@juschmaster In terms of combat speed, the only thing we have from the devs is Jeffery stating they are wanting it to be faster than wow, but not as fast as BDO. That is a pretty large range, so we really don't know at this point.
@juschmaster In terms of combat speed, the only thing we have from the devs is Jeffery stating they are wanting it to be faster than wow, but not as fast as BDO. That is a pretty large range, so we really don't know at this point.
do u think u can compete with somebody in wow´s arena .,... with a controller ?
@juschmaster In terms of combat speed, the only thing we have from the devs is Jeffery stating they are wanting it to be faster than wow, but not as fast as BDO. That is a pretty large range, so we really don't know at this point.
do u think u can compete with somebody in wow´s arena .,... with a controller ?
I don't know. I am not sure if you are asking me that and if you are asking me, why?
I have a question(s)...If we only have 30 skill points, and there are 30 skills will that mean we won't be able to obtain all 30 skills if we choose to put more than one skill point into a particular skill? So like we would not be able to use the skill we didn't slot a point into unless we reset our skill points? Is that actually a thing that has been confirmed?
Each class will have more than 30 skills and we will not be able to get every skill in the class. Choices matter. We will be able to build a spec that concentrates on tab-target abilities.
We will be able to build a spec that concentrates on action abilities.
We will be able to build a spec that concentrates on Focus abilities.
That's why they are called talent trees - because they branch... and we follow those branches - rather than eventually gaining every ability in the class.
I have a question(s)...If we only have 30 skill points, and there are 30 skills will that mean we won't be able to obtain all 30 skills if we choose to put more than one skill point into a particular skill? So like we would not be able to use the skill we didn't slot a point into unless we reset our skill points? Is that actually a thing that has been confirmed?
Each class will have more than 30 skills and we will not be able to get every skill in the class. Choices matter. We will be able to build a spec that concentrates on tab-target abilities.
We will be able to build a spec that concentrates on action abilities.
We will be able to build a spec that concentrates on Focus abilities.
That's why they are called talent trees - because they branch... and we follow those branches - rather than eventually gaining every ability in the class.
I know that we have are limited to the build we have currently equipped during combat, but I was under the inpression that we would be able to swap out skills from our skillbook when we were out of combat.
Yep. Because the hotbar only has 10 slots - and Slot #1 is for the weapon. So, once we have more than 10 skills, we will be able to swap whatever we have in slots 2-10 if we're not in combat.
I would call skills we've purchased in the skill-book our build. Build is not what we have slotted on the hotbar. Hot-bar is simply what we have equipped - which is different than the build.
We don't have confirmation that we won't have a second skillbar (aka F1 to F12, or as in some games. Shift+1 to Shift+0).
It is to assume that we will have such a second skill bar, so if a players "skill" is high enough, he may use both skill bars efficiently and more than 10 active skills at once.
@PlagueMonk There doesn't need to be a fixed number of skills. You could build a talent tree in a way that lets you choose a kind of augment option for each skill they plan to create.
Till now, you could spend 12 points to select 12 abilitys. 1 point=1 ability. This could be changed to: you could spend 12 points to select 12 ability types. 1 point=choose between 3 sets of abilitys that look similar to the following example: You spend 1 point into the actual Fleeting Shot ability of the hunter. You now have 3 choices A,B,C: A: You get 1 ability: 1. jump backwards, 20 meter, 10 seconds cooldown.
If one of these spells get triggered, all of them get the cooldown: if you pick C and use jump nr. 3 you wont be abel to use jump nr.2 for 32 seconds.
Everything would need to be balanced ofc, so option C would only end up beeing ~3% better than option B and ~6% better than option A. And only if the player makes use of the extra choices perfectly.
With that system included into every skill, all players can decide how many skills they want to play with (between 12 and 36 atleast).
It doesnt have to be just about diffrent cooldowns and range, subject to change could be probably everything, dmg output, mana costs, cast times, duration, and whatever other things a skill might do.
While that's all pretty and interesting, I admit I'm struggling to apply that to anything I have said. Are you responding to my assertion that not using all your abilities while others do gimps you? Because you are theorycrafting while I am just stating a simple fact. In general, we are all going to end up with the same number of skills to choose from. Even using your system EVERYONE will have those choices and most will make similar decisions (that being a mix, not necessarily the same exact skills).However, it's probably best to stay with what we do know about the game's mechanics. Theorycrafting and attempting to pit the two extremes against one another is never a good way to prove a point.
Too few is good for the casuals that don't really care, but making game too easy is never healthy if there is any form of competition. There is multiple games that are good examples of this. Personally I'm not going to care for pvp too much, but when I do, I would like that person to win who has higher skill level playing that character. 2 situations should always be met, and again, there is tons of games which fail in these, and so does their pvp. 1. Gear has to matter, to some degree, preferably around 70% gear, 30% skill, or ppl just don't care to find gear/play the game. This is the area which I find BDO being one of the best games in the market. When gear is equal, there is only skill and gearing choices. 2. There needs to be a way for casual to succeed to in some level, but more knowledgeable player should easily stomp in equal gear. There has to be a carrot, and high skill ceiling. Both have to exist, or the casual and the pro do not care in the long run.
I dont think we will need alot of abilities on our bar, i think they plan to give us more than we can use to choose from. Also we will be able to customize each skill with their modd system.
@PlagueMonk It's just a glimpse of how a system that has a universal solution could look like. You doubted it would exist, here it is. I dont think that everyone is going to make similar decisions, by looking into the discussion one can easily tell that there is a huge variety of favored play styles. And the idea is to balance big and narrow actionbars in a way that makes them approximately equal with a narrow increased amount of risk/reward on the bigger actionbars due to greater effort. This idea is generaly compatible with any kind of ability pool based game. Also it isnt meant to reduce FotM builds, the game needs other mechanics for that. It is really just to give players a choice to choose the amount of buttons they want to press.
The people that are true masters of button pushing will always outplay the others even if theres only one button
Gear has to matter, to some degree, preferably around 70% gear, 30% skill, or ppl just don't care to find gear/play the game. This is the area which I find BDO being one of the best games in the market. When gear is equal, there is only skill and gearing choices.
It's an RPG, so really it's character build + gear that should be 70% and player skill 30%. Weapon choice is going to be significant since that can influence 25% of your active abilities.
We do have confirmation that it's just 10 slots on the hot-bar and we won't have a second hot-bar.
The design already includes us having more than 10 active skills available, once we start adding augments and using advanced weapons.
ITS PRE ALPHA ... if the community shouts out their wish for more skills or even a second hot bar , they might change something ! every additional active skill would make a difference !
@juschmaster In terms of combat speed, the only thing we have from the devs is Jeffery stating they are wanting it to be faster than wow, but not as fast as BDO. That is a pretty large range, so we really don't know at this point.
do u think u can compete with somebody in wow´s arena .,... with a controller ?
I don't know. I am not sure if you are asking me that and if you are asking me, why?
The combat speed for Ashes is intended to be faster than WoW and slower than BDO.
I dunno why controller v keyboard would make any difference to combat speed.
u are slower with a controller ! it depends on reaction time in FF and ESO combat is slow because they want to give controller gamer a chance to compete
I'm all for 30+ active skills with a hotbar limit of 5 to 10. I would like to see passive skills added based on your primary class with a limit of three per primary class. For example: a ranger would always have a boost to perception/tracking and that boost increases with level...IMHO
ITS PRE ALPHA ... if the community shouts out their wish for more skills or even a second hot bar , they might change something ! every additional active skill would make a difference !
OK. You believe that if you want to and we will check back at launch to see if we have multiple hot-bars, 40+ separate active skills, have scrapped their combo mechanic and allow button-mashing.
I have never said the devs won't change something. Nor have I said they won't change anything due to player feedback.
ITS PRE ALPHA ... if the community shouts out their wish for more skills or even a second hot bar , they might change something ! every additional active skill would make a difference !
OK. You believe that if you want to and we will check back at launch to see if we have multiple hot-bars, 40+ separate active skills, have scrapped their combo mechanic and allow button-mashing.
I have never said the devs won't change something. Nor have I said they won't change anything due to player feedback.
?? no ? they wont change the whole game ... im talking about 4-10 more useable skills !!!! I just said if the community wants more skills .. maybe inteprid will make a compromise and add A FEW SLOTS . OR MAYBE even a whole hotbar ?
juschmaster said: u are slower with a controller ! it depends on reaction time in FF and ESO combat is slow because they want to give controller gamer a chance to compete.
Some people are slower with a keyboard. Depends on the player's reaction time as it relates to the control layout of the specific game. I would have preferred to play the PAX demo with a controller because their keyboard controls sucked - and I'm not sure mapping differently would have fixed that. Regardless of the controller, the Ashes devs want combat speed to be between WoW and BDO.
Pantheon devs want their combat to be slow like vanilla EQ1. I would bet that FF and ESO combat is "slow" because they are RPGs rather than MOBAs or FPSs.
Also, with the PAX demo, button-mashing isn't really a thing. How quickly someone could spam buttons was not as important as choosing when a specific ability best suited the moment-to-moment situation.
How about we all take a breath and think about what we know so far. The fact that the alpha is not out yet means nothing is set in stone, so anything we have seen at pax or on streams is still at best pre-alpha gameplay. The best we can do is ask questions and make our options on that instead of arguing with each other on what you want. In the end, its intrepid game and what they decide may be different from what you want but that does not take away from the game being fun.
juschmaster said: u are slower with a controller ! it depends on reaction time in FF and ESO combat is slow because they want to give controller gamer a chance to compete.
Some people are slower with a keyboard. Depends on the player's reaction time as it relates to the control layout of the specific game. I would have preferred to play the PAX demo with a controller because their keyboard controls sucked - and I'm not sure mapping differently would have fixed that. Regardless of the controller, the Ashes devs want combat speed to be between WoW and BDO.
Pantheon devs want their combat to be slow like vanilla EQ1. I would bet that FF and ESO combat is "slow" because they are RPGs rather than MOBAs or FPSs.
Also, with the PAX demo, button-mashing isn't really a thing. How quickly someone could spam buttons was not as important as choosing when a specific ability best suited the moment-to-moment situation.
People who are slow with a keyboard are slower with a controller ( IF NOT USED TO IT ) a skilled "keyboarder" will always beat a skilled "Controller" .. thats why the "pros" are playing with mouse and keyboard!
CHoosing the right ability is a MUST. independently of the amount of available skills !
How about we all take a breath and think about what we know so far. The fact that the alpha is not out yet means nothing is set in stone, so anything we have seen at pax or on streams is still at best pre-alpha gameplay. The best we can do is ask questions and make our options on that instead of arguing with each other on what you want. In the end, its intrepid game and what they decide may be different from what you want but that does not take away from the game being fun.
Yes u are right ! BUT - they always said , they NEED Feedback ... example :If the community think ASHES COMBAT sucks - they would try to change it ! they try to listen to the community !
How about we all take a breath and think about what we know so far. The fact that the alpha is not out yet means nothing is set in stone, so anything we have seen at pax or on streams is still at best pre-alpha gameplay. The best we can do is ask questions and make our options on that instead of arguing with each other on what you want. In the end, its intrepid game and what they decide may be different from what you want but that does not take away from the game being fun.
Yes u are right ! BUT - they always said , they NEED Feedback ... example :If the community think ASHES COMBAT sucks - they would try to change it ! they try to listen to the community !
I agree that feedback is a great way of improving games. I love giving feedback but we are getting nowhere is we keep shout at each other and saying other peoples opinions are wrong. We should take on board what is said and then come up with an idea which we all like or at least 80% of us that way the game become better and not an 8-page fight about why having 20 skills is better than having 30
People who are slow with a keyboard are slower with a controller ( IF NOT USED TO IT ) a skilled "keyboarder" will always beat a skilled "Controller" .. thats why the "pros" are playing with mouse and keyboard!
Choosing the right ability is a MUST. independently of the amount of available skills !
That qualifier is absurd. People who prefer controllers will be faster with controllers than they are with keyboards. Who gives a crap about what pros do?? MMORPGs aren't designed primarily for pros.
How well a person performs, controller v keyboard, will depend on each individual player.
im talking about 4-10 more useable skills !!!! I just said if the community wants more skills .. maybe inteprid will make a compromise and add A FEW SLOTS . OR MAYBE even a whole hotbar ?
I'm saying: The devs are highly unlikely to accomplish adding more useable skills by adding slots on the hot-bar or adding another hot-bar. Rather, they will would add 4-10 more skills by adding extra ability slots on advanced weapons and/or by increasing the number of augments that can be added to a primary skill. And/or by allowing us to weapon swap during combat relatively freely.
But, you can believe the devs will add more slots to the hot-bar or an additional hot-bar if you wish. We can only wait and see what they actually end up doing.
People who are slow with a keyboard are slower with a controller ( IF NOT USED TO IT ) a skilled "keyboarder" will always beat a skilled "Controller" .. thats why the "pros" are playing with mouse and keyboard!
Choosing the right ability is a MUST. independently of the amount of available skills !
That qualifier is absurd. People who prefer controllers will be faster with controllers than they are with keyboards. Who gives a crap about what pros do?? MMORPGs aren't designed primarily for pros.
How well a person performs, controller v keyboard, will depend on each individual player.
For real ? are u srs ? there will be no contoller on top ....!? skill cap will be always higher with keyboard and mouse... JUST FACT ! wtf are u talking about ?
WTF are you talking about? You act like the majority of MMORPG care about being at the skill cap for PvP. The majority of MMORPG players don't care about that - especially not where it concerns controller v keyboard. It's lonely at the top.
WTF are you talking about? You act like the majority of MMORPG care about being at the skill cap for PvP. The majority of MMORPG players don't care about that - especially not where it concerns controller v keyboard. It's lonely at the top.
WTF ARE U TALKING ABOUT ? THe majority of pvp players may care about a potential skill cap .. are u a controller care bear ?`why making so much drama ?
You are the one making DRAMA. I play MMORPGs with a keyboard, but the Ashes combat controls has me thinking of playing Ashes with a controller. You are free to live in your bubble. lmao
Comments
I don't know.
I am not sure if you are asking me that and if you are asking me, why?
I dunno why controller v keyboard would make any difference to combat speed.
Choices matter.
We will be able to build a spec that concentrates on tab-target abilities.
We will be able to build a spec that concentrates on action abilities.
We will be able to build a spec that concentrates on Focus abilities.
That's why they are called talent trees - because they branch... and we follow those branches - rather than eventually gaining every ability in the class.
So, once we have more than 10 skills, we will be able to swap whatever we have in slots 2-10 if we're not in combat.
I would call skills we've purchased in the skill-book our build.
Build is not what we have slotted on the hotbar.
Hot-bar is simply what we have equipped - which is different than the build.
It is to assume that we will have such a second skill bar, so if a players "skill" is high enough, he may use both skill bars efficiently and more than 10 active skills at once.
The design already includes us having more than 10 active skills available, once we start adding augments and using advanced weapons.
2 situations should always be met, and again, there is tons of games which fail in these, and so does their pvp.
1. Gear has to matter, to some degree, preferably around 70% gear, 30% skill, or ppl just don't care to find gear/play the game. This is the area which I find BDO being one of the best games in the market. When gear is equal, there is only skill and gearing choices.
2. There needs to be a way for casual to succeed to in some level, but more knowledgeable player should easily stomp in equal gear. There has to be a carrot, and high skill ceiling. Both have to exist, or the casual and the pro do not care in the long run.
It's just a glimpse of how a system that has a universal solution could look like.
You doubted it would exist, here it is.
I dont think that everyone is going to make similar decisions, by looking into the discussion one can easily tell that there is a huge variety of favored play styles.
And the idea is to balance big and narrow actionbars in a way that makes them approximately equal with a narrow increased amount of risk/reward on the bigger actionbars due to greater effort.
This idea is generaly compatible with any kind of ability pool based game.
Also it isnt meant to reduce FotM builds, the game needs other mechanics for that.
It is really just to give players a choice to choose the amount of buttons they want to press.
The people that are true masters of button pushing will always outplay the others even if theres only one button
Weapon choice is going to be significant since that can influence 25% of your active abilities.
if the community shouts out their wish for more skills or even a second hot bar , they might change something !
every additional active skill would make a difference !
u are slower with a controller ! it depends on reaction time
in FF and ESO combat is slow because they want to give controller gamer a chance to compete
I have never said the devs won't change something. Nor have I said they won't change anything due to player feedback.
im talking about 4-10 more useable skills !!!!
I just said if the community wants more skills .. maybe inteprid will make a compromise and add A FEW SLOTS . OR MAYBE even a whole hotbar ?
Depends on the player's reaction time as it relates to the control layout of the specific game.
I would have preferred to play the PAX demo with a controller because their keyboard controls sucked - and I'm not sure mapping differently would have fixed that.
Regardless of the controller, the Ashes devs want combat speed to be between WoW and BDO.
Pantheon devs want their combat to be slow like vanilla EQ1.
I would bet that FF and ESO combat is "slow" because they are RPGs rather than MOBAs or FPSs.
Also, with the PAX demo, button-mashing isn't really a thing. How quickly someone could spam buttons was not as important as choosing when a specific ability best suited the moment-to-moment situation.
CHoosing the right ability is a MUST. independently of the amount of available skills !
BUT
they try to listen to the community !
People who prefer controllers will be faster with controllers than they are with keyboards.
Who gives a crap about what pros do?? MMORPGs aren't designed primarily for pros.
How well a person performs, controller v keyboard, will depend on each individual player.
The devs are highly unlikely to accomplish adding more useable skills by adding slots on the hot-bar or adding another hot-bar.
Rather, they will would add 4-10 more skills by adding extra ability slots on advanced weapons and/or by increasing the number of augments that can be added to a primary skill. And/or by allowing us to weapon swap during combat relatively freely.
But, you can believe the devs will add more slots to the hot-bar or an additional hot-bar if you wish.
We can only wait and see what they actually end up doing.
there will be no contoller on top ....!?
skill cap will be always higher with keyboard and mouse... JUST FACT !
wtf are u talking about ?
You act like the majority of MMORPG care about being at the skill cap for PvP.
The majority of MMORPG players don't care about that - especially not where it concerns controller v keyboard.
It's lonely at the top.
THe majority of pvp players may care about a potential skill cap ..
are u a controller care bear ?`why making so much drama ?
I play MMORPGs with a keyboard, but the Ashes combat controls has me thinking of playing Ashes with a controller.
You are free to live in your bubble.
lmao