Respectfully can you stop staying stupid and intrepid develops in the same sentence, its highly disrespectful. Keep your own thoughts to yourself. What they do I trust the game they make at the end, if you want to be negative / childish don't use me in any post with your insult towards them.
I mean, I've been asking you the last few posts whether you think Intrepid develoeprs are stupid, or just have no idea what you are talking about.
If you agree with me that the develoeprs at Intrepid are indeed not stupid, then that's great, we can assume the alternative and move on.
You literarily will not read what I am saying third party has no direct effect on what happens in the gameplay that is a fact. You do not gain more gear suddenly, your skills do not suddenly get different effects. The entire gameplay plays the same (unless we are talking about hacks obviously).
Do not inject people use third party anyway (even if it is against TOS) to try to skew the point I'm trying to make because you simply can't accept reality and are trying to skate around to make yourself seem right.
If I'm talking about people using things against TOS that will be another discussion and not what I'm talking about here so please don't bring that up as a point.
If you have nothing to say on my point or have a desire to change it, you are simply just trying to avoid answer properly and making things up.
Now on to this part.
No where in this thread has anyone (yourself included) said that a combat tracker means players suddenly gain more gear. I literally have no idea where this point you are talking about here came from (I know you are saying it doesn't happen, I just have no idea *why* you are saying it doesn't happen).
What I have said is as per the previous post. To reiterate;
For top end content, developers create content, test it for bugs on the test server, release to the live server, then tune based on player progress in order to achieve the desired difficulty.
Now, It is that last step that you seem to either not be aware of, or assumed Intrepid wouldn't or couldn't do (you have since clarified that you believe Intrepid are competent, meaning we can now simply assume you were unaware of this step).
What this means is that if top end guilds are using a combat tracker, then that content will be tuned based on progress of guilds using combat trackers - regardless of whether Intrepid take that in to account or not.
Now, the above is my point here, and you seem to be disagreeing with it. I am not sure what aspect of this you are disagreeing with, as you keep going off on random tangents that make no sense (such as the above tangent about getting more gear).
So please, let me know which of the above basic set of objective facts it is you disagree with so we can continue this discussion.
My assumption is that you want the discussion to assume top end guilds won't be using a tracker. The issue there is that we can't really talk about combat tracker use and it's impact on the games content if we are discussing things on the assumption that no one is using combat trackers. I have to assume you can see how pointless such a discussion would be - the answer would obviously be that if no one is using a combat tracker, combat trackers will not have any impact.
However, since top end guilds will be using trackers, it makes no sense at all to assume that top end guilds would not be using them. I mean, you accused me above of not being able to accept reality, but the reality is that people will be using trackers, and that will not be against the ToS (the ToS can not prevent me doing things on a computer that the game client is not on, and it is dead easy to run a combat tracker on a second computer, a smartphone or even just a raspberry pi).
So, do we want this discussion to be about the real world where trackers are being used, developers are tuning content based on player progress and thus based on tracker use, or do you want this discussion to accommodate some factitious world that you wish to inhabit?
Ya you are arguing thin air and running in circles to keep boosting thread..... OBVIOUSLY using a third party or tracker doesn't give you more gear. When you use a a tracker it does not effect the content in the game why can you not understand this stop trying to arguing other facts.
ALL YOU GET IS INFORMATION, it does NOT make combat harder, it does not make combat easier, it does not change content in the game.
You are literarily making things up to argue I'm not talking about people breaking TOS stop talking about that in my post. Stop talking about that and also saying you suddenly can view dmg of your team when you aren't given any of that information.
Again if you continue to argue on this tos / rule breaking where they said they are not allowing it you are wasting both our time.
Rather than throwing a tantrum like this, why not instead form an argument against what I am actually talking about?
I have explained to you how things actually are, how it works in the real world. I am not arguing "what if's", nor am I arguing scenarios with some specific set of conditions. I am simply stating how things are.
If you cant form a debate against that, why are you continuing to argue?
You have repeatedly tried to make the argument that a combat tracker does not alter the content. This is something we agree on - and I have never said it does. What I have said is the developers tune content based on player progress on content. If players progress faster than the developers thought, they will tune that content to be harder.
From that point, I actually cant tell if you are trying to suggest that people using combat trackers wont progress on that content faster or not. It is at this point that your argument is seeming to fail to be coherent.
If you are arguing that combat trackers will not allow guilds to progress faster on this content, I'm fairly sure I can find quotes of you saying you dont like combat trackers because it allows players to.progress through content faster, which would lead us to a bit of an impasse.
If what you are trying to say to my above point about Intrepid tuning content is that we shouldnt assume people are using combat trackers, cool, you go off and assume that. If you are assuming no one will use a combat tracker, you have no reason to be posting in this thread.
If you are assuming something else, which with how incoherent your points are right now may indeed be the case, then I'm happy to discuss what ever it is.
The thing is, any point you may have had has been completely lost in your actual rambling and tantrums of your last few posts.
Also, yes, the combat tracker I have right now will allow me to see the damage output of those in my raid, as well as their healing in and out, damage taken etc. It will give me as much information on them as it gives on me.
Note; as I said, that is the tracker for Ashes I have now.
You have already been proven wrong in my post and you are trying to change the topic because from the point I'm trying to make. Don't tell me to discuss something else when my point is already been made and what is what I'm talking about. I won't be arguing with you over random scenarios that have nothing to do what with i mentioned.
Third party trackers do not have any direct effect on gameplay.
Assistance is not a direct effect on gameplay as you could figure that out in time without assistance.
Stop trying to argue what I am not talking about in this current discussion.
Rather than throwing a tantrum like this, why not instead form an argument against what I am actually talking about?
Because i can't believe how rude you are and spend this much time on the forums and say insulting things / think insulting things towards devs. It is mind blowing with the constant pattern. You will redirect a conversation and change it only in order to try to insult.
I won't be arguing with you over random scenarios that have nothing to do what with i mentioned.
As I have said, I am only arguing reality in this thread.
The reality is as I stated a few posts above.
Because i can't believe how rude you are and spend this much time on the forums and say insulting things / think insulting things towards devs
As I said, it was your comments that were suggesting you thought the developers were incompetent, not mine.
I know a good number of developers working at Intrepid. I've known a handful of them for years, and have gotten to know a few more somewhat more recently. I know how competent they are at their jobs.
It was you that made comments that left us all to either assume you thought that they were not able to do their job, or that you have no idea at all about the topic we are talking about. Fortunately, it turned out to be that you had no idea. You still seem to have no idea that content tuning is done based on how players progress on it.
Stop trying to argue what I am not talking about in this current discussion.
As I have said, I am currently unsure what it even is you are talking about at this point.
You are arguing something about combat trackers not altering content to make it easier, which we agree on. But then you are ignoring the point that I am making in that content is tuned based on player progress.
It's almost as if you wish to argue that first point that trackers dont change content by themselves, and then slam the door shut on the discussion.
I won't be arguing with you over random scenarios that have nothing to do what with i mentioned.
As I have said, I am only arguing reality in this thread.
The reality is as I stated a few posts above.
Because i can't believe how rude you are and spend this much time on the forums and say insulting things / think insulting things towards devs
As I said, it was your comments that were suggesting you thought the developers were incompetent, not mine.
I know a good number of developers working at Intrepid. I've known a handful of them for years, and have gotten to know a few more somewhat more recently. I know how competent they are at their jobs.
It was you that made comments that left us all to either assume you thought that they were not able to do their job, or that you have no idea at all about the topic we are talking about. Fortunately, it turned out to be that you had no idea. You still seem to have no idea that content tuning is done based on how players progress on it.
Stop trying to argue what I am not talking about in this current discussion.
As I have said, I am currently unsure what it even is you are talking about at this point.
You are arguing something about combat trackers not altering content to make it easier, which we agree on. But then you are ignoring the point that I am making in that content is tuned based on player progress.
It's almost as if you wish to argue that first point that trackers dont change content by themselves, and then slam the door shut on the discussion.
1. I am talking about logic you are warping a disccusion to fit a reality you want.
2. There is no WHERE in my comments that suggest that. That is you in your own mine thinking insults and trying to use other people in a thread to passive aggressively throw shade at developers. Its disgusting as hell both you throwing shade and trying to force words not said in a persons post to fill your own small ego.
This is an issue with your negative mind set and you warping a disccusion in a different direction you have been told multiple times to stop changing it.
3. I am not talking about how information can adjust balance stop bringing that up that is a different discussion and not one i even brought u here. You are too busy trying to put words in my mouth than to listen to the words I have spoken.
NOW read and stop changing the topic.
Because you are so damn hard headed i will repeat again. The third party trackers you want, or being able to read peoples dmg / DPS meters. HAS NO direct effect on the gameplay in overcoming a challenge. Seeing you hit for 800 dmg has no effect on gameplay seeing the number or not or any other information. You will still need to do the same things to beat the content.
The only thing I can remember is the fact Noaani can debate all day (when time doesn't matter lol).
Honestly, I dont spend a whole lot of time on this. Since it's a subject I am quite well versed in (source: this thread), my thoughts on it are already fairly well organized.
I won't be arguing with you over random scenarios that have nothing to do what with i mentioned.
As I have said, I am only arguing reality in this thread.
The reality is as I stated a few posts above.
Because i can't believe how rude you are and spend this much time on the forums and say insulting things / think insulting things towards devs
As I said, it was your comments that were suggesting you thought the developers were incompetent, not mine.
I know a good number of developers working at Intrepid. I've known a handful of them for years, and have gotten to know a few more somewhat more recently. I know how competent they are at their jobs.
It was you that made comments that left us all to either assume you thought that they were not able to do their job, or that you have no idea at all about the topic we are talking about. Fortunately, it turned out to be that you had no idea. You still seem to have no idea that content tuning is done based on how players progress on it.
Stop trying to argue what I am not talking about in this current discussion.
As I have said, I am currently unsure what it even is you are talking about at this point.
You are arguing something about combat trackers not altering content to make it easier, which we agree on. But then you are ignoring the point that I am making in that content is tuned based on player progress.
It's almost as if you wish to argue that first point that trackers dont change content by themselves, and then slam the door shut on the discussion.
1. I am talking about logic you are warping a disccusion to fit a reality you want.
2. There is no WHERE in my comments that suggest that. That is you in your own mine thinking insults and trying to use other people in a thread to passive aggressively throw shade at developers. Its disgusting as hell both you throwing shade and trying to force words not said in a persons post to fill your own small ego.
This is an issue with your negative mind set and you warping a disccusion in a different direction you have been told multiple times to stop changing it.
3. I am not talking about how information can adjust balance stop bringing that up that is a different discussion and not one i even brought u here. You are too busy trying to put words in my mouth than to listen to the words I have spoken.
NOW read and stop changing the topic.
Because you are so damn hard headed i will repeat again. The third party trackers you want, or being able to read peoples dmg / DPS meters. HAS NO direct effect on the gameplay in overcoming a challenge. Seeing you hit for 800 dmg has no effect on gameplay seeing the number or not or any other information. You will still need to do the same things to beat the content.
So, your 3 points here plus your final paragraph as a fourth.
1, you kind of aren't talking logic. At this point, I dont even know what your posts are.
2, yeah, you clarified that what I was unsure of as being you thinking Intrepid were incompetent or you not knowing what you were talking about was simply you not knowing what you were talking about.
It's cool, we both think Intrepid developers are competent. I said that a few posts ago.
3, again, we agree that information doesnt adjust content balance. That isnt at all what I have said. I said competent developers (such as those at Intrepid) adjust content balance.
4, if you do not believe combat trackers provide those using them with an advantage, care to explain:
The only thing the tool does is it make easier by giving you more information in a easier way so you know better how to race through content without doing the leg work yourself.
I mean, in the above quote you seem to be saying a combat tracker allows you to get through content faster, yet in the post I am replying to, you seem to be suggesting that a combat tracker would not do this.
This is why I am confused. This is why I have no idea what your point is any more. Are you saying that a combat tracker does not make content any easier as in your most recent post, or are you saying it does make content easier as in the quote above?
Before you answer, I'll reiterate the consequences of each. If you do not believe that trackers make content easier (or makes it easier for players to get through content), as per the post I am replying to, then you have no reason to even discuss trackers in relation to content. Believing this means you believe they have no impact, and thus you have no reason to use them or to care if someone else uses them.
On the other hand, if you assume that combat trackers do make content easier (or makes it easier for players to get through content), and you agree that Intrepids developers are competent (as we have worked out we both agree on), then that means Intrepids developers will tune the content in the game based on the success of players using combat trackers.
This is because in the real world, developers tune content based on how players react to said content, and also in the real world, top end guilds will use combat trackers.
The only other argument I can see that you have left - other than the two above - is for you to say you are living in your own world.
Now, if none of the above is accurate, I ask you again to reiterate what the hell it is you are trying to say here.
Nah, I've never been able to repost a quote of you contradicting yourself.
That means I still hide it well then cause I've got a ton of contradictions, but I veil them behind overcomplications of simple concepts. Soon enough they'll pop up
Nah, I've never been able to repost a quote of you contradicting yourself.
That means I still hide it well then cause I've got a ton of contradictions, but I vale them behind overcomplications of simple concepts. Soon enough they'll pop up
You wanted 'veil' here. (I just assume that since you're similar to my ESL EU teammate you also want to know these, lmk if you don't).
You wanted 'veil' here. (I just assume that since you're similar to my ESL EU teammate you also want to know these, lmk if you don't).
Yes I did. I even fucking doubted myself, but still forgot the correct one. Damn english language for its countless words that all sound the same, but are written in ten different ways and mean 20 different things.
Though I don't even know how I got "vale" considering I've never even used that form of "valley". Guess my brain still hasn't recovered after a week of being sick
This is because in the real world, developers tune content based on how players react to said content, and also in the real world, top end guilds will use combat trackers.
The only other argument I can see that you have left - other than the two above - is for you to say you are living in your own world.
I think there is a hidden 3rd option: The developers tune the content to the average player running said content. To me this makes the most sense from a user experience perspective. Top end guilds will for sure still use trackers, but will that be the majority of the players of that content?
With that said, isn't there a chance the data being acted upon is from players NOT using trackers? (meaning, they are tuning the game to non-tracker players)
This is because in the real world, developers tune content based on how players react to said content, and also in the real world, top end guilds will use combat trackers.
The only other argument I can see that you have left - other than the two above - is for you to say you are living in your own world.
I think there is a hidden 3rd option: The developers tune the content to the average player running said content. To me this makes the most sense from a user experience perspective. Top end guilds will for sure still use trackers, but will that be the majority of the players of that content?
With that said, isn't there a chance the data being acted upon is from players NOT using trackers? (meaning, they are tuning the game to non-tracker players)
Games do this.
BDO might be an example.
It means that their field Bosses can be killed before you can switch server if your SSD isn't fast, and that most semiserious players could solo them if they really felt like it in softcap gear.
Their World bosses can be dogpiled and defeated in 30 seconds when the server's serious players feel like doing that.
The response for years has generally been to just not even bother making new ones, because the top end players who actually want content will steamroll anything that the average player can stand up to.
Perhaps that's not their reason though, they're weird.
This is because in the real world, developers tune content based on how players react to said content, and also in the real world, top end guilds will use combat trackers.
The only other argument I can see that you have left - other than the two above - is for you to say you are living in your own world.
I think there is a hidden 3rd option: The developers tune the content to the average player running said content. To me this makes the most sense from a user experience perspective. Top end guilds will for sure still use trackers, but will that be the majority of the players of that content?
Tuning content to the average user of that content is valid for mid tier content. When you have content that you don't want everyone to defeat, you have to tune it so that not everyone can defeat it.
With that said, isn't there a chance the data being acted upon is from players NOT using trackers?
In reality, not really.
We need to assume that top end content will be tuned based on the best attempts players have on it in the days after it is released (or otherwise made available).
Again none of this holds true for content other than top end.
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HinotoriMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I mean really, this is how it should be. I've held off writing about this subject, but I have some thoughts on it. Sike jk, I'm just here to say hi to the archaeologists that dig this thread up one day and get the plague and die.
I won't be arguing with you over random scenarios that have nothing to do what with i mentioned.
As I have said, I am only arguing reality in this thread.
The reality is as I stated a few posts above.
Because i can't believe how rude you are and spend this much time on the forums and say insulting things / think insulting things towards devs
As I said, it was your comments that were suggesting you thought the developers were incompetent, not mine.
I know a good number of developers working at Intrepid. I've known a handful of them for years, and have gotten to know a few more somewhat more recently. I know how competent they are at their jobs.
It was you that made comments that left us all to either assume you thought that they were not able to do their job, or that you have no idea at all about the topic we are talking about. Fortunately, it turned out to be that you had no idea. You still seem to have no idea that content tuning is done based on how players progress on it.
Stop trying to argue what I am not talking about in this current discussion.
As I have said, I am currently unsure what it even is you are talking about at this point.
You are arguing something about combat trackers not altering content to make it easier, which we agree on. But then you are ignoring the point that I am making in that content is tuned based on player progress.
It's almost as if you wish to argue that first point that trackers dont change content by themselves, and then slam the door shut on the discussion.
1. I am talking about logic you are warping a disccusion to fit a reality you want.
2. There is no WHERE in my comments that suggest that. That is you in your own mine thinking insults and trying to use other people in a thread to passive aggressively throw shade at developers. Its disgusting as hell both you throwing shade and trying to force words not said in a persons post to fill your own small ego.
This is an issue with your negative mind set and you warping a disccusion in a different direction you have been told multiple times to stop changing it.
3. I am not talking about how information can adjust balance stop bringing that up that is a different discussion and not one i even brought u here. You are too busy trying to put words in my mouth than to listen to the words I have spoken.
NOW read and stop changing the topic.
Because you are so damn hard headed i will repeat again. The third party trackers you want, or being able to read peoples dmg / DPS meters. HAS NO direct effect on the gameplay in overcoming a challenge. Seeing you hit for 800 dmg has no effect on gameplay seeing the number or not or any other information. You will still need to do the same things to beat the content.
So, your 3 points here plus your final paragraph as a fourth.
1, you kind of aren't talking logic. At this point, I dont even know what your posts are.
2, yeah, you clarified that what I was unsure of as being you thinking Intrepid were incompetent or you not knowing what you were talking about was simply you not knowing what you were talking about.
It's cool, we both think Intrepid developers are competent. I said that a few posts ago.
3, again, we agree that information doesnt adjust content balance. That isnt at all what I have said. I said competent developers (such as those at Intrepid) adjust content balance.
4, if you do not believe combat trackers provide those using them with an advantage, care to explain:
The only thing the tool does is it make easier by giving you more information in a easier way so you know better how to race through content without doing the leg work yourself.
I mean, in the above quote you seem to be saying a combat tracker allows you to get through content faster, yet in the post I am replying to, you seem to be suggesting that a combat tracker would not do this.
This is why I am confused. This is why I have no idea what your point is any more. Are you saying that a combat tracker does not make content any easier as in your most recent post, or are you saying it does make content easier as in the quote above?
Before you answer, I'll reiterate the consequences of each. If you do not believe that trackers make content easier (or makes it easier for players to get through content), as per the post I am replying to, then you have no reason to even discuss trackers in relation to content. Believing this means you believe they have no impact, and thus you have no reason to use them or to care if someone else uses them.
On the other hand, if you assume that combat trackers do make content easier (or makes it easier for players to get through content), and you agree that Intrepids developers are competent (as we have worked out we both agree on), then that means Intrepids developers will tune the content in the game based on the success of players using combat trackers.
This is because in the real world, developers tune content based on how players react to said content, and also in the real world, top end guilds will use combat trackers.
The only other argument I can see that you have left - other than the two above - is for you to say you are living in your own world.
Now, if none of the above is accurate, I ask you again to reiterate what the hell it is you are trying to say here.
You are the one not talking logic and making up a false reality to avoid answer and divert the entire conversation.
STOP talking about advantage with combat tracker that is not the discussion point I'm making
You are only confusing yourself by ignoring my point I'm making and warping the discussion and trying to put words in my mouth.
I'm going to have to make this real simple so you can understand and not be able to run away from the point.
What is it that trackers give the player, give me a answer to that question (not a paragraph of detail).
What is it that trackers give the player, give me a answer to that question (not a paragraph of detail).
Easier access to data.
Nothing more, nothing less.
So simply information as I have been saying in a easier way to get it. But it is not the only excusive way to get that information. Meaning you can gain the information through other ways.
If you can get that information through other ways and the only thing you gain is information easier, it means the gameplay doesn't change be it the content being easier or more difficult.
So with or without the tools gameplay can remain at the same difficulty if desired.
Reactive combat would fix the DPS meter debacle. Instead of rotations we get the proper skill in the proper moment.
TERA was like this, worked out well.
I agree with this but its for different reasons. It makes people start to value other skills and pushes you away from perfect dmg numbers and value peoples skill in however that forms.
What is it that trackers give the player, give me a answer to that question (not a paragraph of detail).
Easier access to data.
Nothing more, nothing less.
So simply information as I have been saying in a easier way to get it. But it is not the only excusive way to get that information. Meaning you can gain the information through other ways.
If you can get that information through other ways and the only thing you gain is information easier, it means the gameplay doesn't change be it the content being easier or more difficult.
So with or without the tools gameplay can remain at the same difficulty if desired.
In the same way you asked for a simple answer to your question above, and I gave you that answer, I now want the same from you - a simple question that I am asking for an answer of no more than 12 words.
If you dont think combat trackers give players an advantage, why are you so against them?
What is it that trackers give the player, give me a answer to that question (not a paragraph of detail).
Easier access to data.
Nothing more, nothing less.
So simply information as I have been saying in a easier way to get it. But it is not the only excusive way to get that information. Meaning you can gain the information through other ways.
If you can get that information through other ways and the only thing you gain is information easier, it means the gameplay doesn't change be it the content being easier or more difficult.
So with or without the tools gameplay can remain at the same difficulty if desired.
In the same way you asked for a simple answer to your question above, and I gave you that answer, I now want the same from you - a simple question that I am asking for an answer of no more than 12 words.
If you dont think combat trackers give players an advantage, why are you so against them?
10 word answer below I've always been consistent on saying they give an advantage.
This isn't what my post was about, its about the difficulty of content still exist without combat trackers as they only give information. Which is a counter to saying you can't have hard content without trackers meaning PvE player can enjoy it.
What is it that trackers give the player, give me a answer to that question (not a paragraph of detail).
Easier access to data.
Nothing more, nothing less.
So simply information as I have been saying in a easier way to get it. But it is not the only excusive way to get that information. Meaning you can gain the information through other ways.
If you can get that information through other ways and the only thing you gain is information easier, it means the gameplay doesn't change be it the content being easier or more difficult.
So with or without the tools gameplay can remain at the same difficulty if desired.
In the same way you asked for a simple answer to your question above, and I gave you that answer, I now want the same from you - a simple question that I am asking for an answer of no more than 12 words.
If you dont think combat trackers give players an advantage, why are you so against them?
10 word answer below I've always been consistent on saying they give an advantage.
This isn't what my post was about, its about the difficulty of content still exist without combat trackers as they only give information. Which is a counter to saying you can't have hard content without trackers meaning PvE player can enjoy it.
Right, so, we are getting close to being on the same page here.
I'm going to try and keep this reply short still, but it is a slightly more involved thing.
Intrepid have said they want less than 10% of players able to defeat top end content. This means they have to do that final tuning.
This means your concept of them only doing that tuning *if desired* is a non-factor. They have already stated how hard they want top end content, and so tuning needs to be done to achieve that goal - in other words the desire to do that final tuning has already been stated.
This means any discussion that they could not do that tuning is being unrealistic, and as I have said, I am keeping this discussion based in reality.
Since they cant just ignore guilds using trackers when doing that final tuning, this means it has to be done including said guilds. As such, top end content (and only top end content) has to be tuned based on the progress made by guilds using trackers.
Comments
You have already been proven wrong in my post and you are trying to change the topic because from the point I'm trying to make. Don't tell me to discuss something else when my point is already been made and what is what I'm talking about. I won't be arguing with you over random scenarios that have nothing to do what with i mentioned.
Third party trackers do not have any direct effect on gameplay.
Assistance is not a direct effect on gameplay as you could figure that out in time without assistance.
Stop trying to argue what I am not talking about in this current discussion.
Because i can't believe how rude you are and spend this much time on the forums and say insulting things / think insulting things towards devs. It is mind blowing with the constant pattern. You will redirect a conversation and change it only in order to try to insult.
The reality is as I stated a few posts above.
As I said, it was your comments that were suggesting you thought the developers were incompetent, not mine.
I know a good number of developers working at Intrepid. I've known a handful of them for years, and have gotten to know a few more somewhat more recently. I know how competent they are at their jobs.
It was you that made comments that left us all to either assume you thought that they were not able to do their job, or that you have no idea at all about the topic we are talking about. Fortunately, it turned out to be that you had no idea. You still seem to have no idea that content tuning is done based on how players progress on it.
As I have said, I am currently unsure what it even is you are talking about at this point.
You are arguing something about combat trackers not altering content to make it easier, which we agree on. But then you are ignoring the point that I am making in that content is tuned based on player progress.
It's almost as if you wish to argue that first point that trackers dont change content by themselves, and then slam the door shut on the discussion.
1. I am talking about logic you are warping a disccusion to fit a reality you want.
2. There is no WHERE in my comments that suggest that. That is you in your own mine thinking insults and trying to use other people in a thread to passive aggressively throw shade at developers. Its disgusting as hell both you throwing shade and trying to force words not said in a persons post to fill your own small ego.
This is an issue with your negative mind set and you warping a disccusion in a different direction you have been told multiple times to stop changing it.
3. I am not talking about how information can adjust balance stop bringing that up that is a different discussion and not one i even brought u here. You are too busy trying to put words in my mouth than to listen to the words I have spoken.
NOW read and stop changing the topic.
Because you are so damn hard headed i will repeat again. The third party trackers you want, or being able to read peoples dmg / DPS meters. HAS NO direct effect on the gameplay in overcoming a challenge. Seeing you hit for 800 dmg has no effect on gameplay seeing the number or not or any other information. You will still need to do the same things to beat the content.
Honestly, I dont spend a whole lot of time on this. Since it's a subject I am quite well versed in (source: this thread), my thoughts on it are already fairly well organized.
So, your 3 points here plus your final paragraph as a fourth.
1, you kind of aren't talking logic. At this point, I dont even know what your posts are.
2, yeah, you clarified that what I was unsure of as being you thinking Intrepid were incompetent or you not knowing what you were talking about was simply you not knowing what you were talking about.
It's cool, we both think Intrepid developers are competent. I said that a few posts ago.
3, again, we agree that information doesnt adjust content balance. That isnt at all what I have said. I said competent developers (such as those at Intrepid) adjust content balance.
4, if you do not believe combat trackers provide those using them with an advantage, care to explain:
I mean, in the above quote you seem to be saying a combat tracker allows you to get through content faster, yet in the post I am replying to, you seem to be suggesting that a combat tracker would not do this.
This is why I am confused. This is why I have no idea what your point is any more. Are you saying that a combat tracker does not make content any easier as in your most recent post, or are you saying it does make content easier as in the quote above?
Before you answer, I'll reiterate the consequences of each. If you do not believe that trackers make content easier (or makes it easier for players to get through content), as per the post I am replying to, then you have no reason to even discuss trackers in relation to content. Believing this means you believe they have no impact, and thus you have no reason to use them or to care if someone else uses them.
On the other hand, if you assume that combat trackers do make content easier (or makes it easier for players to get through content), and you agree that Intrepids developers are competent (as we have worked out we both agree on), then that means Intrepids developers will tune the content in the game based on the success of players using combat trackers.
This is because in the real world, developers tune content based on how players react to said content, and also in the real world, top end guilds will use combat trackers.
The only other argument I can see that you have left - other than the two above - is for you to say you are living in your own world.
Now, if none of the above is accurate, I ask you again to reiterate what the hell it is you are trying to say here.
Nah, I've never been able to repost a quote of you contradicting yourself.
You wanted 'veil' here. (I just assume that since you're similar to my ESL EU teammate you also want to know these, lmk if you don't).
Though I don't even know how I got "vale" considering I've never even used that form of "valley". Guess my brain still hasn't recovered after a week of being sick
I think there is a hidden 3rd option: The developers tune the content to the average player running said content. To me this makes the most sense from a user experience perspective. Top end guilds will for sure still use trackers, but will that be the majority of the players of that content?
With that said, isn't there a chance the data being acted upon is from players NOT using trackers? (meaning, they are tuning the game to non-tracker players)
Games do this.
BDO might be an example.
It means that their field Bosses can be killed before you can switch server if your SSD isn't fast, and that most semiserious players could solo them if they really felt like it in softcap gear.
Their World bosses can be dogpiled and defeated in 30 seconds when the server's serious players feel like doing that.
The response for years has generally been to just not even bother making new ones, because the top end players who actually want content will steamroll anything that the average player can stand up to.
Perhaps that's not their reason though, they're weird.
We need to assume that top end content will be tuned based on the best attempts players have on it in the days after it is released (or otherwise made available).
Again none of this holds true for content other than top end.
You are the one not talking logic and making up a false reality to avoid answer and divert the entire conversation.
STOP talking about advantage with combat tracker that is not the discussion point I'm making
You are only confusing yourself by ignoring my point I'm making and warping the discussion and trying to put words in my mouth.
I'm going to have to make this real simple so you can understand and not be able to run away from the point.
What is it that trackers give the player, give me a answer to that question (not a paragraph of detail).
Easier access to data.
Nothing more, nothing less.
TERA was like this, worked out well.
Reactive skills and rotations have no correlation to combat trackers.
There was a TERA pluggin for ACT.
So simply information as I have been saying in a easier way to get it. But it is not the only excusive way to get that information. Meaning you can gain the information through other ways.
If you can get that information through other ways and the only thing you gain is information easier, it means the gameplay doesn't change be it the content being easier or more difficult.
So with or without the tools gameplay can remain at the same difficulty if desired.
I agree with this but its for different reasons. It makes people start to value other skills and pushes you away from perfect dmg numbers and value peoples skill in however that forms.
In the same way you asked for a simple answer to your question above, and I gave you that answer, I now want the same from you - a simple question that I am asking for an answer of no more than 12 words.
If you dont think combat trackers give players an advantage, why are you so against them?
10 word answer below
I've always been consistent on saying they give an advantage.
This isn't what my post was about, its about the difficulty of content still exist without combat trackers as they only give information. Which is a counter to saying you can't have hard content without trackers meaning PvE player can enjoy it.
Right, so, we are getting close to being on the same page here.
I'm going to try and keep this reply short still, but it is a slightly more involved thing.
Intrepid have said they want less than 10% of players able to defeat top end content. This means they have to do that final tuning.
This means your concept of them only doing that tuning *if desired* is a non-factor. They have already stated how hard they want top end content, and so tuning needs to be done to achieve that goal - in other words the desire to do that final tuning has already been stated.
This means any discussion that they could not do that tuning is being unrealistic, and as I have said, I am keeping this discussion based in reality.
Since they cant just ignore guilds using trackers when doing that final tuning, this means it has to be done including said guilds. As such, top end content (and only top end content) has to be tuned based on the progress made by guilds using trackers.
There really isnt any other way to do it.
And they weren’t necessity in TERA. Because the combat was reactive.
The notion of reactive combat has no bearing at all on the usefulness of a combat tracker.
In any game system (combat or otherwise) in which players have two or more options, a combat tracker is of use.
No one needed a combat tracker for TERA. Could you use them? Sure.
You just reacted accordingly.