Nyce, I was reading what you said, and before I could even see the end of the post, I thought "I'd better save my reply until I get in front of a PC, and tackle each point in an organized format", which I rarely bother doing.
And then, still far from the end of the walltext tunnel, it hit me....
Yeah, let's get combat trackers.
After that we can get addons that tells us when a boss is about to use a skills. I mean, you can't stop people from using Addons, you won't be able to prevent it from happening.
Went longer than expected. Thought it wouldve been much sooner to see this thread necroed. Then theres a fresh account made just this morning to set off the debate/re-debate/re-re-debate.
Went longer than expected. Thought it wouldve been much sooner to see this thread necroed. Then theres a fresh account made just this morning to set off the debate/re-debate/re-re-debate.
Shall we try for 400?
may as well aim for 300 pages first. seems more practical. We can safely assume they're coming to the game eventually.
A real time DPS meter will not likely be a thing until after launch, someone has to write an app from scratch, or make a plugin for ACT.
A deadly boss mods callout mod will not be until after that. But if the bosses are as easy as I am afraid of, they will never happen.
The ability to parse combat logs to get an after battle full numbers breakdown of every participant, will be a thing not long after alpha2. Anyone can write a parser with even the most basic coding skills.
A real time DPS meter will not likely be a thing until after launch, someone has to write an app from scratch, or make a plugin for ACT.
A deadly boss mods callout mod will not be until after that. But if the bosses are as easy as I am afraid of, they will never happen.
The ability to parse combat logs to get an after battle full numbers breakdown of every participant, will be a thing not long after alpha2. Anyone can write a parser with even the most basic coding skills.
I'm against meters but there is no point denying the inevitable.
Who knows, maybe they'll end up going full tab target during alpha 2. lol
Went longer than expected. Thought it wouldve been much sooner to see this thread necroed. Then theres a fresh account made just this morning to set off the debate/re-debate/re-re-debate.
Shall we try for 400?
may as well aim for 300 pages first. seems more practical. We can safely assume they're coming to the game eventually.
Went longer than expected. Thought it wouldve been much sooner to see this thread necroed. Then theres a fresh account made just this morning to set off the debate/re-debate/re-re-debate.
Shall we try for 400?
may as well aim for 300 pages first. seems more practical. We can safely assume they're coming to the game eventually.
Went longer than expected. Thought it wouldve been much sooner to see this thread necroed. Then theres a fresh account made just this morning to set off the debate/re-debate/re-re-debate.
Shall we try for 400?
may as well aim for 300 pages first. seems more practical. We can safely assume they're coming to the game eventually.
A real time DPS meter will not likely be a thing until after launch, someone has to write an app from scratch, or make a plugin for ACT.
A deadly boss mods callout mod will not be until after that. But if the bosses are as easy as I am afraid of, they will never happen.
The ability to parse combat logs to get an after battle full numbers breakdown of every participant, will be a thing not long after alpha2. Anyone can write a parser with even the most basic coding skills.
I'm against meters but there is no point denying the inevitable.
Who knows, maybe they'll end up going full tab target during alpha 2. lol
Sounds like a good reason to 50/50 the hybrid at the very minimum.
A real time DPS meter will not likely be a thing until after launch, someone has to write an app from scratch, or make a plugin for ACT.
A deadly boss mods callout mod will not be until after that. But if the bosses are as easy as I am afraid of, they will never happen.
The ability to parse combat logs to get an after battle full numbers breakdown of every participant, will be a thing not long after alpha2. Anyone can write a parser with even the most basic coding skills.
I'm against meters but there is no point denying the inevitable.
Who knows, maybe they'll end up going full tab target during alpha 2. lol
Sounds like a good reason to 50/50 the hybrid at the very minimum.
lol. I mean I wouldn't put it past them to adjust the scale again at this point.
A real time DPS meter will not likely be a thing until after launch, someone has to write an app from scratch, or make a plugin for ACT.
A deadly boss mods callout mod will not be until after that. But if the bosses are as easy as I am afraid of, they will never happen.
The ability to parse combat logs to get an after battle full numbers breakdown of every participant, will be a thing not long after alpha2. Anyone can write a parser with even the most basic coding skills.
I'm against meters but there is no point denying the inevitable.
Who knows, maybe they'll end up going full tab target during alpha 2. lol
Sounds like a good reason to 50/50 the hybrid at the very minimum.
lol. I mean I wouldn't put it past them to adjust the scale again at this point.
Precision based abilities aren’t going to be meant to stop DPS meters, but it’ll sure as hell stop a lot easy applications and reduce peoples DPS.
A real time DPS meter will not likely be a thing until after launch, someone has to write an app from scratch, or make a plugin for ACT.
A deadly boss mods callout mod will not be until after that. But if the bosses are as easy as I am afraid of, they will never happen.
The ability to parse combat logs to get an after battle full numbers breakdown of every participant, will be a thing not long after alpha2. Anyone can write a parser with even the most basic coding skills.
I'm against meters but there is no point denying the inevitable.
Who knows, maybe they'll end up going full tab target during alpha 2. lol
Sounds like a good reason to 50/50 the hybrid at the very minimum.
lol. I mean I wouldn't put it past them to adjust the scale again at this point.
Precision based abilities aren’t going to be meant to stop DPS meters, but it’ll sure as hell stop a lot easy applications and reduce peoples DPS.
So it’ll serve a good purpose.
Meters are meters. Just displays metrics of input and output based around a cycle or duration.
A real time DPS meter will not likely be a thing until after launch, someone has to write an app from scratch, or make a plugin for ACT.
A deadly boss mods callout mod will not be until after that. But if the bosses are as easy as I am afraid of, they will never happen.
The ability to parse combat logs to get an after battle full numbers breakdown of every participant, will be a thing not long after alpha2. Anyone can write a parser with even the most basic coding skills.
I'm against meters but there is no point denying the inevitable.
Who knows, maybe they'll end up going full tab target during alpha 2. lol
Sounds like a good reason to 50/50 the hybrid at the very minimum.
lol. I mean I wouldn't put it past them to adjust the scale again at this point.
Precision based abilities aren’t going to be meant to stop DPS meters, but it’ll sure as hell stop a lot easy applications and reduce peoples DPS.
So it’ll serve a good purpose.
Meters are meters. Just displays metrics of input and output based around a cycle or duration.
Indeed.
This is why I don't get why anyone could be against them. Literally all they do, all they are capable of doing, is taking information the game wants us to have, and display it in an easier to understand manner.
A real time DPS meter will not likely be a thing until after launch, someone has to write an app from scratch, or make a plugin for ACT.
A deadly boss mods callout mod will not be until after that. But if the bosses are as easy as I am afraid of, they will never happen.
The ability to parse combat logs to get an after battle full numbers breakdown of every participant, will be a thing not long after alpha2. Anyone can write a parser with even the most basic coding skills.
I'm against meters but there is no point denying the inevitable.
Who knows, maybe they'll end up going full tab target during alpha 2. lol
Sounds like a good reason to 50/50 the hybrid at the very minimum.
lol. I mean I wouldn't put it past them to adjust the scale again at this point.
Precision based abilities aren’t going to be meant to stop DPS meters, but it’ll sure as hell stop a lot easy applications and reduce peoples DPS.
So it’ll serve a good purpose.
Meters are meters. Just displays metrics of input and output based around a cycle or duration.
Indeed.
This is why I don't get why anyone could be against them. Literally all they do, all they are capable of doing, is taking information the game wants us to have, and display it in an easier to understand manner.
The most remedially obvious one is toxicity in and out of the game. But I'm sure it's been talked about within the 204 pages of this thread. Players do shame other players.
A real time DPS meter will not likely be a thing until after launch, someone has to write an app from scratch, or make a plugin for ACT.
A deadly boss mods callout mod will not be until after that. But if the bosses are as easy as I am afraid of, they will never happen.
The ability to parse combat logs to get an after battle full numbers breakdown of every participant, will be a thing not long after alpha2. Anyone can write a parser with even the most basic coding skills.
I'm against meters but there is no point denying the inevitable.
Who knows, maybe they'll end up going full tab target during alpha 2. lol
Sounds like a good reason to 50/50 the hybrid at the very minimum.
lol. I mean I wouldn't put it past them to adjust the scale again at this point.
Precision based abilities aren’t going to be meant to stop DPS meters, but it’ll sure as hell stop a lot easy applications and reduce peoples DPS.
So it’ll serve a good purpose.
Meters are meters. Just displays metrics of input and output based around a cycle or duration.
Indeed.
This is why I don't get why anyone could be against them. Literally all they do, all they are capable of doing, is taking information the game wants us to have, and display it in an easier to understand manner.
The most remedially obvious one is toxicity in and out of the game. But I'm sure it's been talked about within the 204 pages of this thread. Players do shame other players.
I remember my first MMORPG.
It has been talked about.
Toxicity is not inherent to combat tracker use. It is more closely tied to being able to treat players as disposable.
If I am on a server with 2000 players, I can't really afford to piss people off. If I am using a tracker - which I always am - I won't use it to shame others or to make them feel bad. If I post the parse of a run and the results make them feel bad, that is on them, not on the tracker. They should feel bad for needing to be carried - the only thing the tracker did was point out that this was the case. However, they now have the option to try and remedy that, should they want to do so.
I'm not likely to boot a poorly performing player from a group if that group is able to carry that player through the content in question though. There is no point, a replacement is likely going to he hard to find and so it would be faster to run the content with that player. I'm likely to run in to that player again, and they are likely to get better with time, best to leave things in a good place.
On the other hand, if I can group up with any one of millions of players from any server, if someone isnt performing and I can replace them immediately, knowing I am unlikely to ever come across that player again, why wouldn't I post their poor performance for the group to see so we can boot them and get someone faster?
One situation is the game giving you information but giving you reasons to treat others with respect still, while the other is handing you information and asking you to be as toxic as you can with it.
A real time DPS meter will not likely be a thing until after launch, someone has to write an app from scratch, or make a plugin for ACT.
A deadly boss mods callout mod will not be until after that. But if the bosses are as easy as I am afraid of, they will never happen.
The ability to parse combat logs to get an after battle full numbers breakdown of every participant, will be a thing not long after alpha2. Anyone can write a parser with even the most basic coding skills.
I'm against meters but there is no point denying the inevitable.
Who knows, maybe they'll end up going full tab target during alpha 2. lol
Sounds like a good reason to 50/50 the hybrid at the very minimum.
lol. I mean I wouldn't put it past them to adjust the scale again at this point.
Precision based abilities aren’t going to be meant to stop DPS meters, but it’ll sure as hell stop a lot easy applications and reduce peoples DPS.
So it’ll serve a good purpose.
Meters are meters. Just displays metrics of input and output based around a cycle or duration.
Indeed.
This is why I don't get why anyone could be against them. Literally all they do, all they are capable of doing, is taking information the game wants us to have, and display it in an easier to understand manner.
The most remedially obvious one is toxicity in and out of the game. But I'm sure it's been talked about within the 204 pages of this thread. Players do shame other players.
I remember my first MMORPG.
It has been talked about.
Toxicity is not inherent to combat tracker use. It is more closely tied to being able to treat players as disposable.
If I am on a server with 2000 players, I can't really afford to piss people off. If I am using a tracker - which I always am - I won't use it to shame others or to make them feel bad. If I post the parse of a run and the results make them feel bad, that is on them, not on the tracker. They should feel bad for needing to be carried - the only thing the tracker did was point out that this was the case. However, they now have the option to try and remedy that, should they want to do so.
I'm not likely to boot a poorly performing player from a group if that group is able to carry that player through the content in question though. There is no point, a replacement is likely going to he hard to find and so it would be faster to run the content with that player. I'm likely to run in to that player again, and they are likely to get better with time, best to leave things in a good place.
On the other hand, if I can group up with any one of millions of players from any server, if someone isnt performing and I can replace them immediately, knowing I am unlikely to ever come across that player again, why wouldn't I post their poor performance for the group to see so we can boot them and get someone faster?
One situation is the game giving you information but giving you reasons to treat others with respect still, while the other is handing you information and asking you to be as toxic as you can with it.
In both cases, the information is the same.
It's all been discussed already on the previous 200-ish pages. I don't see a point in being part of the same conversations over and over again.
A real time DPS meter will not likely be a thing until after launch, someone has to write an app from scratch, or make a plugin for ACT.
A deadly boss mods callout mod will not be until after that. But if the bosses are as easy as I am afraid of, they will never happen.
The ability to parse combat logs to get an after battle full numbers breakdown of every participant, will be a thing not long after alpha2. Anyone can write a parser with even the most basic coding skills.
I'm against meters but there is no point denying the inevitable.
Who knows, maybe they'll end up going full tab target during alpha 2. lol
Sounds like a good reason to 50/50 the hybrid at the very minimum.
lol. I mean I wouldn't put it past them to adjust the scale again at this point.
Precision based abilities aren’t going to be meant to stop DPS meters, but it’ll sure as hell stop a lot easy applications and reduce peoples DPS.
So it’ll serve a good purpose.
Meters are meters. Just displays metrics of input and output based around a cycle or duration.
I don’t care about meters, if they’re in or out. There’s like five people who have enough expertise to extrapolate that data properly in this community and actually able to help others.
A real time DPS meter will not likely be a thing until after launch, someone has to write an app from scratch, or make a plugin for ACT.
A deadly boss mods callout mod will not be until after that. But if the bosses are as easy as I am afraid of, they will never happen.
The ability to parse combat logs to get an after battle full numbers breakdown of every participant, will be a thing not long after alpha2. Anyone can write a parser with even the most basic coding skills.
I'm against meters but there is no point denying the inevitable.
Who knows, maybe they'll end up going full tab target during alpha 2. lol
Sounds like a good reason to 50/50 the hybrid at the very minimum.
lol. I mean I wouldn't put it past them to adjust the scale again at this point.
Precision based abilities aren’t going to be meant to stop DPS meters, but it’ll sure as hell stop a lot easy applications and reduce peoples DPS.
So it’ll serve a good purpose.
Meters are meters. Just displays metrics of input and output based around a cycle or duration.
I don’t care about meters, if they’re in or out. There’s like five people who have enough expertise to extrapolate that data properly in this community and actually able to help others.
A real time DPS meter will not likely be a thing until after launch, someone has to write an app from scratch, or make a plugin for ACT.
A deadly boss mods callout mod will not be until after that. But if the bosses are as easy as I am afraid of, they will never happen.
The ability to parse combat logs to get an after battle full numbers breakdown of every participant, will be a thing not long after alpha2. Anyone can write a parser with even the most basic coding skills.
I'm against meters but there is no point denying the inevitable.
Who knows, maybe they'll end up going full tab target during alpha 2. lol
Sounds like a good reason to 50/50 the hybrid at the very minimum.
lol. I mean I wouldn't put it past them to adjust the scale again at this point.
Precision based abilities aren’t going to be meant to stop DPS meters, but it’ll sure as hell stop a lot easy applications and reduce peoples DPS.
So it’ll serve a good purpose.
Meters are meters. Just displays metrics of input and output based around a cycle or duration.
I don’t care about meters, if they’re in or out. There’s like five people who have enough expertise to extrapolate that data properly in this community and actually able to help others.
sure. yeah five lol
People can continue pretending to be Statisticians and Necromancers at the same time, enjoy the thread.
DPS meters will lead to parsing and parsing will ruin the game for most people. Statistics don't really tell the truth when it comes down to who is a good player and who is not. Mechanics and teamwork are more important than stats but most players refuse to accept this.
If everybody is just trying to pad stats, the game becomes a toxic cesspool full of idiots and all the good players leave.
A real time DPS meter will not likely be a thing until after launch, someone has to write an app from scratch, or make a plugin for ACT.
A deadly boss mods callout mod will not be until after that. But if the bosses are as easy as I am afraid of, they will never happen.
The ability to parse combat logs to get an after battle full numbers breakdown of every participant, will be a thing not long after alpha2. Anyone can write a parser with even the most basic coding skills.
I'm against meters but there is no point denying the inevitable.
Who knows, maybe they'll end up going full tab target during alpha 2. lol
Sounds like a good reason to 50/50 the hybrid at the very minimum.
lol. I mean I wouldn't put it past them to adjust the scale again at this point.
Precision based abilities aren’t going to be meant to stop DPS meters, but it’ll sure as hell stop a lot easy applications and reduce peoples DPS.
So it’ll serve a good purpose.
Meters are meters. Just displays metrics of input and output based around a cycle or duration.
I don’t care about meters, if they’re in or out. There’s like five people who have enough expertise to extrapolate that data properly in this community and actually able to help others.
sure. yeah five lol
People can continue pretending to be Statisticians and Necromancers at the same time, enjoy the thread.
I'm not vain so I know that's not about me I enjoyed the thread in the earliest pages to be honest.
Statistics don't really tell the truth when it comes down to who is a good player and who is not.
They literally do.
A combat tracker will tell me who is following the mechanics, and who is working as part of a team. Sure, you are right that these things are important, more important than DPS, in fact. However, a combat tracker will tell me these things.
This goes to the post from @Solvryn above - there are more people that mistakenly think they know how to use a combat tracker than there are people that actually know how to use one. If you think a combat tracker can't tell you who is working as a part of a team, or tell you who is following encounter mechanics, you are one of the people that mistakenly think you know how to use a combat tracker but actually don't.
Realistically, if you call a combat tracker a DPS meter (looking directly at you, Steven), you are someone that probably doesn't know how to use a combat tracker.
It's been a while since I was here and read parts of this thread. I thought the official stance on this was there would not be a dps meter allowed.
Is that still the stance?
These dps meters would lead to optimization of damage. Which would be good for those that can actually do that. The truth is only about 10% would benefit from them. The other 40% would be yelling at others telling them how to play because of the top 10%.
I think it would be fun to not have them. Just my op onion.
It's been a while since I was here and read parts of this thread. I thought the official stance on this was there would not be a dps meter allowed.
Is that still the stance?
Yes it is.
However, the notion of saying you aren't allowed to use them is far removed from the praticality of detecting people using them.
Comments
And then, still far from the end of the walltext tunnel, it hit me....
10/10
After that we can get addons that tells us when a boss is about to use a skills. I mean, you can't stop people from using Addons, you won't be able to prevent it from happening.
Shall we try for 400?
may as well aim for 300 pages first. seems more practical. We can safely assume they're coming to the game eventually.
A real time DPS meter will not likely be a thing until after launch, someone has to write an app from scratch, or make a plugin for ACT.
A deadly boss mods callout mod will not be until after that. But if the bosses are as easy as I am afraid of, they will never happen.
The ability to parse combat logs to get an after battle full numbers breakdown of every participant, will be a thing not long after alpha2. Anyone can write a parser with even the most basic coding skills.
I'm against meters but there is no point denying the inevitable.
Who knows, maybe they'll end up going full tab target during alpha 2. lol
Eventually?
They will be in use in alpha 2.
sounds like an eventual time.
Fair point.
Sounds like a good reason to 50/50 the hybrid at the very minimum.
lol. I mean I wouldn't put it past them to adjust the scale again at this point.
Precision based abilities aren’t going to be meant to stop DPS meters, but it’ll sure as hell stop a lot easy applications and reduce peoples DPS.
So it’ll serve a good purpose.
Meters are meters. Just displays metrics of input and output based around a cycle or duration.
Indeed.
This is why I don't get why anyone could be against them. Literally all they do, all they are capable of doing, is taking information the game wants us to have, and display it in an easier to understand manner.
The most remedially obvious one is toxicity in and out of the game. But I'm sure it's been talked about within the 204 pages of this thread. Players do shame other players.
I remember my first MMORPG.
It has been talked about.
Toxicity is not inherent to combat tracker use. It is more closely tied to being able to treat players as disposable.
If I am on a server with 2000 players, I can't really afford to piss people off. If I am using a tracker - which I always am - I won't use it to shame others or to make them feel bad. If I post the parse of a run and the results make them feel bad, that is on them, not on the tracker. They should feel bad for needing to be carried - the only thing the tracker did was point out that this was the case. However, they now have the option to try and remedy that, should they want to do so.
I'm not likely to boot a poorly performing player from a group if that group is able to carry that player through the content in question though. There is no point, a replacement is likely going to he hard to find and so it would be faster to run the content with that player. I'm likely to run in to that player again, and they are likely to get better with time, best to leave things in a good place.
On the other hand, if I can group up with any one of millions of players from any server, if someone isnt performing and I can replace them immediately, knowing I am unlikely to ever come across that player again, why wouldn't I post their poor performance for the group to see so we can boot them and get someone faster?
One situation is the game giving you information but giving you reasons to treat others with respect still, while the other is handing you information and asking you to be as toxic as you can with it.
In both cases, the information is the same.
It's all been discussed already on the previous 200-ish pages. I don't see a point in being part of the same conversations over and over again.
I don’t care about meters, if they’re in or out. There’s like five people who have enough expertise to extrapolate that data properly in this community and actually able to help others.
sure. yeah five lol
People can continue pretending to be Statisticians and Necromancers at the same time, enjoy the thread.
If everybody is just trying to pad stats, the game becomes a toxic cesspool full of idiots and all the good players leave.
I'm not vain so I know that's not about me
They literally do.
A combat tracker will tell me who is following the mechanics, and who is working as part of a team. Sure, you are right that these things are important, more important than DPS, in fact. However, a combat tracker will tell me these things.
This goes to the post from @Solvryn above - there are more people that mistakenly think they know how to use a combat tracker than there are people that actually know how to use one. If you think a combat tracker can't tell you who is working as a part of a team, or tell you who is following encounter mechanics, you are one of the people that mistakenly think you know how to use a combat tracker but actually don't.
Realistically, if you call a combat tracker a DPS meter (looking directly at you, Steven), you are someone that probably doesn't know how to use a combat tracker.
Is that still the stance?
These dps meters would lead to optimization of damage. Which would be good for those that can actually do that. The truth is only about 10% would benefit from them. The other 40% would be yelling at others telling them how to play because of the top 10%.
I think it would be fun to not have them. Just my op onion.
However, the notion of saying you aren't allowed to use them is far removed from the praticality of detecting people using them.
Combat trackers not existing isn't an option.