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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
There are PvP Elements: Sieges, Caravans, and Node Wars, but the only things that you really should be expected to participate in are the Node Wars, and even then, you can probably help your Node in ways other than fighting. Otherwise, you can avoid PvP almost entirely, save for the few instances where someone might PK (edit: or harass ;P) you.
There are many people who believe the restrictions on PKing are too harsh, which includes myself to an extent, and that is the issue here.
Hope that cleared it up for you!
- Sikuba
Nothing has changed about that.
No seriously
As a PvP player, I do not have a problem with the Corruption System. Is there flaws? sure.. are there changes I think should be made? of course.
However I do not think, at any point people should be using anything regarding "penalties are too harsh" in their argument, at that point you're taking an unknown variable and claiming it is unfair.
I haven't kept up to date with all the changes as I've been busy, but from what I've gathered from reading through, not much if anything has changed.
If you're green and someone attacks you, you have two choices.
For the person attacking, you have a two choices.
Now, as for the debate about resources. PvP wins resources. Am I the only one that has realised this? (I think I got to about page 10, so sorry if someone stated this before me..)
Of course we don't know how the system is going to work. But likely if you can interrupt someone from collecting resources. You can just interrupt them and start taking it yourself. At that point, you're purple and to do the same, they'd have to open themselves to PvP which would be what you wanted in the first place besides the resource. Either way you won right? (unless they beat you, but that is another story..)
Because as far as I recall, you only gain corruption for killing a green player, not attacking them.
Now to further point out, corruption stacks. So going on the assumption that you're of the same or very similar level to the person, you should gain minimal corruption and past that, we can't really say what penalties will occur for a first kill when you're at 0 corruption. If you have previous corruption, that really isn't the fault of the other player.
Though I do however agree there should be a way to work off corruption besides dying. And the idea that people can stay green whilst attacking reds is absurd.
But most people should not be worried about corruption. I'd say if you've killed someone twice and they're still not attacking back. Stop. Because that is no longer PvP regardless of how you see it. If a player does not want to partake in PvP and you continue to kill them, that is griefing and is of no benefit to you. Hence the stacking penalty.
Refusing to fight back is not really avoiding PvP combat.
The hope is that Corruption will keep PKing at a minimum and that the vast majority of players will not want to risk Corruption, so will break off the attack relatively quickly when their target chooses to remain a non-combatant.
We will have to actually play the game to get a feel for how easy it is to avoid combat.
Regardless, we know that PvP combat is not required for individuals to progress.
I was referring to all PvP in the game when I said PvP (not just world PvP), and PKing was the exception, which is why I said almost entirely. : p
You are focused on PKing.
I am saying that PvEers don't want to simply avoid being killed by other players, they want to avoid being attacked by other players
As Lateana somewhat confirmed, the preference being immunity to attack from other players; not just avoidance of PK.
We don't know how common it will be to be attacked while green.
We will have play the game to know how easy it will be to avoid being attacked while green.
PvE friendly doesn't mean players can always totally avoid PvP. It means PvP is restricted.
This game is a middle ground - though it does lean more towards the PvE player than the PvP player. Truthfully, if any individual is not ok with that, then it is probably safe to say it is not the game for them.
I don't know if we'll be seeing a lot of players attacking like that, to be honest. Doing so marks you purple - if you don't have the confidence to kill the green player and instead need to resort to harassment to get what you want, being purple is probably not a good idea for you. All the green player needs to do is Yell/Shout or Whisper a friend and the harasser will probably be dead.
I doubt poking like that will be a viable option, but on the off chance that it does become one, we'll start seeing players respond to that behavior, particularly PvPers. Someone without the confidence to kill and take the resource is a very gankable target, especially when they make themselves purple to begin with.
I agree that there's not much in place to stop a player from attacking to begin with, other than flagging. But, at the same time, I feel that flagging is a stronger repercussion than you're giving it credit for. You're stuck purple for a while. Anyone can kill you and the only consequence for them is that they become purple as well.
These are the people that real PKers would love to hop on at a moment's notice. Little consequence, free loot. In this case, the people you're being protected from are protecting you, in a sense.
Such a shame this is all hypothetical. I'm really looking forward to being able to play the game : p
- Sikuba
PvEers don't necessarily care whether the person is a PKer, a hardcore PvPer, or a casual PvPer if what they want is immunity from being attacked.
You keep focusing on the killing part.
Who lives or dies is meaningless when what you want is to avoid that combat altogether.
If I'm walking through a park and someone stabs me in my back, I'm not going to think that's OK simply because the person runs away when I either ask to be left alone or yell for help.
That's not "avoiding" combat. Getting stabbed frequently while I'm minding my own business is disturbing and problematic enough regardless of whether someone dies or not. "Oh, that person who stabbed you died," doesn't really make me feel much better if I still get stabbed by other people on a fairly regular basis.
We have to play the game to see if Corruption is enough of a deterrent for Lateana to enjoy playing.
If the receiving end of the raid suffers heavy losses, then it's their fault of being unable to handle players wearing merely decent gear.
Although this kind of behaviour can be prevented without making corruption system itself more bunishing, but making outnumbering cause harder corruption penalties is one option. Also zergs should be seen (on minimap) or heard from distance so people have a chance to get away.
Make the corruption mechanic more oppressive than what is reasonably expected by PVPers, then it nullifies the risk vs. reward calculus in using unconventional PVP methods. Then Ashes loses its main selling point to a significant proportion of the playerbase.
And those additional mechanics aren't necessary. If a node's main organizing guild is incapable of setting up a halfway decent intelligence system to notify its residents of incoming attacks, then that node deserves to die.
This is from the wiki and it what I see the game as
"The developers describe to four 'pillars' of the development process. The first is the Nodes System, which is how the world interacts with the players. Second is PVP, which includes battlegrounds, guild wars, a PVE/PVP flagging (or corruption point) system and how players can catalyze change in the environment. The third pillar is the economic system. There are regional set marketplaces that caravans can travel to, to trade goods they have gathered or created. Players can even sell or trade in their own villages if they choose. The fourth pillar is the story. The story will be told in three main ways. Tasks, Events, and Narrative, with the narrative being the primary"
We will very likely have to accept that some players will find times when it feels like there is not enough Corruption-free PvP combat and some players will find times when it feels like there is too much non-consensual PvP combat.
We just have to hope that for the most part when we wish to focus on PvP combat, we will generally be able to easily find enjoyable content and when we want to focus on PvE we will generally be able to find enjoyable content.
Come play Eve, join an established alliance, observe the infrastructure set up with intel channels where fellow members notify others of enemy movements and when to get safe + standing orders on how to get safe.
That's the kind of emergent gameplay IS are gunning for with Node vs Node warfare and intrigue, and you shouldn't expect to be coddled by IS with mechanics to keep you safe.
Read what you copypasta'd, attempt to understand the scenario I wrote out above as not mere meaningless ganking but aiming to destabilize another node's economy, and hopefully you'll realize you were barking up the wrong tree.
I am a huge fan of OWPvP and especially ZvZ as long as the fights stays somehow equal. And that is also the problem, because hardly these encounters are equal or even close that. If there wont be any anti-zerging mechanics, that will create a snowball effect and group sizes will just go up. Those who suffer most are solo and small group players. This same happens in hardcore PvP games, even to that genre this kind of behaviour kind of belongs. Still you can see anti-zerging mechanics in use, because catering zergs will easily ruin the gaming experience of most of the playerbase.
And we know that Bounty Hunters will be able to track Corrupted, so seems like there will likely be a mini-map available at launch.
And, yeah, the people here concerned about PvP combat in Ashes would not touch Eve with a ten-foot pole.
Eve is notoriously PvP-centric.
point being...
its still too early to tell!
(yes, the ellipse is a useful tool that I overuse on a daily basis...!)
People attack others because they want to and/or there are rewards. That is absolute. It applies all players, whether you're Green, Purple, or Red. The incentive is balanced with Corruption, which is the deterrent to kill Green players, as well as the flagging system, which functions for everyone (Except Red in certain cases). Green player have a high incentive to kill, but also a high deterrent. Purple players have less incentive, but also a substantially lower deterrent. Red players have extremely high incentive, as well as either a deterrent equal to Purple, or none at all, depending on whether the confidence of the attacker. Based on a balance of incentives and deterrents (risk vs. reward), Purple players have a much higher ration of incentives : deterrents than Green players do, making them better targets for anyone aiming to PK. It is therefore irrational to imply that Purple players will not be attacked while green players are.
Now before you go repeating yourself once again, claiming that I am focusing too much on PKing, I would like to reiterate that the deterrent to poke and harass farming players is that, in doing so, the harassing player must flag himself Purple, making himself a target for any and all players within proximity. The reward itself is fairly minimal, taking into consideration the potential time deficit of harassing players. If you do not believe this to be enough to reduce this kind of harassment to where it will not be an issue, or at least be uncommon, then that is your opinion. You are entitled to this opinion, although I would hope that you could support it with solid logic. I, for one, do not feel as though this method will be viable, as it is both inefficient for acquiring resources and potentially dangerous for the one harassing.
Entering a game with world PvP almost ensures that you will encounter it at some point. As you said, the frequency of world PvP/PKing depends on how effective Corruption is. I would hope that there are very few people out there so intent on complete liberation from any kind of PvP that they would ignore a gem of a game such as Ashes - there are so many positives to outweigh the negatives. Thinking in terms of the game as a whole, world PvP is the only time you cannot avoid PvP. That's a lot of game, and a little, extremely regulated amount of PvP. I'm sure Lateana, as well as the rest of the PvE crowd will be perfectly happy.
- Sikuba
I look forward to raids and being raided because those are how big battles are started.
I don't think the flagging system will affect zergs and "anti zerg" mechanics will come from other places. I can see the lack of fast travel and open world nature of the game having a huge affect on zergs but only time will tell. That said, this is an MMO where you are supposed to play with others. Encouraging people to work together for protection is a way of getting players to play together.
Albion may not be hardcore enough to ultimate hardcore players, but it is still ten times more hardcore than Ashes. And thanks for inviting to take part of EvE, and even i love sandbox games, i dont like to fly with space rockets so i will pass.
And you fall to basic misunderstanding what MMORPGs are about. It does not mean that people have to group all the time to fulfill the purpose. MMORPGs are about interacting with other players and even those who plays as a solo are interacting with others all the time actively or passively, it depends what you are doing.
This system is deliberately designed to encourage Hobbesian conflict of all against all. It's frankly embarrassing on your part that for the amount of time you spend around these forums, you sound like someone who only just discovered this game two days ago. I genuinely feel embarrassed for you.