Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
I think solo players definitely should be able to play the game, enjoy it and level and quest just the same. I don't think quests or anything should be locked because you're playing solo, but I don't think they should just be given items that groups have worked for. If you're REALLY putting in the time and want to play solo, then you should be just as powerful, if not just a bit lower than everyone else. I thought the whole point of MMORPGs was to make friends and socialize, but then again I'm not one to judge anyone for what they like. If you enjoy playing solo, you should be able to BUT I really don't think you should just be handed gear and be able to compete with higher end players that play in groups and interact with people.
In summary I don't believe solo players should be able to be as strong as someone who is in groups and looking for people to do stuff with, but I DO think solo players should be able to do everything a person who plays in a group does. I just think it would take a lot of meaning out of group play if you could just be alone and play solo and do everything just the same. I don't think solo players should be killing raid bosses and defeating world bosses, stuff like that. I do think IS should take in mind the solo experience, if people like being alone and doing stuff then heccin let them..! no dumb restrictions to quests or anything like that.
But i do believe there should be plenty of areas that are meant for only 1 person. A Labyrinth is the first thing that comes to mind and can be very dependent on a single players skill level and different Labyrinths can prove more difficult than others giving appropriate rewards. Giving lone wolf players an opportunity to acquire gear or other rewards by completing objectives that are equivalently as difficult as large group content but require more single player skill rather than group coordination would be a great thing. It would diversify the game and allow a player to have difficult and rewarding content whether their guild mates or friends are on or not. But single player content shouldn't give the same item as something from group content. It can be equal in value but a major part of making a raid/dungeon/world event of any kind significant is quite often getting a reward from it that is unique to that specific place or boss which is related to the Lore.
If we're talking about crafting/artisan classes then basically it should be impossible to get anywhere high leveled with out the contributions of other players (whether that's through guilds/commerce market/stalls/ect..).
If we're talking about adventuring class, then they should be able to progress to the max level, though with some difficulty (comparative to group play). Group play should have higher xp, better possibility of hunting high level monsters, ect.. which puts a solo player at a disadvantage.
If we're talking about gear progression, then without other players being involved i'm unsure how they would be able to keep up with the general population. Sure they may be able to pick up a sword form an NPC but crafting materials for the best weapons will be dropped in dungeons, assuming that they are somewhat rare then how would they get their hands on boss drop items to craft their gear?
(At least this are my thoughts on the topic after a few minutes of contemplation)
If you are basing this statement on "Apocalypse", I can see why you'd feel that way. But, "Apocalypse" is not the Ashes of Creation MMORPG. The main MMORPG will have PvE content.
As for my own thoughts, as others have already said, it's important that we have plenty to do solo, as well as in groups. There needs to be plenty of story and questing that can be done alone. If I progress to a point where my only remaining options for gameplay are centered around group play, I will quickly tire of it. I like group content and believe there should be plenty that can only be done with a group. But, I also need something to do when I play solo, either because my friends aren't on, or because I just feel like playing alone for a while.
Personally I think that at lower levels you should be able to explore the world any way you'd want. Be that solo or with a group of friends. Questing together can be super fun, but I also highly enjoy exploring a world by myself at my own pace.
In the most MMO's that I played questing was something you did by yourself (as questing as a group or duo was often a horrible experience.. which I'll describe a bit more down below***) and for instances/dungeon's that you'd encounter throughout questing and leveling up you'd have a party finder that would queue you up with others that had no party.
However, once you get higher levels I think it would be a good idea to implement more and more guild mechanics and dungeons that would be harder to do with random people vs a group that knows how to work together. That way people can still choose to go through the game solo, and complete the main quest line, but if they would want to join guild related events like guild wars (large scale guild vs guild pvp), castle sieges, etc they would have to join a group. The basic game (main quest line) would be available for everybody, but if you want the full experience you'd have to join a group/guild/clan.
Another note is that at the start, everybody will be leveling up at around the same pace, but once the game has been released for a year or two it can get very hard to find people to group with for lower level dungeons if you're not in a clan/guild. And while you'll always have people standing around the highest level dungeons to group up, you won't see that happen around the lower level dungeons so often anymore.
So at the lower levels it might always be a good idea to have a solo option for dungeons, where the higher you go the more and more time it would take to complete solo vs with a group. (at the first 20-ish levels you could complete it in basically the same time; at lvl 20-40 you'd take about 10minutes longer if you're solo; at lvl 40-50 you'd take about 30minutes longer to finish solo compared to if you were in a group)
Additionally there could be special quests that you can only do with a group, that wouldn't directly influence the main quest line or give you very powerful items, but it would be a very fun experience and could possibly reward you with original cosmetics that you'd otherwise not be able to get.
***The one thing I noticed in other MMO's is how often quests are badly designed for groups and especially duo's.
The two biggest types of quests you see in every game that are horrible for team play are:
Here you'll have to find something in the world, but it's either way too abundant making it just a tedious task or there's only enough for one person and the respawn times are insanely long, making it horrible for groups or duo.
This is often a randomized drop, so sometimes after a slay you'll get a drop but most of the time you wont. In every mmo I played this never counted as the party number, but always as an individual number. Where in many cases one of us would end up with all the caps in 5 minutes while the other person would take around 10 minutes.. And mobs that I would slay would in many games just drop the item for me, and not for the other party members.
A possible solution would be to have a system in place that would check your party size.
for example if you have 1 person in your party (solo) you'd have to gather 10 mushrooms
if there are 2 people in your party you'd have to gather 20 mushrooms (technically a bit less due to the fact that most people don't coordinate perfectly) .. and so on.
A possible solution for kill quests would be to have that same system check your party size and adjust the amount of kills accordingly.
And lastly a possible solution for slay these monsters and gather their 'x' would also be to check the party size and make the gathering amount for the entire party, and not for one person as individual.
In short (tl;dr):
I think that the core game (main quest line) should be available for everybody. Exploring the world is something a lot of people like to do at their own pace, and the same goes for questing.
However I also think that the higher you go, the more you learn about the world, the more you should be nudged toward joining a group/guild/clan with things like castle sieges/guild wars/...
That way the people who just want to play for the main quest line can do that at their own pace, but people who look for more out of the game and want the complete experience will be looking to join a team.
Additionally it would be great if there was a way to make quests more enjoyable for groups/parties/duo's because in most mmo's that I've tried they basically forced you to quest solo and just do instances/dungeons together.
I wrote down my desired user stories as such because soloing has become too viable in recent MMOs, and they have virtually killed the social aspect of the genre which made it great in the early 2000s. People still speak fondly of vanilla WoW not because the PVE or PVP content were exceptionally great at the time, but because the mechanics brought people together to work towards a common goal and fostered tighter communities as a result.
The more recent "Kirito Effect" from Sword Art Online has also fostered increased antisocial behavior and desires which can be seen in posts above mine, and this needs to be discouraged.
From a gearing standpoint though I hope that anyone with enough in game currency can get anything, -MAKING SURE- that the ingame currency earned was created only by ingame antics.
Formerly T-Elf
That said I think it would be dissapointing to reach a point in the game that forced me into an 8man party in order to continue progressing to max level. I think the process of leveling 1-50 or whatever it may be, should be able to be done completely by yourself.
There may be good reasons to group for certain quests that may to be difficult etc, but I think it's important to let the player decide. Maybe playing solo will make their progression harder or slower, but at least they retain the choice in their adventure. Players grow attachment to their characters. If a player is forced into a situation they don't like it will detract from their experience.
To use an example, vanilla wow had roughly 1 dungeon available to people every 5-10 levels on their way to level 60. These would give you good equipment which would make future encounters easier and allow you to complete quests that granted high experience. However, you were in no way required to enter a single one to get to level 60. They were always optional.
I'm not sure that is the right way to go about it though. Exploring, Gathering, Crafting, Survival, Killing, and PvP XP I think should be limited to a certain level, a Max Level if you will, for each way to gain XP. Exploring and Gathering could be maxed out at lvl 10, after that those gave no further level XP. Crafting and Survival XP maybe maxed out at lvl 20 and not giving more level XP after that. Killing XP possibly maxed out at level 30, and can't gain more levels after that through killing.
PvP might be the only one not maxed out BUT capped in how much you can get depending on the level and resistance from your opponent. If you fight someone that doesn't fight back there's no XP at all. Same goes when fighting someone of a lower level than yourself, or a certain amount of levels under you. Only when engaging equal or higher level opponents would you gain level XP though PvP.
This might not be valid when joining Arena or Castle fights, or Sieges.
I'd like there to be separate XP gains and levels for different ways too, Gathering XP carries on after level 10 towards Gathering expertise but not to your level, for instance. So you could only get to Level 10 through only Gathering but to be able to gather better materials, or more materials at the same time, or better quality materials, you would still be getting Gathering XP put towards Gathering Rank, or Level, or Grade, or Pedigree, whatever it might be called so that you could achieve those goals too.
The rest of the XP needed for levelling would have to be met by other Ways. Quests, dungeons, raids, and PvP content being the most obvious ones, but also by playing a part in World Events, Grouped or not with others there, possibly by undertaking some class training (part of quests perhaps), and through helping, socialising if you may, other players. Assisting a lower level character through an area not able to be passed Solo, grouping to take on some harder enemies, maybe even having the Gathering, Killing and Exploring XP level caps increased if doing them in harder areas, Solo or in Group (Solo perhaps by piggybacking on one or more groups).
(The levels I've mentioned are examples, could be other level caps than those, depending on what would fit more.)
In an open world I do thing, to make it more real and alive, some areas would simply be too difficult to enter solo, be they camps of goblins, marshlands with too many snakes simply packed too close together to pass through safely, troll caves with trolls too tough to beat solo (unless suitably higher level or simply very, very skilled), and so on and on. The level of Nodes would, I imagine, also determine if there were more or less of such areas as well, where higher level Nodes had more areas where you'd need 2, 3 or more players to basically even enter.
That said there should still be a bunch of areas Solo players can go to do their stuff, possibly even where only Solo players are able to accomplish anything as the wildlife, being good of hearing and sensing and such, would run off too far for a group to be able to sneak up on them. That shy Silver Swan will flee away if more than one person tries to get close, even if that one person isn't being stealthy enough and trampling around with a Mule on it's heels, or running and not walking slowly.
In the area of Solo v Group content aggro range comes in too. The more noise a group is making the further the aggro range can be so that groups entering an area will find itself opposed by more opponents than a duo group or solo player would, not to the level of making it easier for Solo or Duo compared to Group but to not make it way too hard for them. Despite that aggro ranges where one can get too close except when sneaking properly just feels weird.
So a Solo player might be able to attract a mere 2 opponents while a Duo group would be approached by 3, or possibly 4, and a group get ambushed by 6 of them as the opponents heard and saw them from a long enough distance to be able to affect an ambush.
That being said, some classes should be geared more toward allowing a person to explore the wilds alone...albeit they will not be able to kill everything, or even a large number of mobs, but they will at least be able to do some one on one fights by themselves, and if are careful will be able to carefully scout areas a level or so higher then themselves. However, those people who want to run with one (spouses) or two friends (or more) should be able to take on higher level areas, with greater challenges.
I love MMORPGs because they are social games. I want to talk to people, meet up with people, do emotes and dance parties with people. I want to try and solve jump puzzles with people, and show off like parts of kick ass hidden terrain with folks. I don't want to listen to some one call every racial nasty comment they can think of, I don't want to run across the people who scream 'women are only made for ******, so why are you on this game?!' (which btw is one reason why I will never again get into Voice chat with people unless I have talked to them ingame for a LONG time), and I don't want to game with the person who screams every political or religious issue that crosses their minds. For them I hope we will have an endless blacklist, and a way to report them.
Do I want to solo PARTS of the game? Hell yes! I also want to run the game with my husband, brother, and other friends. Do I want to be locked INTO only being able to run the game with them? No. I have no issues with dungeons being with groups, I EXPECT dungeons to be harder content, and to need a group of three or more to all work together. Do I want to have to run with a group when I want to run up a mountain, and see what is in that cave at the VERY top, and have to spend the next two hours trying to figure out how to get up to it (usually to find out that the path was RIGHT THERE), no. I want to be able to explore on my own. I want to scout areas, and giggle at the little hidden jokes all on my own. Eventually I will nab someone and take them to the new areas, but honestly, do I REALLY want to share that kick ass fishing hole with someone else, who might steal my market?
Someone you otter know.
Yea, that was on purpose. Pun tax me.
To begin with, "progression" in the game should have gateways. Just like from the old TV Show "Kung Fu" where the Master says, "When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave", so too should the player be able to prove their mastery before starting the next progression step. And it should feel seamless, an organic mechanic of the game.
Games from the old days would ensure that before you fought The Boss, you had previously dealt with every mechanic it could throw at you. Now, The Boss might use ALL of those mechanics at once, and thus forcing you to adapt to the current situation, but having proved your mastery over each of those mechanics individually means you're at least ready to try and defeat him.
The games would also ensure you had access to the right equipment before getting to The Boss. This was simple enough since the game designer knew all the numbers at play, and therefore what your Power and Defense numbers should look like by the time you got to The Boss.
I don't see an Online MMO working any differently. The designers should have a relative idea of what each character in the fight is capable of bringing to the table, and creating "roadblocks" to ensure those characters are ready before continuing on.
For example, let's say you're about to enter a dungeon. To get past some parts of the dungeon, locks might need to be picked in order to get a necessary item for the next stage of the dungeon. If your character has access to lockpicking, is it high enough to even have a chance? Sure, it might take a few tries, and you might have to dodge traps while picking the lock, but can you at least do it?
Or, if you're a DPS-focused Class, how are your numbers looking?
I bring all of this up because, at the end of the day, teams are still configured with individual players. And while a team may very well be able to struggle through content, the individual's sense of accomplishment is judged by their contribution to that victory. I have found that very few (a small percentage of) players enjoy being "carried" through content.
Thus, the most important statistic is not how well you do in groups, but how well you can do solo. And just to be clear, I'm not saying that any solo DPS player should be able to single-handedly take down any mob. I'm saying that before fighting any particular mob, the player should have shown through some trial or test that they're capable of the Power necessary to do their fair share in the fight, and an understanding of the mechanics they can expect to deal with. This power can come straight from their character level, the equipment they have on, or a combination of the two... but it needs to be there.
The difficulty of completing a dungeon or a fight, then, is a matter of how few, or how many, mistakes that player makes during the event. As opposed to the party scratching their head and pointing fingers trying to decide who wasn't up to par and was just hoping to get "carried". That leads to a whole different level of toxicity than someone "oopsed".
To make these "gateways" or "trials" feel organic, they have to be part of the story. There needs to be a tangible reason for doing them, as opposed to sending a character off the story path just to get their badge. Therefore, to get to some of the more difficult content, and thus the more powerful rewards (new skills, better equipment, etc) you must first have completed the story up to that point (and therefore proven yourself ready for the road to your next milestone). And again, to be clear, even if you're grouping with others for your leveling experience, each Trial should have something in it just for you. Therefore, the best-case scenario would have dungeons be dynamic based on the group makeup.
If you're playing a rogue with your buddy, who is also a rogue, each of you should have to pick a lock or door on your own. Maybe at the same time to get to the next area. Something of that sort, which ensures you both "pass the test" before moving on. The DPS side of it is easy since it's expected that you're both hitting mobs and the game can keep track of your performance individually with those numbers.
The bottom line is this: I believe an individual player should be able to achieve a Mastery of whatever power spot they're sitting at. Thus,
1. How much max damage should a 10th level Ranger be able to do in a perfect scenario? Great, so is the player doing at least 70% of that consistently? If not, why? Is it because they haven't mastered the mechanics of whatever they're fighting, or because they don't understand the damage output/capabilities of their Skills?
2. At which point do the attacks from that 10th level Ranger become insignificant? The player shouldn't have access to "special areas" where he is rendered insignificant. This might be because his Level Multiplier is too low, or he's just not properly equipped. Maybe you don't want to stop someone from running into a Level 50 Zone at Level 10, but you do want to stop them from joining a dungeon group which is depending on them to pull their weight only to find out too late that they simply can't.
3. If you're going for more of a "quest" feel, then XP should be earned more through achievements (such as getting through the aforementioned "trials", completing quests, etc.) than from actual mob kills. This also helps the "gateway" function feel more organic.
Anyhow, I'm sure you can see where this is going. Solo advancement should be based on the intent of preparing that individual for group play--being able to pull their own weight, ensuring they understand what they'll be up against (even though it will be more difficult in group content), etc.
Ashes of Creation seems to be set up almost similar in that if you're in town and a world boss shows up, you just react to it. If you choose to fight, you'll pray other people show up, but you're not going to take the time to "party up" most likely. Dungeons are open world, you might be able to sneak around inside, get a few things, and maybe see a group to be friendly with (and maybe temporarily part with, but no friends list exchange).
As far as what I think you should be able to do 100% solo, you should be able to earn enough money to get what you need. Either through artisan classes, owning a tavern and such, or solo grinding, a player should be able to earn good money on their own. Since the gear is based on crafting, even if you don't go and raid things, you should be able to make enough money on your own to afford the top (or at least competitive with the top) of the line stuff.
Solo play for a skilled player should be more efficient than random groups of players who aren't very good... but less efficient than the well-oiled machine of a group with experience working together and a plan.
I don't think a single player of any skill level should be able to win against 3 competent players with some balance (assuming relatively equal level / gear). I think a skilled solo player should be able to take a larger group of very unskilled players.
Honestly, as long as I can make meaningful progression on my alts after my friends log off, I'm happy.
Last time i checked It's a MASSIVELY multiplayer online role playing game. Not some first person shooting game like HITMAN or IGI. very few content can be done solo. ex: crafting. But one can not progress alone.
Just because there are lots of players in the game doesn't mean all content should require others to complete. The best gear should require some level of group play, but there should be a fair amount of solo content in the game as well.
"Your not playing an MMO anymore. Your playing a solo player game with other people in it."
This was one night last fall when we were finishing our raid time in WOW and people were trying to get groups together to do stuff.
I like to explore solo as I tend to end up in that random corner of the world only s few know exists and fewer have seen.
The rest should encourage team play. Should people be able to solo sure have at it. But imagine Leonidas standing solo at the Hot Gates.
I am pretty sure we won't be forced to be in groups. Almost all of my fond memories for MMO's has come from group content. Weather it is pick open world PVP or raiding, groups make the genre what it is.
Crafting being broken into 3 parts means that is only slightly soloable.
If I don't want to play with other people for awhile I do something else. I would never ask a group based game be it basketball or an MMO to make it so I can win playing all by my little lonesome.
There does need to be solo content through quest lines that are a challenge for the solo player that have meaningful rewards at the end of them, not just content that you can face roll through all the time. Solo content that in some cases is so hard that when you see someone with say a cosmetic reward from it you know they have achieved something special not everyone should be able to do some solo content at first put a skill cap in there make people get better to achieve some solo goals. Just a few hard solo goals for players to achieve would be fun IMO.
The MMO's of recent times have become far to solo friendly and are just face rolling they have a great story and all but once the story is done what else is there for the solo player. My hope is that with AOC there will be many other systems that will help to keep you engaged organizations to gain power and reputation with crafting gathering processing all things that should be possible as a solo player to a large degree. Though you may need some protection while harvesting to stop those pesky thieves from killing you for your stuff
As for those that seem to think they should be able to go and solo 8 player dungeons no just no I do hope AOC never ends up in that state.