Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
You have already been proven wrong in my post and you are trying to change the topic because from the point I'm trying to make. Don't tell me to discuss something else when my point is already been made and what is what I'm talking about. I won't be arguing with you over random scenarios that have nothing to do what with i mentioned.
Third party trackers do not have any direct effect on gameplay.
Assistance is not a direct effect on gameplay as you could figure that out in time without assistance.
Stop trying to argue what I am not talking about in this current discussion.
Because i can't believe how rude you are and spend this much time on the forums and say insulting things / think insulting things towards devs. It is mind blowing with the constant pattern. You will redirect a conversation and change it only in order to try to insult.
The reality is as I stated a few posts above.
As I said, it was your comments that were suggesting you thought the developers were incompetent, not mine.
I know a good number of developers working at Intrepid. I've known a handful of them for years, and have gotten to know a few more somewhat more recently. I know how competent they are at their jobs.
It was you that made comments that left us all to either assume you thought that they were not able to do their job, or that you have no idea at all about the topic we are talking about. Fortunately, it turned out to be that you had no idea. You still seem to have no idea that content tuning is done based on how players progress on it.
As I have said, I am currently unsure what it even is you are talking about at this point.
You are arguing something about combat trackers not altering content to make it easier, which we agree on. But then you are ignoring the point that I am making in that content is tuned based on player progress.
It's almost as if you wish to argue that first point that trackers dont change content by themselves, and then slam the door shut on the discussion.
1. I am talking about logic you are warping a disccusion to fit a reality you want.
2. There is no WHERE in my comments that suggest that. That is you in your own mine thinking insults and trying to use other people in a thread to passive aggressively throw shade at developers. Its disgusting as hell both you throwing shade and trying to force words not said in a persons post to fill your own small ego.
This is an issue with your negative mind set and you warping a disccusion in a different direction you have been told multiple times to stop changing it.
3. I am not talking about how information can adjust balance stop bringing that up that is a different discussion and not one i even brought u here. You are too busy trying to put words in my mouth than to listen to the words I have spoken.
NOW read and stop changing the topic.
Because you are so damn hard headed i will repeat again. The third party trackers you want, or being able to read peoples dmg / DPS meters. HAS NO direct effect on the gameplay in overcoming a challenge. Seeing you hit for 800 dmg has no effect on gameplay seeing the number or not or any other information. You will still need to do the same things to beat the content.
Honestly, I dont spend a whole lot of time on this. Since it's a subject I am quite well versed in (source: this thread), my thoughts on it are already fairly well organized.
So, your 3 points here plus your final paragraph as a fourth.
1, you kind of aren't talking logic. At this point, I dont even know what your posts are.
2, yeah, you clarified that what I was unsure of as being you thinking Intrepid were incompetent or you not knowing what you were talking about was simply you not knowing what you were talking about.
It's cool, we both think Intrepid developers are competent. I said that a few posts ago.
3, again, we agree that information doesnt adjust content balance. That isnt at all what I have said. I said competent developers (such as those at Intrepid) adjust content balance.
4, if you do not believe combat trackers provide those using them with an advantage, care to explain:
I mean, in the above quote you seem to be saying a combat tracker allows you to get through content faster, yet in the post I am replying to, you seem to be suggesting that a combat tracker would not do this.
This is why I am confused. This is why I have no idea what your point is any more. Are you saying that a combat tracker does not make content any easier as in your most recent post, or are you saying it does make content easier as in the quote above?
Before you answer, I'll reiterate the consequences of each. If you do not believe that trackers make content easier (or makes it easier for players to get through content), as per the post I am replying to, then you have no reason to even discuss trackers in relation to content. Believing this means you believe they have no impact, and thus you have no reason to use them or to care if someone else uses them.
On the other hand, if you assume that combat trackers do make content easier (or makes it easier for players to get through content), and you agree that Intrepids developers are competent (as we have worked out we both agree on), then that means Intrepids developers will tune the content in the game based on the success of players using combat trackers.
This is because in the real world, developers tune content based on how players react to said content, and also in the real world, top end guilds will use combat trackers.
The only other argument I can see that you have left - other than the two above - is for you to say you are living in your own world.
Now, if none of the above is accurate, I ask you again to reiterate what the hell it is you are trying to say here.
Nah, I've never been able to repost a quote of you contradicting yourself.
You wanted 'veil' here. (I just assume that since you're similar to my ESL EU teammate you also want to know these, lmk if you don't).
Though I don't even know how I got "vale" considering I've never even used that form of "valley". Guess my brain still hasn't recovered after a week of being sick
I think there is a hidden 3rd option: The developers tune the content to the average player running said content. To me this makes the most sense from a user experience perspective. Top end guilds will for sure still use trackers, but will that be the majority of the players of that content?
With that said, isn't there a chance the data being acted upon is from players NOT using trackers? (meaning, they are tuning the game to non-tracker players)
Games do this.
BDO might be an example.
It means that their field Bosses can be killed before you can switch server if your SSD isn't fast, and that most semiserious players could solo them if they really felt like it in softcap gear.
Their World bosses can be dogpiled and defeated in 30 seconds when the server's serious players feel like doing that.
The response for years has generally been to just not even bother making new ones, because the top end players who actually want content will steamroll anything that the average player can stand up to.
Perhaps that's not their reason though, they're weird.
We need to assume that top end content will be tuned based on the best attempts players have on it in the days after it is released (or otherwise made available).
Again none of this holds true for content other than top end.
You are the one not talking logic and making up a false reality to avoid answer and divert the entire conversation.
STOP talking about advantage with combat tracker that is not the discussion point I'm making
You are only confusing yourself by ignoring my point I'm making and warping the discussion and trying to put words in my mouth.
I'm going to have to make this real simple so you can understand and not be able to run away from the point.
What is it that trackers give the player, give me a answer to that question (not a paragraph of detail).
Easier access to data.
Nothing more, nothing less.
TERA was like this, worked out well.
Reactive skills and rotations have no correlation to combat trackers.
There was a TERA pluggin for ACT.
So simply information as I have been saying in a easier way to get it. But it is not the only excusive way to get that information. Meaning you can gain the information through other ways.
If you can get that information through other ways and the only thing you gain is information easier, it means the gameplay doesn't change be it the content being easier or more difficult.
So with or without the tools gameplay can remain at the same difficulty if desired.
I agree with this but its for different reasons. It makes people start to value other skills and pushes you away from perfect dmg numbers and value peoples skill in however that forms.
In the same way you asked for a simple answer to your question above, and I gave you that answer, I now want the same from you - a simple question that I am asking for an answer of no more than 12 words.
If you dont think combat trackers give players an advantage, why are you so against them?
10 word answer below
I've always been consistent on saying they give an advantage.
This isn't what my post was about, its about the difficulty of content still exist without combat trackers as they only give information. Which is a counter to saying you can't have hard content without trackers meaning PvE player can enjoy it.
Right, so, we are getting close to being on the same page here.
I'm going to try and keep this reply short still, but it is a slightly more involved thing.
Intrepid have said they want less than 10% of players able to defeat top end content. This means they have to do that final tuning.
This means your concept of them only doing that tuning *if desired* is a non-factor. They have already stated how hard they want top end content, and so tuning needs to be done to achieve that goal - in other words the desire to do that final tuning has already been stated.
This means any discussion that they could not do that tuning is being unrealistic, and as I have said, I am keeping this discussion based in reality.
Since they cant just ignore guilds using trackers when doing that final tuning, this means it has to be done including said guilds. As such, top end content (and only top end content) has to be tuned based on the progress made by guilds using trackers.
There really isnt any other way to do it.
And they weren’t necessity in TERA. Because the combat was reactive.
The notion of reactive combat has no bearing at all on the usefulness of a combat tracker.
In any game system (combat or otherwise) in which players have two or more options, a combat tracker is of use.
No one needed a combat tracker for TERA. Could you use them? Sure.
You just reacted accordingly.
So, I never played TERA, my understanding of tracker use in that game is second hand (though from someone I trust without question).
Are you suggesting above that in your experience, players never had any actual viable decisions to make in combat in that game?