none of these really say "legendary" to me, though many of the listed abilities are cool and seem useful. In this sort of game, I would expect something labeled "legendary" to give your team a serious edge in a siege or 40 player raid. When I think of a legendary weapon I think of Anduril from LotR. A sword that strikes fear in the hearts of devils and compels the service of ghosts. Not, "does more dps in a kind of interesting way". Something only a worthy few could even touch, let alone wield.
I do think these concepts you have outlined would work well as craftables made from rare or even unique resources (like the body parts of a certain boss). A player who had any of these would definitely be impressive. I just don't know if you can manufacture true legends.
Aivlia Torladottir of Dün. Blacksmith, Lucky Wolf Trading Co.
Imagination is the highest kite you can fly.
none of these really say "legendary" to me, though many of the listed abilities are cool and seem useful. In this sort of game, I would expect something labeled "legendary" to give your team a serious edge in a siege or 40 player raid. When I think of a legendary weapon I think of Anduril from LotR. A sword that strikes fear in the hearts of devils and compels the service of ghosts. Not, "does more dps in a kind of interesting way". Something only a worthy few could even touch, let alone wield.
I do think these concepts you have outlined would work well as craftables made from rare or even unique resources (like the body parts of a certain boss). A player who had any of these would definitely be impressive. I just don't know if you can manufacture true legends.
There comes the question "What is more important: balancing or epicness."
none of these really say "legendary" to me, though many of the listed abilities are cool and seem useful. In this sort of game, I would expect something labeled "legendary" to give your team a serious edge in a siege or 40 player raid. When I think of a legendary weapon I think of Anduril from LotR. A sword that strikes fear in the hearts of devils and compels the service of ghosts. Not, "does more dps in a kind of interesting way". Something only a worthy few could even touch, let alone wield.
I do think these concepts you have outlined would work well as craftables made from rare or even unique resources (like the body parts of a certain boss). A player who had any of these would definitely be impressive. I just don't know if you can manufacture true legends.
There comes the question "What is more important: balancing or epicness."
It is possible to have balance and epicness together.
There is a third factor in this though - uniqueness.
Between these three, only two are possible.
You can have a game with unique weapons that are balanced and not overly epic, or that are epic but not overly balanced - or you can have a game with epic weapons that are still balanced, but are somewhat readily available to everyone after a specific point in progression.
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NagashMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
none of these really say "legendary" to me, though many of the listed abilities are cool and seem useful. In this sort of game, I would expect something labeled "legendary" to give your team a serious edge in a siege or 40 player raid. When I think of a legendary weapon I think of Anduril from LotR. A sword that strikes fear in the hearts of devils and compels the service of ghosts. Not, "does more dps in a kind of interesting way". Something only a worthy few could even touch, let alone wield.
I do think these concepts you have outlined would work well as craftables made from rare or even unique resources (like the body parts of a certain boss). A player who had any of these would definitely be impressive. I just don't know if you can manufacture true legends.
There comes the question "What is more important: balancing or epicness."
always epicness that's why they are legendary weapons and not mass made rubbish
The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
I think you could have all three of those qualifiers @noaani Something could be one of a kind, and awesome looking cool effect weapon, and balanced by other factors, like it not being reskinable to another thing, So you know to either avoid, or pile on that guy, so it translates to an advantage to that players side, but not an overwhelming one. While still making it something you don't want to see in someones hand in a dark alley lol
always epicness that's why they are legendary weapons and not mass made rubbish
You'd probably change your mind if someone in an opposing guild or node had an unbalanced epic weapon, and no one in your guild or node had anything to combat it.
I think you could have all three of those qualifiers @noaani Something could be one of a kind, and awesome looking cool effect weapon, and balanced by other factors, like it not being reskinable to another thing, So you know to either avoid, or pile on that guy, so it translates to an advantage to that players side, but not an overwhelming one. While still making it something you don't want to see in someones hand in a dark alley lol
If you are in a guild/node war, or even a siege, and your side has to allocate 3 people to match one weapon, you would also change your mind on that being ok.
Having a very strong weapon isn't negated if the opposition know you have a very strong weapon. If nothing else, even if it were skinned, they would know you have it by the time they engage you a second time.
I think legendaries should have powerful active abilities attached to them. A legendary should take time, effort, and luck to obtain so only the best of the best have them bringing the weapon a lot of prestige. If a legendary has a simple but powerful passive, such as a bleed what makes that weapon anymore legendary than a kitchen knife? If you see a legendary you should be able to immediately recognize it and it's user, and be amazed, yet afraid by what it's capable of just from a quick glance.
I think legendaries should have powerful active abilities attached to them. A legendary should take time, effort, and luck to obtain so only the best of the best have them bringing the weapon a lot of prestige. If a legendary has a simple but powerful passive, such as a bleed what makes that weapon anymore legendary than a kitchen knife? If you see a legendary you should be able to immediately recognize it and it's user, and be amazed, yet afraid by what it's capable of just from a quick glance.
The idea behind most of the legendaries that i posted was that their effects on their own werent strong, but that they all stacked in some regard.
A .1sec stun for example isnt that big a deal on its own. But if you combine it with a attackspeed focused rogue, then it is the enemy of all caster classes.
A 5% armor reduction isnt that big a deal, but if you can stack it with each auto attack up to 25%? That will let you shredd tanks.
Remember, that these were mostly ideas for craftable legendaries (that means that there is a chance for tthere to be multiple of each at the same time)
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NagashMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
always epicness that's why they are legendary weapons and not mass made rubbish
You'd probably change your mind if someone in an opposing guild or node had an unbalanced epic weapon, and no one in your guild or node had anything to combat it.
I think you could have all three of those qualifiers @noaani Something could be one of a kind, and awesome looking cool effect weapon, and balanced by other factors, like it not being reskinable to another thing, So you know to either avoid, or pile on that guy, so it translates to an advantage to that players side, but not an overwhelming one. While still making it something you don't want to see in someones hand in a dark alley lol
If you are in a guild/node war, or even a siege, and your side has to allocate 3 people to match one weapon, you would also change your mind on that being ok.
Having a very strong weapon isn't negated if the opposition know you have a very strong weapon. If nothing else, even if it were skinned, they would know you have it by the time they engage you a second time.
if you make it so hard to get that only 0.5 of people to have it then Im fine with that
The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
if you make it so hard to get that only 0.5 of people to have it then Im fine with that
If only 0.5% of players get one, it will be the player that is always active that has it. It will also tend to be people within the same few guilds on each server that has them - as this is how these things always end up.
That means, first up, that you will come across it more often than one in every 200 1v1 PvP fights that one would expect with 0.5% of players having one.
It also means a small guild of players that are able to put more time in to the game are able to wield a significantly greater influence over the server as a whole than their time in game would otherwise suggest. If a small guild of players does manage to get several of these items (as is almost guaranteed), then larger guilds simply won't be interested in opposing them.
An overpowered weapon being rare doesn't mean it isn't still overpowered. All that means is that it is harder to get a counter to it.
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NagashMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
if you make it so hard to get that only 0.5 of people to have it then Im fine with that
If only 0.5% of players get one, it will be the player that is always active that has it. It will also tend to be people within the same few guilds on each server that has them - as this is how these things always end up.
That means, first up, that you will come across it more often than one in every 200 1v1 PvP fights that one would expect with 0.5% of players having one.
It also means a small guild of players that are able to put more time in to the game are able to wield a significantly greater influence over the server as a whole than their time in game would otherwise suggest. If a small guild of players does manage to get several of these items (as is almost guaranteed), then larger guilds simply won't be interested in opposing them.
An overpowered weapon being rare doesn't mean it isn't still overpowered. All that means is that it is harder to get a counter to it.
I know it would be overpowered but what's the point of legendaries if they are not powerful
The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
The idea behind most of the legendaries that i posted was that their effects on their own werent strong, but that they all stacked in some regard.
A .1sec stun for example isnt that big a deal on its own. But if you combine it with a attackspeed focused rogue, then it is the enemy of all caster classes.
A 5% armor reduction isnt that big a deal, but if you can stack it with each auto attack up to 25%? That will let you shredd tanks.
Remember, that these were mostly ideas for craftable legendaries (that means that there is a chance for tthere to be multiple of each at the same time)
I agree with the right build those items could be powerful but I don't think items like that need to be legendary they seem more like epics in my opinion. In the end, it all depends on the flow and feel of the game when it comes down to how impactful high-end gear should be so we'll just have to wait and see.
if you make it so hard to get that only 0.5 of people to have it then Im fine with that
If only 0.5% of players get one, it will be the player that is always active that has it. It will also tend to be people within the same few guilds on each server that has them - as this is how these things always end up.
That means, first up, that you will come across it more often than one in every 200 1v1 PvP fights that one would expect with 0.5% of players having one.
It also means a small guild of players that are able to put more time in to the game are able to wield a significantly greater influence over the server as a whole than their time in game would otherwise suggest. If a small guild of players does manage to get several of these items (as is almost guaranteed), then larger guilds simply won't be interested in opposing them.
An overpowered weapon being rare doesn't mean it isn't still overpowered. All that means is that it is harder to get a counter to it.
I know it would be overpowered but what's the point of legendaries if they are not powerful
I didn't say they couldn't be powerful, I said they couldn't be powerful AND unique, assuming you want balance.
With how much influence players will have over the world of Ashes, the single most important thing for the developers to do is make sure a small group of players can't gain undue influence. Rare weapons of extreme power will facilitate this, and thus is a really, really bad idea.
The game would be better off without powerful weapons than with them being overly rare - or with rare weapons that are significantly less powerful.
I think it's best if a smaller group can become powerful due to an ace up their sleeve. It keeps the political landscapes and power struggles fresh as new groups will emerge founded around these powerful entities to disrupt the order of things and cause new player-made events to happen.
I think it's best if a smaller group can become powerful due to an ace up their sleeve. It keeps the political landscapes and power struggles fresh as new groups will emerge founded around these powerful entities to disrupt the order of things and cause new player-made events to happen.
The problem with this is that small groups don't fracture as much as large groups do.
Large groups of players absolutely can and will hold some degree of influence over a server, this is basically a give. The thing is, their size is their weakness.
This doesn't lead to power struggles, it leads to one small group having more power than they should, and no one being in a position to challenge that. Giving groups an occasional advantage is a good thing - even if it's small groups. That advantage though, really needs to be a short term situation.
If you are a small group, and your influence comes largely from the fact that you have several items that are exceedingly powerful, players aren't going to have any real incentive to allow a fracture in that group. They are close knit as a group, and likely understand where the undue influence they wield comes from. Further, they would know that if the core group fractured, the influence they wield over the server as a whole would wane.
It would get to the point, eventually, where the only way to take this undue influence from these players is by reducing the advantage they have via the weapons they have - at which point the question becomes, why bother in the first place?
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One way epic weapons could be super rare, super epic and still maintain balance is if they are only able to be used for 30 days. I'm not the biggest fan of this, but it absolutely could create some interesting political/PvP moments if one group suddenly gains a bit more power due to a temporary weapon, but where it is take away after a month.
I liked GW2's initial approach to legendary weapons. I only played the first year of the game before WvWvW got stale but their differences from exotic to legendary was about a 5-7% difference in stats but usually had a sweet look and animation. It needs to stand out in some way so other players know but the weapon shouldn't carry the player. As long as you don't make the weapons that much more powerful then leave it up to the player to make the legendary shine.
I liked GW2's initial approach to legendary weapons. I only played the first year of the game before WvWvW got stale but their differences from exotic to legendary was about a 5-7% difference in stats but usually had a sweet look and animation. It needs to stand out in some way so other players know but the weapon shouldn't carry the player. As long as you don't make the weapons that much more powerful then leave it up to the player to make the legendary shine.
I liked their compendium approach the best. Collect materials or complete tasks to fill out your 3-4 compendia, craft the necessary parts and then combine them.
I liked GW2's initial approach to legendary weapons. I only played the first year of the game before WvWvW got stale but their differences from exotic to legendary was about a 5-7% difference in stats but usually had a sweet look and animation. It needs to stand out in some way so other players know but the weapon shouldn't carry the player. As long as you don't make the weapons that much more powerful then leave it up to the player to make the legendary shine.
I liked their compendium approach the best. Collect materials or complete tasks to fill out your 3-4 compendia, craft the necessary parts and then combine them.
Yep! I did enjoy that method but I do hope they build on that idea a little more because iirc that was really RNG at the end of the day when you would combine x amount of items together in hopes you proc'd a legendary.
I did notice on the wiki that items will have something called an attachment to add flair. Maybe legendary items can be more focused on the stats and add a particle effect but leave it up to the player to add whatever attachment they want to give that item their own personal look?
I liked GW2's initial approach to legendary weapons. I only played the first year of the game before WvWvW got stale but their differences from exotic to legendary was about a 5-7% difference in stats but usually had a sweet look and animation. It needs to stand out in some way so other players know but the weapon shouldn't carry the player. As long as you don't make the weapons that much more powerful then leave it up to the player to make the legendary shine.
I liked their compendium approach the best. Collect materials or complete tasks to fill out your 3-4 compendia, craft the necessary parts and then combine them.
Yep! I did enjoy that method but I do hope they build on that idea a little more because iirc that was really RNG at the end of the day when you would combine x amount of items together in hopes you proc'd a legendary.
I did notice on the wiki that items will have something called an attachment to add flair. Maybe legendary items can be more focused on the stats and add a particle effect but leave it up to the player to add whatever attachment they want to give that item their own personal look?
They already did that
The first compendium generation only gave the primer right? The second and third gives the direct legendary i believe.
I liked GW2's initial approach to legendary weapons. I only played the first year of the game before WvWvW got stale but their differences from exotic to legendary was about a 5-7% difference in stats but usually had a sweet look and animation. It needs to stand out in some way so other players know but the weapon shouldn't carry the player. As long as you don't make the weapons that much more powerful then leave it up to the player to make the legendary shine.
I liked their compendium approach the best. Collect materials or complete tasks to fill out your 3-4 compendia, craft the necessary parts and then combine them.
Yep! I did enjoy that method but I do hope they build on that idea a little more because iirc that was really RNG at the end of the day when you would combine x amount of items together in hopes you proc'd a legendary.
I did notice on the wiki that items will have something called an attachment to add flair. Maybe legendary items can be more focused on the stats and add a particle effect but leave it up to the player to add whatever attachment they want to give that item their own personal look?
They already did that
The first compendium generation only gave the primer right? The second and third gives the direct legendary i believe.
Something like that. That was years ago for me. All I can recall is that it was still heavily RNG based.
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codewarlockMember, Phoenix Initiative, Hero of the People, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I would love a system similar to Achaea or another mmo a friend told me about (Lineage 2?) where Legendaries or Legendary grade items are either just found in the open world through exploring or through server wide events (demon lord invading, cleansing ritual, etc). Only one copy of the weapon or item can be held by any player, at any given time. Each item has incredible power or unique abilities such as enhanced damage, ressurection skills, health/mana leeching, wide-cone knockback, greater stun chance, or even odd things like increased gold or item drop.
The trade off for wielding such an awesome item would be a 7 day max time limit and being flagged for PvP while claiming ownership of it. Dropping it by choice despawns the item for the next event and being slain drops the item for the killers to loot for a limited time, thus starting the cycle over again. At the end of 7 days, the item naturally dissapears.
In this system, Legendaries do provide a great benefit for the owner while not becoming a crutch in game play. The owner, for a time, can feel special since they have a one-of-a-kind item at their disposal. If they log and try to horde the item, it'll just reset in a week. It can provide conflict between players and especially guilds, and create interesting sieges!
Comments
I think it would be pretty cool if there were unique weapons that were one-of-a-kind.
I do think these concepts you have outlined would work well as craftables made from rare or even unique resources (like the body parts of a certain boss). A player who had any of these would definitely be impressive. I just don't know if you can manufacture true legends.
Imagination is the highest kite you can fly.
There comes the question "What is more important: balancing or epicness."
It is possible to have balance and epicness together.
There is a third factor in this though - uniqueness.
Between these three, only two are possible.
You can have a game with unique weapons that are balanced and not overly epic, or that are epic but not overly balanced - or you can have a game with epic weapons that are still balanced, but are somewhat readily available to everyone after a specific point in progression.
always epicness that's why they are legendary weapons and not mass made rubbish
If you are in a guild/node war, or even a siege, and your side has to allocate 3 people to match one weapon, you would also change your mind on that being ok.
Having a very strong weapon isn't negated if the opposition know you have a very strong weapon. If nothing else, even if it were skinned, they would know you have it by the time they engage you a second time.
The idea behind most of the legendaries that i posted was that their effects on their own werent strong, but that they all stacked in some regard.
A .1sec stun for example isnt that big a deal on its own. But if you combine it with a attackspeed focused rogue, then it is the enemy of all caster classes.
A 5% armor reduction isnt that big a deal, but if you can stack it with each auto attack up to 25%? That will let you shredd tanks.
Remember, that these were mostly ideas for craftable legendaries (that means that there is a chance for tthere to be multiple of each at the same time)
if you make it so hard to get that only 0.5 of people to have it then Im fine with that
That means, first up, that you will come across it more often than one in every 200 1v1 PvP fights that one would expect with 0.5% of players having one.
It also means a small guild of players that are able to put more time in to the game are able to wield a significantly greater influence over the server as a whole than their time in game would otherwise suggest. If a small guild of players does manage to get several of these items (as is almost guaranteed), then larger guilds simply won't be interested in opposing them.
An overpowered weapon being rare doesn't mean it isn't still overpowered. All that means is that it is harder to get a counter to it.
I know it would be overpowered but what's the point of legendaries if they are not powerful
Staff of Avis: Turns up to three mobs into pet ravens that attack nearby enemies for 30 seconds.
Guardian of the Kingdom of Tyria.
Nice idea!
I agree with the right build those items could be powerful but I don't think items like that need to be legendary they seem more like epics in my opinion. In the end, it all depends on the flow and feel of the game when it comes down to how impactful high-end gear should be so we'll just have to wait and see.
I didn't say they couldn't be powerful, I said they couldn't be powerful AND unique, assuming you want balance.
With how much influence players will have over the world of Ashes, the single most important thing for the developers to do is make sure a small group of players can't gain undue influence. Rare weapons of extreme power will facilitate this, and thus is a really, really bad idea.
The game would be better off without powerful weapons than with them being overly rare - or with rare weapons that are significantly less powerful.
The problem with this is that small groups don't fracture as much as large groups do.
Large groups of players absolutely can and will hold some degree of influence over a server, this is basically a give. The thing is, their size is their weakness.
This doesn't lead to power struggles, it leads to one small group having more power than they should, and no one being in a position to challenge that. Giving groups an occasional advantage is a good thing - even if it's small groups. That advantage though, really needs to be a short term situation.
If you are a small group, and your influence comes largely from the fact that you have several items that are exceedingly powerful, players aren't going to have any real incentive to allow a fracture in that group. They are close knit as a group, and likely understand where the undue influence they wield comes from. Further, they would know that if the core group fractured, the influence they wield over the server as a whole would wane.
It would get to the point, eventually, where the only way to take this undue influence from these players is by reducing the advantage they have via the weapons they have - at which point the question becomes, why bother in the first place?
---
One way epic weapons could be super rare, super epic and still maintain balance is if they are only able to be used for 30 days. I'm not the biggest fan of this, but it absolutely could create some interesting political/PvP moments if one group suddenly gains a bit more power due to a temporary weapon, but where it is take away after a month.
I liked their compendium approach the best. Collect materials or complete tasks to fill out your 3-4 compendia, craft the necessary parts and then combine them.
Yep! I did enjoy that method but I do hope they build on that idea a little more because iirc that was really RNG at the end of the day when you would combine x amount of items together in hopes you proc'd a legendary.
I did notice on the wiki that items will have something called an attachment to add flair. Maybe legendary items can be more focused on the stats and add a particle effect but leave it up to the player to add whatever attachment they want to give that item their own personal look?
They already did that
The first compendium generation only gave the primer right? The second and third gives the direct legendary i believe.
Something like that. That was years ago for me. All I can recall is that it was still heavily RNG based.
The trade off for wielding such an awesome item would be a 7 day max time limit and being flagged for PvP while claiming ownership of it. Dropping it by choice despawns the item for the next event and being slain drops the item for the killers to loot for a limited time, thus starting the cycle over again. At the end of 7 days, the item naturally dissapears.
In this system, Legendaries do provide a great benefit for the owner while not becoming a crutch in game play. The owner, for a time, can feel special since they have a one-of-a-kind item at their disposal. If they log and try to horde the item, it'll just reset in a week. It can provide conflict between players and especially guilds, and create interesting sieges!