don't like games that try to balance player power by arbitrarily limiting their number of active skills to something relatively small.
So here's another perspective to this rather circular conversation: why isn't it enough that Intrepid gives us different augments for skills, allows us to invest in them to give them different effects etc?
Why on top of that should Intrepid also limit the number of skills available?
When it comes to PvE, it doesn't provide more "build diversity" - theorycrafters are quick to determine which skills don't contribute enough to warrant a skill slot. After all, it's all about numbers and numbers don't lie.
In the end, you'll have people run the exact same builds & most of the "options" go unused.
In PvP, limiting the amount of skills you can have on your bar kills any situational skill & makes sure they're never ever used by anyone. It also kills any ability with long cooldown, or would force you to get out of combat & swap that ability out whenever it's on cooldown. It's not practical.
This has happened in every game I've played that limits you to 10-12 skills only.
You don't really get "more choices", you get the illusion of a choice
Also to people saying having less skills means more challenging combat: take a look at Blade&Soul (arguably the most skill based MMO out there) - you have dozens of different skills available to you at a time, different stances which swap your skills etc.
I don't think it's fair to say that less skills=more skill
So here's another perspective to this rather circular conversation: why isn't it enough that Intrepid gives us different augments for skills, allows us to invest in them to give them different effects etc?
Why on top of that should Intrepid also limit the number of skills available?
When it comes to PvE, it doesn't provide more "build diversity" - theorycrafters are quick to determine which skills don't contribute enough to warrant a skill slot. After all, it's all about numbers and numbers don't lie.
In the end, you'll have people run the exact same builds & most of the "options" go unused.
In PvP, limiting the amount of skills you can have on your bar kills any situational skill & makes sure they're never ever used by anyone. It also kills any ability with long cooldown, or would force you to get out of combat & swap that ability out whenever it's on cooldown. It's not practical.
This has happened in every game I've played that limits you to 10-12 skills only.
You don't really get "more choices", you get the illusion of a choice
Also to people saying having less skills means more challenging combat: take a look at Blade&Soul (arguably the most skill based MMO out there) - you have dozens of different skills available to you at a time, different stances which swap your skills etc.
I don't think it's fair to say that less skills=more skill
i agree with u 100%
hope they will increase the number from 12 to .. at least 20 : ) there would be still enough space for build variety
@PlagueMonk There doesn't need to be a fixed number of skills. You could build a talent tree in a way that lets you choose a kind of augment option for each skill they plan to create.
Till now, you could spend 12 points to select 12 abilitys. 1 point=1 ability. This could be changed to: you could spend 12 points to select 12 ability types. 1 point=choose between 3 sets of abilitys that look similar to the following example: You spend 1 point into the actual Fleeting Shot ability of the hunter. You now have 3 choices A,B,C: A: You get 1 ability: 1. jump backwards, 20 meter, 10 seconds cooldown.
If one of these spells get triggered, all of them get the cooldown: if you pick C and use jump nr. 3 you wont be abel to use jump nr.2 for 32 seconds.
Everything would need to be balanced ofc, so option C would only end up beeing ~3% better than option B and ~6% better than option A. And only if the player makes use of the extra choices perfectly.
With that system included into every skill, all players can decide how many skills they want to play with (between 12 and 36 atleast).
It doesnt have to be just about diffrent cooldowns and range, subject to change could be probably everything, dmg output, mana costs, cast times, duration, and whatever other things a skill might do.
@PlagueMonk There doesn't need to be a fixed number of skills. You could build a talent tree in a way that lets you choose a kind of augment option for each skill they plan to create.
Till now, you could spend 12 points to select 12 abilitys. 1 point=1 ability. This could be changed to: you could spend 12 points to select 12 ability types. 1 point=choose between 3 sets of abilitys that look similar to the following example: You spend 1 point into the actual Fleeting Shot ability of the hunter. You now have 3 choices A,B,C: A: You get 1 ability: 1. jump backwards, 20 meter, 10 seconds cooldown.
If one of these spells get triggered, all of them get the cooldown: if you pick C and use jump nr. 3 you wont be abel to use jump nr.2 for 32 seconds.
Everything would need to be balanced ofc, so option C would only end up beeing ~3% better than option B and ~6% better than option A. And only if the player makes use of the extra choices perfectly.
With that system included into every skill, all players can decide how many skills they want to play with (between 12 and 36 atleast).
It doesnt have to be just about diffrent cooldowns and range, subject to change could be probably everything, dmg output, mana costs, cast times, duration, and whatever other things a skill might do.
Um. WTH are you talking about??!!?? The talent trees are way more than 12 skills. And there are an extensive number of augments available - tons. With the design as is, players can already choose how many active skills they want on the hotbar - 10-23 at least. Based on what we know so far.
You get 3 abilitys: 1. jump backwards, 20 meter, 16 seconds cooldown, 2. jump backwards, 10 meter, 8 seconds cooldown, 3. jump backwards(+higher), 15 meter, 32 seconds cooldown. Those are not augments. And they're not the way augments work.
Augments are different abilities. Adding a self-heal or Invisibility which will also trigger with the primary ability of Shield Might. Such that triggering Shield Might also triggers the Invisibility augment. Both will be on the same cool-down.
A Tank/Tank could potentially augment Shield Might with Shield Might and increase the damage of that ability. Sure. Or the Tank/Tank could augment Shield Might with Hatred - and free up a slot on the hotbar might normally hold Hatred.
@Dygz Here we go again, this wasn't what im talking about AT ALL. ofc you will still be abel to put your 12 points into the 30? skills they're planning to implement anyway. Theyre just given another plateau into the tree. If i call it augments or blue apples doesnt matter at all. It is definitely compatible with their augment method and in no terms ment to replace it.
Indepth explanation: The system without my idea: you have 12 points. you choose 12 skills out of ~30 by spending 1 point. you will then be abel to augment your 12 choosen skills. .
The system with my idea: you have 12 points. you choose 12 pools (out of ~30 pools) of skills that contain a choice between 1, 2 or 3 skills that are more or less the same and reasonable balanced approximately as described above. you will then be abel to augment your x choosen skills. (x ∈ [12-36])
I'm saying there will be more than 30 skills. We have 30 points for skills; not just 30 skills. Augments are a whole different feature that includes a much larger set of effects and abilities. So what you call augments matters very much.
Your vision of how skills and augments work is misinformation. You keep trying to "fix" a system that you don't even understand.
I think Uao meant those to be three separate abilites, which all share a cooldown. You would use the one you think would work best at the moment, but it puts the rest on cool down so you can't just spam 3 backward jumps back to back.
Augments are already different abilities that share a slot on the hotbar which all share a cool-down, because they trigger at the same time. But they are literally different abilities rather than upgrades of the same ability.
@Dygz "I'm saying there will be more than 30 skills."
Yes maybe, the number isnt set and is going to be around 30 and 40 from what people know. thats why i wrote ~30 not 30.
"We have 30 points for skills; not just 30 skills."
If we'd regulary have 30 points in the way i used these measurement, we'd all have 30 skills. This is just wrong.
"Augments are a whole different feature that includes a much larger set of effects and abilities." Yes i'm aware of that, and it has its well defined and untouched place within my idea.
"So what you call augments matters very much." We can pretend i never mentioned augments in my 2. sentence of my initial idea, it wouldnt change any meanings. So no it doesnt matter. I just thought, a familar name that has a similar functionality would make it easier to understand. That why i said "kind of augment option" with focus on "kind of like the option part of augments".
Augments are already different abilities that share a slot on the hotbar which all share a cool-down, because they trigger at the same time. But they are literally different abilities rather than upgrades of the same ability.
From what i understood, augments enhance an ability and aren't seperate abilities in of themselves. They are more like the morphs in ESO.
They aren't separate abilities on the hot-bar. They also aren't full versions of the primary ability. Tank/Clerics can augment their primary abilities with Cleric heals - but they will be self-heals only. Tank/Rogue can augment their abilities with Invisibility.
The augments cannot be slotted on the hotbar by themselves and they won't be as strong as the primary versions of those abilities.
We can pretend I never mentioned augments in my 2. sentence of my initial idea, it wouldn't change any meanings. So no it doesn't matter.
Your idea is still completely unnecessary, counter to the devs' objectives and shows a poor understanding of the current design. Regardless of the terms you use.
16 is my cap thats a standard console controller and then sum when ya think about it. using sticks for camera and move, you are left with 16. (up-down-left-right on D-pad, L1&2, R1&2, A, B, X, Y, start, select, and each stick on click.) now for most games thats good enough and in some cases more buttons make it better such as weapon swapping in twitch FPS's. But when you start having over 2 rows of active skills and half are a once in a blue moon use I feel your really just making crap for the sake of making crap instead of improving on what you really have. also not saying I plan on using a controller for this game, but I would give it a try, just making the point most games start counting things as in excess when they run out of buttons to click. Even games that used the active skills around the WASD (ctrl,shift,tab,1,2,3,4,Q,E,R,Z,X) get annoying trying to hit 4, then tab, then ctrl, followed by X and not C, all in combo order all while trying to still move with WASD, its a crappy time and you just end up getting a mouse with extra buttons to program. Once again ignoring move and camera your under 16 buttons with that controller set up.
I have a question(s)...If we only have 30 skill points, and there are 30 skills will that mean we won't be able to obtain all 30 skills if we choose to put more than one skill point into a particular skill? So like we would not be able to use the skill we didn't slot a point into unless we reset our skill points? Is that actually a thing that has been confirmed?
16 is my cap thats a standard console controller and then sum when ya think about it. using sticks for camera and move, you are left with 16. (up-down-left-right on D-pad, L1&2, R1&2, A, B, X, Y, start, select, and each stick on click.) now for most games thats good enough and in some cases more buttons make it better such as weapon swapping in twitch FPS's. But when you start having over 2 rows of active skills and half are a once in a blue moon use I feel your really just making crap for the sake of making crap instead of improving on what you really have. also not saying I plan on using a controller for this game, but I would give it a try, just making the point most games start counting things as in excess when they run out of buttons to click. Even games that used the active skills around the WASD (ctrl,shift,tab,1,2,3,4,Q,E,R,Z,X) get annoying trying to hit 4, then tab, then ctrl, followed by X and not C, all in combo order all while trying to still move with WASD, its a crappy time and you just end up getting a mouse with extra buttons to program. Once again ignoring move and camera your under 16 buttons with that controller set up.
a controller ? for real ? i thought they try to make combat fast .. not like FF or Eso or any other Crap game out there.
Comments
Apparently people can't understand the shorter posts.
They just added Permutation/Combination to the discussion, with side of marginal probability distrubition. If they continue and I accomplish to read eventually 'till midterms, I think I can finally pass my Statistics and Probability class. I hate that class.
I'm insure why this concept is so hard for people to grasp or accept.
Also......when you have everything at your disposal you are spending more time becoming the master of where every button is rather than actually playing the game. Most of us are not button pushing masters who can scroll through their 10 different menus and hit the correct key or have a special mouse that has 40 different abilities mapped to it. I commend those that can do that but this is not going to be one of those games so maybe AoC is not going to be the game for you.
aight lets stop this, we're on a totaly diffrent wavelength once again.
@Ferryman
I can't write small text's as Dygz twists every word i dont say into a mechanic that would be counter productive to my statement. So apparently my text is still way to short.
Guess this time the main part was that he's thinking every extra skill would be a solution to a totaly new problem, which never was my intention at all, but one cant talk about way deeper mechanics if theres the need to talk about minoritys every time.
@Dolphin
I just made use of one formula so it wouldnt be enough to pass your exam, but gl anyway
@PlagueMonk
Its hard to accept, because there is a solution to get people that like small skillbars and people that like big skillbars into the boat.
But guess your right this wont be the long term game for me, i never thought dev's would change their system depending on our discussion anyway.
I will enjoy alpha and beta regardless.
I'm sure you would say that each person could use as many ability buttons/bars as they are comfortable with but it once more comes back to the fact that only those who are using all of their abilities at once are going to be the best. Those using less are effectively gimping themselves. I think the Devs see that and are trying to avoid it.
I believe we are all on the same wavelength and understand each other, we just want different things. I'm sure if IS was going the every ability route I would be bitching about it and wanting less
Hopefully you can come to terms with it and your experience testing will give you enough of an appreciation for the system that you stay for release
And under this premise, one should be able to make builds that are viable for all game modes, because you can't reskill multiple times per day. And in your words, this requires a bigger toolbox or skill bar.
No one build should be viable for every situation; it takes away from strategic game-play as it makes it so you don't have to plan ahead because you will always have everything you possibly need on hand at all times (again which takes away from Intrepid's vision of strategic situational combat).
You won't have to pay to swap out skills on your skill bar and you won't need to go to a trainer to switch out abilities either. I'm not sure how redoing your bar constitutes going to your class trainer because class trainers just teach new skills (I am not entirely sure I understand what you mean by "reskill[ing] multiple times per day"). Just drag and drop skills from your skill book when you need to change up your build. But alas, some people do not want to have to switch out skills. The only way for that to work is for the skill bar to be big enough for you to have a skill for every situation available to you at the same time, which leads me back to the beginning of this comment.
And yes, there are people that don't want to switch around skills and I'm one of them. I've done that in GW2 and I find it very annoying. Tag along a zerg in WvW, switch to zerg skills. Come near a keep, switch to siege skills. Volunteer to get some more supplies, switch to small group skills. Crossing a bridge, switch to knockbacks. For me, this type of "planning ahead" is very shallow, and mostly busywork.
The requirement to only be out of combat to switch skills is much to lax. In my experience, the risk of getting caught and nailed down with the wrong skill set is negligible.
I never asked whether or not there were people who don't want to switch skills. I acknowledged that there are people with that preference, then explained why they may be disappointed because of the Devs' current game philosophy.
Why on top of that should Intrepid also limit the number of skills available?
When it comes to PvE, it doesn't provide more "build diversity" - theorycrafters are quick to determine which skills don't contribute enough to warrant a skill slot. After all, it's all about numbers and numbers don't lie.
In the end, you'll have people run the exact same builds & most of the "options" go unused.
In PvP, limiting the amount of skills you can have on your bar kills any situational skill & makes sure they're never ever used by anyone.
It also kills any ability with long cooldown, or would force you to get out of combat & swap that ability out whenever it's on cooldown. It's not practical.
This has happened in every game I've played that limits you to 10-12 skills only.
You don't really get "more choices", you get the illusion of a choice
Also to people saying having less skills means more challenging combat: take a look at Blade&Soul (arguably the most skill based MMO out there) - you have dozens of different skills available to you at a time, different stances which swap your skills etc.
I don't think it's fair to say that less skills=more skill
hope they will increase the number from 12 to .. at least 20 : )
there would be still enough space for build variety
There doesn't need to be a fixed number of skills.
You could build a talent tree in a way that lets you choose a kind of augment option for each skill they plan to create.
Till now, you could spend 12 points to select 12 abilitys.
1 point=1 ability.
This could be changed to: you could spend 12 points to select 12 ability types.
1 point=choose between 3 sets of abilitys that look similar to the following example:
You spend 1 point into the actual Fleeting Shot ability of the hunter.
You now have 3 choices A,B,C:
A: You get 1 ability: 1. jump backwards, 20 meter, 10 seconds cooldown.
B: You get 2 abilitys: 1. jump backwards, 20 meter, 14 seconds cooldown,
2. jump backwards, 10 meter, 7 seconds cooldown.
C: You get 3 abilitys: 1. jump backwards, 20 meter, 16 seconds cooldown,
2. jump backwards, 10 meter, 8 seconds cooldown,
3. jump backwards(+higher), 15 meter, 32 seconds cooldown.
If one of these spells get triggered, all of them get the cooldown:
if you pick C and use jump nr. 3 you wont be abel to use jump nr.2 for 32 seconds.
Everything would need to be balanced ofc, so option C would only end up beeing ~3% better than option B and ~6% better than option A. And only if the player makes use of the extra choices perfectly.
With that system included into every skill, all players can decide how many skills they want to play with (between 12 and 36 atleast).
It doesnt have to be just about diffrent cooldowns and range, subject to change could be probably everything, dmg output, mana costs, cast times, duration, and whatever other things a skill might do.
The talent trees are way more than 12 skills.
And there are an extensive number of augments available - tons.
With the design as is, players can already choose how many active skills they want on the hotbar - 10-23 at least.
Based on what we know so far.
You get 3 abilitys: 1. jump backwards, 20 meter, 16 seconds cooldown,
2. jump backwards, 10 meter, 8 seconds cooldown,
3. jump backwards(+higher), 15 meter, 32 seconds cooldown.
Those are not augments. And they're not the way augments work.
Augments are different abilities.
Adding a self-heal or Invisibility which will also trigger with the primary ability of Shield Might.
Such that triggering Shield Might also triggers the Invisibility augment. Both will be on the same cool-down.
A Tank/Tank could potentially augment Shield Might with Shield Might and increase the damage of that ability. Sure.
Or the Tank/Tank could augment Shield Might with Hatred - and free up a slot on the hotbar might normally hold Hatred.
Here we go again, this wasn't what im talking about AT ALL.
ofc you will still be abel to put your 12 points into the 30? skills they're planning to implement anyway. Theyre just given another plateau into the tree.
If i call it augments or blue apples doesnt matter at all.
It is definitely compatible with their augment method and in no terms ment to replace it.
The system without my idea:
you have 12 points.
you choose 12 skills out of ~30 by spending 1 point.
you will then be abel to augment your 12 choosen skills.
.
The system with my idea:
you have 12 points.
you choose 12 pools (out of ~30 pools) of skills that contain a choice between 1, 2 or 3 skills that are more or less the same and reasonable balanced approximately as described above.
you will then be abel to augment your x choosen skills. (x ∈ [12-36])
We have 30 points for skills; not just 30 skills.
Augments are a whole different feature that includes a much larger set of effects and abilities. So what you call augments matters very much.
Your vision of how skills and augments work is misinformation.
You keep trying to "fix" a system that you don't even understand.
But they are literally different abilities rather than upgrades of the same ability.
"I'm saying there will be more than 30 skills."
Yes maybe, the number isnt set and is going to be around 30 and 40 from what people know. thats why i wrote ~30 not 30.
"We have 30 points for skills; not just 30 skills."
If we'd regulary have 30 points in the way i used these measurement, we'd all have 30 skills. This is just wrong.
"Augments are a whole different feature that includes a much larger set of effects and abilities."
Yes i'm aware of that, and it has its well defined and untouched place within my idea.
"So what you call augments matters very much."
We can pretend i never mentioned augments in my 2. sentence of my initial idea, it wouldnt change any meanings. So no it doesnt matter.
I just thought, a familar name that has a similar functionality would make it easier to understand. That why i said "kind of augment option" with focus on "kind of like the option part of augments".
I dont want to talk with you anymore.
From what i understood, augments enhance an ability and aren't seperate abilities in of themselves. They are more like the morphs in ESO.
They also aren't full versions of the primary ability.
Tank/Clerics can augment their primary abilities with Cleric heals - but they will be self-heals only.
Tank/Rogue can augment their abilities with Invisibility.
The augments cannot be slotted on the hotbar by themselves and they won't be as strong as the primary versions of those abilities.
We will have 30 points for skills. Skill trees will be way larger than 30 skills.
The way you are using these measurements is just wrong. That is exactly my point. Yes.
Your idea is still completely unnecessary, counter to the devs' objectives and shows a poor understanding of the current design.
Regardless of the terms you use.
(up-down-left-right on D-pad, L1&2, R1&2, A, B, X, Y, start, select, and each stick on click.)
now for most games thats good enough and in some cases more buttons make it better such as weapon swapping in twitch FPS's.
But when you start having over 2 rows of active skills and half are a once in a blue moon use I feel your really just making crap for the sake of making crap instead of improving on what you really have.
also not saying I plan on using a controller for this game, but I would give it a try, just making the point most games start counting things as in excess when they run out of buttons to click.
Even games that used the active skills around the WASD (ctrl,shift,tab,1,2,3,4,Q,E,R,Z,X) get annoying trying to hit 4, then tab, then ctrl, followed by X and not C, all in combo order all while trying to still move with WASD, its a crappy time and you just end up getting a mouse with extra buttons to program. Once again ignoring move and camera your under 16 buttons with that controller set up.
i thought they try to make combat fast .. not like FF or Eso or any other Crap game out there.