Greetings, glorious testers!
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
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Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
I'll make you a deal. You don't tell me how to play the game, and I won't tell you how to play the game.
Throw in there that I reckon you need to git gud and we have a deal.
you have a raider making a long post why they like dps meter, because it is a tool that helps them like gym equipment can help you get muscle (but you can of course get muscle without tools)
Then you get the wild "chad" hater, proclaiming how good he is in the unknown part of the universe he resides in - shitting on everyone he meets without ever using meters (i'm glad he didnt add as his resume being a tictactoe champion)
Then Noaani feels the disturbance in the force and a long back and forth of logic arguments vs The Catchphrase begins
― Plato
(dont worry i know you are a god gamer
― Plato
Sports fitness has come a long way. In no small part thanks to tools.
This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
I know, but you know how it is - there is always that guy from a pub in a small village that tells you with a beer in hand that he can get ripped in no time without any gym equipment and look like mr olympia
― Plato
I am that guy.
But I tell it to me with a beer in my hand... then I go to bed a few hours later.
This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
Maybe while you were still Sisko, but now you're the weird freaky tentacle blob monster thing. That ain't no Sisko...
I am that guy...
This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
1 VIsual : Easy solution : by beeing able to enable it or not you could simply take it off when you want to enjoy the game visuals etc ... ( so if i anderstand what you say , we also should take off the spell barres ? beceause they are on our screen and we can't fully enjoy the game ?? take off all UI at this point .... )
2 If people only ask about metrics they are not anderstanding the tool and its purpose , so the tool is not to blame but the ppl....
Your enjoyement in a MMORPG is maybe to do lifeskills stuff, or simply enjoy the countryside , but some of us actually love to improve our character and perform... what is wrong about it ? and the solution is so easy : put it so people can or not enable/show it. ---> everyone would be happy
and for those who don't want to share their infos ( dps etc ) could disable it so no one can see it.
In spirit of those concerns there was many times proposed a guild only meter as an optional guild perk.
I get that people dont want meters in the game, but they are just going to exist no matter what - it is the option on the dev side to have it as a part of the game and thus have control over who is qualified to use it and where
or just bury heads in sand and pretend that ppl dont use them (like some ffxiv folk do
― Plato
It's not really like using gym equipment. It's more like being in a math competition and saying your not cheating by using a calculator
So you can midmax ( even if a combat and a dummy is not the same it can help you anderstand and optimise your rotation etc)
So with this solution no one can ask for your dps etc ( no point you could say anything ) but you can midmax if you want to.
This is not the solution i would like but if they don't want dps meters this could be a side solution for those who need those numbers
The downside of this is that a game like Ashes is going to have classes that affect how well you perform in combat - meaning that this training dummy would need to be able to work with a full group, not just one player.
Since it would need to work on a full group in order to do what it is intended to do, that means if you want to know how someone else performs, you simply need to take them along with you to have a go on that dummy.
To me, this is keeping any perceived negative aspects of a guild based combat tracker (only tracks combat of players in your group or raid that are also in your guild), but offers up virtually none of the benefits.
On the other hand, if Intrepid make the bard class not actually function as a support at all, something like this could work - but that just leaves issues with bards being worthless.
Comparing meters to using calculator in math competition is completely wrong.
Minmaxing builds is often done outside of the game in spreadsheets to get the theory of it with some data and then is backed up by a custom simulation software that gets the theorycrafters performances of the builds in various situations.
All of that is done without the game running - so what do the meters actually do? They tell you what happened, what you've taken damage from what spells were not kicked etc. You can just setup screen capture and then go through the video to see what happened - which is the same thing that meters do, but in easily readable format
Not to mention that calculator in math competition computes instead of you and meters cannot control your char in any capacity (btw some math competitions allow calculator, because math is more than solving recited equation from teacher and require actual problem solving skills to extract equations from text)
― Plato
Once you hit high level math (most secondary, all tertiary), calculators in exams are expected - though the institution you are taking the exam through will likely have a list of acceptable models. At this level, knowing how to multiply is not the point - you are being tested on your ability to work out how to solve the problem.
On the other hand, people that are still struggling with basic math can't use a calculator in an exam - because that defeats the purpose.
Likewise with combat trackers, people that are playing the game at a basic level may look at it as cheating. However, those of us playing MMO's at the top end know better - the tracker is just a tool.
You don't use a combat tracker to assist you with the basics of a games combat - people that try to do this are the kind of people that complain about the space they take up on their screen, or that they spend all their time looking at the tracker and not the game, or any number of other inane things that just highlight how little the person actually knows about MMO's at the top end in relation to how much they think they know about MMO's at the top end.
Make dps tracking an active ability a player must devote all of their characters functions to in order to use it. Meaning you have a player or players outside of the combat to track the dps done by the team.
Putting the knowledge into one players hands and allowing them to determine what is given out to the party could be the best way to implement this without it creating an extremely toxic environment. Only the most dedicated would bother to use it and they might only use it occasionally. It gives players the option without making it so free that it becomes mandatory for any group.
But don't worry - even if it was possible that meters wouldn't exist then you'd still have some player power ranking even if it is even the ilvl of your gear.
Also I hope you don't mean by a toxic environment the refusal to bring players that are not geared for the content.
And if you fear for being kicked mid run for being bad then i'd guess you were playing mmo's where replacing a player is quick and easy
― Plato
While this is a novel idea, it wouldn't work.
Any attempt at adding a combat tracker to Ashes needs to be done in an attempt to make it what is used rather than third party trackers.
This means any major hurdles (such as dedicating an entire player to it) simply won't convince people to use the in game tracker vs a third party one.
This is why the guild suggestion is still the best idea I am aware of. There are limits to it - you can't track combat of any player not in your guild.
When this is properly considered, it kills off every perceived issue I have seen directed at combat trackers, but still leaves the functionality in tact to ensure it is used instead of third party trackers.
Yeah a guild only tracker would be another way to do it. Basically you are signing up to join a guild and have a lower chance of encountering a player attempting to bash you over the head with your dps ranking since they will more often than not know you better.
― Plato
Well i like ff14's approach. Go for it, use those 3rd party addons and as long as it doesnt have a direct impact they dont care to enforce ToS. But if you mention dps in-game your ass is grass.
I have used a combat tracker with a YouTube video of game play of Ashes. There is no scope left at all for any MMO to assume there will not be combat trackers.
The days of that being a developer decision are over.
Now sure, it maay well be that Intrepid ow FFXIV and ban people that talk about it.
However, since most group chat will be VoIP, there really isn't anything they can do about that.
So, Intrepid are currently saying they are not allowing a thing they can't even detect without breaking privacy laws, and are leaving players free to talk a out it all they want in one of the two communication methods in game - let alone Discord or other out of game communication channels.
That just seems both stupid and arbitrary to me - when instead they could add in a combat tracker and have a measure of control over it themselves.
Like, you can't objectively look at how it is going to go down and say that it is a better plan than Intrepid doing it in house and having it as a guild only system.
I feel that is a better alternative than to have it unrestricted. Wow has a TERRIBLY toxic community when it comes to these sorts of things while ff14s approach has created a space that is much more welcoming. Sure it's not perfect but you cannot deny that ff14s community is better than most mmo communities in this regard.
Instead of going down an arms race with ACT until damage numbers are only server side and players can never see them. They chose to adopt the only sensible policy they can. Keep discussion of DPS out of game. That is really the only policy they can enforce that has the desired effect.
There will be a time when Intrepid has to admit that the only thing they can do to ever truly prevent DPS meters is remove damage numbers from the client so that players can not see them. Which would really upset the playerbase... an MMORPG with no numbers...
or they can just make it a TOS violation to tell people their performance sucks based on the meter. Which is what FFXIV did. It was that or just outright allow them. The situation is really no different for Ashes. People will use anything up to and including AI computer vision to pull the numbers into a meter in real time.
This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
Usually those metres just help with rotation pacing based on PvE combat mechanics involving dungeons and raids. There is a lot of add-ons just tell you how to play now.
I wont really bother getting into why most PvE is boring in MMORPG's for someone like myself, but I will say the most entertaining part is figuring out those boss mechanics instead of just watching some video on how to get through the different phases. PvE needs to be fun and engaging with a bit of chaos to keep players on their toes, not some hokey pokey dance you see in every MMORPG.
Agreed 100%, I will also admit to being a part of that toxicity in the past.
FFXIV has taught me to call out the specific behavior that is causing low DPS. Not the players for low DPS. This may sound like you are just shifting the blame, but it is actually more helpful. Telling a black mage that he could cast xenoglossy 4 times by a certain point in a fight is much more constructive and helpful than telling him his DPS "sucks" and "get good".
FFXIV is so rigid in its rotations and so many people play alts that odds are someone in a group knows exactly how someone his playing wrong and can see it in ACT. Explaining specifics can still lead to name-calling and shit talking, but I have seen specifically telling someone what they are doing wrong be far more effective than just venting outright toxicity. It is also not against TOS to tell a machinist if they can't cast heat blast five times in during their window, they are playing the class wrong or don't have the ping required to play the class optimally.
There is also something to be said for "Blind" runs. Which is why I always, always, always skip the story in FFXIV and run straight to the end game. I don't like watching videos unless I am well behind in prog and the rest of my group has seen the video and just wants to clear.
This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.