Microtransactions

ArchivedUser

I don't mind microtransactions within the framework that they have repeatedly announced. 

If i can buy everything in the shop in the game,  using in-game currency, then I'm completely fine with any amount of cosmetic item microtransactions. 

ArchivedUser

The only thing I worry about is that if people are making  "Cosmetic" items for micro transactions, then they aren't working on in game content, for which we are paying for. So instead of having a lovely "decked" out world celebrating Halloween, all we get are costumes we can buy for cash, to make it feel like Halloween etc.

At the end of the day it's simple, if you have 10 designers and 2 of them are working on micro transactions, then thats 2 less woking on paid content.  The only way it would work is if you hire a designer to specifically to work on micro transactions and his salary is directly linked to those sales, not farming his wage from subs.

ArchivedUser

Personally I like an option of both.
In game obtainable cosmetics should be updated as frequently as cash shop cosmetics. 
I find the problem with current games is that cosmetics are only updated via the shop and not elsewhere.

imo I'm paying a sub to play the game and updates in game content/progression. Any alternative cosmetics /mugs/T-shirts etc I don't expect to be part of my sub.

I also like how the referral system works- so if a cosmetic item pops up in the shop and i wants it I can use referral payments to reduce the price.

ArchivedUser

After giving $500 to them what's another £200 ^^

ArchivedUser

FliP said:

Yes, you should get all the content, you paid for it. However, all the cosmetics? If everyone had everything just because "I paid for it, I have the right to get it, now!!" what would be the point in cosmetics then? Everyone would look the same, again, because everyone has access to the same cosmetic items and will follow a meta that looks "cool".

Your logic is heavily wrong. You just basically said "there will be only one/very few cosmetic items", which would be ****.
Idc how can anyone even think that players not look the same, cause they need to pay to get cosmetic. I guess ppls are that dumb nowdays....

LMAO the game company's are so greedy nowdays. The game aren't even released yet, but they already sell the cosmetics on a game, which have a continuous cost as a monthly base.
That's pure greed nothing else.
Some greedy company started to put microtransactions into a game which already cost money, and nowdays we are at a point where some company put microtransactions into a single player game.(not this game)
Well, that happens when someone doesn't know how to create a good game, so they instead milk the smaller player base with microtransactions to get profit.

Cosmetic microtransactions are ok in a 100% free game.
It's somewhat ok in a low cost game(<30$).
It's not ok in a full pierce game.
And it definetly not ok in a game which charges you every month.

But well, peoples are greedy, and the dumb peoples getting exploited, that's how the world works.

ArchivedUser

MADE said:

FliP said:

Yes, you should get all the content, you paid for it. However, all the cosmetics? If everyone had everything just because "I paid for it, I have the right to get it, now!!" what would be the point in cosmetics then? Everyone would look the same, again, because everyone has access to the same cosmetic items and will follow a meta that looks "cool".

Your logic is heavily wrong. You just basically said "there will be only one/very few cosmetic items", which would be ****.
Idc how can anyone even think that players not look the same, cause they need to pay to get cosmetic. I guess ppls are that dumb nowdays....

LMAO the game company's are so greedy nowdays. The game aren't even released yet, but they already sell the cosmetics on a game, which have a continuous cost as a monthly base.
That's pure greed nothing else.
Some greedy company started to put microtransactions into a game which already cost money, and nowdays we are at a point where some company put microtransactions into a single player game.(not this game)
Well, that happens when someone doesn't know how to create a good game, so they instead milk the smaller player base with microtransactions to get profit.

Cosmetic microtransactions are ok in a 100% free game.
It's somewhat ok in a low cost game(<30$).
It's not ok in a full pierce game.
And it definetly not ok in a game which charges you every month.

But well, peoples are greedy, and the dumb peoples getting exploited, that's how the world works.

No one is forcing you to buy the items and if other people what to spend their money on the game what's to say they cant?

ArchivedUser

MADE said:

FliP said:

Yes, you should get all the content, you paid for it. However, all the cosmetics? If everyone had everything just because "I paid for it, I have the right to get it, now!!" what would be the point in cosmetics then? Everyone would look the same, again, because everyone has access to the same cosmetic items and will follow a meta that looks "cool".

Your logic is heavily wrong. You just basically said "there will be only one/very few cosmetic items", which would be ****.
Idc how can anyone even think that players not look the same, cause they need to pay to get cosmetic. I guess ppls are that dumb nowdays....

LMAO the game company's are so greedy nowdays. The game aren't even released yet, but they already sell the cosmetics on a game, which have a continuous cost as a monthly base.
That's pure greed nothing else.
Some greedy company started to put microtransactions into a game which already cost money, and nowdays we are at a point where some company put microtransactions into a single player game.(not this game)
Well, that happens when someone doesn't know how to create a good game, so they instead milk the smaller player base with microtransactions to get profit.

Cosmetic microtransactions are ok in a 100% free game.
It's somewhat ok in a low cost game(<30$).
It's not ok in a full pierce game.
And it definetly not ok in a game which charges you every month.

But well, peoples are greedy, and the dumb peoples getting exploited, that's how the world works.

Costumes are not Pokemon: You don't need to catch them all.

ArchivedUser

FliP said:

MADE said:

FliP said:

Yes, you should get all the content, you paid for it. However, all the cosmetics? If everyone had everything just because "I paid for it, I have the right to get it, now!!" what would be the point in cosmetics then? Everyone would look the same, again, because everyone has access to the same cosmetic items and will follow a meta that looks "cool".

Your logic is heavily wrong. You just basically said "there will be only one/very few cosmetic items", which would be ****.
Idc how can anyone even think that players not look the same, cause they need to pay to get cosmetic. I guess ppls are that dumb nowdays....

LMAO the game company's are so greedy nowdays. The game aren't even released yet, but they already sell the cosmetics on a game, which have a continuous cost as a monthly base.
That's pure greed nothing else.
Some greedy company started to put microtransactions into a game which already cost money, and nowdays we are at a point where some company put microtransactions into a single player game.(not this game)
Well, that happens when someone doesn't know how to create a good game, so they instead milk the smaller player base with microtransactions to get profit.

Cosmetic microtransactions are ok in a 100% free game.
It's somewhat ok in a low cost game(<30$).
It's not ok in a full pierce game.
And it definetly not ok in a game which charges you every month.

But well, peoples are greedy, and the dumb peoples getting exploited, that's how the world works.

Costumes are not Pokemon: You don't need to catch them all.

the same could be said about loot but we still do it anyway ^^

ArchivedUser

nagash said:

No one is forcing you to buy the items and if other people what to spend their money on the game what's to say they cant?

I must disagree with this statement in its generalized form (because generalized form of this statement would include P2W items as well).

However, when pure cosmetics are in question, I agree. Specially since there will be cosmetics also available as drops in game, and you don't have to pay for cosmetics if you don't want to. You can just play and get some.

ArchivedUser

Gothix said:

nagash said:

No one is forcing you to buy the items and if other people what to spend their money on the game what's to say they cant?

I must disagree with this statement in its generalized form (because generalized form of this statement would include P2W items as well).

However, when pure cosmetics are in question, I agree. Specially since there will be cosmetics also available as drops in game, and you don't have to pay for cosmetics if you don't want to. You can just play and get some.

so you are saying that someone is forcing you to buy items from the shop?

ArchivedUser

nagash said:
so you are saying that someone is forcing you to buy items from the shop?

I'm saying that by the existence of P2W items in the shop, someone (developer) is forcing me to leave the game.

Because P2W games aren't my kind of thing.

For cosmetic items in shop, I have no problem at all.

ArchivedUser

mazh said:

Any news about the microtransactions?

I'm really waiting for it. I'm not paying a monthly fee for a game to then be asked for more money for it's content even if it's only skins and cosmetics.
Damm make the box cost money + monthly fee, I find it more fair then microtransactions in a monthly fee game.

That's free games economy, not tag priced ones and absolutely not the subscription based games... just thinking about it makes me laugh... and vomit

There will be no box fee, game itself is free to download, only subscription will cost.
It's your choice if you want to buy cosmetics or not thought, just as it is other people's choice if they want to spend money on in game credits for cosmetics store.
There will be both cosmetics you can find in game, as well as some you can only buy with real life currency. 

mazh said:
This is just money grabbing vampire schemes. It's sad and obvious.

People love cosmetics, I don't see what's so wrong about having an option to buy it for people who want to. If people want to support the creators by buying cosmetics that's not really a problem for anyone. 

ArchivedUser

So here's the way I see it.

You are paying a monthly membership fee to have access to a bar/club. Say that fee is $15 a month. Now in that membership, it gives you 2 free drinks a night. You can go in, enjoy your 2 drinks, dance, hang out, play pub games, use the hot tub, ect... All you want. But you want a third drink? Then that's going to cost extra.

Do you need a 3rd drink to enjoy the dance floor?

Probably 90% of you do actually... But I digress.

The club can't just give infinate free drinks though without losing money. You lose money, you can't hire a DJ. No DJ, no dancing. No dancing, no women. No women, then your bar is just filled with guys who were going to just there to buy booze anyway. You haven't grown a customer base, and your club fails.

The point being Intrepid is a business, not a charity. You get full access to the game for $15 a month. There will be cosmetics attainable in the game, so there's your 2 free drinks. But anything extra is "buffet" style and not required to play for any reason other than vanity.

But like every other business in the world, you have to pay for extra. Any place that offers "free refills" or "free topping" is just upping the price of their base product and banking the money they make when people don't take advantage of the "free extras".

Would you rather your base price be higher so you can pay for someone else's cosmetics? Do you want to pay for cosmetics you don't even want? Should everyone else pay for your cosmetics?

Because if you like that business model, go work for cable TV, and charge me $120 a month for the 4 channels I watch and the 106 that I don't.

ArchivedUser

Karthos said:

So here's the way I see it.

You are paying a monthly membership fee to have access to a bar/club. Say that fee is $15 a month. Now in that membership, it gives you 2 free drinks a night. You can go in, enjoy your 2 drinks, dance, hang out, play pub games, use the hot tub, ect... All you want. But you want a third drink? Then that's going to cost extra.

Do you need a 3rd drink to enjoy the dance floor?

Probably 90% of you do actually... But I digress.

The club can't just give infinate free drinks though without losing money. You lose money, you can't hire a DJ. No DJ, no dancing. No dancing, no women. No women, then your bar is just filled with guys who were going to just there to buy booze anyway. You haven't grown a customer base, and your club fails.

The point being Intrepid is a business, not a charity. You get full access to the game for $15 a month. There will be cosmetics attainable in the game, so there's your 2 free drinks. But anything extra is "buffet" style and not required to play for any reason other than vanity.

But like every other business in the world, you have to pay for extra. Any place that offers "free refills" or "free topping" is just upping the price of their base product and banking the money they make when people don't take advantage of the "free extras".

Would you rather your base price be higher so you can pay for someone else's cosmetics? Do you want to pay for cosmetics you don't even want? Should everyone else pay for your cosmetics?

Because if you like that business model, go work for cable TV, and charge me $120 a month for the 4 channels I watch and the 106 that I don't.

Very well said.

Hopefully this will clear things up for people that believe a box cost + subscription would actually be a better option.

I surely do not wish to pay someones extra fries at McDonalds.

ArchivedUser

Karthos said:

So here's the way I see it.

You are paying a monthly membership fee to have access to a bar/club. Say that fee is $15 a month. Now in that membership, it gives you 2 free drinks a night. You can go in, enjoy your 2 drinks, dance, hang out, play pub games, use the hot tub, ect... All you want. But you want a third drink? Then that's going to cost extra.

Do you need a 3rd drink to enjoy the dance floor?

Ok firstly, to get 2 free drinks a night, I'd pay that 15$ monthly fee in a blink of an eye lol.

Secondly, if extra drinks do not serve as P2W on the dance floor, then I'd be fine with it.

ArchivedUser

Personally I'd love all cosmetics introduced into the cash shop to be available somewhere in game....just behind a tough grind wall or difficult quest/ low probability drop etc, that way those of us with thinner wallets can still access the content, and all you're paying for in the cash shop then is convenience....
 most people would pay for convenience if the prices were right, but this is the only way i can see that a true and fair moral choice is presented to you by the company....it wouldn't be then, oh you want it, you HAVE to give us money for it, instead it becomes , oh you want it...make your choice.

Im also hoping for time restricted exclusive cosmetics though....you wanted x cosmetic, you needed an active sub on x date.
 Designing and advertising the following months cosmetics found freely in game, would to my mind help just as much with sustained cash flow through subs as paid cash shop cosmetics....
but it's early and I know nothing about economics anymore.

ArchivedUser

If it doesn't affect game play, intrepid can sell whatever they want in their store. I believe they will stick to their promise of no pay to win so more power to them.

ArchivedUser

nagash said:

No one is forcing you to buy the items and if other people what to spend their money on the game what's to say they cant?

 You can repeat "no one force you to buy it" all day you want, but it not going to change anything, neither going to make this game competitive on the market if there are other games where you either can play free and only pay for costumes, or pay anyway but get every content...

ArchivedUser

@MADE

DevonMeep said:

If it doesn't affect game play, intrepid can sell whatever they want in their store. I believe they will stick to their promise of no pay to win so more power to them.

Doesn't affect gameplay, no P2W.
And no one force you to buy it *shrugs*

ArchivedUser

MADE said:

nagash said:

No one is forcing you to buy the items and if other people what to spend their money on the game what's to say they cant?

 You can repeat "no one force you to buy it" all day you want, but it not going to change anything, neither going to make this game competitive on the market if there are other games where you either can play free and only pay for costumes, or pay anyway but get every content...

I'm not sure what I've done to offend you, but the facts still stand. No one is making you buy cosmetics in the game the chose is yours. In the end, all it does is allow people who want to have a personal touch on their character have that chose. If you don't like that, then that's up to you but don't force your opinion on others just because you don't like it.

if can name some MMOs that don't sell cosmetics I would be happy to see them but the majority of MMO games today have the feature, and I don't see it going anytime soon.

ArchivedUser

MADE said:

nagash said:

No one is forcing you to buy the items and if other people what to spend their money on the game what's to say they cant?

 You can repeat "no one force you to buy it" all day you want, but it not going to change anything, neither going to make this game competitive on the market if there are other games where you either can play free and only pay for costumes, or pay anyway but get every content...

Why so angry?

Who hurt you?

You can talk to us, this is a safe place. 

ArchivedUser

The trouble we have had in the past is that other companies (praying Intrepid aren't one of those) start with micro transactions that are only cosmetic, and every says "great" then they start sneaking in "life style transactions" like reducing crafting time by buying the "Dwarfen Hammer of Copper Working", and everyone says "oh that's handy" then it's "Ogre Bags of Carrying" etc etc.

I had this argument on the BDO forums, while things like extra carry weight aren't in themselves P2W any game that allows you to stay out and farm for longer, thus making more XP and Money IMHO are P2W, especially in a game like BDO where money is king.

ArchivedUser

As long as these are crafted in game and nothing in the CS is larger or unobtainable in game then it won't break that P2Win promise.


Along with the multiple times this has been brought up in livestreams, I doubt we will see ever see the "Dwarfen Hammer of Copper Working", unless it is a skin that you can throw over another in game hammer to make your crafter look snappy. There is also a quote out there that I am not going to go bother to find that basically states (Paraphrasing) "If it turns out that our mechanics and gameplay become an issue that we are starting to lose money, taking the game in a F2P/P2W mechanic would not fix our money issues. We would look at making changes like FFXIV did to gameplay to bring back our base."

ArchivedUser

Yes it's great that at the moment they're saying all this, but time after time lots of developers have said the same thing, lets hope Intrepid stand by those statements over the coming years.

ArchivedUser

All comes down to trust issues. Your other relationships may have cheated on you in the past, yet you still keep trying to get laid.

ArchivedUser

Iscoed1815 said:

Yes it's great that at the moment they're saying all this, but time after time lots of developers have said the same thing, lets hope Intrepid stand by those statements over the coming years.

Considering that Intrepid is simply saying "There will be no P2W"
It's up to you whether or not you trust them.
None or us can change your opinion on that so it's pointless to debate it if that is what it boils down to.

ArchivedUser

I think the argument is kind of silly. If cosmetic items are the deciding factor between playing the game or not, you should be looking into a different type of game. I get that everyone wants to look cool, but a 10$ hat shouldn't be the difference between you enjoying yourself and being miserable.

It would be reasonable to complain if there were no other items in the game that competed in looks to the paid items (even though that's subjective), but I highly doubt that will be the case. As long as the store is purely cosmetic there shouldn't be any issues. Also calling it a "money grabbing vampire scheme" is pretty lame. They made a game and they want to maximize profits without hurting the original dream for the game; they didn't make this game to specialize to your every want. Like you said, you're hyped for other things you've seen about the game. Stay hyped; if you don't want to spend money, not getting "Sharif's Cape of the Nerds" should change that.

ArchivedUser

The proof is going to be in the pudding. We can speculate all day and accomplish nothing. At the end of the day we wont know until the game launches and we get to see the cash shop first hand. Steven has been very out spoken about P2W and CS cash grabs. We will have to trust that IS will hold to the vision that Steven has sold up to this point.

Yeah, yeah, I know, how many times have we been told by game (XXXXX) that there will be no P2W only to have either a gradual or full 180 turn around once the game launches. It happens, it sucks, and there is little recourse aside from speaking with your wallet. IMO micro transactions are a plague on the game industry and should either be regulated out of existence or destroyed by an out spoken consumer base. I would prefer not to see a CS at all, period, without exception. I prefer to pay for a product/service as it is sold and not be constantly molested by in your face up-sales and psychological manipulation.

CS is a very slippery slope. I mean really... $5, $10, $15, $20, $25, $30 for a cosmetic item as we have seen in other games.... only a manipulated or bad consumer would pay that. Just as an example, you buy a game with a $60 box price and then a $10 cosmetic set so you aren't running around in a potato sack..... you just paid 17% of the box price for 1 set. 17% for 1 cosmetic set in a game that launched with well over 100 armor sets for $60.... not taking into account all the other content you got for that $60 such as the playable map, npcs, mechanics, narrative, etc. Even at 100 armor sets with the launch and not considering the content of the game itself, each set would break down to $0.60 each. But you just paid $10 instead of the $0.60 it was worth. That is dumb, and people buy into it. People buying into it, is why micro transactions exist today.

In the event IS does not deliver on the visions and ideas that I bought into during the KS, then it is what it is. I will have zero Ducks given and gladly add IS beside companies that I refuse to do business with. EA, Gamers First, Pearl Abyss, Trion, NC Soft, Activison, and soon to be Bethesda are just a few examples of companies that I no longer or will ever give money to in the future.

Here's to hoping IS holds true to their vision.

Would like to recommend the following for recent examples of micro transactions in the gaming industry as a whole to continue the constructive dialog of this thread:

nerdslayer / Micro transactions & P2W: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF5oI2C1gJQ

Pretty Good Gaming / Gambling micro transactions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7c5f0LfAzk

Jim Sterling / Destiny 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYkAkHkp9ZY

TotalBiscuit / Micro transactions" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imLjs_HjGGg

ArchivedUser

Hatred said:

" ... I would prefer not to see a CS at all, period, without exception ... "

I'm surprised no one said this yet - any & everything put in the cash shop ... Can literally be  added to the Game-World - an In-game economy Vs. ❝Breaking-the-4th-Wall❞ Cash shop Economy

(breaking immersion since cash shop items can't be found anywhere in-game)

❝ Oh gee ... I can't* get that sweet chest piece ... I'll just go to the cash shop and spend Real-world currency ❞

That's how ❝ it ❞ starts

•  when players starts to become more concerned with the Cash Shop, 
• Devs begin to cater cash shop more than the content ( they do so if the Revenue from the Cash Shop is higher than Subs )
• 80% - 90% of the Community that WAS here ... Are now gone
• Those that remain, sooner-or-later,  slowly becomes the Majority - and then the Cash Shop is catered even further ( ... more so than before ... ) than the actual MMO itself ... 
• because that Small 10% - 20%  that remained ... predominantly wanted the cash shop to change

Don't believe me ? ... Look at SWTOR (－.－〆)

Again ... Any & everything put into the cash shop can be implemented in the in-game world itself (๑•̀ㅂ•́)و✧

ArchivedUser

Eragale said:

Hatred said:

I would prefer not to see a CS at all, period, without exception.

I'm surprised no one said this yet - any & everything put in the cash shop ... Can literally be  added to the Game-World - an In-game economy Vs. ❝Breaking-the-4th-Wall❞ Cash shop Economy

Cause don't see a problem with it personally, aswell as the fact that they have said that you will be able to find, in game, some of the items in the CS. Others again will be exclusive to CS.

Eragale said:

❝ Oh gee ... I can get that sweet chest piece ... I'll just go to the cash shop and spend Real-world currency ❞

That's how ❝ it ❞ starts - when players starts to become more concerned with the Cash Shop, Devs begin to cater to those for with cash shop more than the content, 80% - 90% of the Community that WAS here ... Are now gone

Those that remain, sooner-or-later,  slowly becomes the Majority - and then the Cash Shop is catered more than the actual MMO itself

Don't believe me ? ... Look at SWTOR (－.－〆)

Again ... Any & everything put into the cash shop can be implemented in the in-game world itself (๑•̀ㅂ•́)و✧

Your only point in all of this "I don't trust the company"
Which is something that, in itself, is pointless to debate as it is up to personal preferences. Now, if you can come with some points as to why CS should not be a thing, besides you not trusting them to keep it away from P2W, there's nothing really to discuss.