Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Comments
As I see it, a person should be able to improve and fight with the top players off their own tenacity, but they shouldn't be permitted to cruise through or enjoy all of the content being solo. Though the most epics of epic should only be earned by someone willing to play a multiplayer game with other people. This allows for some down-time for players to just relax by themselves, or the "lone wolf" to participate.
Please remain committed to bringing the MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER back into MMORPG's. Allowing solo players in a multiplayer game to have access to everything the multiplayer person has just feels bad. It ends up turning the experience into a glorified RPG with other people running around.
In my opinion, content should look like this from a solo players perspective:
- Solo designed content; some, but there are few: crafting/housing/basic quests/ect. Easy difficulty*.
- 2-4man content; gathering*/story quests/grinding monsters/ect. I can do them, but it wont be efficient. Normal difficulty*.
- 5-8man content; dungeons/caravans/field bosses/ect. I -might- be able to if I'm careful and willing to spend a good amount of time and resources doing it. Brutal difficulty*.
- 9+man content; raids/world bosses/war. I cannot do this alone.
*Gathering: It could be more efficient in a group because of distance to gathering spot + inventory space and risk of attack for control of the resources.*Difficulties: Easy = 95% of the population can do it. Normal = 70%. Brutal = 10%.
Obviously I don't know if any of this is a good idea, and there can be difficulty scales for each activity, but I believe a multiplayer game should first and foremost require multiple people at nearly every stage, but allow for dedicated players to challenge some of it alone. The reason I enjoy MMORPG's... or used to, anyway, was the fact that it required you to be social and progress together.
Also, please allow most story quests to be soloable. Otherwise, this can really become a problem for new players as the server progresses.
There is literally no reason why playing alone should be ever preferable to playing with other people in an online game. People who consider themselves "Solo players" are just conditioned to neglect in some solvable capacity, which makes them prefer solo play over group play. All reasons to do so are design flaws that should be addressed, whether it's the social or mechanical element.
Lower level group content IS solo content.
AoC isn't directly comparable but it was not a fun experience playing the last main scenario dungeons in FFXIV ARR and being the only one who hasn't already done it. Everyone else went on while I was in a cutscenes and I didn't even get to participate in the boss fights. Then SE decided to force everyone to watch cutscenes if a new players is queued with them, and thats not a good solution either.
They don't need to be strictly solo either. Someone takes on a lore quest for an open world dungeon, but some encounters can borrow the caravans interaction menu to help or ignore and not only do they get some reward, but when the player finishes the quest they get a better reward than they'd have gotten alone.
I believe a solo player should be able to do quite a bit alone, if they are putting forth the effort. Although Id rather play with friends, there are some nights where I cant sleep and I want to put in some time progressing in my current mmo addiction and I want those hours to be feel like I did something worth while..itll keep me playing even when other simply cant, or don't want too.
Now do i believe they should be able to solo "end game" things alone? No. Not at all. Eventually every lone wolf needs to join a pack...even if its temporary!
On top of that, the very worst (especially for support classes) is when grouping up is a detriment. For example farming mobs in an area may be solo-able, but make sure there's some benefit to having a support class with you that out-weighs having to split the loot two ways. It doesn't have to be two people are twice as fast either, it could be adding a high penalty to death (solo being high-risk & high-reward vs grouped being a steadier experience), or a healthy looming threat of PvP (so group for safety in numbers), or just good old QoL benefits.
Sure, there should be some activities you can grind away at on your own, but any time there's no benefit to grouping up the game may as well be a single player RPG.
Why must game content have this binary difficulty? What about everything in between? What about duo groups?
To me the solutions is something along the following: introduce many different degrees of difficulty for overland mobs. That can be in the shape of mob camps, different types of elite mobs (with more difficult mechanics, not just more HP and dmg), or just general variance. Of course, higher difficulty mobs should yield better rewards/exp (risk vs reward). This way, there will always be something to strive for and reason to gain better gear, new skills and become a better player.
There should be lots of stuff that is soloable, and lots of stuff that's not. But make sure that a player of any skill and item level always can find interesting and worthwile challenges, if he or she wants to!
There is nothing wrong with solo playing in a mmo and not everything has to always be a "group activity".
If you want to explore on your own and maybe the people you are playing with have other ambitions you are not stuck having to "tag along" and can do adventures on your own etc.
I started out as a solo player in another mmo and it was fantastic. I completed a lot of things, got to do random adventures on my own and just explore. When the time came for a team up i would and sometimes it was fun sometimes it was not. Personally i prefer solo play but i understand especially with difficult dungeons a team up is required. I just don't feel a team mate should be mandatory all the time. Not everyone is extroverted and wants to play with "others" all the time. I feel solo playing will just add another level of interesting aspects to the game.
PvP can be soloed with enough skill.
Solo players should be able to obtain high-level gear via crafted gear or rare drops from chest or mobs as well in lieu of not being able to solo high-level dungeons/raids.
Future Crafting Plans: Herbalism > Alchemy & Scribe or Mining > Metalworking > Jewel cutting (Pending)
Formerly T-Elf
There should be little difference for solo and group players as for how far you can progress with gear/stats and such (unless we're talking about Legendary items which imo should need you to beat the most difficult raids in the game that are near impossible even for a full raid group, but most players are not going to acquire those regardless), I think it is important that a player is able to obtain some sort of high-level gear on their own. However, there should still be gear/items only obtainable by working with other people to promote group-play. Not things that is significantly better than what you can obtain on your own, but maybe items which allow unique stat variations and looks. Rewards for group-only content could also be certain achievements etc.
Ashes should have content made to work equally well regardless whether you are with a group of people or not. It can be things like vanqor mentioned such as making sure the world has a wide variety of mob difficulties. I would like to see really tough mobs which a new player may not be able to take down on their own and therefore needs the help of friends, whereas an experienced player can go in alone and clean house. Other content such as jumping puzzles, logic puzzles, brewing and crafting experimentation are also great examples of things which will work just as well in a group as when playing alone.
Then there is content which, from a difficulty standpoint™, is created for groups. Open world events, dungeons and raids for example. I would be very disappointed if none of this content was possible to beat solo.
Now hear me out.
In terms of difficulty, these should absolutely not be created so that your average Ashes player can rush in and take a shit on pre-patch C'Thun. In fact, for raids I think it's fair to agree that the majority of raid bosses should simply be impossible to beat solo because of the mechanics. But, Intrepid should allow solo players to put their skill to the test by making a few dungeons and one, maybe two raids possible to beat without other players. These things will have to be incredibly difficult for a player to do alone.
If I'm not mistaken, Ashes will not have players get a copy of all the content from boss chests and the group will have to split up the content themselves with auctioning(?) or other methods. To prevent skilled players from farming dungeons/raids alone, the time it takes to beat the bosses will have to be long enough to make it an inefficient way to obtain the rewards. A solo player should still have a chance of a rare drop at those few dungeons and raid(s) so they can make their high-level gear. However, being able to solo a place like that should be balanced in a way that makes it more of a near-impossible achievement for that individual to prove their skill, and less of a mean to get good loot without having to share it with others.
Again, I still think most dungeons and certainly most raids should be impossible solo, but I'm not going to be happy if you make all of them use mechanics that require groups.
I'm having a lot of fun trying out fractal bosses solo in Guild Wars 2, using a Necromancer class which heals itself faster than it loses health you're able to beat a lot of things intended for group play if you just have 100000000000000 hours to spare. I see some people soloing stuff in GW2 with the Elementalist. It is the hardest class to master in the game and is a big glass cannon, but it has the highest DPS and if you're skilled enough you can make it work.
What I'm trying to say is, if you're skilled enough there's a lot of seemingly impossible things you should be able to do. Taking on multiple people at once in PvP is another thing.
Lastly I would like to say to Intrepid, creators often underestimate the players. To create the perfect difficulty boss, put it right on the edge of what you experience to be possible and impossible... Then make it a little harder!
I think this would cause problems in the same way automated group finders do. Players should have say as too the group make up of their parties, automatically forming groups takes away from the social aspect of MMOs to some degree. Granted this mean find groups will be more difficult as you will have to match whatever gear standard the party leader decides is necessary for a smooth run.
All these end game solo boss kills is a joke.
With that said, solo players should be able to get to the end game, and bosses but not be able to even come close to defeating them. No matter your, “skill.”
You don’t join an massive multiplayer online as a solo expecting to beat the game without any help.
If your looking to survive as a soloist you must be good with economics.
Getting the same gear that you will get when you jamming in groups also when jamming solo should not be possible, unless its something like "First in PvP Arena" or something like you discovered a hidden bandit cave.
So in short, solo players should be able to have same choices as group players, but it must just take the solo player longer in doing this and more effort from that player.
How do you feel about solo progression? How far should a player be able to progress as a "lone wolf"?
I feel fine and that they should not be penalised for it, let them progress as far.
I'd guess that theres a significant proportion of MMOrpG gamers who prefer to solo play, however most of us when we're soloing do so out of circumstance or are just darn fed up of lisening to certain people.
I'd say 90% of my time in games is soloing, but that could be because of any reason, AND I would stress this, I am rarely ALONE, so even if I don't want to be running around in a group, I'm normally interacting and trying not to wet myself laughing in discord and the like with guilds.
But yeah, sometimes it's 3AM, I can't sleep and rather than group up with a random of dubious demeanor, I'll choose to watch a film whilst playing instead.
There are lots of reasons to solo, but having heavily implied committment from yourselves to providing reasonable solo content, there should also be reasonable rewards for doing so.
I believe that an MMORPG that is aiming to be a 'game changer' and a spearhead of 'how to do it right' should avoid penalising those who have no choice but to play alone, such as those with cripling introversion, those have come late to the game and have yet to work out the basics and who are thus avoided by the majority of the community for grouping etc etc.
Those in the middle of the night, needing to be un-populated zones, those who play more casually and don't wish to be responsible for anothers lack of enjoyment if they are playing at a gentler pace. The list goes on.
How to do that? Not that my opinion matters, but I'd break content down into three pathways:
- Content you cannot do without a group.*
- Content you cannot do WITH a group.*
( * or input from others)
- Content that you can choose to do either way.
I think that it should also be important that rewards such as armor, are tailored to 'reflect' those choices, ie a non-stat related difference in look so different cosmetic appearance of the same quality armor.
Not because that then makes different groups stand out, but because then EVERY play style is encouraged, and if everyone does it, then it should actually help to remove any stigmas. (ie, clique, loner, carebear, geek, etc)
If the best looking armor is available through just ONE game play style 99% of the time, yeah, don't you think you'd be letting the game as a whole down, and would have failed yourselves and your initial intention?
You want ALL of the awesome armor? You've got to at least TRY ALL of the different parts of the game.
And for exactly the same reason, surely you should mix it up a bit.
If you want to get to the greatest group dungeon ever, then the quickest route is one that briefly makes you solo a dungeon (quickest because you can still get there without that solo/group/PvP play, but it penalises you for choosing to not fully embrace the whole game.)
Similarly you can't get to all the solo quest/progression content easily without having to group up with those who are similarly introspective along the way.
When you throw PVP in there too, and crafting, it might make for a few progression interrupts, but for a brief interruption it should add extra interest and memorable events into the players game experience as a whole. Even if that memory is 'I can't believe that I had to take so much extra time, just to avoid PvP/Grouping/Soloing' .
SO ASSUMING that everyone already knows how to provide great content for group play, how do you provide content for solo players that is different from anything that's gone before and possibly make it appeal to group players as well.
Random thoughts off my head:
@monak mentioned dungeons, and that was one of my first thoughts. Not as a way to end up 'grouping', but to add an extra level of interest into things.
Imagine a dungeon, it has two pathways, one for solo players, one for groups.
Neither share exactly the same space, think, two tunnels running next to each other.
Beating either pathway is not dependent upon the other, meaning that you can choose to run either one in your own instance.
Now imagine a third option, that a solo player, or a group, could also choose to run it at the same time, in the same instance.
Whilst not being dependent upon the other, wouldn't it be fun if the chosen actions of the one group/player caused changes to the direction of the needed actions dungeon for the other?
The best way to describe this would be similar to the film 'cabin in the woods'
So if a solo/group player kills a boss in 0-2 min, 2-5 min, 5-8 min 8-10 min then that assigns the next bosses ultimate skill of attack for a group.
If you could see the group or solo player through occasional cracks in the wall, it could be a race to finish first to get a bonus reward.
You could choose to ignore/help/take pot shots at the 'other' side.
It'd be great if people had to work out for themselves how best to address the challenge they get in-front of them, because it's not down to them, instead of being set and getting away with the easier option of looking up how to get through a dungeon from a guide. (by the way, this would also work towards preventing things getting stale but also deal with one issue of WHY people solo - if no one knows exactly how things are going to work out, there should be less of a 'noob' attitude towards people coming later to a group in a re-runnable dungeon. )
...... I had more ideas... I should have written them down, waffling this has killed them.
Anyway, Intrepid, you can make the game however you deem best, but in answer to your question:
it shouldn't matter too much what any of US feel about solo progression or 'lone wolves' because around kickstarter time, you were stressing that AoC would be a great game for for ALL playstyles. (Solo, group, PvP, rp, crafting etc. )
Taking that forward, a solo player should then be able to progress to a comparable level as one who only focuses on grouping..
To start with some player background. I consider myself slightly more than a casual gamer, but not quite hard core. I tend to level and do day to day activities solo. What do I consider day to day activities? I would include leveling, any kind of rep grinding, and daily quests. I have always grouped for end game dungeons/raids/world bosses. And I feel that should be expected.
That said, I feel players should totally be able to level solo if they choose. Should some instances be more difficult than others? Definitely. Should some camps or packs of mobs be difficult due to quantity or strength? Definitely. Should there be any incentive for grouping while leveling? I am in favor of not. My chief complaint with certain past games that I have played where some required areas would be impossible solo (maybe because of an encounter/event etc.) I think it is important in this instance to look at the situation. Should players be required to group for content such as leveling that eventually most people will complete/not run anymore then end up stuck or discouraged because groups are not frequent? I think this should be avoided. So for leveling purposes, I feel that leveling content should be primarily solo-able, and maybe solo-able to more skilled players in some areas.
So how about crafting? I would say this totally depends on what the developers want to do with crafted gear or items. I am sure we all have seen the gambit of games that that range from crafting being worthless, to only useful at intro content, to the best gear in the game. The result should be based on the quality of the item. If crafted gear are only initially useful, then a solo player should totally be able to handle acquiring mats and crafting on their own. If we want to take the gear to the extent of it being the best in the game, then I feel that group play and inter profession requirements be needed, for example dungeon drops or other profession's items. How about other crafted items? I think it should follow the same logic. Initial or bulk requirements should be solo-able, but anything end game should require other people and professions.
I think it is important to consider what a player can do during off hours. Should someone be idle because friends/guild mates are mostly at work/school/just not online? Or should they have some activities they can accomplish on their own such as farming or rep grinding.
That said, this is a MMO, and group content is important also. Group play, for example dungeons/raids/etc, should be the source of the best items/ end game progression/etc. I think this is where the balancing act should occur. What generally keeps us wiping on raid bosses or doing large group activities? The rewards. There is zero incentive to do difficult to difficult content if there is not a reward (usually in the form of the best gear or items). Personally, raiding and large group events are what keep me interested in a game. Would a few solo dungeons for skilled players be fun? It sure could be as a mark of skill. Should the best items come from such things? No, unless maybe only cosmetics? And back to leveling for a moment. Should there be low level dungeons? Definitely. But we should follow the same steps and give some kind of incentive for doing them: maybe loot that is significantly better or last a few extra levels than the solo loot.
Thank you for humoring me.
End wall-o-text
I would love to see content like the Mage tower, or even longer form dungeons like the warlock black harvest scenario. Challenging solo content that really tests the players ability to execute their class tool kits. But as I mentioned in an early post I think this may be better suited as a catch up mechanic as opposed to a way to get the current tier of gear.
Though I'd be concerned about the amount of time it would take to create interesting scenarios for class.
Meaning, if I need to defeat this dungeon to progress with the story, then I need to find a party. Other than this, there is no need to force us to interact with each other.
Let US do that on our own.
Be heroes
Like lets talk a game where a solo player can get to max level if they really are committed, but the process to do so is not clearly laid out. You won’t be running dungeons or doing typical group content, but instead actually have to find safer, more solo-oriented routes usually revolving around solo work (assassin work, quests to steal rare artifacts, requests to bring in criminals with bounty, or dare I say a mechanic to choose power over the ability to join a group.)
Essentially, there could be mechanics for casual solo play, like mini quests, dailies, crafting, for when you are doing things waiting for friends, but where is a game where a player can be solo and it’s actually a different experience because the world isn’t easy. Content made for groups should only be run in groups, and you should be mercilessly slaughtered for doing so, but if you perhaps level a solo-player progression line like I previously mentioned it would give you benefits to help you and also sort of lock you into a solo play type style at the same time.
Otherwise I feel that Ashes is almost too group oriented, where only those with friends to play with can succeed. Some people enjoy being part of the shadows of the world, either from personal feeling, or because they like to think that they’re Kirito.
How do you feel about solo progression? How far should a player be able to progress as a "lone wolf"?
I love Solo Gameplay, but I am not a lone wolf. I want to be able to progress my skills as I solo. As I wander through Verra exploring or looking for that rare mount to breed or locations to gather, I want to be able to defend myself against PVE. I want to be able to level naturally as I play the game, and not have to grind over and over in some dungeon.
I want to be able to help defend my caravan or any others. I want to be able to hold my own against roving PVP. I'll be gathering, crafting, working on my freehold and traveling the world to get what I need. I'll be playing the stockmarket, hopefully buying and selling houses and selling my wares in a stall, maybe running an Inn .I will need group gameplay to achieve these things and I will be grouping with my guild and others to help them progress or to raid and plunder, of course.
A player should be able to progress as far as they can for normal everyday PVE, but not as fast as you would by being in a group.
Ashes has many types of progression besides just adventurer progression and crafter progression.
Adventurers should be able to reach max level without ever needing to formally join a party or a raid.
Crafters should also be able to reach max level by trading with NPCs.
But, in Ashes, we shouldn't expect to win a siege alone. Or successfully raid or defend a caravan alone.
We should not expect to be able to successfully defend a node from a monster coin attack alone.
Node progression probably cannot be done alone.
I'm not sure that religious and social progression can be done alone - but we need to know more about what those forms of progression entail.
I don't consider solo and lone wolf to be synonymous.
I typically spend most of my time in MMORPGs solo - I don't formally join parties and raids.
But, I'm not a lone wolf. I socialize a lot with others and will fight alongside others without formally joining the party or raid. It's not uncommon for me to help people complete a task and then skedaddle to complete whatever my personal goals were for that game session - which might be swimming around a continent to completely uncover the fog of war.
I often "solo" but not I'm not necessarily alone.