45 days @ 4/6 hours per day, too much or too little?

Drokk

Does it matter if it takes 1 day or 1000 days as long as you're having fun?

Marcet

Leroher wrote: »

Excuse me sir, but wtf, who the fuck are you to make that difference? Steven wants everyone in the game, from casual to ultra hardcore. And say that the game should be difficult because of the awe we would have seeing a maxlvl is completely fucked up. A game should be enjoyable by itself, people play UNO (card game) because it's fun, and Steven wants Ashes to be fun, not to be some bs for stupid people who only wants to show the mere mortals how much time he wasted grinding some useless shit.

People should invest his time (even all if you want) in something fun, not only for bragging. And yes, Ashes is for casuals and hardcores, so stop saying bullshit in the forum.

Your coment makes a lot of sense. The game should be fun no matter what. I don't want me or anyone to brag, i'ts not about that. I want some things in the game to be very hard to obtain, so people can really dream big and achieve legendary feats.

Sorry for being too passionate about this, I agree, the game is for casuals and hardcore players alike. Im neither of those. Im just trying to defend the right for the hardcore ones to have something to seek.

What my fear is, friend, that for casual service, the game would be made for them. When casual players should be at half of the way on achievements compared to someone who is playing hardcore style, thats why they are casuals.. I don't want to lower the "line".

I don't want to force casual content, because a casual can always reach something in a hardcore world, but a hardcore player can't reach his limit in a casual world. I hope I explained myself and that you understand me.

Leroher

Marcet wrote: »

Leroher wrote: »

Excuse me sir, but wtf, who the fuck are you to make that difference? Steven wants everyone in the game, from casual to ultra hardcore. And say that the game should be difficult because of the awe we would have seeing a maxlvl is completely fucked up. A game should be enjoyable by itself, people play UNO (card game) because it's fun, and Steven wants Ashes to be fun, not to be some bs for stupid people who only wants to show the mere mortals how much time he wasted grinding some useless shit.

People should invest his time (even all if you want) in something fun, not only for bragging. And yes, Ashes is for casuals and hardcores, so stop saying bullshit in the forum.

Your coment makes a lot of sense. The game should be fun no matter what. I don't want me or anyone to brag, i'ts not about that. I want some things in the game to be very hard to obtain, so people can really dream big and achieve legendary feats.

Sorry for being too passionate about this, I agree, the game is for casuals and hardcore players alike. Im neither of those. Im just trying to defend the right for the hardcore ones to have something to seek.

What my fear is, friend, that for casual service, the game would be made for them. When casual players should be at half of the way on achievements compared to someone who is playing hardcore style, thats why they are casuals.. I don't want to lower the "line".

I don't want to force casual content, because a casual can always reach something in a hardcore world, but a hardcore player can't reach his limit in a casual world. I hope I explained myself and that you understand me.

Yes, you explained it very well, and sorry for taking it almost personally too.

You are right, casuals can enjoy the hardcore content but hardcores can't the other way around. And the games being too casual made them be less fun or even boring, so maybe IS should take in less importance the things said by casuals, but I think their aim is to for everyone to love the game.
And being honest usually I don't play that much time because I need to play with friends to really enjoy an online game, MMOs even more (so I'm a casual), but for real, I don't even know if I will end up even almost hardcoring Ashes even alone (hoping for playing with friends in the future) xD.

Marcet

bot wrote: »

not walk around the map RPing for 2 months

I do want to walk around the map RPing for 2 months.

If people doesnt like the leveling aspect of an MMO, they don't like MMO's, and if we make the game for them, they will leave anyway. We will lose the people who like the MMO's in the first place, and then the people who we changed the game for, that didn't like it in the first place.

If you can't invest time in the game, you are gonna be "worst" than the people who play more. We can't dumb down the game to satisfy the "inmediate dopamine" generation. I hope you understand what I mean.

Warth

The whole concept of "Endgame content" is a classic Themepark concept.

"Endgame Content" is barely a thing in Sandbox games, as content during the low-level to mid level ranges are already endgame relevant.

Leroher

Marcet wrote: »

bot wrote: »

not walk around the map RPing for 2 months

I do want to walk around the map RPing for 2 months.

If people doesnt like the leveling aspect of an MMO, they don't like MMO's, and if we make the game for them, they will leave anyway. We will lose the people who like the MMO's in the first place, and then the people who we changed the game for, that didn't like it in the first place.

If you can't invest time in the game, you are gonna be "worst" than the people who play more. We can't dumb down the game to satisfy the "inmediate dopamine" generation. I hope you understand what I mean.

That's something you said to me before (being very important in the game) and I forgot to say my word there. What you want to explain, and something Steve wanted to say clearly, is that he doesn't want everyone to be winners, because that makes the good things meaningless. The game is difficult (and fun) because the things should have value (as you said), and because the game is PvP, that makes it more important, and also goes with the phylosophy risk/reward.

(Edit: looks like I deleted the first line of the comment wtf)

Marcet

Leroher wrote: »

say my word there. What you want to explain, and something Steve wanted to say clearly, is that he doesn't want everyone to be winners, because that makes the good things meaningless. The game is difficult (and fun) because the things should have value (as you said), and because the game is PvP, that makes it more important, and also goes with the phylosophy risk/reward.

True, that explains it very well, btw I hope we can play the game together when the time comes

Unknown

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Unknown

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Marcet

cleansingtotem wrote: »

I love the fake hardcore crowd that thinks time=skill.

Im not hardcore. And I don't think time=skill

So you don't love me.

Aardvark

Marcet wrote: »

cleansingtotem wrote: »

I love the fake hardcore crowd that thinks time=skill.

Im not hardcore. And I don't think time=skill

So you don't love me.

I hate the group that thinks timesink =fun content

Marcet

Aardvark wrote: »

I hate the group that thinks timesink =fun content

I don't think timesink = fun content

So you don't hate me.

Leroher

Marcet wrote: »

Leroher wrote: »

say my word there. What you want to explain, and something Steve wanted to say clearly, is that he doesn't want everyone to be winners, because that makes the good things meaningless. The game is difficult (and fun) because the things should have value (as you said), and because the game is PvP, that makes it more important, and also goes with the phylosophy risk/reward.

True, that explains it very well, btw I hope we can play the game together when the time comes

Hahahaha, I'm absolutely agree, even more after the war we held XDD.

(For real, I'm really sorry, reading again my comment looks like you killed my mother at least)

P.S.: I'm european, so that's a key point if we want to play together xD

Leroher

PlagueMonk wrote: »

I've actually thought about this question for a day or two since my original post and it occurred to me no one has actually asked the correct followup question........."Once I reach max level is there anything for me to do?" If the answer to that is roll an alt then there's a problem. One of CoH's biggest initial shortcomings was exactly that, there was no end game so if you weren't interested in making lots of alts then you were pretty much finished. This should not be a game like Dragon Age or Skyrim where you reach the end of the story and then move on.

Many seem put off by the phrase, "The real game doesn't begin until you hit max level" but the reality is, that's actually a true statement for most games. You've spent all this time creating, molding, outfitting and becoming attached to your character so now you want to be challenged as an experienced player. The road to reach max level can still be fun (and I hope it is) but that's basically training.

So if the answer to my question is, there is no real end game, then the leveling time is way too short imho.

It's just that, there's content, and you just happen to be max lvl, so you do things hard enough for you. And because the game is filled with PvP content, at max lvl you can do it without fear of finding someone too much stronger than you.

Marcet

Leroher wrote: »

Hahahaha, I'm absolutely agree, even more after the war we held XDD.

(For real, I'm really sorry, reading again my comment looks like you killed my mother at least)

P.S.: I'm european, so that's a key point if we want to play together xD

Nah man I was too fired up comenting on this post and I regret it, ty for being kind

And Im european too so hell yeah lets play together when this thing comes out!!! it's gonna be awesome!

Caeryl

cleansingtotem wrote: »

Caeryl wrote: »

cleansingtotem wrote: »

Leroher wrote: »

cleansingtotem wrote: »

Side note, for all the people who complain about end game at max level being too important, explain how you go about fixing that without destroying the entire concept of leveling.

Good point there, but in my case, I complain about max lvl content being the only thing enjoyable in the game. Usually leveling up is a mean to enjoy the game, which you do at max lvl, and I hope IS makes leveling up nearly as much enjoyable as max lvl content.

Jagaro wrote: »

45 days of meaningful gameplay would be ideal.

How do you get 45 days of meaningful gameplay with leveling?

“How you get 45 days of meaningful gameplay?” is the question you’re actually asking. And the answer is simple

Step one: Stop thinking of gameplay before max lvl as a chore

Step two: Actually put forth some effort to get into the world lore, read the quests, experience the game.

The fault here stems entirely from people thinking of quests as a hassle to overcome, instead of part of the game. The game can’t fix a faulty mindset.

You did not answer the question. What new and exciting features is this game bringing to make the majority of players want to have a leveling process that takes 45+days?

This is one of the dumber questions, but alright.

This “new” feature is... drumroll please... engaging gameplay.

That’s it. The game just has to be enjoyable to play. The quests should be well-written, have some memorable moments, and not be too dull. The world should be interesting, with many things to find and get into. The combat should feel good, it should be varied, strategic and not too slow while it asks the player to pay attention. The rewards should be varied for all sorts of gameplay paths, and each be desirable in their own way.

None of those things have any level requirements to be true. A quest tuned for level 5s can be more meaningful than a quest tuned for level 50s. A dungeon done at level 10 can have as many nooks and crannies to explore as a level 50 dungeon, it can even have comparable skill requirements. The economics game has no level demands, just requires patience and time. The crafting gameplay has no significant level demands.

The world is neither locked off nor segmented based on levels, you can go wherever you want, and if you have the skill and patience you can even go most places successfully. Nothing quite beats the feeling of finding skulls instead of levels, and killing one of them.

As I said before, your problems with leveling stems from a faulty mindset that the game can’t be enjoyable until max level. Nothing the game has or does not have can a fix a problem that you made for yourself. At level 1, you can start down any path or profession you like. If you enjoy combat, pick up combat quests or simply go out into the world and slay creatures and men. If you enjoy PvP, find a military node and start gathering like minds to defend or attack caravans. If you enjoy crafting, start gathering, start socializing and start finding a steady supply of resources and buyers. If all you wanna do is play house, well, you probably should start figuring out how to run the nearby markets so you have money to buy all those shiny cosmetic items from crafters.

Leroher

Marcet wrote: »

Leroher wrote: »

Hahahaha, I'm absolutely agree, even more after the war we held XDD.

(For real, I'm really sorry, reading again my comment looks like you killed my mother at least)

P.S.: I'm european, so that's a key point if we want to play together xD

Nah man I was too fired up comenting on this post and I regret it, ty for being kind

And Im european too so hell yeah lets play together when this thing comes out!!! it's gonna be awesome!

Ohh, a true friendship was born from here XDDDD

I'm from Spain but idk if there will be some spanish server anyway, and I don't have a problem being in an international english speaking server, so maybe we will be together, let's see when the time comes xD

Gui10

too little imho! 45 days is too easy.

GrimmLiberty

cleansingtotem wrote: »

GrimmLiberty wrote: »

bot wrote: »

I don't understand ... Nothing is more off-putting than MMORPGs forcing you to treat the game like a second job just to experience the enjoyable parts...

I can tell. The purpose is to re-introduce players to "the Ride not the Destination". It ALL should be enjoyable.
[AND matter]

And it rarely ever is. Tell me, what happens to a game that has a terrible leveling experience and now you add on an extended amount of time doing said terrible leveling?

meh.

LOL

Varkun

45 days is fine IMO though I would be OK if it were longer any shorter and you would start to get some kick back from me. I want it to be a journey that one day I realise hey I hit max level.

Leroher

Varkun wrote: »

45 days is fine IMO though I would be OK if it were longer any shorter and you would start to get some kick back from me. I want it to be a journey that one day I realise hey I hit max level.

100% agree

Luthienstorm

I think it really depends on the combat system. The more indepth it is the more time it is to understand abilities/cool downs and game mechanics.

Hystorix

Too short for me would like to see closer to 500 hours which would be around 3 months for the hardcore up to a year for casuals like myself

RisingPhoenix

should be longer. like 60 days. part of the nostalgia talked about was the efforts of clan or guild members to help finish quests and level. so many games now practically give you high levels and that leads to boredom.... of course I know we will have some of those folks who will quickly max and then complain... I for one want to enjoy this game... not just "beat" it.

blackjack2525

I propose to make it 1000000000000000 hours to reach max level for all of those who want to make leveling longer in this thread.

GrimmLiberty

blackjack2525 wrote: »

I propose to make it 1000000000000000 hours to reach max level for all of those who want to make leveling longer in this thread.

And I propose it take you logging in to reach "max level", for people like you, and I bet you'd still not be happy.

...see? I can reductio ad absurdum too... LOL

blackjack2525

GrimmLiberty wrote: »

blackjack2525 wrote: »

I propose to make it 1000000000000000 hours to reach max level for all of those who want to make leveling longer in this thread.

And I propose it take you logging in to reach "max level", for people like you, and I bet you'd still not be happy.

...see? I can reductio ad absurdum too... LOL

Why do you take it personally? LOL
And who in your opinion are people like me? On what basis do you relate me to any other people? I stand for what the devs initially announced.

Kyizwa

As long as the leveling process isnt just a waste of time and actually counts towards the end game im fine with the 45 days. The reason i hate the leveling process in most games its because you get to the end of it and you basically dont get anything from it, you have to get new gear because the one you have sucks, you have to develop professions because you didnt have time to do it while leveling and in most cases its just a lost of time because that content isnt used again and so the devs end up having 50% of the game only playable once which i dont think is good for any game.

Unknown

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Marcet

Hystorix wrote: »

Too short for me would like to see closer to 500 hours which would be around 3 months for the hardcore up to a year for casuals like myself

Personally I would like it as you said.