Greetings, glorious testers!
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Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
We're going to go line by line here.
Ok, sure... Correct. Now we have a problem. I haven't bothered mentioning this as yet, because I thought it honestly went without saying. However, since I am now explaining this for the THIRD TIME, going over these things that should be obvious is apparently what I now need to do.
Variation isn't going to just swap things around between multiple metas. The only way this could happen is if the game is specifically designed to only allow for those builds (ie, current WoW class design). This literally goes against what Ashes is, and so is simply not going to happen.
As such, this variation HAS TO BE some form of random variation to encounters. Literally nothing else is viable - and this specific variation is already something Intrepid has planned for at least some content in the game. Indeed, because the change would have to be very small, otherwise you wouldn't know what classes you need to bring along on group content. This is something Intrepid have said you will be able to do - while talking about the content variation system they have planned for the game.
So, these variations would need to be small. Indeed. I'll notice a 2% increase in HP to a raid boss. Indeed. Players have no control over it, attempting to assert control over it would take more time than you would gain back since it will change again tomorrow, and the effects are minimal enough that you can just play through it.
Ignoring it is literally the only viable path for players to take with your developer forced variation to content suggestion (and with the system as planned by Intrepid). This line simply does not follow from the above.
You may as well have said "I want some cake, you have some cake, therefore, Teletubbies are scary".
That is the level of disconnect between the first six lines above and the last line. It simply does not follow.
Now, before we carry on dissecting this last line - which I will do in a follow up post if you answer this question - we need an answer to exactly what the variation is you are talking about in this last line.
In chess competitions, players will often watch matches of potential opponents to gather the data I specifically talked about above. Most chess competitions have a move by move of every game they host, so that players can study their opponents.
While it isn't in the games rules, it absolutely is a part of chess - a part that you simply can not rise to any form of success without participating in. It is not cheating in any way, it is not considered cheating by any one - and you are probably the only person in history that has ever suggested that watching two other people playing a game of chess amounts to cheating at chess (which is literally what you said above).
doing research, learning from others, dissecting gameplay step by step are not cheats
it honestly baffles me that mmo forum posters are the only players in existence that derive their enjoyment of their game of choice from boasting on forums that everything they do is self taught and guides are for scrubs
― Plato
No us shooter players play by skill and feeling.
~shameless plug~
Obviously, you've ever only played WoW then. Just give it a moment, Nooani will explain this to you.
GG
When i say everyone i mean like 90%+ of mmo gamers.
Nah, I have a purpose for making that claim.
If someone says their experience is something that is basically limited to WoW, and I comment that they must have only played WoW, what people tend to do is list off a whole pile of what ever MMO's they have heard of (or they google "MMOthat isnt WoW", idk).
What then happens is, people read the experience this person has claimed, look at the games they claim to have played, see some games they have played, remember that said experience never happened to them in that game, and understand how much bullshit that person is full of.
Basically, it is a method to give people an opportunity to out themselves as being full of said bullshit - one that many people gladly jump on without even realizing what has happened.
I wouldn't bother doing this with Dygz because 1, I already know much his gaming history (and he knows I know), and 2, despite us disagreeing often, he is smarter than that.
We all know who all the BS is coming from.
If a game has many "best builds" that are all about equal, with a combat tracker, people will happily say any of those builds are fine to run.
The thing is, without a combat tracker, people wont know those builds are all about equal. In fact, in the one game I played where combat tracker usage was low (Archeage), the games meta had basically nothing at all to do with the best builds.
The games meta was based on what people thought the best builds were.
If you are a great player and you play an average build, if you mow through others they'll start thinking your build is the meta. As such, they will use it. Then everyone will see more and more people playing this build, and just assume that is because it is the best build.
This is basically what happened in Archeage - except it all happened on Korean servers before NA/EU servers even went live. By the time our servers went live, we had a meta, people stuck with it, few people were capable of checking it, and as a result that exact meta stayed the same for more than half a decade.
Adding some variation to things (however you wish to add it) isnt going to alter the fact that without a combat tracker, players basically just guess what the meta is, expect/demand others use it, and it basically never changes.
Basically, without objective data, others will expect/demand that you use specific builds - regardless of how good they are - simply due to familiarity. If they have had success with that build in the past, at least they know the build is up to the task.
If the developers start to then extend the period of time between balance changes (any form of variation intended to alter balance) you start to get in to a situation where players are basically have to relearn the game every few months (or at least respec and regear).
This is what ESO does. Ask people like @George_Black what they think of games that just up and change things for no real reason every few months like that.
Point is, if your goal is to have a situation where players have as wide a variety of builds that others will accept as is possible, you only need two things.
The first one is a developer that gives us classes that have multiple viable builds. There is no scenario in which players are free to run any of many builds unless the developer has done this.
The second thing that is needed is for players to know these builds are all about equal. The only way they can know this for sure is with objective data, and the only valid way to get that level of objective data is a combat tracker.
Even WoW - the single most analyzed MMO in history - there was a new and improved meta for setting up a raid that was found only a year or two ago.
After a decade in EQ2, I was still working on new builds for my main right up until I decided to leave the game. Players that want to do well on content will always dictate what builds are acceptable. If you want to expand the number of builds available, players need to understand that more builds are viable. This depends.
Were that group of friends happy just meandering along not being overly successful? Or did they want to improve? If they wanted to improve, and that one player went out and found the information they all need to improve, he is not the toxic player, he is the hero.
On the other hand, if the rest of the friends are happy just lazing around at their own pace but that one friend wants to see more of the game than that allows for, is he the toxic one for wanting to do better, or are the others the toxic ones for holding him back?
This is essentially the same thing I have been saying for a while, the issue is when players of differing play styles attempt to play together.
In your scenario, the problem was that one player among that group of friends wanted to play the game in a different way to the rest of the group. Even without combat trackers, that player would have wanted to play the game better, and would have found *some* information on how to play better than the group was.
Your argument here isn't with combat trackers at all. The things you are talking about will happen with or without them.
Essentially, you are trying to argue that knowledge of the game should not be shared at all.
I'll say it again for you though, your issue is not with combat trackers. Literally none of the issues you have talked about have been caused by combat trackers, nor would any of them be resolved by their removal.
If you are pro-data, or pro-information, then you are pro-combat tracker - even if you do not realize it. You may have concerns with how that data or information is then shared, but that is not the purview of combat trackers.
They simply enable efficient collection of that data - nothing more.
While group cohesion = group with same mind... You are just blind to not see group where leader lose all leadership. It happens often... I saw it in casual guilds that goes in PvE progress but with not big goals (just go "as far as we can" ) everytime, some people in the guild will get too far into the "pushing" mindset. And they will become quite harsh to people that are deadweight (and there isn't needed a combat tracker to know who.)
The group cohesion is falling at this point, because the group is now 2 differnet mindset that can't exist together
At this point, a guild has 2 future :
1) The guild evolve, change, the progress become a thing, The guildmate there just "to chill" often can stay but are not anymore in the raids. Or they leave.
2) Most guild members prefer to chill and the players who wants progress leaves due to frustration.
In both case, the guildmaster in the "minority side" has 2 solutions : admit being out of touch, give the lead. (in first case, he can keep it while giving enough tools for the officers in "progress" mindset to do organize the raids... but it often end with the guildmaster title being given)
Or... stay a tyrant. . .
The tyrant has the button sure... Who cares. People will rebuild a guild, or all leave to join the guild of some friends
"Yeah but you speak about guild not group" But it is mostly the same no ?
Ashes of Creation is a lot about social interaction, and raid 40 people will need some logistic bind to guilds.
Buuuut ok, lets spoke about some PU group for some content not so hard.
Just let see FFXIV and primal farm.
Yes, the kick comes from the partyleader, sure... And it rarely needs debate because people joined this farm party because the title/description defined if it was chill or "hardcore" so kicking a party member out of place seems normal and without need to debate (which would be lost of time in both situation...)
What if the party leader decide to kick and people disagree or find it excessiv : or people shut up (so in fact it is not a so big problem for them) or... they protest and, because most of time the pride make partylead to stick its way, they all leave... and reform the party.
The kick is not just "right-click => kick" it can also be "lets do a party but not with him"
Macro that generates autorotation from one click are similar to aim assist
DPS meter / combat tracker are just... metric.
all those 3 things (combat tracker, aim assist or macro) can be developped by another dude, and you just set up his files on your computer then enjoy.
But combat tracker won't make you good. while macro will do the perfect cycle for your skills and the aim assist will allow you to do headshot while aiming 3 meters away...
Combat tracker it is just result from various test, but you still have to do test... SO you have to find out what test you have to do.
You could try 100 differents ways to DPS the dummy in front of you, define the best of the 100, be happy, and still suck :
-maybe you didnt find out the real best way yet.
-ok, you have the dummy best cycle, but you have a real static class and fights will force you to move (or other similar problem between theory and reality)
You still have to play well, having the answer on "how to play" does not me "you know how to play" and even less "you are good"
Aimbot allows you to have good stats even when playing with your feets. Combat tracker will just show you that you are still playing with your feet, and allow you how to use your hands instead... It will remains to you to improve.
You can... Harder without combat tracker, but you can.
And harder you do this work, the more you tear apart your community. because some will do... (Or they will just get bored of a boring game and leave)
But harder it is to work its own efficiency, the more difference there will be between people trying to get it and the others that in the end, play with pure "i feel this is better"
On FFXIV combat tracker are against TOS clearly
https://www.fflogs.com/
This site is just lots of data uploaded from ... combat trackers
While some debate around parsers on FFXIV forum some people discovered that they have statistics of them on this site without even knowing it before...
They were in party where one or more people had combat tracker running, and those people did upload the datas to the site... And they could only discovered it because on the forum debate the site was linked, explained, they roamed it, typed their character name, and discovered this...
People will use combat tracker,
Any unknown people you will party with will maybe use it... maybe not. And you will never know about it.
Now ask yourself why the only way to get banned from FFXIV for using parsers is ONLY if you kick a dude from your party while SAYING you kick him for bad DPS (if you kick him but don't say why, you won't have any problem)?
Why some video with kills from top world there are proof they have modified ACT to also do the calls during the fights and those same party are not banned ?
Simply : Yoshida doesn't want to kill the PvE of his game. While those people, pushing always higher their own performance are a really, cool and shiny show for lot of people... who could think to do those really hard high end content. so... more customers.
It doesn't matter if the only way to get banned from FFXIV for using parsers is ONLY if you kick a dude while SAYING you kick him for bad DPS.
What matters is that the devs don't provide players with DPS meters.
I am so glad it isnt Steven's call.
I'm expecting this comment to be a joke.
Not at all.
As I've said a few times, multiple trackers already exist for the game, and dont break the ToS.
The best people that dont want trackers can hope for is an FFXIV style rule where they aren't allowed to be talked about in game - but I doubt that will work well with voice chat.
Can you link me the official TOS and also a quote saying it wont be updated for release?
So its a job intrepid can have done for them. I think thats a good thing. Faster game release that way
Nope.
What I can do is tell you that the ToS of a piece of software can only define the terms of how you use that piece of software.
Current combat trackers for Ashes do not interact with Intrepids software at all. As such, the ToS simply can not have anything at all in it to prevent their use.
I mean, a competent developer should be able to code a combat tracker I a day or two (or they could use the one that was already made by an Intrepid developer).
The part of it that would take the most time is UI design - but that would fall in with all other UI work.
Then I'm assuming its a program takes abilities and such and lets you see dmg theoretically in a certain perfect situation based on things you input in. Though it will be faking to account for downtime on skills and such to get your damage numbers. So either way it won't be accurate of actual combat.