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How fast should a player get to Level 10 ?

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Comments

  • This game is meant to be casual friendly. Level 10 will be reached in 2-3 hours like every others casual friendly games.
  • Jaikant said:
    This game is meant to be casual friendly. Level 10 will be reached in 2-3 hours like every others casual friendly games.
    Not quite what the devs said. The more time you put into the game, the more rewards you get so if you don't put in the time you will fall behind just not as bad as other MMOs.
  • yes but, at least for me, level is not something concidered as an "advantage". I think it's more about making money and getting gear. Cause you right but i am right too, game want to be casual friendly, so leveling wont be that hard.
  • T-Elf said:
    Heck, I don't want to see 50s in the first month. 


    This is my sentiment too. People always use the argument, "Well don't be a casual and play more" or better yet "Why should we slow lvl progression for people playing a lot". Time spent in game should not directly reflect your level. Quality and contribution should. I can derp around killing/grinding for 5 hours to max out my XP to Time ratio or spend 2 hour questing, pvping, crafting, or raiding. People who find the max XP to grind ratio on a specific mob type should not be elevated. The players who are experiencing the game should be elevated.

    This is how games get bots, coveted grind spots, and stagnate communities. Yes all MMOs have the chance of having these 3 things, but we shouldn't help them along. 

    My last 2c: A lot of people don't actually want to play the first month now-a-days. They are cautious with "the next best MMO" and will wait a month or two. When they decide to check out AOC (and they will) do we want them to see lvl 50s everywhere? That's pretty disheartening in my book.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2018
    Bout a week for a Casual, hours for a first' or somebody who has altitis.

    I plan on Blitzing to 50, but I don't think we'll have to worry about "grind spots" as Devs have mentioned finite/mobile resource spawns.  I would imagine mobs would be the same.

  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2018
    Getting to lvl 10* within 1-2 weeks is a nightmare. Those " no lifers " will breach max lvl in less than a month

    I honestly didn't expect the 1st two options to have so many votes tbh  - I figured players would know this by now
  • So many ways to look at this, so I'll throw out some things to think about....

    - If  you can max level in a day(extreme example,) the zones and content the developers put so much time and effort into get blown through faster than they can crank out new areas with meaningful content. So one path the developers could take would be that leveling speed could be a function of their ability to add new content.

    - Will there be side progression(a.k.a. Guild Wars 2) when you hit max-level? You could take the road to max-level(1-2 months) as a training course where you now have the skills and experience to tackle the harder content. In this fashion, you can tier the end game gear with either I-level or dependencies in order to further progress (similar to FFXIV) through areas previously not possible with lower rated gear.

    - The Asian model - grind grind and grind some more(you're not doing it right if you don't have a bot program grinding for you while you sleep!) I'm not particularly fond of this as it is nothing more than a time-gate. Time gates aren't necessarily bad, but this is the laziest approach I can think of.

    Additionally, the experience gain portion of leveling could be a factor in time-to level.
    Some examples:
    - Bonus exp for chain killing. Still viable as a solo player
    - Party bonus EXP. Biased towards grouping. However, if mobs are not efficient exp to solo and LFG tools work well, then you could in theory remove the bias.
    - skill chains? (had to put this there as I miss them from ffxi)
    I do agree that the first 10 levels should come quickly, within 1-2 days tops. It gives enough exposure to the class to know if it is right for you without having you feel like you wasted your time.

    After that, it could be anyone's guess what may be implemented.


  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2018
    Spladian said:
    " ... I do agree that the first 10 levels should come quickly, within 1-2 days tops ... "
    ... seriously ? no way
    And you're thinking like a ThemePark MMO Player - GW2, FFXIV are both ThemePark MMOs
  • Sleepless nights on the grind with friends on teamspeak or ventrilo and small relaxing breaks to kick some donkeys who are trying to take over your spot. It brings a tear to my eye.

    All Day All Night~~
    All Day All Night~~
    Viva la grind
    Viva la noche
    Viva los pk'ers


  • @Eragale
    I agree, if you are not able to truly feel what level you are before leveling, you're leveling too quickly imo.

    Even in D&D, I have played some games where the progression from 1-5 was so quick I was level 6 before I had a reason to use most of my abilities. There has to be a balance for those that want it to be slow and those that just want to be done with it.

    I would prefer max level not being an accomplishment that occurs in 21-45 hours, but I understand that logic. For me personally if this was a AAA game worth $60 out of the box, I would want 60 hours required for max level. Since it's sub based, that calculation isn't as useful because I want there to be more content that 15 hours worth a month. Although to be honest there will be months where I might struggle to hit that mark.
  • Well at the moment we can make the same ammount of money at level 5, 15, 30 or 50, i dont care at all the time it take to make you go max level.
  • If I hit max level in under a year I will be disappointed. In 2 years, I'd be happy.

    I think it really takes away from the engagement and satisfaction when, like in other MMOs, you can grind for 3 months and max out and then.....start over? This is a shortsighted approach to a game that should have a solid 10 year life span.

    As a side note, when numbers get bigger small things matter more. I'd prefer to not see, say a certain damage class, be capable of grinding at a considerably faster pace with large time lines. 

    Example
    If it takes 100 days to max lvl for most, and a class "x" can do that in 50, that's kinda lame for those not that class.

    However if it takes 1000 days to max lvl for most, and that class "x" can do it in 500, that's a terrible gap that can't be surmounted on any meaningful time line.

    To many of us, the game is just beginning once you hit max level. A game is very poorly designed if someone hits max level and then think they have to start a new character. I have always looked at leveling as a way to learn the mechanics of a new class. Once you max the character then the real fun begins. 
  • I prefer the journey of leveling. Sure, when my character is at max level it is nice, but a lot of things stop being challenging. As long as the game challenges my character at every level, and leveling isn't insanely fast (like a level every 1 hour at any level) I will be okay.
  • Vramii said:
    To many of us, the game is just beginning once you hit max level. A game is very poorly designed if someone hits max level and then think they have to start a new character. I have always looked at leveling as a way to learn the mechanics of a new class. Once you max the character then the real fun begins. 
    Agreed, Max LVL is where the fun begins - if you want fun leveling drop ashes and play SWTOR where your quests involve conversations and lightside/darkside choices like betraying your quest giver and helping the poor farmers fix their water farms.

    I would say a Month to Max for a casual player, blitzing should take under a week.

    I doubt many new players will be turned on by having to play for 3 months just to hit 50.....plus you have to think about future level increases.  Suddenly that 2 months you spent on your main becomes 3 for an alt.
  • Eragale said:
    title speaks for itself  ~.~
    I think it comes down to how rewarding the progression system is. Progression should take effort, but I would like to see it be more than just a shallow time spent system. Meaningful progression doesn't have to mean an arbitrary grind for months on end to increase ones level. Especially in a game like AoC where there is a lot of potential for non-vertical progression. That mixed with a players knowledge of the game is a much better form of growth. Imho of course. This developer seems to understand that effort needs to be proportionate to the reward. Much like how they said it should take as much effort to siege a node as build it. I think we can expect good things in terms of progression. Personally I hope reaching level cap is just the beginning in AoC!
  • For some reason I voted before refreshing my memory on the level cap. I don't care for the level cap being 50... I am one that prefers a very low cap. 

    Anyways, I'd like to see less than a week to get to it. cap should take months of decent gameplay time.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2018
     " ... but I would like to see it be more than just a shallow time spent system ... " 
    i never thought of leveling-up as a Grind - i always thought of it as a Journey, each lvl being something that a player earns. Instead, in Modern MMOs, you've come to realize that Leveling-up is not being earned in MMOs anymore ... rather its being given to them

    Player A:
    • " GAAAAAWWWD ... I'm so f!cking newb/noob/nuub as this sh!tty LvL 1 ... can't wait to get Leveled-up/ can't wait to get Geared "
    NOTE:which it doesn't have to be designed this way - as described above
    • what if a Low-Lvl can defend himself/herself from a High-Lvl and win or survive?
    ... or any other poorly constructed MMO to where LvL, Gear solely decides how "strong" a player is . ( could be other things i missed out too

    But then again, i guess its the Devs of those MMOs which is why its commonly portrayed as a (boring) grind - its not designed to be fun ... as such, thats why it's Player-Base view it the same way

    I think it comes down to how rewarding the progression system is
     ... 
    I think we can expect good things in terms of progression. Personally I hope reaching level cap is just the beginning in AoC!

    Touche, but why not have both ? 
    • Experience the Journey that a Players earns ( not a (boring) Grind )
    • Rewarding Progression ( not spoon-fed nor rushing through levels etc ...  )
    • Level-Cap is just the Beginning ( ... still thinking that NO LEVEL-CAP might be better )


    1. but not " too rewarding " via getting to level-cap in 1 month ... think Original EverQuest & Vanilla WoW.
    1.  As for " no level-cap " ... think of something similar to RuneScape ... I at least hope Intrepid considers an Iteration of Ashes of Creation with no level-cap during testing phases - to see what others think of it 


  • I think the question should be answered in hours. A month for a casual and a week for a hardcore player is meaningless to me.

    40 hours, imo, is nice.
    If all you do is game, then after a solid week of work you can reach max level.
    If you are a part time gamer, then maybe two weeks?
    A weekend gamer, 8 weeks?

    Again, I would personally like the level cap to take what feels like a decent amount of time based on what my character is doing. In Ashes where we supposedly have lots of land to explore in a very open way, leveling should take longer. It should not be a linear tutorial to max level.

    As much as I love being occupied, I also hope that some of the wilderness is calm so I can run about for a few minutes or more without finding a mob, city, castle, etc.
  • Shouldn't take years to hit max but shouldn't be a week either. Level 10 should take maybe 10 hours max. Preferably though I think faster leveling than vanilla wow feels better than slower leveling. Sure you earn it but you also get bored out of your mind if it's too slow. Also with this game having experience debt leveling to max better not take too long or 1 griefer can set you back hours and hours of leveling if you get ganked.
  • The focus should not be on level cap.
    Rather, the focus should be on a steady progression of new, engaging content - with minimal "grind".
  • yeah I think the poll would have been better if it asked how much game time should it take to hit 10 (And for the love of everything, remind idiots like me that the cap is going to be 50)
  • After further thought, now I'm kinda wishing i picked " 4-5 months instead:D
  • It should take less than a day.. Like 10 quests.
  • Eragale said:
     " ... but I would like to see it be more than just a shallow time spent system ... " 
    i never thought of leveling-up as a Grind - i always thought of it as a Journey, each lvl being something that a player earns. Instead, in Modern MMOs, you've come to realize that Leveling-up is not being earned in MMOs anymore ... rather its being given to them

    Player A:
    • " GAAAAAWWWD ... I'm so f!cking newb/noob/nuub as this sh!tty LvL 1 ... can't wait to get Leveled-up/ can't wait to get Geared "
    NOTE:which it doesn't have to be designed this way - as described above
    • what if a Low-Lvl can defend himself/herself from a High-Lvl and win or survive?
    ... or any other poorly constructed MMO to where LvL, Gear solely decides how "strong" a player is . ( could be other things i missed out too

    But then again, i guess its the Devs of those MMOs which is why its commonly portrayed as a (boring) grind - its not designed to be fun ... as such, thats why it's Player-Base view it the same way

    I think it comes down to how rewarding the progression system is
     ... 
    I think we can expect good things in terms of progression. Personally I hope reaching level cap is just the beginning in AoC!

    Touche, but why not have both ? 
    • Experience the Journey that a Players earns ( not a (boring) Grind )
    • Rewarding Progression ( not spoon-fed nor rushing through levels etc ...  )
    • Level-Cap is just the Beginning ( ... still thinking that NO LEVEL-CAP might be better )


    1. but not " too rewarding " via getting to level-cap in 1 month ... think Original EverQuest & Vanilla WoW.
    1.  As for " no level-cap " ... think of something similar to RuneScape ... I at least hope Intrepid considers an Iteration of Ashes of Creation with no level-cap during testing phases - to see what others think of it 


     I'm definitely hoping for multiple avenues of progression.

    People asking progression to take 3+ month with no real details on the progression of character or content are just of a different mindset than myself. Which is fine we can both agree on not wanting things to come easily. Some people feel a real sense of accomplishment from time spent systems. Vertical leveling systems are fine and to be build upon not reduced to nothing. I personally look elsewhere in games to carve out my story. A journey might begin with a single step, But one foot in front of the other doesn't make for a very interesting one. lol

    No level cap is another beast entirely. I think we would all be ok with a game where progress was ever present. Getting our way there though might be a tough ask.  lol

  • CosmicChaos said:
    I'm definitely hoping for multiple avenues of progression ... "
    ^
  • I would like to spend less time leveling, and have more rare gear in the world and other stuff to build my character up.

    Leveling can be such a bore, not everyone likes to grind 24/7, or have levels be more of a statement, a show of piece rather than it effecting your stats.


    I'd take the exact opposite stance. Gear should have as small as possible effect on the combat. Dont get me wrong, it should have stats and grades etc, but small numbers. 

    But this isn't  a Diablo game.

    I'd prefer the skill of players to outshine the luck or wealth of players. By that I mean, if you get lucky and some badass gear drops for you, and I have crafted normal gear, I should still have a solid chance of beating you based on skill selection, timing and footwork. 

    I can always go grind more levels to increase my power. And so can everyone else with equal opportunity. But if I never get that lucky drop, I shouldn't be relegated to a default loss to those who do. Leave luck in the casinos and skill in the games. 

    Also, it should be a moot point, but lots of awesome gear is a key mechanic that p2w games turn to. Buy that gear, beat everyone who didn't. Not even having that possibility sound great to me.

    -CS
    Sadly, I have to disagree. I really enjoy gear having an impactful role on gameplay. Having recently taken up Path of Exile, a game with plentiful rare and unique gear drops, I really enjoy the idea of finding a weapon or piece of armor that sets me apart from every other player at that level. Even if I'm not the player who finds said unique weapon, the idea of possibly finding something incredibly rare and powerful someday is extremely exciting. While luck can indeed be frustrating, if the reward it is a doorway to is not a requirement for having a fun experience, it adds an aspect of wonderment every time you loot a mob that could potentially drop said item. Having rare gear that is more than just a stat bonus could also be interesting, as unique passive abilities associated with said gear could make certain pieces memorable, especially during the leveling process. 

    However, than main difference from you and I is that I prefer PvE content. Gear scaling in PvE isn't as big as an issue as for PvP, so I guess from a strictly PvP aspect I can see where you're coming from especially since every server is PvP. For skill based combat, arena fights will always be an option, but if PvP is your preference then I guess you'd prefer it be that way in open world as well. Its a difficult thing to balance, but I have faith the Ashes team will manage. 
  • I honestly can not remember the last game where I was not level 10 after day one. 
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2018
    Sintu said:
    I honestly can not remember the last game where I was not level 10 after day one. 
    Exactly, thats because, in Modern MMOs, Levels 1 - 10 were designed to be forgotten - something thats " modernly " perceived as noob/newb/nuub + Boring Grind for Lvls

    But each level could have more depth than that as opposed to seeing it as 
     " another boring grind "
    • For example, would be neat to see a LvL 3 Player defeating a LvL 8 Player . All because the LvL 3 choose to explore the game as opposed to trying to rush through it ... there are other ways to get stronger without focusing entirely on Leveling-up ( *if its designed this way* )
    • If its designed " this " way then it'll incentivize taking your time and enjoying the Game. As opposed to how other MMOs do it .. which could be capitalized by making the leveling process longer than usual
  • If Ashes goes the route of the first '10' levels being nothing more than a glorified tutorial I will be sad. We all want to be able to do amazing and epic things with our characters, but if we all just started there it would get boring super fast. Might as well go play Mortal Combat with your buddies.

    I understand having some tutorials pop-up throughout the first 10 levels due to not having access to everything at level 1, but if I make it to level 10 before I can strike out on my own that might as well have just been 1 level.
  • Azathoth said:
    If Ashes goes the route of the first '10' levels being nothing more than a glorified tutorial I will be sad. We all want to be able to do amazing and epic things with our characters, but if we all just started there it would get boring super fast. Might as well go play Mortal Combat with your buddies.

    I understand having some tutorials pop-up throughout the first 10 levels due to not having access to everything at level 1, but if I make it to level 10 before I can strike out on my own that might as well have just been 1 level.
    I agree, level shouldn't be tied to the tutorials at all.  I've always been a fan of gated tutorial areas, where you have to learn/perform all of the basics before it will even let you out into the real free world.  And xp during that tutorial mini quest playground should be severely restricted, so as most people would be only 1-2 levels when dumping out of it.
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