Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
Funny that you don't even know that every player has access to a special room (trixion) where you have fully built in dps meter with many configuratable settings and build options to test
Not to say you are completely ignorant of the theorycrafting discords that disect the best way to play current classes and create meta guides for it where people make decisions on super minute things that can boost your output two-fold
― Plato
Less than a dozen peoples shows exactly why you were stuck in your own arguments and bias and aren't paying attention to what people think or want. Again you need to go reread things and understand that almost everyone is against what you are wanting.
You try to speak for a majority that in the end doesn't really give a f*** about meters and just wants a good game
― Plato
I didn't decide go reread the thread and understand people rather than trying to argue people. You literally are blind to the amount of people that are against the garbage you want, even more so in the case where you can view other players.
You are in the extreme minority NO ONE is backing you except a small handful of people and elitist. EVERYONE else is against this garbage get it through your head instead of sticking to YOUR BIAS. Stop trying to force your bs on a community that doesn't want it, go play WoW.
It is so clear that you are trying to get us into a deadlock where we both shout at each other that the other one is in echochamber.
What I can do is to point you toward download counts for xxiv/eq2 meters (i know the meter is used towards other games as well, but 2.7mil downloads is quite a lot). Then go and find lost ark discords and watch some class discords - you get daily people posting there what they were trying to find out in the lost ark dps meter room.
All you are doing is saying that you don't approve the playstyle of these people, so they have to abandon it or they will be banned from this game
― Plato
LMFAO Stop lying you don't do the work, the software does the damn work for you. All you do is hit your skills until the best option is shown there is no actual effort put in you are literarily being brain dead. The tool is there to watch people more than anything, and make things extreme easy at doing so.
Use the combat log if you think its the same thing and you will have 0 issue against what the community wants
holy shit you are a special one. Comparing combat assist addon with a combat log tracker
You misunderstand the topic, you argue without facts - just subjective "feels" and then you are insulting others for being "brain dead"?
Were you abused as a child? Or is there a different trauma for you to be this disconnected from reality?
― Plato
You are literately a issue, you are going to be loud now and quiet later on if you realize you can get banned for it.
Why would they give you a refund when eventually you are going to end up admitting it and getting banned anyway? Easy money for them lol.
in that case a fast google search spits out this:
"Legality. Phone hacking, being a form of surveillance, is illegal in many countries unless it is carried out as lawful interception by a government agency"
― Plato
I don't believe you, you have already stated you will go against the TOS and clearly will lie later on when you are using trackers. You aren't a honest person you are trying to say whatever you can to involve tracks, etc.
Every other honest person says there are good elements that makes it way easier to optimize and help people, and also acknowledges and sees the toxic elements first hand. But you with your decades of mmo experience says you haven't seen it used in a toxic way, you are bsing to try to convince people. We are all seeing through that.
― Plato
Me saying I use a combat tracker to parse combat on YouTube videos or streams or what ever is not going to be grounds for a ban.
I mean, I've made enough of a deal about it that I literally expect Intrepid to use me as the means to see if they can detect combat tracking software (and I have said as much innthe past). If they intend to actually ban players caught using tracking software, they first need to develop tools to detect it. Once developed, they need to test it before putting any weight behind what it finds. I fully expect to be the target of that test.
As I said, never seen a toxic interaction that is due to combat trackers. You dont need to believe me, and that's fine. However, since I have never owned a WoW account, and thus never needed to participate in WoWs LFG system, it really shouldnt be a surprise to anyone paying attention that I have not seen any such interaction.
I will say, you are now at the point in the "Stubborn Internet User Guidebook" where it is obvious you have no argument left to make against trackers, but since the stubborn part of the title prevents you from altering your opinion, all you are left with is attacks on people on the opposing side of the debate whom are still making valid points, points that you cant seem to refute.
You aren't making valid points, and lying or skewing context of what happens to convince yourself it isn't toxic isn't going to work.
We all know you will do whatever means possible and that includes being disingenuous with information. You haven't earned trust to take your words at face value by any means in this conversation. All your points have been garbage and already broken down by other people, you don't care what other people think or want only what you want at the end of the day.
The fact your you said if someone else does it you should be able to do it is frankly stupid and childish. You aren't a hero, you aren't a developer, the devs can worry about things and you can play the game as it is intended.
Granted you have to much ego to get off your high horse.
I bet only one of the people on that page (before Noaani is even involved) would object to the compromise being advocated for.
I'm probably not writing a whole parser just to disprove your Siegfried Leap, @Mag7spy, especially since I figure Noaani will ignore you soon enough, but if you insist on doing your usual, I can assign someone else to write it.
It's bad enough when you do the 'Invisible Silent Majority' thing, but straight up lying about a "Visible Engaged Majority" is going a bit low.
If you actually look through the pages its pretty clear people do not want dps meters I'm sure you can reread it and refresh your memory.
I'm willing to bet this is a lie. That's all I plan to say here, because even if I prove it's a lie, I get nothing out of it and it won't change you, as there's no Forum Rules against lying that I'm aware of, and you could easily just claim that you 'assumed it was true' and didn't 'really mean to lie'.
I'll count this as 'insisting', though.
All the post are there people have gone through it lmao. If you don't want to understand how people and the community feels that is on you.
Its funny that you would assume the other way though without actually looking through the forum post with the 100 pages that are up. That is why you and I are different' ill look through pages and see the people for, against, half against and their reasons for unique people.
I think you don't know what I mean when I say 'someone will write a parser', but please continue to believe these sorts of things, as it makes dealing with you easier.
Position, not suggestion. I believe Noaani's position has been clarified. Suggestions often take more scrutiny.
Position:
"Combat Trackers that don't track other people unless they want to be tracked are good/okay."
Suggestion:
"Ashes should make their own combat tracker for people/guilds and have it be opt-in instead of the alternative."
If I do parse it, I will parse for position, not suggestion, because unless every person who posted had a chance to talk to Noaani specifically about the suggestion, there would be no way to know their opinion on the suggestion itself.
It makes me have an interesting perception though.
If I have a personal combat log that tells me all the data, and I write the parser for that, have I violated ToS because of writing and activating it?
At what point does my Excel Spreadsheet become bad?
Obviously for a programmer, drawing the line is hard. People say 'do it by pen and paper or by excel sheet', but to me, if you say 'you can use a calculator' and 'you can use Excel', I can program now, so I have a 'Combat Tracker'.
What is it exactly that people want from me, then? What is it that I am not supposed to do? Is it that I'm only allowed to use a Tracker if I program it myself? What if my team writes it together? Can we all use it then?
Noaani: "There are actually currently less than a dozen posters that are against trackers if implemented in the manner I have discussed."
With
Azherae: "Literally page one of this gigantic post, taken in aggregate, favors Noaani's position."
The first page seems to be about 50/50. People who are fine with a personal combat log, but who do not want that info to be shown publicly vs people who want personal combat logs to be shown publicly to group or guild leaders...especilly if it's opt in.
And I don't see Noanni convincing people to change their opinions.
The funny thing about this is - you were all for the suggestion at one point. You even pointed a few things out that assisted in shaping someone the finer details of it.
It wasnt until Steven said he was against trackers that you decided tou were all of a sudden against the suggestion as well.
In fact, from memory, it was a comment you made that gave me the idea to add to the suggestion the limit trackers to working on those in your guild rather than giving players the option, as if the option is given to each player, group members will be required to share that data in order to join the group.
Switching that to guilds removed that issue that you pointed out.
I'll quote the final of four posts in the discussion I had with Ceepex so you can see for yourself.
When reasonable people come across a reasonable compromise, they tend to accept it. It is only unreasonable people that refuse.
Likewise, when reasonable people are faced with a point in a debate that renders their view as obviously incorrect, they change their position to be that of the now obviously correct position.
Some people do not do this, however.
You could also look at the brief interaction I had with akabear at the end of the last page, and top of this page. While I didnt convince them that trackers were the best thing ever, I did point out for them that they are likely to be of more use in Ashes than they thought would be the case based on their experience.
Whitedude31: personal combat log 0 | + 23 Likes
Damokles: Noanni 1 | + 7 Likes + 2 Likes +3 Likes
Wandering Mist: personal combat log 1 | + 38 Likes + 15 Likes + 15 Likes +2 Likes
Swaftworth: personal combat log 2 | + 26 Likes + 1 Like
Wololo: No combat log 1 | + 20 Likes
grisu: Noaani 2 | + 17 Likes +6 Likes + 4 Likes
Burnthefern: personal combat log 3 | +2 Likes + 1 Like
Azatoth: No combat log 2 | + 17 Likes +7 Likes
syl: No combat log 3 | + 9 Likes
StreetCornerPoet: No combat log 4 | +5 Likes
Insomnia: No combat log 0 | + 6 Likes
Magic Man: No combat log 5 | + 4 Likes
Shoklen: No combat log 0 | + 2 Likes
Roko: personal combat log 4 | + 4 Likes
14 unique posters
Count of 0 if the poster just goes with whatever the devs want but gives no personal opinion.
Agree with Noaani position: Total = 2 | + 39 Likes
Personal combat log only: Total = 4 | + 109 Likes
No combat log: Total = 5 | + 52 Likes
Seems like people on the first page overwhelming agree with Wandering Mist and Steven's position: personal combat log only.
Next most popular position is no combat at all.
Noanni's position of having the group leader or guild leader see other people's combat log is in the minority - any way you slice it - as far as I can tell.
On Page 1
It's 10:30 PM. And I parsed this right after 3 dance classes, so... I'm sure there sre some minor errors here, but... overall...
Keep in mind, the bulk of those ok with personal trackers are ok with guild based trackers. That is a very clear statement that the guild tracker suggestion has fairly widespread support.
And, no... I have always been against DPS meters - especially visible to the group leader and guild leader.
Ever since playing NWO in 2013.
Personal combat tracker can be OK. Even though I probably wouldn't use it much, if ever.
--- Dygz on Page 3
What I originally said is if Ashes is going to have DPS Meters I want them to provide more info than just DPS. I want them to give more detailed info that can help assess why someone has a low DPS. What other things were they doing to aid the group besides DPS? Numbers don't tell the whole story.
"So why should this one"... because it's their right to do so?
I've put 300 into the game myself. I'm glad you supported it for the Early Alpha. I wasn't going to do the Play Testing because I do think it takes a certain type of player to go in and do the 'work' kind of play, and what they didn't need was a bunch of people being casual in that process (which they would have got if they just opened it to everyone).
Again, they are not trying to be like the Current MMOs. The entire reason Ashes is being created is Steven's feeling (that many of us here share) that the current state of MMOs sucks. We don't want what 'many MMOs' have to offer, we want something different.
One of those differences is the idea of No Trackers. All I'm saying is give Intrepid the opportunity. How hard is it to just simply try it, without Trackers? To respect the intent.
Again, if you want Trackers... plenty of games that offer them. THAT is the issue here. I absolutely take issue with those that actively go against the intent of the Developer, because you have valid options to go play. This is meant to be different, and we should give it the chance to be what it's trying to be.
But hey, if it's as simple as "If they give me my money back, I'll go play something else" I hope that happens. Because I think your stance is about as selfish and toxic as one could possibly be. I literally believe if you are just going to undermine ToS or Community Guidelines, you don't belong here. And you openly say that's exactly what you are going to do. If it's a deal breaker, don't agree to the deal, don't sign the ToS, go play something that supports your idea.
I mean, this is true, but only really because the actual detailed suggestion of guild based trackers didnt happen for another dozen or so pages.
The discussion of trackers in relation to guilds that took place on page one was under a VERY different paradigm.