I don't mind the week leveling for 1-10. But if the cap is 40 or 50, I DO NOT want to see people at cap in 3 weeks because they have no lives. My goal would be to hit cap after a few months of playing a handful of hours a day. That way after a 3-4 months of playing, I can really dive into the game.
I think this depends on the max level ingame. In my opinion it should take a good while to reach the max lv, like around 2-3 months or so. The way is the goal, isnt it :P?
So well to be lv 10 in 1 week or 2 is not bad, if the progression line is going straight up in the higher levels.
If LvL 10 is desired to be achieved within 1 week .... and IF that rate remains constant ... you'd see MAX LvL-Cap in 1 month. And thats a no-go for me
I know that ... " the rate " is based on how much time you put into it - but one would have to take into consideration for those who have lots of time/ " no lifers " / willing to put 13+ hours per-day into the game
Which isn't a bad thing - it should be enjoyable, and this would, more or less, be a good sign ( to some degree )
Plus i don't think Ashes of Creation will be designed to brush-aside everything like that from the get-go
I don't mind the week leveling for 1-10. But if the cap is 40 or 50, I DO NOT want to see people at cap in 3 weeks because they have no lives. My goal would be to hit cap after a few months of playing a handful of hours a day. That way after a 3-4 months of playing, I can really dive into the game.
If it takes you a couple months to hit cap with a "handful of hours" a day it's only going to take people like me (with much more free time and ability to play 8+ hours a day) a few weeks (if that.. I'm not above taking a few days off work for a new game) to accomplish the same goal.
That's typically why I stick to MMOs because I can beat most console/single player games within a span of a few days and it's not really worth the money while MMOs typically roll out new content at a decent Pace with enough difficulty to not get bored... Well even that hasn't really been the case lately most games have been face roll easy.
To me hitting max level in about ~15 days played (in game) is reasonable. That's similar to how it was in Classic WoW and I always liked the speed of leveling in that game. So if you're casual maybe it would take ~20-30 days played instead.
Ideally id want the first couple of levels to be fairly fast and the mid point semi fast and the last levels the slowest. So if you have 50 max levels, 1-20 could be fairly fast, 20-40 it starts to slow down but it's not daunting. Then 40-50 can be the slowest part of the leveling.
I hope there is enough content that a much slower leveling system is completely overlooked by the hardcore gamers. Gamers that generally put in small numbers of hours every week (me) but try to P2W to catch up to Hardcore gamers (not me, I refuse to play and pay to be good) should be very disappointed with this game.
...and that would be good and should be okay with IS.
At this point I have no clear answer for how fast or how
slow I would want to level. All I know is give me a reason and I would NOT want
to level fast. Yet give me another reason and I would want to level faster.
But one reason that makes me want to try this game is
precisely because I think there is lots more to this game than worrying about
how fast to level.
I think the name of this game is “Strategy”. Am hoping the
strategy in this game would dictate that sometimes you would want to level fast
and sometimes you would want to level slowest possible. The rest am not worried
about because we will all eventually hit the cap one way or another, sooner or
later…
In short, I will have to hit the grounds and understand
better the possibilities in this game then I can better weight pros and cons of
to level fast or slow at each level then make a decision!
Am not saying is not better to level fast, but
then who knows? Maybe for one reason or another it would be better at some
points not to concentrate on leveling fast. It remains to be seen as what we are exactly faced with on so many levels..
Am hoping there is a hidden Chess game within this game as you move ahead and am hoping is not all about who is the highest level and how fast! 'cause otherwise it'll be another boring game after a while just like the rest of them LOL
Keep in mind that content is also node dependent. So even if you are max level if you only stayed around a specific city node and its corresponding smaller nodes that it took over then you moved yourself across the world you would have new things around plus the travel time to pack up and move, without fast traveling moving your base of operations would be a time investment.
There are also things you can level independent of character level. For instance if you were mostly land-locked and move to the coast now you can work on all those boat skills you didn't have a chance to.
So even at max level there will still be exploring the areas you didn't level in and having to actually find new raids and dungeons to participate in, plus the seasonal content opening and closing areas.
So it is going to be interesting to see what engaging in max level content actually entails because it is going to be area, season, and server dependent on how nodes develop and which nodes you belong to and organize around. And if you want to move and go hunting new content your going to have to commit to moving and probably make friends in whatever area you move to in order to figure out where things are and what there is to do.
@Zeryamerx , Then you may want to listen to the answer of this LiveStream Question. It won't seem like it relates to what you posted at first ... but parts should (at the very least) be relate-able to your concerns. Its kinda long, but hear them out
@Eragale Yes I know they can switch citizenship, but it is still a time investment, you have to pack up your gear, move, find a new place to pop down your freehold or house, and if your guild doesn't have much of a presence in that part of the world make friends and learn the terrain layout and where the appropriate dungeons, raids, resources, etc are.
I never said you couldn't swap citizenship, just pointed out it is a time investment moving a base of operations requires more then just fast traveling to the new content hub that is in most MMOs.
Sure if you've leveled to max level as a solo-player and just keep moving away from people its not going to be as much of an investment, but you still have to take the time to move to a new area and find out where the level appropriate content is for you every time the node changes or you move nodes, so there will still be a learning process. And if you want to do any group content you are going to have to make friends in the node you end up in if the people you knew and grouped with in a previous node didn't follow you.
With no fast travel communities are going to know their regulars and it will be easier to keep up with a players reputation, moving to another area once things get a bit settled might invoke a response of "What are you running from" mentality in some areas.
Another note, skill points in trees are somewhat limited. So if you were land locked and built your skill set around that and then moved to the peninsula I am not sure if you will really be able to just start leveling water oriented skills. Maybe, I am not sure.
We still dont even properly know how tough it will be to kill monsters etc. and such things are a large factor of leveling, also it depends how much time a person can commit to playing when they specify 1 week, 2 weeks etc.
@Eragale; Thank you so much for the link. That answered my concerns very well. I knew this game is not going to be boring. Just awesome. I am very exited about this game.
I really enjoy a grind for leveling providing its worth the effort. It's why I enjoy Ragnarok Online. I can remember spending days on a single level. Sitting to restore HP and SP between fights. While it was the hard way to do things it's the experience I'm looking for. I'd settle for a week equating to 6hours per day played.
With Bless Online, it takes like an hour to get to level 10. You reach max level (45) after one day of playing. Where's the challenge in that? Personally, as a long time RPer, the longer it takes to level the better, as when you're running around and you see that one or two high level character(s), you'll know they truly earned it by dedicating the time into it.
Found a link ... thats probably the most important out of every other link that I posted in this Thread ... its (kind of ) a direct/ specified answer https://youtu.be/BQw0Z2UBAhI?t=19m30s
The longer it takes to level the better. Why? Because they will feel more invested in your character. In City Of Heroes it took a while to level and the result was that it felt like an event. I miss that.
People should really include how many hours they play per day, because if I play 10+ per day and somebody says that it should take more than a month to get to level 10 it's prone to create some conflict.
I voted for 1 week only because it was the shortest one. But I agree with quite a few people who have pointed these options don't mean much without context.
I think hitting max level shouldn't take more that 20-30 days of /played for a slower player 12-15 for a good player who knows what they are doing. Assuming a max level of 50, 1-10 should take a few hours tops, and leveling should start significantly slowing down after 20. You want the first few levels to be quicker so people want to keep playing. I doubt you'll have high retention if it takes 4 months time for the average player to level to 10.
Setting up leveling so a no-lifer (most would consider someone who plays for 5+ hours a day a no-lifer) takes 6 months of time to hit max level means a casual player (5-6 hours a week maybe) has no chance of ever hitting it. If we say a month has 4 weeks to make the math simple that means it would take a casual player 2 years to hit max level. I sincerely doubt a huge number of people want to just level for 2 years.
Right now it is like asking a blind person how much this pair of glasses should cost. They have an idea from what they have heard, they may have been sighted at one point so they have an opinion, but once you hand it to them, they are going to figure out it is a potato peeler.
Since Race has Stats that increases everytime a Character levels-up, it'll indirecltly incentivize speed-leveling to get stronger. And then Ashes of Creation will have the impression as ... " another MMORPG with a different skin "
I'm only saying this, because you got to be open-minded on how others might think
I don't think that so much is tied to the leveling system that allowing race stats to level will somehow put Ashes in with all previous MMORPG's.
Well, just considering Hitpoints (health, whatever it's called) is likely to increase (or be increasing) every level will lead to the same desire to power level. Ashes might have HP as a function of base race stats + armor, but anything that improves naturally through leveling can be said to encourage power/speed leveling.
I think a lot of suggestions that are counter-intuitive or against the direction IS is going, if followed, would lead to it feeling like just another MMORPG.
leveling systems are merely long tutorials. your characters will be max level for the majority of their playtime.
leveling is nothing but grind and unfun in most games you accomplish nothing and any items you obtain are worthless in minutes. then you never bother doing that content unless you want to make a new character.
why waste time developing low level areas when people could just start out at max level and spend their points as they want. less time would be put building the low level areas for people to have their extra long tutorials and more time put on actual content.
I find there are three general opinions on this specific topic.
The first is the one expressed here - max level is all that matters, thrown in with various amounts of "why bother with the rest?"
The second opinion is "only leveling content is any fun, don't bother with end game content" - this opinion usually contains various amounts of "don't even bother with end game content, it's a waste of time".
The third opinion - the opinion I happen to have - is "leveling content and end game content are different beasts, both are important, yet neither one is more important than the other, so do a good job of both".
I tend to level up my main as fast as I can in any game I play. Almost without doubt though, I then go back and level an alt up much slower, to get a better feel for the game world and it's lore.
Archeage is the only exception to this - I found the way the lore was presented in that game too awkward to enjoy.
Well, just considering Hitpoints (health, whatever it's called) is likely to increase (or be increasing) every level will lead to the same desire to power level.
After seeing how Blizzard had to "squash" the numbers (which had gotten greatly ridiculous) I hope that IS takes a serious look at ESO (as well as any other MMOs which went the same route) and the small incremental gains between levels - This would both better future proof it as well as allow for a much smaller disparity between mid-level and end-level stats.
Should IS go this route then those rushing to max level are not gaining a hugely comparative edge over mid-level players and give all players an excuse to slow down and enjoy the content.
Comments
So well to be lv 10 in 1 week or 2 is not bad, if the progression line is going straight up in the higher levels.
Well here's the thing ...
- If LvL 10 is desired to be achieved within 1 week .... and IF that rate remains constant ... you'd see MAX LvL-Cap in 1 month. And thats a no-go for me
I know that ... " the rate " is based on how much time you put into it - but one would have to take into consideration for those who have lots of time/ " no lifers " / willing to put 13+ hours per-day into the gameThat's typically why I stick to MMOs because I can beat most console/single player games within a span of a few days and it's not really worth the money while MMOs typically roll out new content at a decent Pace with enough difficulty to not get bored... Well even that hasn't really been the case lately most games have been face roll easy.
...and that would be good and should be okay with IS.
https://youtu.be/3UIqmWTGZ2k?t=10m ( ends at 11:53 )
At this point I have no clear answer for how fast or how slow I would want to level. All I know is give me a reason and I would NOT want to level fast. Yet give me another reason and I would want to level faster.
But one reason that makes me want to try this game is precisely because I think there is lots more to this game than worrying about how fast to level.
I think the name of this game is “Strategy”. Am hoping the strategy in this game would dictate that sometimes you would want to level fast and sometimes you would want to level slowest possible. The rest am not worried about because we will all eventually hit the cap one way or another, sooner or later…
In short, I will have to hit the grounds and understand better the possibilities in this game then I can better weight pros and cons of to level fast or slow at each level then make a decision!
Am not saying is not better to level fast, but then who knows? Maybe for one reason or another it would be better at some points not to concentrate on leveling fast. It remains to be seen as what we are exactly faced with on so many levels..
Am hoping there is a hidden Chess game within this game as you move ahead and am hoping is not all about who is the highest level and how fast! 'cause otherwise it'll be another boring game after a while just like the rest of them LOL
There are also things you can level independent of character level. For instance if you were mostly land-locked and move to the coast now you can work on all those boat skills you didn't have a chance to.
So even at max level there will still be exploring the areas you didn't level in and having to actually find new raids and dungeons to participate in, plus the seasonal content opening and closing areas.
So it is going to be interesting to see what engaging in max level content actually entails because it is going to be area, season, and server dependent on how nodes develop and which nodes you belong to and organize around. And if you want to move and go hunting new content your going to have to commit to moving and probably make friends in whatever area you move to in order to figure out where things are and what there is to do.
@GrimHarlequin
Players can switch their Node Citizenship at anytime
https://youtu.be/yzBxKoH7erU?t=22m57s (ends at 23:59 )
You don't have to move with the "herd" if you don't want to.I never said you couldn't swap citizenship, just pointed out it is a time investment moving a base of operations requires more then just fast traveling to the new content hub that is in most MMOs.
Sure if you've leveled to max level as a solo-player and just keep moving away from people its not going to be as much of an investment, but you still have to take the time to move to a new area and find out where the level appropriate content is for you every time the node changes or you move nodes, so there will still be a learning process. And if you want to do any group content you are going to have to make friends in the node you end up in if the people you knew and grouped with in a previous node didn't follow you.
With no fast travel communities are going to know their regulars and it will be easier to keep up with a players reputation, moving to another area once things get a bit settled might invoke a response of "What are you running from" mentality in some areas.
Why?
Because they will feel more invested in your character.
In City Of Heroes it took a while to level and the result was that it felt like an event.
I miss that.
People should be thinking more about progression than they are about leveling.
I think hitting max level shouldn't take more that 20-30 days of /played for a slower player 12-15 for a good player who knows what they are doing. Assuming a max level of 50, 1-10 should take a few hours tops, and leveling should start significantly slowing down after 20. You want the first few levels to be quicker so people want to keep playing. I doubt you'll have high retention if it takes 4 months time for the average player to level to 10.
Setting up leveling so a no-lifer (most would consider someone who plays for 5+ hours a day a no-lifer) takes 6 months of time to hit max level means a casual player (5-6 hours a week maybe) has no chance of ever hitting it. If we say a month has 4 weeks to make the math simple that means it would take a casual player 2 years to hit max level. I sincerely doubt a huge number of people want to just level for 2 years.
Well, just considering Hitpoints (health, whatever it's called) is likely to increase (or be increasing) every level will lead to the same desire to power level. Ashes might have HP as a function of base race stats + armor, but anything that improves naturally through leveling can be said to encourage power/speed leveling.
I think a lot of suggestions that are counter-intuitive or against the direction IS is going, if followed, would lead to it feeling like just another MMORPG.
The first is the one expressed here - max level is all that matters, thrown in with various amounts of "why bother with the rest?"
The second opinion is "only leveling content is any fun, don't bother with end game content" - this opinion usually contains various amounts of "don't even bother with end game content, it's a waste of time".
The third opinion - the opinion I happen to have - is "leveling content and end game content are different beasts, both are important, yet neither one is more important than the other, so do a good job of both".
I tend to level up my main as fast as I can in any game I play. Almost without doubt though, I then go back and level an alt up much slower, to get a better feel for the game world and it's lore.
Archeage is the only exception to this - I found the way the lore was presented in that game too awkward to enjoy.