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Corruption system

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Comments

  • edited June 2020
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  • palabanapalabana Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Ikcen wrote: »
    Similar corruption systems failed in L2 and BDO. But yeah, we do not know the details here yet. Still as I already said - if you have to suicide your character or to do quests with hours to clean first 1-3 PKs - just forget about the OW PvP. It will not happen.

    Let's not forget that players are always incentivised to fight back. Halving the death penalties is an offer that everyone would take. If they don't fight back, you don't kill them. You scare them away. If you killed them anyway and gain Corruption, that's your fault. You just have to ask yourself: "Do I really have to kill this person?"

    I think you're looking at this game from a solo player point of view. Bringing Caravans means you are encouraged to act as a group and are recommended to hire NPC guards and/or bring friends/other players along. AoC is designed to encourage teamwork and socialisation.

    Some stuff may sound "harsh" or "punishing" to you if you view them from a solo-player perspective. That is why, as everyone has said, the game is not going to be for everyone. If you still wish to participate, you will have to try your best to survive on your own.

    If you're not looking from a solo player perspective (I'm only making an assumption here), then you'll have to wait and see how it pans out.
  • palabanapalabana Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Ikcen wrote: »
    palabana wrote: »

    Caravans are not merely a means of transportation. By design, it is meant to be a PvP content. Therefore, they will never be instanced.

    There are some ways to participate in open world PvP without gaining, corruption. One of them is through attacking and defending Caravans.

    Sorry to say that, but this sounds stupid. Like - you say OW. But at the same time you think about it as instanced event.

    If it is instanced event, it will work exactly like you say - PvP event.

    But if it is OW, caravans are linked with the PK penalties, the corruption system, the crafting system, the trade system. So they are not simply PvP event anymore.

    I (and many others) have told you that these sanctioned PvP events are not affected by the Corruption system. Caravans, Sieges and GvG WILL NOT have Corruption. They are still open world PvP, even Caravans, except that you don't gain Corruption by killing players in these events.
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  • AntVictusAntVictus Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited June 2020
    Ikcen wrote: »
    palabana wrote: »

    I (and many others) have told you that these sanctioned PvP events are not affected by the Corruption system. Caravans, Sieges and GvG WILL NOT have Corruption. They are still open world PvP, even Caravans, except that you don't gain Corruption by killing players in these events.

    Again - if it is OW, it depends from the other features in the game, including the corruption system. You think like that A then B, but alphabet goes to Z. Did I say players get corruption in caravan PvP, GvG or sieges? No.

    What I say is, if the there is not ganking, nobody will use caravans, so the caravans are linked to the corruption. If it is OW.

    Ah yes...because making 100 trips from A to B is going to be the way to do things. And the REASON we use A To B is because A is the start and B is the destination. It's a literal saying. All of this said, it is NOT sufficient time wise to go and run 100 times from wherever you are to wherever you need things to be, that is why caravans will be used because it saves time.

    Your last point on this is complete bubcus. And you have been corrected on this MANY times throughout the last day til now. Please just stop. What you think you're typing isn't logical, nor is it something that is going to happen. Go away Ilcen, come back after you actually read things. F- is your grade.

    Can we get this thread closed already?
  • edited June 2020
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  • AntVictusAntVictus Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Ikcen wrote: »
    palabana wrote: »
    Let's not forget that players are always incentivised to fight back. Halving the death penalties is an offer that everyone would take. If they don't fight back, you don't kill them. You scare them away. If you killed them anyway and gain Corruption, that's your fault. You just have to ask yourself: "Do I really have to kill this person?"

    I think you're looking at this game from a solo player point of view. Bringing Caravans means you are encouraged to act as a group and are recommended to hire NPC guards and/or bring friends/other players along. AoC is designed to encourage teamwork and socialisation.

    Some stuff may sound "harsh" or "punishing" to you if you view them from a solo-player perspective. That is why, as everyone has said, the game is not going to be for everyone. If you still wish to participate, you will have to try your best to survive on your own.

    If you're not looking from a solo player perspective (I'm only making an assumption here), then you'll have to wait and see how it pans out.

    Honestly I find that way of thinking very weird. Nobody kills anybody in the games. We play with immortal avatars.

    So I do not think shall I kill this person, which is a very weird question. I think what is the risk and the reward for me. And if the risk exceeds the reward, I will not take the action.

    Also there are people who like to troll, so he will let you PK him, if he believes that you will get bigger penalty. It is not important for me to be good, it is important you to feel bad.

    Also there are people who RP. That include gankers, but also pacifists.

    And such a system always could be abused. Like - I let you PK my alt, and then I take your gear with my main.

    Also nothing encourages team work like the free ganking. So this advertisement is a nonsense.

    That isn't how this works, that's how none of this works. You've been told this several times.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited June 2020
    Ikcen wrote: »
    And such a system always could be abused. Like - I let you PK my alt, and then I take your gear with my main.
    That isn't abusing the system at all, that is the system at work.

    It is your choice if you attack that alt or not. If you do, you knew full well what the consequences of that may be - and whether it is the same player on a different character that makes good on that, or a different player on a different character, it makes no difference.

    If a player is good enough to goad you in to attacking them on their alt and then killing you on their main, they deserve some of your gear - and if you are ill-disciplined enough to attack that alt, you deserve to lose some gear.

    As to your claims that people won't use the caravan system - again, you have not been paying attention.

    If you intend on using a mule to transport goods instead of a caravan, you are painting a big target on your back saying "I have lots of resources, and no one protecting me, one hit of corruption for a whole pile of materials right here!". The idea of moving materials between nodes on a mule seems implausible at best to me.

    carrying them in your backpack would be more likely. However, it will take time.

    Assuming a caravan travels at half the speed of a player characters regular movement speed, if you have a caravan full of materials and need to travel 25 minutes to the node you want them at, that would take 50 minutes in a caravan.

    If you attempted to do that just using a backpack, it would take 83 hours - 25 minutes to get from departure to destination, 25 minutes to get back, so 50 minutes for each round trip, then you need to do that trip 100 times as you can carry 100 inventories worth of materials in a caravan. So that is 5,000 minutes, or 83 hours.

    So no, people will use caravans.

    You may not, but others will.
  • palabanapalabana Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited June 2020
    Ikcen wrote: »
    If it is OW.
    It is open world.

    Click here to watch the Caravan gameplay from March video. I have timestamped it for you so you can watch the Caravan part immediately.

    Click here to watch the Caravan gameplay from latest video. I have timestamped it for you so you can watch the Caravan part immediately.
    Ikcen wrote: »
    What I say is, if the there is not ganking, nobody will use caravans, so the caravans are linked to the corruption.
    I don't know what you're saying anymore. I feel like there's a language barrier preventing both you and me from understanding each other.
    Ikcen wrote: »
    "...If there is no ganking, nobody will use caravans."
    Why? Didn't you just said that nobody will use caravan because it can be attacked? Now you're turning your statements around?
    Ikcen wrote: »
    "...so the caravans are linked to the corruption."
    Caravans does not give you corruption. You do not need to make the player who owns the caravan to be corrupted to steal their stuff from their caravan. Therefore, it is not linked to corruption. All you have to do is destroy their caravan and you will get a portion of the items stored in their caravan. How much is a portion? I don't know.
    Ikcen wrote: »
    Honestly I find that way of thinking very weird. Nobody kills anybody in the games. We play with immortal avatars.

    So I do not think shall I kill this person, which is a very weird question. I think what is the risk and the reward for me. And if the risk exceeds the reward, I will not take the action.

    Also there are people who like to troll, so he will let you PK him, if he believes that you will get bigger penalty. It is not important for me to be good, it is important you to feel bad.

    Also there are people who RP. That include gankers, but also pacifists.

    And such a system always could be abused. Like - I let you PK my alt, and then I take your gear with my main.

    Also nothing encourages team work like the free ganking. So this advertisement is a nonsense.
    Stop twisting your words. Immortal avatars or not, you're killing the player for your own personal gains. That's the only thing that matters. Yes, you need to think what's the risk and what's the reward, but ultimately, it all comes down to, "Do I need to kill this player or not?" It's the same. When you ask yourself that question, you will definitely think about the risks and the rewards.

    When speaking of trolls, I am sure you are speaking on your behalf. I will not kill anyone if they're non-combatant because I do not want to gain any Corruption. That is my stance. You do you. If someone is trolling you to make you PK them, then you're too gullible to be out in the open world. What does it matter anyway? If you want to kill that player, you kill them. Period.

    Surely there will be cooldowns to unflag yourself from PvP. If you flag for PvP or attack someone, you should not be able to unflag yourself until another 10-15 minutes. With that cooldown in place, you cannot make me PK you, since you're the one who started the PvP. We're both flagged for PvP. If one of us dies, none of us will get corruption. I don't know if the cooldown already exists but this is one of the thing that any systems designer will think of.
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  • AntVictusAntVictus Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Ikcen wrote: »
    It seem you do not get it. Or you do not want to get it. I do not say that caravans do not work. I say the players who carry good obviously will not have motivation to use them.

    And no, you do not kill players, animals, you kill nothing on the games.

    And you'd still be wrong. Stop trying to argue semantics. You've got no ammo left, you've been corrected over and over again. It's time to stop and get educated.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited June 2020
    Ikcen wrote: »
    It seem you do not get it. Or you do not want to get it. I do not say that caravans do not work. I say the players who carry good obviously will not have motivation to use them.
    50 minutes vs 83 hours a a whole lot of motivation.
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  • palabanapalabana Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Ikcen wrote: »
    It seem you do not get it. Or you do not want to get it. I do not say that caravans do not work. I say the players who carry good obviously will not have motivation to use them.
    These are what you've been saying for the past few pages:
    1. No motivation to use Caravan because it can be ganked. ("Here we get another problem - why anybody will use a caravan, if it could be attacked freely?")
    2. No motivation to use Caravan because it cannot be ganked. ("...If there is no ganking, nobody will use caravans.")

    10e3b35cbe853a3138130873bdee56c0.png?trs=740225b27ad20a1b507409d265538b524122f4e0373272ce5eee8a15b9960320
    Ikcen wrote: »
    And no, you do not kill players, animals, you kill nothing on the games. Let separate the RP from the mechanisms and the features.
    To kill a player in the game is a part of the game's mechanics and systems. Do you even understand what you're typing? Or what we've been discussing for the past few pages? We've been talking about PK and PvP, yet you're saying we don't kill anyone. This is a game where you kill players in the game. Yes, they can be resurrected or respawn, but what you do is, without a doubt, killing them.

    Are you using Google Translator? Maybe they're right. Maybe you're trolling after all.
  • cyanideinsanitycyanideinsanity Member, Warrior of Old, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited June 2020
    Ikcen wrote: »
    It seem you do not get it. Or you do not want to get it. I do not say that caravans do not work. I say the players who carry good obviously will not have motivation to use them.

    And no, you do not kill players, animals, you kill nothing on the games. Let separate the RP from the mechanisms and the features.

    I feel pretty confident in saying you're the only one who says that. Under no circumstances have I ever heard killing/death in a game referred to as explicitly rp.
  • AntVictusAntVictus Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Ikcen wrote: »
    noaani wrote: »
    If you intend on using a mule to transport goods instead of a caravan, you are painting a big target on your back saying "I have lots of resources, and no one protecting me, one hit of corruption for a whole pile of materials right here!".

    Again, OW does not work like you imagine it. I can go with a mule and a party or a whole guild of players to protect me.

    And any attacks will be prevented or reduced by the corruption system.

    If I use the caravan, the corruption system will not protect my goods anymore.

    Is my English so bad, or you just play stupid?

    No one except maybe a handful of people are going to escort a mule. No whole guild is going to put that much man power into that. It isn't worth it. So we end up back at the start. Is it worth it to attack a mule if they obviously have items...yes...yes it is. Do they have friends? Sure, and i'll bring a couple to deal with them as well, and then we'll just eat the corruption and go about our day until someone axes us...it's part of the game.

    A guild would certainly defend and escort a caravan though...because it's more valuable in resources. And a guild might well attack a caravan...because it's more valuable in resources and could stop something from being built on time, thus helping in a siege. As has been stated PREVIOUSLY.

    The corruption system isn't always going to protect you. It's meant to deter people, not prevent them from axing you but make them think twice on it.

    And no your english isn't that bad, you just keep ignoring everything that people keep telling you, so you keep reading the same thing. You're the one who isn't understanding something.
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  • palabanapalabana Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Ikcen wrote: »
    noaani wrote: »
    If you intend on using a mule to transport goods instead of a caravan, you are painting a big target on your back saying "I have lots of resources, and no one protecting me, one hit of corruption for a whole pile of materials right here!".

    Again, OW does not work like you imagine it. I can go with a mule and a party or a whole guild of players to protect me.

    And any attacks will be prevented or reduced by the corruption system.

    If I use the caravan, the corruption system will not protect my goods anymore.
    That is correct. It depends on you. You decide your mode of transportation. You want to use a mule and bring your whole guild to protect you? Go ahead. You want to bring a caravan and your whole guild to protect you? You can do that too.

    Obviously, if you are bringing your friends together, other players are much less likely to attack you. That also depends on the amount of your friends versus the amount of the attackers. If you have only 50 friends with you but your attacker brings 100 of their friends, you will lose. Corruption or not. Corruption only matters if the Corrupted player have too many corruption that they can't even land a hit on a player. At this point, they should stop and go remove their corruption.

    If you use the Caravan, the Corrupted player will stay corrupted. It doesn't matter where they are. Even if they are in Sieges, Caravans, GvG, if they're Corrupted, they're useless. You DO NOT GET Corruption through these sanctioned PvP events. However, you are STILL CORRUPTED no matter where you are. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about this.)
  • AntVictusAntVictus Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Yeah, you're definitely a troll. It's pretty obvious at this point.
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  • grisugrisu Member
    edited June 2020
    Just a quick note. I would suggest to say players with high enough corruption lose equipment, instead of dropping it. Dropping implies you or someone can pick it up, which isn't the case.
    So just to avoid confusion, maybe say it like that.

    I thought that was changed, guess not. Too much pvp talk.
    Thanks for the reminder @palabana
    Other than that lel, "if it's too loose with penalties it will fail" and suggest we should have free pk kills. You still don't understand the corruption mechanic and still continue to talk as if it's bad no matter how often people correct you. Obviously I'm addressing Ikcen

    Just stop feeding the troll people, he doesn't want to listen either way.
    I can be a life fulfilling dream. - Zekece
    I can be a life devouring nightmare. - Grisu#1819
  • palabanapalabana Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Note:
    Gank (your definition) = Kill (my definition)

    Ikcen wrote: »
    OK, at last that make sense. So the question is about the motivation. How the game will motivate many players to do one or another thing.

    As for the corruption - we do not know. You may be screwed on first PK, on 4th, on 10th. We are sure you will be screwed on 20th. So it depends.
    I'm in the same line of thinking of you. I'm thinking that when you PK an unflagged player, you will gain corruption. But how much corruption do you need until you become Corrupted? That is probably a hidden value that should not be revealed. Even if you become Corrupted on your first PK, the penalty also depends on the level on the player that you PK.

    If you are level 50, you PK level 10, you will get a lot of Corruption.

    If you are level 50, you PK level 50, you will most likely get only a little Corruption that it doesn't feel like a punishment at all.

    More Corruption = Heavier penalty. Not simply about how many you PK, also about how wide the level gaps are between you and the player you PK.
    Ikcen wrote: »
    If there is OW ganking that will motivate the players to use caravans. But at the same time the developers want to reduce the ganking. So the things are very complicated.
    The developers want to reduce ganking through the use of Corruption. But that's because they want you to do that ganking somewhere else, for example, by ganking Caravans.

    Gank at caravans, sieges, GvG = OK, no corruption
    Gank at other spots = Not OK, you get corruption
  • palabanapalabana Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    grisu wrote: »
    Just a quick note. I would suggest to say players with high enough corruption lose equipment, instead of dropping it. Dropping implies you or someone can pick it up, which isn't the case.
    So just to avoid confusion, maybe say it like that.
    No. High corruption players do drop equipments. It can be looted.

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Looting#Player_death
  • deadmanspricedeadmansprice Moderator, Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Thread closed and sunk. Please remember that the block function exists if someone is very hostile to you or aggravates you greatly.
    volunteer_moderator.gif
This discussion has been closed.