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Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
Because in an MMORPG, there are numerous ways to be social without formally joining a party or a raid.
Numerous ways to be social that have nothing to do with character progression - all with a focus on roleplaying.
I know lots of people who are solo adventurers who love to hold tutorials in-game or host costume parties or build obstacle courses or judge decorating contests or orchestrate flash mobs.
Adventurer and crafter progression should not be strictly tied to interactions with other players.
There are many ways to create friendships and be social in an MMORPG that have nothing to do with progression.
I adventure with other players when I want to - not because I'm forced to.
We shouldn't be forced to socialize. Forced group play leads to resentment more often than not anyways.
Mostly, I agree, but...
I dunno why solo play necessarily has to be casual. Or why it should be impossible to solo a dungeon. Especially since dungeons aren't static. Raids should probably be designed for coordinated attacks - objectives that basically need to be handled simultaneously in a way that one person could not complete all the objectives sequentially. A raid is inherently multi-person, while a dungeon might not be.
But, even a raid should include solo objectives. The soloer plays his role - like sneaking in and grabbing a relic or finding and disarming traps - while the raiders raid. One person should not be able to defeat a raid alone, but... one player might have some objectives that they complete and then leave it to others to finish.
Just because you adventure in a dungeon or raid doesn't have to mean that you clear all the objectives.
Also, playing with others doesn't have to mean that we're all playing at exactly the same time.
In NWO, I mostly duoed with one other player. But, we were in a guild were we would leave surplus gear in the guild bank...especially useful for newbies. Most of our socialization with the guild occurred via twitch chat and in-game guild chat while just two of us adventured together.
Dungeons should require coordination in the same way raids do, just with less people. Bosses should always require all group members to fulfill some job beyond just nuking the boss. Dungeon and raid bosses should have mechanics that require multiple players to take down in addition to the boss doing enough damage that any that non tank classes shouldn't be able to take more than a couple hits, and tanks should need a healer to survive for extended periods of time.
I wouldn't necessarily call the requirement to have someone sneak past mobs or traps to collect and item of flip a switch a soloers role. that's just adding class specific mechanics, it doesn't require a solo player to filll that role, you're still working as a member of the team to complete the dungeon.
I think the ability to be able to solo content should be limited. Why? Let's say I play solo up to max level, and I was able to beat the content (ignoring if I'm a really good player or not).
Now I'm max level and suddenly the game is asking me to group, or when I try to complete the content I keep failing, even if I'm being really good at the game.
It's all about consistency. If I can play up to max level without needing a team, why am I suddenly needing to party with people to play the game? This means the game lacks consistency, or that we're playing 2 separate games, or that endgame is all that matters.
First point > Consistency. The game should be clear on what it is and what it's not.
Gear. After reading many posts, a lot of them make emphasis on gear. Solo play should reward similar gear/stats/treasures. No. Solo play should never have similar rewards. Why? Less cooperation should mean less reward. You can be the best swordsman in the world, but again X amount of enemies you will fail, nothing will change that. This is not even taking in consideration the balance issue.
Counterpoint: solo game should reward similar rewards but it's really hard. From a design standpoint, is it really worth to design something that only a really small percentage of population will achieve? Here we're talking about solo players that are extremely good.
Second point > For me it's resource spending, and rewarding one type of gameplay that is going to be the focus of the game.
Identity. What is AoC? Is it a PvP game? A PvE or what exactly? I think this is very important to ask because once the game as a core identity it will be that. Dark Souls is not an easy game many will say, but it's also not making things easier. But it's also not a multiplayer game, except in few cases.
If AoC has an identity it won't try to please everyone, it will make it's playerbase happy because it knows what it is.
Third point > identity.
In one game I wanted to be the best smith ever. When I tried to craft something I realized I couldn't, needed ore. Then I went and started gathering ore with another toon. Surprise after all my hard work I got ganked. Lost all my profits or most of them.
Did I get punished for playing solo or was the game showing me its identity?
Adventuring in a dungeon doesn't always have to be about killing a boss. Rescuing a kidnapped prince could take place in a dungeon. Stealing blueprints could take place in a dungeon. Could be that one person is systematically able to do both in the dungeon.
But, a raid inherently means that there are more than one attacker.
Sneaking past mobs and disarming traps is not limited to being a role for soloers. It should be a role available for soloers - especially in dungeons.
In a game where Paladins can self-heal, they may not need to rely on a healer. All depends on how one builds their characters. Rather, healers should have stuff to heal - that may or may not be a party member. May be that there are areas in the dungeon or raid that require cleansing from a Cleric. And if there isn't a Cleric, that area doesn't get cleansed. Might be that the solo Rogue suffers through the damage or chooses to not venture through that area. Which may or may not mean that they can succeed at rescuing the prince or grabbing the blueprints. If so, there should still be some other roguish objectives the Rogue can accomplish before deciding whether to retreat and return with a Cleric or choose to complete all the roguish objectives, report what they found to others and let them try to rescue the prince or grab the blueprints.
Clearing the dungeon should always be the primary intent.
If the game is to do a raid system then a mercenary system needs to be incorporated along it's side.
Could be a merc guild or adventurer guild.
Set up your character card and post it. when a group needs 1 or more players for a raid they go to said guild.
look through a bunch of cards
Card states last level, past jobs, rating and if allowed by player stats and equipment. also has has mic or no mic slot and other desirable quality of life info.
they pick yours and you get a message.
can only be picked if you are in node area of influence
once notified you go to meet up location
NOW HERE THE FUN BEGINS
can either be real raid people that invite you to group or a trap.
thats it for the fun thanks for coming to my ted talk.
You can't win castle siege or a node siege or a node war or a monster coin attack by yourself.
None of those activities are limited to max level.
Just as people should be able to reach adventurer max level and crafter max level via soloing, they should probably also be able to reach max level in racial, religious and social progression via soloing - not joining a party or raid.
But, the latter will probably require becoming a citizen and certainly require joining a religion or social organization. We will join groups when we participate in caravan defense/attack and when we participate in sieges, so, there will frequently be times when we "team" even before we reach max adventurer level.
I don't think this really matters. This is a thing if we have PvE gear separate from PvP gear separate from raid gear. If you don't raid, you don't need raid gear because you aren't fighting bosses designed to deal damage to a 40-person group.
But, in Ashes, I might be defending my village, town or metro from a boss that is essentially a raid boss. And I shouldn't have to formally join a party or a raid in order to partake in the defense.
One of the things we have to learn more about is how participation in these activities is tracked. And how the subsequent rewards are distributed to the participants.
Could be that the Legendary gear I have comes from dealing with Legendary traps or dealing with Legendary toxins or diseases, rather than dealing with Legendary mobs. I may not want to spend the time it takes to coordinate a raid to on a Winter Dragon's lair, but still be able to defend my Node alongside raiders and other citizens when a Winter Dragon's horde raids our Metropolis.
My ability to withstand those attacks shouldn't be solely dependent upon me formally joining a raid.
Even if we don't get Legendary gear from dealing with Legendary traps and toxins, we should still be able to acquire Legendary gear from helping defend our Metro from Legendary boss attacks.
Ashes is a PvX game.
Getting ganked so often while solo gathering that it significantly impedes your progression would mean that Corruption is not the deterrent its intended to be. But, that really has very little to do with this topic, I think.
How much a Smith has to rely on resources from other crafters in order to become a master Smith would be more on topic. Not just how possible it is for a Smith to be a master without help from other crafters, but also how tedious it will be for one player to provide the required help via alts.
We don't have enough details to know, at this time.
As we progress and Player versus Player content becomes available, this will impact the Player versus Environment some and soon we will get our bearings in this open, seamless environment. This reminds me of the Vangaurd:SoH debate of nodes being loaded and back then was impossible to be seamless. It just shows how far we've come with technology.
Back to the subject, the player should be able to progress all the way to the last level with no "group hindering" at all or a person could possibly not feel "free" in an open world environment. The progression curve is totally up to the developers and where they feel the game should take steps. Getting to the highest level should be more difficult the higher you get. It only makes sense to a person who has put the time and effort into such a game. I think the progression curve for PvP content against the PvE content should reflect that of the content progression. So, if a solo player chooses to get to the "endgame" content as fast as he/she can in order to progress to the last level faster than anyone else, he/she should be able to. If he/she chooses to PvP all the way to the end, then they should feel equally rewarded.
If a player chooses the more casual route, it should not be too hard for them to get into endgame content such raid bosses or dungeon content. Perhaps getting the appropriate gear to take on these beasts should not be too hard as well for the enjoyment of the player. The idea of farming certain monsters does make sense in order to get this equipment.
Any level requirements is the choice of the developer. Does it take away from the "free choice", sure. Does it affect the casual player, sure it does. Then you must ask yourself is it a "niche" market or "free" market. Choices like these, perhaps can be discussed with the "market" or should I say society.
One thing is certain, is that there is choices and consequences and the inevitable rebuttle of time.
I remember in WoW (and to an extent swtor), I had to either group, overlevel, or get good to do group content by myself. I made a lot of friends by grouping. Overleveling made the reward mostly worthless and getting good... improved my skill. I miss these days. I also miss tank, heals, and control being the trinity and not just dps but that is besides the point.
Make most of the content group content. Add a lot of fun things to do and a lot of tools to have fun. This will give you a thriving community and a lot of people happy to play with each other. That keeps people coming back to play just as much as the newest content patch.
Howdy!
A little bit of background before I start. I normally play the role of Hunter/Beastmaster and highly enjoy playing solo (with a pet). To have the ability to level up to max and enjoy MOST of the game solo should be established. You SHOULD be able to play the game at your own pace and interact with npc's/other players only as a necessity for supplies/gear and the such. Being able to run around and grind experience for your character in the form of leveling and crafting should be most of the game. It is able to be done solo, or with a group of friends to make it maybe go faster. This should be the extent of the solo players power. Able to reach max level with your character and with crafting abilities, but past that, nothing more. You will be forced to join groups to complete dungeons/raids and the such.
You SHOULD NOT be able to complete dungeons/raids/end game content as a solo player. This goes against what I would like, BUT, for the game as a whole, the community is what will ultimately create the content for the game as every server will be "different."
In conclusion, solo players should be able to enjoy and explore most of the game solo, but should not be able to do group specific tasks alone.
For Raids and similar challenges, they should be able to hire NPCs. These NPCs should have stats depending on the item level of the player (the bigger the players itemlevel, the bigger the multiplier for the NPC stat), and the more stats they have, the more money they cost for hire.
So it would be like, to hire Dungeon bosses to kill raid bosses.
Perhaps you could hire Dungeon bosses you have defeated, to help you with your solo raid.
But this of course would cost massive amounts of money.
Although there are two major things.
Caravans should be doable as solo. I'd hate if I have to bring my friends every time I drive my goodies to a market. And you shouldn't be able to solo someone else's caravan. It should at least require 3 - 4 people.* ( to prevent over-geared players rule the caravan roads by solo. Casual players need to have chance to drive their goodies too. At least against solo players)
Second, finding online people to do group activities should be super easy. I'd also hate looking for people in some chat channel with my eyes bleeding to catch someone or wait outside of a dungeon area, do nothing but wait to pick up people or be picked up by someone. A working "Looking for ..." system is charm.
PS: There is nothing blocking some separate challenges for solo players and maybe hard to achieve challenges that can reward equally with different group activities. So not everything should be open to solo, but some equally rewarding solo content should be there. Guilds will also want their members to complete those challenges.
*Edited : It should require 4 people or something like that to do it.
It should take longer to get the best gear and rewards playing solo than with a group.
Finding ways that a player can do solo actions and events to help a group is good for MMOs (i.e. infiltration as shown in previous AoC media).
I think he wants to be able to protect his caravan on his own
While his second sentence means, that attackers should need 4 people to raid a caravan.
I am not really on his side here, if a caravan is only protected by one person, then it should only take one person to raid the caravan tbh xD
The higher the level of the reward should dictate the group size (level efficiency).
Even as a aspiring master smelter I fully expect that smelting iron would be "solo-able" while smelting master level adamantium (to randomly pick a "top tier" material) will entail using a smelter that requires a group to get to and defend all the while the smelting process is ongoing.
Risk vs reward and all that.
The smelting process probably won't be group oriented but to get that adamantium you'll have to go into a group dungeon or raid to harvest it, or buy it off of someone capable of getting into those areas to harvest it. I know the devs want room in high end dungeons and raids for harvesters to have to come in and collect the materials. Plus you will have to do the same for any other resources required in the forging of the item.
It will be interesting to see how end game gearing will work, in theory if you were a solo player and friends with a master in their craft and they had a supply of high end harvesters you could buy raid gear from them. It will probably still cost you an arm and a leg, but if the best gear can come from master crafters you could get a hold of equivalent gear without ever having to step into a raid.
In a real game world, you don't have to be in a group to play with others, and you should always have your own agenda.
Playing alone should be just as full and interesting as playing in groups. Small groups should also be as viable as large ones, and neither should hinder advancement in the game.
As far as gear/progression, there shouldn't be any special gear you get for being in a group, it should just be easier to access. I would prefer to see the rewards for a dungeon remain constant, and be divided by the number of people rather than be increased for the number of players.
I like the idea of having a blacksmith shop, be able to provide repairs to other players, and be able to post quests for materials I need rather than have to run around in a group and get subsidized freebies for doing so.
For group play, there's always PVP and events. Which is appropriate, but shouldn't provide special gear. Perhaps rare and valuable materials for crafting the really good gear.
In my opinion, forcing people into groups kills the game. Providing opportunities to work together (or against each other) is far more important to creating a thriving world.
Your friends and associates arent always available, especially if you are a night owl.
There is some stuff that is best for solo work.
There is some stuff that is best for group work.
On the progress/development side of things.
I would have solo questing evolve single/self target skills and group questing evolve AoE/Party skills.
Just like the real world. Some jobs are more suited to single players, some to many players.
I see no reason to have an either or situation.
I see no reason why builds should not in fact jeopardise group skills in favour of single target skills or vice versa if they wish to specialise in specific scenarios.
If fact I see no reason why AoE target cap/power should not be a build variable that scales with preferred play style that sacrifices one for another.
Just adds to the build variety IMHO.
In Wizard101, I got lots of free help because I was the Darwin of pet breeding.
i play both styles, most of the day i play solo ... exploring, finding cool stuff, climbing and getting into secret places and then ofc joining raids, etc for the big content
but having dungeons/ quests or every other kind of entertainment specially made for a solo player is very wise indeed.
but at the same time there should be content for group which there already are but, needs to be more i think
but what you should keep in mind is, many people CANT and DONT WANT to play solo ok ?
so IF you give solo players, for example, more exp and better drop rate which is good in my opinion, then at the same time most people would rather to grind alone right?
and the weaker and lonelier people will be cast off even more.. which is very bad
so there should be pros and cons for both styles of play that makes it absolutely worthwhile for the lone wolves to help other people and make groups regularly.
Dungeons should never be soloable, but at points on the road, to the mini boss or the boss you should have an opportunity to realise that you are in over your head and turn around and go back to get in a group.
I even believe that group content should be more difficult depending on the strength of the individual and the group. Class makeup of the group should come into play, only if the group is all kinds of fucked up.
and s player should be able to vary between solo play and group.
that being said, some mmorpgs have builds that are geared for solo play with their own inherent strengths and weaknesses and uniqueness.
When it comes to the gear treadmill, solo players should be able to take part in that climb as well, even if it takes a little longer than it would with a group or raid. I think it is important to focus on both play styles without one cheapening the other at "end-game".