DPS Meter Megathread

Noaani wrote: »

Honestly, my suggestion would be to download it, find a game that it has a plugin for and that you are at least marginally interested in looking at, and look at both that game and ACT at the same time.

I guess that's the main problem with trackers for me. I got 0 interest in games that use them (this is the list from act's site)

And I got barely any interest of tinkering with or figuring them out in a game that I got 0 interest in. I might ask you or Azherae for a tracker during alpha2 just to see what they provide for the game's experience, but before that I'm not sure I'd be able to give them a fair look through if I tried using them in another game.

Is there maybe a video guide for absolute dumbass newbs about what ACT does? Cause from a quick search on youtube, most of the stuff seems to just explain how to set it up w/o any real practical use of it.

Dizz1

Neurath wrote: »

Wow definitely does trash bots and botters, there are videos online of Wow devs destroying bot accounts. The problem is there are thousands of botters much like Runescape. It takes time to detect and destroy each botter and then the botters just open up new accounts and continue. You can't curb these practices in Wow because they are very profitable, much like multi boxers who use multiple toons/accounts to gain extra rare drops (Its only used for rare drops despite what others say). A 5% drop chance sees 2, 3 or 4 drops an hour when 20 toons are all killing the same mobs with the 5% drop chance. You'll be lucky to get 1 or 2 an hour at 5% drop chance solo. Anyway, I digress.

Trackers won't make or break the game. Even if no trackers stop the usual top PvE Guilds from playing, Ashes will have top PvE Guilds spawned from the player base anyway. Its not like we require the usual top PvE Guilds - Everyone will PvE a little in a PvX. Make no mistake, PvX is the main game mode and a tracker is like a kill cam to PvPers, an addon that will struggle to be approved.

I doubt it, few bots I report and their id never shows on punish list and I still see them in WOW while I still play it.

When cost higher than profit business don't go on, just simple as that, so I willing to pay to support Intrepid to do it, punish what need to be punished: gold sellers gold buyers bot users etc what ever the behavior hurt the game beyond you can tolerate, and yes I aware that people can have lot of money to spend and I don't care, they need to pay first to create account means they paid so it won't hurt the game to punish them by delete their accounts but not to do will hurt the game, because it will create a atmosphere and mentality that tells players that you as game developers don't care that as long as you get profit, then player start don't care anymore and it's one big reason most mmos dead.

NiKr wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Honestly, my suggestion would be to download it, find a game that it has a plugin for and that you are at least marginally interested in looking at, and look at both that game and ACT at the same time.

I guess that's the main problem with trackers for me. I got 0 interest in games that use them (this is the list from act's site)

It's worth noting that you are only looking at the plugins that ACT itself is hosting. There are a good number of other plugins out there, but they are probably a bit harder to find.

Failing that, if you do indeed want to get a good understanding of what ACT can do, I suggest looking over this page

https://advancedcombattracker.com/screenshots.php

Click each screenshot (I suggest going in order), they have a description of what each one is showing.

I think MMOs die because of the time investment. It was all well and good when we were all young and in education. It gets harder when we have familys, and even less time becomes available. If the gulf between what we want and what we get becomes too wide we just cut out things we can't achieve - most of the times that would be the MMOs. In some ways, its a rather high fluted mode of gaming. We all know masses amounts of time will go into a MMO if the MMO is good, but, the more time we spend in an MMO the more the flaws start to grate and the less likely we are to stick to the MMO in question. Certainly, expansions can change an MMO so fundamentally and add to the widening gap between hardcore and casual that it simply doesn't become viable for some people in the long term.

Neurath wrote: »

I think MMOs die because of the time investment.

I'm not sure I can agree with this.

I've seen people in top end guilds with me that only play the game 9 - 12 hours a week. They set aside 3 nights a week, and play 3 or 4 hours a night. Those 3 nights just so happen to be the nights we were raiding.

Some games (WoW is bad at this) add in artificial barriers so that people can't just log in and run the content they want, but this is kind of the minority of games.

To me, that 9 - 12 hours a week isn't that much more of a commitment than if you joined a bowling team, or a book club, or a - what ever else people do.

While it is absolutely true that some people would put that bowling club before playing an MMO and so may not have time for that MMO, I am of the firm belief that people think MMO's take more time than they actually do take.

One need only look at the number of players in most games running around town doing nothing for evidence of this.

Neurath wrote: »

I think MMOs die because of the time investment. It was all well and good when we were all young and in education. It gets harder when we have familys, and even less time becomes available.

I wrote this in another thread, but it still applies here

NiKr wrote: »

Kardin wrote: »

that is a bad choise of design, we are not kid anymore and we are not in L2, i personally work 8h a day (normal timework i think), sleep 8h (otherwise i will not perform at work) and in general i can play maybe 1h to 3h a day, and like me probably 70% of the world

Now just a quick question. Back in those L2 days, were you always the oldest kid around? Were there only kids playing the game? Because back when I played L2, I was usually the youngest person in my guild. I talked with 40-50y.o. dudes with wives and kids who, yes, played only for 2-3h a day if that, but they enjoyed the game to the fullest and the guild would just get more people who played during a different time to pad out their spawn camping shifts.

Yes, you've become old, but instead of being selfish and thinking about only your own benefits, try to think about the current younger people who might want to experience the same thing you did back then. If you have 1h to play the game - do so and enjoy that 1h. If you can't enjoy the game w/o getting everything presented to you on a silver platter - mmos are no longer for you.

The mmos die because they went down the shitter with their design. And you just need to look at FF14's success to see that. FF14 became better at what it was doing over the years and has millions of people playing it and enjoying it. All you need is a good game and people will play it even if they only have 1h a day to play, while the game want you to spend hundreds of hours to achieve smth.

Noaani wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

I think MMOs die because of the time investment.

I'm not sure I can agree with this.

I've seen people in top end guilds with me that only play the game 9 - 12 hours a week. They set aside 3 nights a week, and play 3 or 4 hours a night. Those 3 nights just so happen to be the nights we were raiding.

Some games (WoW is bad at this) add in artificial barriers so that people can't just log in and run the content they want, but this is kind of the minority of games.

To me, that 9 - 12 hours a week isn't that much more of a commitment than if you joined a bowling team, or a book club, or a - what ever else people do.

While it is absolutely true that some people would put that bowling club before playing an MMO and so may not have time for that MMO, I am of the firm belief that people think MMO's take more time than they actually do take.

One need only look at the number of players in most games running around town doing nothing for evidence of this.

There is a difference between playing an MMO and just having a raid schedule. A raid schedule to me is not playing the MMO. This is the difference between the PvP players and the PvE Players. Its why your old statements of 'There are more PvE players than PvP players' can be said to be true. Ashes will die a lot faster if the PvP players leave. Ashes wants PvP to be the gears of change. The issue will pertain to expansions - which normally only focus on PvE as a matter of fact. PvP expansions are much rarer and are much more needed in Ashes.

Dizz1

Neurath wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

I think MMOs die because of the time investment.

I'm not sure I can agree with this.

I've seen people in top end guilds with me that only play the game 9 - 12 hours a week. They set aside 3 nights a week, and play 3 or 4 hours a night. Those 3 nights just so happen to be the nights we were raiding.

Some games (WoW is bad at this) add in artificial barriers so that people can't just log in and run the content they want, but this is kind of the minority of games.

To me, that 9 - 12 hours a week isn't that much more of a commitment than if you joined a bowling team, or a book club, or a - what ever else people do.

While it is absolutely true that some people would put that bowling club before playing an MMO and so may not have time for that MMO, I am of the firm belief that people think MMO's take more time than they actually do take.

One need only look at the number of players in most games running around town doing nothing for evidence of this.

There is a difference between playing an MMO and just having a raid schedule. A raid schedule to me is not playing the MMO. This is the difference between the PvP players and the PvE Players. Its why your old statements of 'There are more PvE players than PvP players' can be said to be true. Ashes will die a lot faster if the PvP players leave. Ashes wants PvP to be the gears of change. The issue will pertain to expansions - which normally only focus on PvE as a matter of fact. PvP expansions are much rarer and are much more needed in Ashes.

No, I think you all over think it, mmo players always find the part they like in one mmo to play, and back in the day we really are play mmos which means not played by it, there are not such time investment BS there, we just login and have fun, end game? bis? addons? metat? raids? hardcore players? F that, I play the game not the other way around.

Noaani wrote: »

Failing that, if you do indeed want to get a good understanding of what ACT can do, I suggest looking over this page.

I mean, to me this just looks like a written form of an omniscient pov of the fight. I'm definitely naïve when it comes to this (and obviously haven't experienced content that ever required this), but to me this looks just like a tool to overcome the "humanity" of the game.

This puts all the burden of figuring out raid members' fails and misses on the main parser of the tracker (or the group that does it), while also giving that person omniscient powers over the encounter's history. You remove any human factor from it, mainly because you're seeing the objective truth instead of someone's recollection of their actions, or at the very least video recording of it (which is nowhere near the omniscience that's seemingly present in those screenshots).

I guess I'm just a purist, when it comes to this topic. Maybe that stems from me never having the need for this kind of information or maybe from just my own preferences in gaming, but this point is even stronger than the "it speeds up content consumption" one for me. Guess I'll just never participate in AoC's top lvl pve, if it ends up requiring trackers.

Dizz wrote: »

No, I think you all over think it, mmo players always find the part they like in one mmo to play, and back in the day we really are play mmos which means not played by it, there are not such time investment BS there, we just login and have fun end game? bis? raid? hardcore players? F that I play the game not the another way around.

Its not overthinking it, its called playing a plethora of MMOs and seeing the majority die. I'm like you but people like us will not keep an MMO alive. People like us get shafted with Free 2 Play and then eventually Private Servers. From my perspective you have rose tinted glasses. It matters not whether I'm correct or not. The simply fact remains that ashes is a PvX game. What in your mind can be added that does not subtract from PvX that can also be counted as a PvP Expansion in Ashes?

Neurath wrote: »

There is a difference between playing an MMO and just having a raid schedule. A raid schedule to me is not playing the MMO.

Do I have to specifically say "I am not talking about Neurath" every time I talk about people I have played games with?

Cool, to you, clearing top end PvE content isn't playing an MMO. Great, so what? To others it is. This is especially true in a game where PvE is the focus - obviously.

I never said clearing top end pve content is not playing an MMO. I merely pointed out that having these instances on farm is not playing the MMO. I would assume that after years of playing you would have them on farm. Perhaps I should not assume. Perhaps if you don't want a response from me, you should not quote me in your response.

Neurath wrote: »

Its not overthinking it, its called playing a plethora of MMOs and seeing the majority die.

Step one to picking an MMO that you want to play for a decade or more with a healthy population - start with a game that has solid PvE.

While there are exceptions, if you chart PvE and PvP games next to each other, PvE games clearly (VERY clearly) have a longer life than PvP games. Not only that, but they have a larger player base in the time they are active.

This is why I have been saying for YEARS now that Ashes needs solid PvE at it's core, and leaving PvP to be an agent of change to that PvE.

If PvP is at the fore in Ashes, it will either close or go free to play within 4 years.

Neurath wrote: »

I never said clearing top end pve content is not playing an MMO. I merely pointed out that having these instances on farm is not playing the MMO. I would assume that after years of playing you would have them on farm. Perhaps I should not assume. Perhaps if you don't want a response from me, you should not quote me in your response.

This is a very "PvP" reply here. It shows that you think any one piece of content could be relevant for years.

No one piece of content should be relevant for more than maybe 4 or 5 months. The game, or at least the games current development team, are absolute shit if they let this happen. Hell, I can name a dozen encounters that were only relevant for 2 hours - killed once, never looked at again.

It also doesn't matter how long you have been playing the game, a new encounter is still new - you have no idea at all what to expect.

Hatham

Noaani wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

I never said clearing top end pve content is not playing an MMO. I merely pointed out that having these instances on farm is not playing the MMO. I would assume that after years of playing you would have them on farm. Perhaps I should not assume. Perhaps if you don't want a response from me, you should not quote me in your response.

This is a very "PvP" reply here. It shows that you think any one piece of content could be relevant for years.

No one piece of content should be relevant for more than maybe 4 or 5 months. The game, or at least the games current development team, are absolute shit if they let this happen. Hell, I can name a dozen encounters that were only relevant for 2 hours - killed once, never looked at again.

It also doesn't matter how long you have been playing the game, a new encounter is still new - you have no idea at all what to expect.

The problem is that its been drilled into a lot of mmorpgs players that raiding is the only real endgame content for pve and that is whats killing the mmorpg genre coupled with the sp player mentality that leads to that same endgame rush, mods while good and bad are just adding fuel to the 'rush to endgame meta' at the moment.

We've come to the situational dilemma. No developer can consistently churn out relevant and radical PvE content. Even WoW couldn't do it hence Mythic + was born - a simple time trialled repetition of the same PvE instances with a few adaptations here and there. PvP players are lucky if we get a new battleground map per expansion. The main issue I have right now is the desire from the devs and certain players that want content to only be achievable by the top 1%.

This in itself screams lack of content long term. Unless each expansion sees a new 1%er instance come out, but, then, the level of the gear would be enhanced and the rest will no longer be 1%ers. Such is the bane of PvE expansions. Its why Method can run naked dungeons or tank only dungeons. Its why I've been able to solo some dungeons and why i continue to try to solo some dungeons.

At a certain point, there is little value to keep repeating the same content without major adaptations like soloing or duoing or running the dungeons naked. Its because, the top 1%er dungeons are trivial once the tactics are learnt. Some do keep the tactics hidden for years. I commend those guilds. Whilst, others leak the tactics and more people can complete the 1% dungeons. On top of that, WoW had to introduce Raid Finder and Group Finder modes which again trivialised the content.

From my perspective the genre is too narrow for PvP and too wide for PvE. I see many holes in the plans for Ashes of Creation. I see many flaws in the plans for Ashes of Creation. I also suspect that the longevity of the world will not be as long as some people suspect. The reason being, all the pvp expansions that could have happened have already been unlocked through the kickstarter goals. Which means, there literally is very little PvP content that can be expanded on expansion after expansion.

Mag7spy

NiKr wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

As I explained earlier in this thread, if Intrwpid implement first party trackers, they are then in a position to actually be able to prevent third party trackers.

How though? What if Intrepid's tracker doesn't have some functionality and Intrepid refuses to add it. Wouldn't some 3rd party just make their own and the same hardcore players that care about trackers would just use the better one?

Or just even the basic "I wanna use the info outside of the game" wish from players would only be addressed by a 3rd party tracker that's outside of the game. Or would you demand Intrepid make their tracker a separate app?

This is exactly it, he is trying to open the gate for everything else that is his purpose lol.

Neurath wrote: »

The reason being, all the pvp expansions that could have happened have already been unlocked through the kickstarter goals. Which means, there literally is very little PvP content that can be expanded on expansion after expansion.

The beauty of pvp is that it doesn't really need expansions. I've seen L2 servers live for years with the same content, but it wasn't an issue because people just pvped with each other for castles and for the super rare loot that this content had. And if you keep adding pve stuff for the players who don't find pvp fun - you'll have yourself a game with high longevity.