Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place 5+ days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place 5+ days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Comments
Why don't you start posting kn ways where what you mean is what you actually say?
That is a rhetorical question - the answer is because you know you have no solid point, and the only way you can say anything that will not be immediately and completely disproven is to obfuscate what you are saying, so that as soon as that refute is posted, you can just say "that thing that I just said isn't what I just said", while offering no clarification at all on what you wanted to originally say.
There are other ways to evaluate skill efficacy.
I said they don't answer "WTF killed". I didn't say they are incapable of doing so.
You can easily figure out WTF killed you without a DPS meter.
People know WTF killed them without relying on DPS meters.
Just because the hardcore progression playstyle wants the tool, doesn't mean the tool is necessary.
As posted above - developers do not determine what players consider to be necessary.
You stating what top end players consider necessary is literally no different to me telling you what is and is not necessary for you to play a game.
I assume you do not want me to make that decision for you, so don't you attempt to make it for others.
Ashes already has a similar stance, AFAIK.
We aren't talking about systems or mechanics. We are talking about tools.
They are different things.
In Wow you have DBM, maybe people think that is it. You also have Weak Auras.
A lot of people do think this - in fact, most of the people coming in to this thread and posting that they do not want trackers make the assumption that it is a DBM style thing we are talking about.
This is why I make a point to correct each such person.
in wow you basically are left doing only the easiest raid difficulties if you dont install combat assist addons, because the game actually relies on you to have those addons
in ffxiv the only thing you can rly use is tracker and devs acknowledge that it is to your benefit if you use one correctly, but harassment of others because you found they are weak players is not tolerated
and in lost ark everything is perfectly telegraphed so you perfectly know to which oneshot mechanic you died to and even then you have a custom room where you can measure with dps meter your performance, you can customize all of your stats and most build options even if you didnt acquire those yet.
If ashes is going to be heavily stat heavy with the whole trinity system then you cant avoid people wanting and using meters.
However there is a big possibility that the difficulty of raiding in ashes is going to be solely derived through the social and pvp aspect, where the monsters difficulty dont really matter, because you can smoke it even with pvp specced raid (and this is the way I see ashes going currently)
― Plato
How is more detail about anything unnecessary?? Someone mentioned crushing in WoW, that is a perfect example. Because if the tank take a crushing blow that means that the tank isn't wearing enough defence gear, meaning that the tank needs more tanking Gear (+defence or +block). Or maybe the boss did a parry/haste on the tank (two quick hits after each other) meaning that maybe someone other than the tank was Infront of the boss hitting it = higher chance of the boss parrying = double hits. Or maybe it was just a crit/bad luck (even though you can get crit immune as well). All of this is shown in combat trackers and you can dig up what really killed you and fix it in just a minute. Information is key.
No that's combat assistance addons (WA or DBM) and not combat trackers
DBM and WA are combat assistance addons, warcraft logs is a type combat tracker.
The hardcore PvP folk want PvP without Corruption. SOme of them want full loot.
The PvE-only folk want separate PvE-Only servers.
The RP folk want separate RP servers.
You can't always get what you want.
how is your reply in any way relevant? if you didnt stop at the second sentence then you'd realise it was just to illustrate a point about meters that in wow it isnt even enough to have a meter, because you actually need assist addons
― Plato
Sorry maybe you were responding to someone that ni missed in this long thread (haven't really read everything these last pages) but what relevance is your comment to DPS meter or combat trackers?
Again maybe you where responding to something that commented on gameplay and mechanics, then I'm sorry
Aaannndd you did say combat trackers, that is way i responded:)
You don't need a DPS meter to tell you that a Tank needs more defense gear. You might want to use a DPS meter to give you numbers to help you try to efficiently calculate a minimum number of stats for the gear.
Although, who says that the added defense needs to come from gear? The added defense could come from Passive Skills or augments. And sufficient augments could come from synergizing with others in your group.
Steven doesn't want people looking at a DPS meter to use numerical values as a solution to solving challenges. That's why he doesn't even want numerical values on Health Bars.
Steven wants people to think, "Oh! Maybe we should get our Shadow Guardian and Spellstone to support our Guardian." Soul Weaver and Shadow Disciple might also help with that.
You don't need a calculator to compute math.
You might want one.
You don't need a DPS meter to notice two quick hits after each other.
You also don't need a DPS meter to understand being hit by a Crit.
In Ashes, we won't need DPS meters to defeat challenges.
Steven doesn't want you to just "fix it in a minute". For a variety of reasons.
It's the "fix it in a minute" mentality that leads to toxic behavior.
Another good example where knowing what exactly killed you or another person is if the boss have some mechanic that the tank may need to use a CD like spell reflect or shield block. You as a healer, saw that the boss did a spell ability and the second after the tank died. You say to the tank, "you need to use spell reflect", and the ta k respond "i did use spell reflect but he melee hit me or something". How can you know if he is telling the truth or a lie? You can't. And trust me, people lie their asses kg if they make a mistake.
And btw, you do need a calculator to noticed to quick hits. Yesterday our tank took three it's in 0.7 second, try and notice that without a combat tracker.
You do need a combat tracker to notice a crit, because two hits, a crushing blow and a crit can technically do the same about of damage with in a second.
The fix in a minute mentally is to fix small problems like being under crit cap, being under crushing cap, being under avoidance cap. These small mistakes can take up hours if you don't know the cause of a death. I'm not talking about learning a boss mechanic in minutes, that will take time even if we have a combat tracker. My guild didn't kill lady vashj until a couple of weeks in phase 2 of wow tbc classic, even though we used combat trackers
You don't need a combat tracker to notice a crit. Especially not when there are are visual FX for crits.
Small mistakes may add up to hours. Learning how to compensate. That's OK.
Your guild will likely have to adjust their expectations.
Same as folk who want a separate RP server.
Same as folk who want a separate PvE-Only server.
VFX aren't really your friend in that situation. Data is.
I would argue that it doesn't make the game easier, it only gives the game another dimension. Personally, I like as many dimensions as I can get with a game.
I think the guilds that become toxic due to min/maxing with meters, would STILL be toxic without. Some guilds will STILL only allow top players in their raid groups. They'll still know who isn't "pulling their weight" in a raid. They'll figure it out. At the end of the day, jerks will still be jerks.
If I'm in a guild and ask for help getting better...and I don't receive that help...and don't get to participate in more advanced content because I never received the help getting better...that group isn't for me and I move on to the next guild. That's going to be the case with or without meters. IMO
DPS meters? Immediate feedback about performance, and players get kicked for being bad.
No DPS meters? ACT and analyzing combat logs outside the game, kicking people based on that.
No ACT or combat logging of any kind? Spreadsheets using formulas derived from tooltips, kicking people based on builds that are proven to be mathematically superior.
No way to inspect other players? Request screenshare on Discord to show build, kicking people who refuse to do so or have bad builds.
No tooltips on abilities to derive formulas from? Health bars.
No health bars? Recording time to kill on individual mobs.
The further you go to restrict players, the less accurate the data becomes and the more unreasonable kicking people is, but rather than stopping the behavior, all you've done is drive away the people who care about their team's performance and made it more difficult for people to determine their own performance. You will drive WAY more people away trying to hide that data than would be driven away by DPS meters.
The whole PvX thing will probably generate a lot of interest in knowing how much potential you have if jumped or are about to enter a situation. I've never numbered-crunched but I'm beginning to think I should be aware of weaknesses in my build to be addressed so I can enjoy the game with some surety of success.