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Microtransactions

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  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited October 2017
    @Kratz Thats how it starts - it starts off insignificant, but then the Cash Shop will gain more emphasis if the MMO fails to deliver. If the Worse were to happen ... Devs will resort to focusing on their Cash Shop rather than content. If they don't, an P2P doesn't work, then it might get Shut Down.

     Years from now you're going to wish their was never a  Cash Shop

    If i'm paying $15 a month for an MMO - I expect the entirety of the MMO to be fully Playable without ever having to indulge my Wallet any further
    • nothing " exclusive " to the Cash Shop ; everything should obtainable via Hardwork.  
    • Your appearance should reflect the adventures that you been through - not how much money you spent - it'll de-humanize a huge aspect of immersion.
    • If I want to excel / be the best in DPS,Heals or Tank - i better not have to dip-in my wallet yet again
    • No quests to re-direct me to Cash Shop 10x over
    • EDIT: There's a bunch i could've said - but not worth mentioning unless i see it

    If Intrepid wants ts Customer to further Support this MMO, then they can do that without ever having a Cash Shop.


    In short, I've seen this happen before - it always results in a Backfire. 
  • The least they can do is not have the Cash Shop in-game & only Website ... or you know .... not have it :\
  • Eragale said:
    Years from now you're going to wish their was never a  Cash Shop. 
    Years from now I could be dead. Who knows? One thing I do know is that I won't lose sleep over a cash shop. I agree that everything should be obtainable in game but until I see what they put in their cash shop I won't worry about it, and trust they'll do what's right for their game.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited October 2017
    Eragale said:
    I know very well what it says, but I am informing you that Intrepid and Steven himself have stated on livestream that they are mount skins, not mounts.

    Edit: Here is a reference: http://aocwiki.net/Mounts#Mount_Skins
  • @Zastro I know how Wiki works - any member can change whats on it as long as they sign up for it ( and they have to provide a good reason too ) . So that doesn't suffice as a reputable source imho.

    Regardless, it doesn't matter if its a Skin or Mount - when i play Alpha & Beta & Launch - I'm not going to use it. Neither am I going to use a Mount for awhile
    • Because i want to experience what a " Non-backer " will experience if its their first time playing - thus providing better FeedBack
    • Also because i don't like Rushing through everything 
    @Kratz
    Despite all i've said, i too want this MMO to succeed. But i won't be naive nor gullible as to what might happen based on all the Cash Shops I've seen in other MMOs. And i won't be discouraged to express how i feel about it - because I've seen " it " happen

    " I just call it like i see it "

    ... and it really makes me worried that a part of the Community wants a Cash Shop
  • You have the perfect right to hold intrepid accountable for their cash shop and I encourage you to do so. You also need to accept that there are others here who also wish to express their views and who do not share your concerns. That neither makes them naive nor gullible, for until Intrepid clearly state what’s in their shop there’s little proof and little desire to heavily debate “what ifs”. :smile:
  • Dammit @Kratz stop being reasonable. You can't pull a Toto and expose the Wizard too early. These forums only function as a home to hyperbole and faux outrage if everyone believes that Intrepid actually cares what the unwashed masses are saying on them. I know if I had a business to run, listening to random people on an internet forum would be where I get all my best ideas. Look at Chic-fil-a protests a couple years back if anyone remembers. Everyone will boycott.....until they get hungry for a chicken sandwich.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited October 2017
    @UnknownSystemError
    Not a good comparison. Especially since there are other Variables to consider - variables that cant* be correlated with a Fast-Food Place of all things 
    More or i less i see what you mean though Xp
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited October 2017
    Zastro said:
    Eragale said:
    I know very well what it says, but I am informing you that Intrepid and Steven himself have stated on livestream that they are mount skins, not mounts.

    Edit: Here is a reference: http://aocwiki.net/Mounts#Mount_Skins
    Here @Zastro : Link to Ashes of Creation Kickstarter FAQ
    Check the question at the bottom.

    If you're not the link clicking type:

    How do the Kickstarter mounts work?

    There has been a little confusion over how the mounts from Kickstart will work and when backers can expect to obtain them. In order to clear up any confusion over the system, allow us to offer a brief overview detailing how exactly the mount rewards will be obtained and utilized by any applicable backers.

    – Basic land mounts will first be obtained through an early quest that is present for all players within any of the starting areas. 
    – Once you have obtained your mount in the game, you will be able to assign your cosmetic skin from Kickstarter to the character of your choice from your account management screen. Once this skin has been assigned to the character, you may use the skin to apply the appearance of your Kickstarter mount to the mount you have earned in game. This does not remove the skin itself, as you can apply it again to any other applicable mount in the future. 
    – If you wish to remove the skin from a character on your account, and assign the skin item to another character you may do so. But it can only ever be active on one character/mount. 
    - The Dawnbreaker is also a mount skin and will be used in a similar fashion as above, but is only applicable to a certain class of mounts. 
    – Aquatic mount skins like the Tidesnapper, are again also used in a similar fashion, but are only applicable to the aquatic class of mounts.

  • A lot of stuff was put on the Kickstarter page without being fully thought out or vetted. Anyone want to reopen the "Earliest Access to Ashes" shitshow? Or the "battle pets" debacle. Realize that Steven gets excited when talking about his baby and throws jargon around that may not match what the "community" translates it as. Thus he ends up having to wordsmith the hell outta corners he paints himself into when it bites them in the ass from a PR standpoint. 
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited October 2017
    Thank you @Ziltch

     @Eragale If you know how a wiki works then you should know that if you scroll down on the wiki page you will find the source of the information. In this case the source information are screenshots of Steven confirming on discord what I told you . Here they are for your convenience: 
    pKBR5zjpng
    A7HWrTDpng
  • Eragale said:

    ... and it really makes me worried that a part of the Community wants a Cash Shop
    But why does that worry you? That some of us want it?

    Because you clearly believe that the convenience shop is a slippery slope that will lead to the downfall of the game. 

    I believe otherwise, and I've clearly stated why I would appreciate and like one.
    All of our society is geared towards consumerism and manipulating us to part with our hard earned... it's something that is unlikely to ever change. And as long as they remain true to their initial ethos of non p2w, cosmetic items, why is it so bad?

    Intrepid has not run an mmo before, so you cannot firmly state without a modicum of doubt, how the future will proceed.
    Especially given that Intrepid, isn't a large company with the bottom line being their main focus, most of the mmo's that you considered failed through cash shops will have been set up and run by corporations and driven by stock holders. Intrepid are doing this because they are individual gamers, they hold the ideal that they are making a game they want to play. I doubt they want to be bombarded with 'buy me now!!!' whilst playing. 

    Are our desires for a cash shop so wrong? Sure I could support intrepid another way, but being a selfish human, getting something for my support is more satisfying to me.

    Sure, I could roleplay all of my characters in clothing that fails to represent their character, but I'd rather not. I have a fraction of useable time that most humans have, hence I place a lot greater value upon my time, so getting cosmetics only in game (for each fleeting existence of an rp toon) will be more than horrendous for myself.

    So yes, I firmly support the existence of a convenience shop, though yes, I'd choose for everything to be also available in game and also purchasable with in game currency. 

    I am open and happy to be convinced otherwise, but so far all I'm getting is that some of us are a lot more optimistic (based on Intrepids ideals and player focused actions so far) than yourself (based on completely differently games under completely differing circumstances)

    Much love :)


  • As I've said earlier.
    Personal trust/distrust is not in itself a valid argument for discussion xD
    The reason for the trust/distrust is, and that's already been discussed :P 
    Also, feelings about capitalism in general is neither a good argument either, nor something that needs to be discussed, but that's just my opinion as I find it boring and pointless to discuss.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited October 2017
    I'm sorry, but your response didn't help me to see your point of view.

    Given that this thread is now six pages long, could you kindly help a brain damaged woman out by reconfirming your personal reasons for your distrust? 

    I still have no clue as to why you want to remain worried about other people being fine about cash shops? 

    As to whether something is relevant to this discussion or not, surely that's just personal opinion, and whilst I respect you holding your own, please kindly respect the fact that I see others opinions against the cash shop as arguments only against an inherent detriment of living in a capitalist society. Convince me otherwise. 

    I am aiming to get involved and understand your point of view, if you merely want to state your opinions without discussion because you would find said discussion 'boring and pointless' that's your choice, but I feel that grumbling without helping others to understand your point of view,  ultimately means that it is more likely to be ignored by those who are able to actually make the decision about it all. 

    Just in my opinion though.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited October 2017
    If distrust is a factor, we so far have no reason not to trust Intrepid Studios. Did they ever lie to us?
    The most controversial thing they did was to delay a live stream, oh boy!

    Trust really shouldn't be an issue. I understand that many publishers were dishonest and people might have trust issues, but there is no reason for worry regarding IS.

    As for the cash shop, and that is simply my opinion, if it is just cosmetics and free of p2w, then I am completely fine with it. A cosmetic-only cash shop will benefit everyone, as it will generate more income that can be used for development or better services.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited October 2017
    Trust is irrelevant in context of this issue.

    The fact is that not many people would play P2P sub game that also has P2W cash shop. If any developer / publisher would do this, they would simply have empty servers.

    This is the reason why there is nothing to worry about here.

    Only if game would go F2P, then there would be a reason to worry.
  • Gothix said:
    Trust is irrelevant in context of this issue.

    The fact is that not many people would play P2P sub game that also has P2W cash shop. If any developer / publisher would do this, they would simply have empty servers.

    This is the reason why there is nothing to worry about here.

    Only if game would go F2P, then there would be a reason to worry.
    And regarding that they said that if the game is dying, instead of throwing P2W elements into it and offend their most loyal crowd, they'd rather do something ala FFXIV style because it's their mistake if it goes bad. So will prob never go F2P.
  • Ziltch said:
    Gothix said:
    Trust is irrelevant in context of this issue.

    The fact is that not many people would play P2P sub game that also has P2W cash shop. If any developer / publisher would do this, they would simply have empty servers.

    This is the reason why there is nothing to worry about here.

    Only if game would go F2P, then there would be a reason to worry.
    So will prob never go F2P.
    Amen to that.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited October 2017
    Cosmetic Only* is loosing it's credibility as the go to excuse for legitimizing micro transactions. As more games adopt this income source the quality of the game* diminishes, because the cash cow becomes to attractive for the publishers* so more development emphasis gets allocated towards providing more cash shop content*

    And the cosmetic only* approach gets fuzzy when even at a cosmetic level some element of it gives a competitive edge eg different audio/effects/visual cues in competitive play.

    So far the impression is that the cash shop in Ashes has cash only content, I principally don't agree with this. I believe that the all* content provided by the cash shop should be achievable through in game methods along side direct purchasing.

    This would be the best case scenario/compromise.

    Understand @Kratz that you ongoing financial support is appreciated i am sure, however if 10+ other new potential players are deterred by the cash shop* and don't subscribe. then Intrepid might end up looking towards your cosmetic only support,

    Then subscription numbers cant sustain and the game goes f2p like all the other MMOs that offered a cash shop before it.


  • I think a good middle ground would be to do what Wildstar has done with their cash shop. I don't mean copying what they sell in it, I mean that they have a currency that can drop from mobs that is used exclusively from the cash shop. So from just playing the game you can acquire coins that you can then use to buy items from the cash shop without having to spend real money.
  • I don't like cosmetic only because it means they are creating assets and then not putting them in the game outside of a quick credit card charge. Many times they look far better than what is readily available through gameplay. That is why I'm so torn on this subject. I would love to be able to donate and get something out of it. However I can't support a game that puts their "A" material in the shop and the rest in game. Something like GW2 has a nice middle-ground where you can convert your currency into cash shop funds. Idk... MTs make me hurt all over.
  • Donating and getting something out of it, but not wanting cosmetics instead of p2w items in the cash shop is contradicting.

    What would you suggest to be in the cash shop instead of cosmetics that you would like to get for donating?
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited October 2017
    Wildstar was a Subscription game had a cash shop went f2p...
    Elderscrolls online was a subscription, had a cash shop...went f2p..
    Swotor....Lotro....
    Gw2 was buy the box no subscription with convenience* behind a paywall cosmetic cash shop but it was f2p.

    By all accounts any MMO with a cash shop degrades into a f2p game all good intentions aside.

    WoW/activision Blizzard can do whatever it wants with it massive fan base and get away with polishing a turd.

    The we had the KS>summer campaign skin exclusive* asset flip. With the summer skins more exclusive  then the original KS rewards cosmetically* offered for a small* alacarte additional fee, apparently the best outcome for a bungled crowd funding extension....

    waved a magic wand in front of us and the problem disappeared right....

    The problem with direct exchange is basically p2w currency converter so adopting GW2 methods won't work.

    The fact is the cash shop could be perceived as a concern is because it provides a get out of subscription model fail safe mechanism that already undermines the subscription in the first place.

    Before cash shops you would see a player in game with awesome gear and wonder in awe how such things were obtained, what deeds, trails and adventures were required to obtain such things, perhaps you would ask the geared adventurer and acquire information to set you on the path and perhaps make a friend on the way.

    Now it's oh look that guy has a wallet....sure likes to pose in the middle of town for 12hrs.

    Any way the cash shop is a thing, I personally hope it's specific content is obtainable via in game means.

    I might be anti cash shop but i am pro Merchandise.




  • I have one thing to say to everyone who thinks the game will become pay to win.



    Have faith  o:)
  • nagash said:
    I have one thing to say to everyone who thinks the game will become pay to win.



    Have faith  o:)

  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited October 2017
    Jupp, all I am seeing are the same argument of 
    "I don't trust them" 

    Whocando said:
    By all accounts any MMO with a cash shop degrades into a f2p game all good intentions aside.

    *Uses same logic*
    All thieves are alive, you are alive therefore you are a thief. You thief. 
  • Ziltch said:
    Jupp, all I am seeing are the same argument of 
    "I don't trust them" 

    Whocando said:
    By all accounts any MMO with a cash shop degrades into a f2p game all good intentions aside.

    *Uses same logic*
    All thieves are alive, you are alive therefore you are a thief. You thief. 

    Everyone is alive, therefore everyone is a thief....of death.  ( Couldn't resist) >:)
  • Whocando said:

    " ... Before cash shops you would see a player in game with awesome gear and wonder in awe how such things were obtained, what deeds, trails and adventures were required to obtain such things, perhaps you would ask the geared adventurer and acquire information to set you on the path and perhaps make a friend on the way ... "
    I miss this feeling  :'(

  • I am pretty sure that everyone agrees that P2W micro transactions are bad. I am also pretty sure that most here believe that P2W is not going to be a thing in Ashes. However because it has been stated that there will be a cash shop, and lets be honest the vast majority if not 99.9999% of cash shops out there are P2W by way of advantage / exclusivity / convenience / etc, folks rightfully should be cautious and skeptical. But skeptical or not we wont be able to verify or put away these concerns until we get to see Ashes' cash shop first hand.

    I would propose that instead of debating if we are going to see P2W in Ashes, how about we debate whether a micro transaction system has a positive / negative place in the game to begin with.

    I would like to think that Steven and crew have been watching this thread for a while if not using alternate forum accounts to pipe in themselves, after all, they are part of the community just as much as we all are.

    Perhaps micro transactions is one of those things that we as a community can influence. If not the existence of the cash shop then perhaps its implementation and mechanics.

    Would seem that many here like myself hanker for the "golden days" of all content inclusive without a cash shop. Thoughts?

  • @Ziltch

    I would  rather expect the worst and be proven wrong, then be assured the best and receive disappointment.

    the ultimate thief is death. therefore not all thieves are alive, but they will all eventually die.

    I've been promised the same game on many occasions, so please forgive a skeptical old fool for cynically scrutinizing and perhaps being overly critical, I am not doing it out of spite.

    If i didn't have some overall level of confident  optimism regarding Intrepid/Ashes I wouldn't have backed the game.

    I want it to succeed too.


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