Microtransactions

ArchivedUser

In the real world knights bought their own armor, or in some cases, won the armor off a defeated opponent.  And in rarer cases abandoned armor or off dead bodies.  Armor was sometimes gifted as a reward.

As far as microtransactions, there should only be cosmetics for sure, but I still prefer that all items be "in-game".

ArchivedUser

So what do you all think about cash  shop Items being able to be bought with IG coin? And of course they should be untradeable and account bound.

As far as armor being won from other or taken on the battlefield that rarely happened to a common foot soldier. If you defeated a knight in battle you would probably ransom him. and even if you ransomed him you were most likely a person of some means. You had to be a knight to compete against other knights in tournaments  and by extension you had to already have armor to compete in a tournament.

ArchivedUser

Xontian said:

Two points i would like to make
1. Knights and most soldiers for that matter didnt have to earn their armor and weapons they had to buy them. It was a simple fact that armorsmiths and weaponsmiths didnt work to give the best stuff to the most deserving they sold it to people who could pay for it. So i dont think IG you should only get the uber sword of doom because you earned it through your actions but you may have just bought it.
2. the simplest solution to the Micro-transactions is to simply make all cash shop items buyable with in game Gold. So you can spend some RL cash and get it or you can spend alot more IG currency to get it. that way it would be fair to all. Cash shop items should be account bound and untradeable.

Point 2. That leaves the door open for selling gold on websites. I think most would agree on not wanting that. I'd rather no cash shop at all fr in game if I had my way.

This leaves the door open for the Cosmetic Only cash shop to be used indirectly as a PTW.   So NO THANK YOU dont want in game currency able to get Cash Shop items.

No trade, no sell no gift is the way to go, and I hope it stays that way.

ArchivedUser

Dorje said:

Consultant said:

Santy182 said:

the items that lack lore, the common and "trash" items that you mention rarely make you look very heroic, or like you have beaten an incredible boss, which will be the case with the CS cosmetics because unlike the common loreless rubbish, these will make you look shiny and powerful.

Steve already confrimed that you will look shinyand powerful from in game items just as well as from the Cash Shop items and also confirmed that he wil not be making the items in the cash intentionally better than in game but will be on par with in game items. And that is coming frome the CEO of IS.

Just go to the Ashes of Creation Wiki and search cash shop on there website search bar, to be better informed about this topic

Not quite lol. Here is a quote.

Steven-07/17/2017
I understand your apprehension. The state and direction of other Mmorpg's is why I started Ashes. You don't have to agree with the pricing structure of the crowdsourcing add ons, but rest assured Ashes will never include monetization practices that require players to pay to win or stay competitive. And there will be an abundance of in game cosmetics that are achievable and rare, some on par with marketplace cosmetics 

Some on par with marketplace cosmetics.  Some usually refers to a few. Meaning there will be many items in Cash Shop that are better than what we can get in game. That's a direct quote BTW wish I had a link couldn't find it but that was linked from System Error earlier in this thread.

***

Here is the thing many people argue that as long as it is not PTW and it is just cosmetics it is ok. But here is the thing looks in a game is very important. If I'm paying a sub fee and while there are things I can grind there will be that much more cooler stuff I have to buy that I can't get by playing the game that's imbalance and there is no justification that will change that.

Goal is to create risk vrs reward, cash shops even just for cosmetics takes away from that. where is the risk in going to a cash shop to look better than someone else with no risk other than maybe missing a payment because you spent too much on a game to look good.

Goal to create a tight community. Having Haves and Have Nots element "Cash Shops" takes away from that as well and creates a separation. Let's be real what's the number one thing in real life that separates the Haves and Have Nots? That's right image, appearance how one looks over another, Better cloths, better skin care, better stylist. Appearance in present day is important where it's in real life or in a game, it has a huge impact.  that is truth and that is reality.

***

Cash shop to this day is my only apprehension for AOC and everything else about it I love. I really do hope it has balance I really do hope that if it gets out of hand it at some point it will get toned down. Making a lot of money is a funny thing tho and if cash shop ends up turning more profit than the subs it can get real ugly real fast and its gonna be hard to resist making more of it regardless of how it effects the game and honestly this is the biggest concern I have as well as the fact if I am paying a sub I feel I shouldn't have to be spending extra money to get something especially since it's not earned.

The best and most memorable games I've played is where I had to work for the things I got not by paying for it and yes this includes how one looks.

If it get's to the point where majority of cool stuff can only be gotten through cash shops that will be enough to turn me away at that point. If I've been playing for 2 years and I see a bunch of brand new players walking around looking better than me cause I prefer to earn the way I look rather than pay for it, that will be enough to turn me away from the game. How one looks in a game is an important factor it shows experience it shows effort put in. To have people walking around looking better than you and all they had to do was pay for it cheapens the game experience.

This to me is what confuses me the most about AOC. Steve sounds like a great guy he has great ideas and has amazing people working for him and this community is amazing.  So for all the things he wants to bring to this game and all the best from old school games such as, risk vrs reward, a challenging game, a tight community. I don't understand why risk all that with a cash shop that could derail all those wonderful things. 

***

If there is a cash shop and obviously at this point there will be:

1) There needs to be a lot more items in game that are on par with cash shop items than just SOME. In fact, there should be more items in game that are on par with what is available in cash shops than there are those grade of items in ash shops.
2) Cash shop items should not be better than what's available in game just different. That's a fine line and a hard one to make when money is involved.
3) In game items that take a long time to acquire or are hard to get should alway look superior to anything you can purchase.

If I want to make an inn look good it should be through effort crafting gathering the mats hiring goods or skill from players that are master crafters boosting game economy, over simply purchasing a skin for the in or residence. 

To me all cash shops will ever do to a game is create rifts in communities and cheapen the game experience and yes even if its just looks. Is too high a price to pay for what we all hope AOC to be.

I really hope by the time game releases and I know this is wishful thinking but I really hope box purchase and expansion purchase will replace cash shops if not at the beginning at some point.

I'd rather $20 a month than a cash shop , box purchase, expansion purchase.

Bottom line any time you can purchase over earning it cheapens the experience at a heavy cost to the wallet.

Fair points, but many can be countered. But probably with causing offence too.

Its only the vain that have a problem with the cosmetic only cash shop. Such people literally do judge a book by its cover. Which brings us to point 2.

By judging a book by its cover and having a personal subjective rating system, you are effectively creating a personal hierarchy to define people. A supremacy system in effect, where you look down upon the less well presented. This grading systems reflects nothing about a persons demeanour or capability....just wealth.

Many people simpy dont succumb to vain tendencies and so the cash shop is just seen as an alternative source of attire, where beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so who cares.

But the good point you do make is effort vs reward for the vain. It is indeed a system that bypasses game content to achieve the same quality result or even a better quality result. Personally, as long as equal quality items can be found through effort or cash, it is a fair way to make additional money which only goes to make the game better and add even more in game content...and cosmetics.

The trick then is to have awesome cosmetics that never appears through the cash shop and awesome cosmetics that never appear through the game.

ArchivedUser

Rune_Relic said:

Dorje said:

Consultant said:

Santy182 said:

the items that lack lore, the common and "trash" items that you mention rarely make you look very heroic, or like you have beaten an incredible boss, which will be the case with the CS cosmetics because unlike the common loreless rubbish, these will make you look shiny and powerful.

Steve already confrimed that you will look shinyand powerful from in game items just as well as from the Cash Shop items and also confirmed that he wil not be making the items in the cash intentionally better than in game but will be on par with in game items. And that is coming frome the CEO of IS.

Just go to the Ashes of Creation Wiki and search cash shop on there website search bar, to be better informed about this topic

Not quite lol. Here is a quote.

Steven-07/17/2017
I understand your apprehension. The state and direction of other Mmorpg's is why I started Ashes. You don't have to agree with the pricing structure of the crowdsourcing add ons, but rest assured Ashes will never include monetization practices that require players to pay to win or stay competitive. And there will be an abundance of in game cosmetics that are achievable and rare, some on par with marketplace cosmetics 

Some on par with marketplace cosmetics.  Some usually refers to a few. Meaning there will be many items in Cash Shop that are better than what we can get in game. That's a direct quote BTW wish I had a link couldn't find it but that was linked from System Error earlier in this thread.

***

Here is the thing many people argue that as long as it is not PTW and it is just cosmetics it is ok. But here is the thing looks in a game is very important. If I'm paying a sub fee and while there are things I can grind there will be that much more cooler stuff I have to buy that I can't get by playing the game that's imbalance and there is no justification that will change that.

Goal is to create risk vrs reward, cash shops even just for cosmetics takes away from that. where is the risk in going to a cash shop to look better than someone else with no risk other than maybe missing a payment because you spent too much on a game to look good.

Goal to create a tight community. Having Haves and Have Nots element "Cash Shops" takes away from that as well and creates a separation. Let's be real what's the number one thing in real life that separates the Haves and Have Nots? That's right image, appearance how one looks over another, Better cloths, better skin care, better stylist. Appearance in present day is important where it's in real life or in a game, it has a huge impact.  that is truth and that is reality.

***

Cash shop to this day is my only apprehension for AOC and everything else about it I love. I really do hope it has balance I really do hope that if it gets out of hand it at some point it will get toned down. Making a lot of money is a funny thing tho and if cash shop ends up turning more profit than the subs it can get real ugly real fast and its gonna be hard to resist making more of it regardless of how it effects the game and honestly this is the biggest concern I have as well as the fact if I am paying a sub I feel I shouldn't have to be spending extra money to get something especially since it's not earned.

The best and most memorable games I've played is where I had to work for the things I got not by paying for it and yes this includes how one looks.

If it get's to the point where majority of cool stuff can only be gotten through cash shops that will be enough to turn me away at that point. If I've been playing for 2 years and I see a bunch of brand new players walking around looking better than me cause I prefer to earn the way I look rather than pay for it, that will be enough to turn me away from the game. How one looks in a game is an important factor it shows experience it shows effort put in. To have people walking around looking better than you and all they had to do was pay for it cheapens the game experience.

This to me is what confuses me the most about AOC. Steve sounds like a great guy he has great ideas and has amazing people working for him and this community is amazing.  So for all the things he wants to bring to this game and all the best from old school games such as, risk vrs reward, a challenging game, a tight community. I don't understand why risk all that with a cash shop that could derail all those wonderful things. 

***

If there is a cash shop and obviously at this point there will be:

1) There needs to be a lot more items in game that are on par with cash shop items than just SOME. In fact, there should be more items in game that are on par with what is available in cash shops than there are those grade of items in ash shops.
2) Cash shop items should not be better than what's available in game just different. That's a fine line and a hard one to make when money is involved.
3) In game items that take a long time to acquire or are hard to get should alway look superior to anything you can purchase.

If I want to make an inn look good it should be through effort crafting gathering the mats hiring goods or skill from players that are master crafters boosting game economy, over simply purchasing a skin for the in or residence. 

To me all cash shops will ever do to a game is create rifts in communities and cheapen the game experience and yes even if its just looks. Is too high a price to pay for what we all hope AOC to be.

I really hope by the time game releases and I know this is wishful thinking but I really hope box purchase and expansion purchase will replace cash shops if not at the beginning at some point.

I'd rather $20 a month than a cash shop , box purchase, expansion purchase.

Bottom line any time you can purchase over earning it cheapens the experience at a heavy cost to the wallet.

The trick then is to have awesome cosmetics that never appears through the cash shop and awesome cosmetics that never appear through the game.

That's how it should be really. A game should give you the power to look unique but if you want to have items that are rarer then cash shop items are a good way to go about it

ArchivedUser

Agree with Nagash on this one.

ArchivedUser

In order for Cash Shop items to be not pay to win, they just have to be cosmetic with no stats. If any item is bought has stats, even comparable to items in game, or worst, it's still pay to win.

There's a simple and easy solution to this. Make all cash shot items 100% cosmetic with no stats, no improvements, no nothing. What can be done, and I've seen this in other MMORPG's. Is you have your armor/items/weapons that all have the stats you need, and then there was an alternative slot for all of those items. So you had a Chest piece slot you could put another chest piece and that'll be what was seen. This was done for cosmetic look only where you could change out each of your pieces of armor for cosmetic only items with no stats. 

That or don't have a Cash shop period.

ArchivedUser

McKnightrider said:

In order for Cash Shop items to be not pay to win, they just have to be cosmetic with no stats. If any item is bought has stats, even comparable to items in game, or worst, it's still pay to win.

There's a simple and easy solution to this. Make all cash shot items 100% cosmetic with no stats, no improvements, no nothing. What can be done, and I've seen this in other MMORPG's. Is you have your armor/items/weapons that all have the stats you need, and then there was an alternative slot for all of those items. So you had a Chest piece slot you could put another chest piece and that'll be what was seen. This was done for cosmetic look only where you could change out each of your pieces of armor for cosmetic only items with no stats. 

That or don't have a Cash shop period.

Well, good news for you then, since all items in the cash shop are cosmetic only with no stats to them and have been since they were first offered and will be the same for any future items. Maybe I read this wrong, but from your post it sounds like you did not know this.

ArchivedUser

UnknownSystemError said:

McKnightrider said:

In order for Cash Shop items to be not pay to win, they just have to be cosmetic with no stats. If any item is bought has stats, even comparable to items in game, or worst, it's still pay to win.

There's a simple and easy solution to this. Make all cash shot items 100% cosmetic with no stats, no improvements, no nothing. What can be done, and I've seen this in other MMORPG's. Is you have your armor/items/weapons that all have the stats you need, and then there was an alternative slot for all of those items. So you had a Chest piece slot you could put another chest piece and that'll be what was seen. This was done for cosmetic look only where you could change out each of your pieces of armor for cosmetic only items with no stats. 

That or don't have a Cash shop period.

Well, good news for you then, since all items in the cash shop are cosmetic only with no stats to them and have been since they were first offered and will be the same for any future items. Maybe I read this wrong, but from your post it sounds like you did not know this.

I thought as much, but reading through comments made it sound as if there were other items in there that may not be. I'm ok with cosmetics, but at the same time I want things to be in the game that you can't obtain from the cash shop that are greater in cosmetic value, but I don't mind a cash shop if you're just buying stuff to make yourself look better. It does devalue some gameplay value I'll admit. What if everything from the cash shop looks better than the in game items. Even with no stats it'll hurt the game and give the feel of if you want to look accomplished you have to pay for it.

ArchivedUser

@McKnightrider Well, once again they have already addressed your concern in previous statements. I think once you get a chance to do a deep dive into the information that is out there and has been released over the last year an half you will be pleasantly surprised. Here is one quote to get your started on your quest.

ArchivedUser

Some people have made the argument that devs spending more time on cash shop cosmetics is less time making in game cosmetics.  However, if they make extra money with a cash shop they can use some of that money to hire people to soley make those cosmetics, and they have more money to spend on extra devs for even more in game content.  That's if they so choose.
I personally would slightly lean toward no cash shop because it makes earned cosmetics/armors more satisfying and a lot cooler.  However, that is just a small annoyance and with the shop being 100% not p2w, I'm ok with it.  I would like to see more reasonable prices though.

ArchivedUser

@Nibiru97

Actually, if anything I hope the cash shop is expensive. If it's all cosmetic I don't want $1 or $5 suits if armor that look amazing and everyone just running around with this badass look. You start making cosmetic $20, $30 then all of a sudden it'll start getting as rare as raid gear. But I also don't see the appeal to it. I don't want to start the game looking completely badass, kinda takes away from the progression of building up to something. 

ArchivedUser

I think $5 is too low as well, and agree it would make the cosmetic too commonplace.  But $20-30 is absurd for a sub based game.  I think $15 for costumes would be reasonable, not too low not too high.

ArchivedUser

Nibiru97 said:

I think $5 is too low as well, and agree it would make the cosmetic too commonplace.  But $20-30 is absurd for a sub based game.  I think $15 for costumes would be reasonable, not too low not too high.

That’s about what they cost now in the shop.

ArchivedUser

Right now a Costume, Building Skin, Caravan skin, or Ship skin are 25$, 20$ for the Mount skin, 15$ for the Pet,  and finally the 5$ is for the accessory. But I figure that's because they are limited edition cosmetics so they are more expensive than what we will see in the cash shop after launch.

ArchivedUser

Santy182 said:

Right now a Costume, Building Skin, Caravan skin, or Ship skin are 25$, 20$ for the Mount skin, 15$ for the Pet,  and finally the 5$ is for the accessory. But I figure that's because they are limited edition cosmetics so they are more expensive than what we will see in the cash shop after launch.

I wish I could share that thought, but I bet that it will be the same price points in game.

ArchivedUser

T-Elf said:

Santy182 said:

Right now a Costume, Building Skin, Caravan skin, or Ship skin are 25$, 20$ for the Mount skin, 15$ for the Pet,  and finally the 5$ is for the accessory. But I figure that's because they are limited edition cosmetics so they are more expensive than what we will see in the cash shop after launch.

I wish I could share that thought, but I bet that it will be the same price points in game.

I think it will depend on how many of them are being purchased.  As always, items are generally sold at the price that the market will bear.

ArchivedUser

A full skin for your character being $25-30 is good imo. Is expensive enough that it'll be rarer to see but not to outrageous that no one will buy it. You really don't want the game to launch with everyone in a skin that looks like end game armor because they were so cheap. That'll menialize actual high end gear or in game obtainable cosmetics. Plus if they keep up the 1 new full skin every month, it'll add to the rarity of them.