45 days @ 4/6 hours per day, too much or too little?

Leroher

The important thing is not only if 45 days 4h-6h/day is enough. The key is that you don't need to farm to get there, there's a lot of ways to lvl up, and kill boars is not the only one.

Grimfaldra

I suffer from severe altitis and repetitive leveling disorder. I will pat my own shoulders if I manage to create less than 10 characters in 45 days. Never mind me being max level with one.

For people without the above metioned afflictions, nearly 250hours of play to max level gives you your moneys worth and depending on the replayability factor, more than that. Not too long, not too short.

8BitBaker

Leroher wrote: »

The important thing is not only if 45 days 4h-6h/day is enough. The key is that you don't need to farm to get there, there's a lot of ways to lvl up, and kill boars is not the only one.

I think this is a really important point to make. If it takes 45 days of me playing the game to level up, honestly I'd say that would be GREAT. I don't mind that the game takes a relatively long time to level assuming that that process pulls me through actual content and not just a massive grind fest.

Songcaller

It would take a Hardcore Player 23 Days to level because Hardcore Players put in 12 hours a day or longer.

Of course, Node Progression might slow Hardcore Players down, also depends on whether the Hardcore Players can maintain groups to level in.

Edit: Hardcore players could do it in 15 Days if its closer to 4 hour sessions rather than 6 hour sessions to equate to 45 days.

BaSkA_9x2

I believe that the harder it is to reach max level the more rewarding it feels to reach it and, if it's actually fun to level up, the better it will feel to play as a max level.

I also think that you should be able to compete in "end game content" at about level 45, hopefully gear isn't level gated. Regarding gear, I like how RuneScape blocks people from using certain items, although something like that can't be done here, I hope there's gonna be something a bit different to it.

Leroher

Grimfaldra wrote: »

I suffer from severe altitis and repetitive leveling disorder. I will pat my own shoulders if I manage to create less than 10 characters in 45 days. Never mind me being max level with one.

For people without the above metioned afflictions, nearly 250hours of play to max level gives you your moneys worth and depending on the replayability factor, more than that. Not too long, not too short.

We suffer the same illness my friend.

Leroher

8BitBaker wrote: »

Leroher wrote: »

The important thing is not only if 45 days 4h-6h/day is enough. The key is that you don't need to farm to get there, there's a lot of ways to lvl up, and kill boars is not the only one.

I think this is a really important point to make. If it takes 45 days of me playing the game to level up, honestly I'd say that would be GREAT. I don't mind that the game takes a relatively long time to level assuming that that process pulls me through actual content and not just a massive grind fest.

Yuup, that's it. In fact, it's the most important factor lvlingwise for me. I imagine my character reaching lvl 50 by doing some dark stuff for a religion or the thieves guild.

GrimmLiberty

I think that 360 hours to make 50 would be preferable. I want a slower leveling system. Plus, it would force the bots and farmers to invest at least at least a month(12 hours/day) into the game and make them not want to get banned as much, from a personal point of view, not the organizational point of view..

Vangal

It is completely fine to have a longer leveling process if it is fun and engaging throughout.

Kaelang

I think what we need to consider is how realistic such time frame actually is in comparison to when players learn to min-max their gains when they get ingame. There's going to be a large proportion of players who completely speed through the content and hit max level much, much sooner than the initial timeframe.

Aardvark

Adding a 0 to the xp needed might make it take 10x as long to level but it would create 0 more content.

Bot

I don't understand the desire for hitting level cap to take forever. It should be doable playing 4 hours a day within 3 weeks your first time around if you ask me. Nothing is more off-putting than MMORPGs forcing you to treat the game like a second job just to experience the enjoyable parts. It's exactly why this genre will never reach its potential since everyone that I know that doesn't like MMORPGs hates the grind. I'm here to hit end-game then PvP, not walk around the map RPing for 2 months. Especially considering the leveling experience in most MMORPGs is incredibly stale. I only view leveling to cap as a means to make you familiar with the map, your skills, and functions within the game and nothing else. End-game is for everything else. If you create an unnecessarily long process to reach the fun part of the game people will opt out of playing in favor of games where they can just have fun like BRs, mobas, and normal shooters.

A lot of people have school, work, and social lives. They don't want to spend all off their personal time away from friends, family, and work leveling. 4/6 hours every day is only a schedule hardcore players can have.That should not be the expected average playtime for a player. 2-3 hours 4-5 days a week is a lot more realistic.

Bot

Caeryl wrote: »

It seems perfectly fine to me. People are far too eager to rush into max level and ignore the actual game along the way. Forcing players to slow it down seems like a good way to also force them to acknowledge the rest of the game.

The actual game of what exactly?

Sandman wrote: »

If anything it's too short, I'm tired of games letting people get to max level in 1 week, where is the accomplishment in that? Taking longer will really get you to know your class very well, and I'm sure at every level on the way to max there will be planty of stuff we can do.

You don't learn your class very well leveling to cap. Leveling is an incredibly basic form of your class. Doing end-game content is when you actually learn and understand your class' potential. I promise you no longer how long you level for you will lose to a person who spend the equivalent amount of time doing dungeons or PvPing.

GrimmLiberty

bot wrote: »

I don't understand ... Nothing is more off-putting than MMORPGs forcing you to treat the game like a second job just to experience the enjoyable parts...

I can tell. The purpose is to re-introduce players to "the Ride not the Destination". It ALL should be enjoyable.
[AND matter]

PlagueMonk

I can't speak for anyone else but whenever a game is listed as full play-through at X hours, I always take that number an just about double it. I'm the type of person who explores just to uncover the map, find that hidden gem or has to have all the tome unlocks in an area before moving on, etc. I'm sure I 'waste' a lot of time in peoples eyes but I enjoy it

Leroher

bot wrote: »

I don't understand the desire for hitting level cap to take forever. It should be doable playing 4 hours a day within 3 weeks your first time around if you ask me. Nothing is more off-putting than MMORPGs forcing you to treat the game like a second job just to experience the enjoyable parts. It's exactly why this genre will never reach its potential since everyone that I know that doesn't like MMORPGs hates the grind. I'm here to hit end-game then PvP, not walk around the map RPing for 2 months. Especially considering the leveling experience in most MMORPGs is incredibly stale. I only view leveling to cap as a means to make you familiar with the map, your skills, and functions within the game and nothing else. End-game is for everything else. If you create an unnecessarily long process to reach the fun part of the game people will opt out of playing in favor of games where they can just have fun like BRs, mobas, and normal shooters.

A lot of people have school, work, and social lives. They don't want to spend all off their personal time away from friends, family, and work leveling. 4/6 hours every day is only a schedule hardcore players can have.That should not be the expected average playtime for a player. 2-3 hours 4-5 days a week is a lot more realistic.

I guess you heard nothing about how Steven wants the lvling experience. He doesn't want people to rush max lvl to start the "real" game. Ashes will start since lvl 1, and you got plenty of ways to enjoy it.

That's why there's people asking for more hours, because it's supposed to be enjoyable.

So here's the important thing, rushing max lvl to start the real game is not a thing in Ashes.

Xenotor

Wololo wrote: »

As someone who comes from PWI where up untill a few years ago; It used to take well over a year to get max level. Some casuals never even reached it because dying took away a few days worth of XP 😆 It makes 45 days feel short but I understand these times you need to appeal to casuals too and ppl dont like braindead farming anymore.

Ah good old Ragnarok Online had the same before the 3rd classes.
Every time a Guild member reached 99 a party was thrown.

Oh im at level 98 with 99,65% and get 0,0001% exp per monster kill.
Suddenly a horde or boss comes around the corner and im dead.
Back to 98,65% A week worth of grind lost.

Adaon

"Grinding", grouping, meticulously taking down camps, exploration, getting access to new skills or larger skill upgrades, this stuff is only a "chore" if the game isn't fun, and combat isn't fun. So when the emphasis is entirely on end game - and leveling is simply something in your way(entirely the present WoW dynamic), even in classic - it took about two weeks to get to level cap, hard play. If those estimates are correct from the OP, this will take about 20 days to hit level cap, likely quicker. For me, who would rather there be a heavier emphasis on leveling, immersion in general, that's far too fast.

However - the way this game seems laid out, it does seem like the major emphasis is going to be on node development, and by virtue of that - I imagine in order to be able to be near/around all the nodes in the game, you'd have to be max level, unless monsters scale to your level? Or - every single node has the full breadth of monster levels from beginning to top? So, while I'd rather a fully fleshed out leveling system, this may not be the game to provide it, just based on how the systems seem likely to work.

Not since the EQ days(or UO with skills)has it ever taken me longer than two weeks to cap out a character, and a few more days won't really rate on my radar. Guild Wars 2 - took like three days(I did use cooking from 68-80) but that barely would have slowed me down to continue on. Rift took about a week, Warhammer took a few days, FF14 I for the life of me can't remember, but I did cap out pretty quick.

Longer is better, won't expect that here.

MrScrewtape

The concept that "the real game begins at max level" need to go away. A successful game will need to have meaningful/fun/engaging content along the entire leveling experience.

Seen far too many games where everyone rushes to max level, bypassing 80% of a games content, then complain there is nothing to do.

Make leveling as long/slow/fast as there is engaging content along the way. If there are tons of things to do, I don't care how fast I level. If I'm bored out of my mind just grinding mobs for hours on end, simply to get the next level gate to unlock content, I'll lose interest.

For a game like AoC, I really doubt the player type that rushes max level will stick around long term. From the interviews I've seen, it doesn't sound like that is the target audience for this game anyway. Double/Triple time to max level, just make sure I have plenty of new content along the way and I don't have to run the same dungeon 100+ times simply to level up to reach the next dungeon.

Nypam

screwtape wrote: »

The concept that "the real game begins at max level" need to go away. A successful game will need to have meaningful/fun/engaging content along the entire leveling experience.

Seen far too many games where everyone rushes to max level, bypassing 80% of a games content, then complain there is nothing to do.

Make leveling as long/slow/fast as there is engaging content along the way. If there are tons of things to do, I don't care how fast I level. If I'm bored out of my mind just grinding mobs for hours on end, simply to get the next level gate to unlock content, I'll lose interest.

For a game like AoC, I really doubt the player type that rushes max level will stick around long term. From the interviews I've seen, it doesn't sound like that is the target audience for this game anyway. Double/Triple time to max level, just make sure I have plenty of new content along the way and I don't have to run the same dungeon 100+ times simply to level up to reach the next dungeon.

Amen.

Marcet

I like it difficult and the more time the better, reaching max lvl should be hard. And you make it more valuable if its very hard.

Liniker

to short in my opinion, those 45 days will become like 10 days when people tryhard, I'd say make it 90 days, but I'm no game dev so idk

Warth

Liniker wrote: »

to short in my opinion, those 45 days will become like 10 days when people tryhard, I'd say make it 90 days, but I'm no game dev so idk

@Liniker

keep it 45 days, but create a server upon release of beta 2 that features a 14 day Speedleveling contest.

The Winners of this speed leveling contest get a set of unique cosmetics + title. The devs use the data from this test to nerf the abuseable leveling methods

Roko

Warth wrote: »

Liniker wrote: »

to short in my opinion, those 45 days will become like 10 days when people tryhard, I'd say make it 90 days, but I'm no game dev so idk

@Liniker

keep it 45 days, but create a server upon release of beta 2 that features a 14 day Speedleveling contest.

The Winners of this speed leveling contest get a set of unique cosmetics + title. The devs use the data from this test to nerf the abuseable leveling methods

I like this Idea a lot. Except beta is probably too late to fix major loopholes. A2 would be preferable to test this.

Leroher

Roko wrote: »

Warth wrote: »

Liniker wrote: »

to short in my opinion, those 45 days will become like 10 days when people tryhard, I'd say make it 90 days, but I'm no game dev so idk

@Liniker

keep it 45 days, but create a server upon release of beta 2 that features a 14 day Speedleveling contest.

The Winners of this speed leveling contest get a set of unique cosmetics + title. The devs use the data from this test to nerf the abuseable leveling methods

I like this Idea a lot. Except beta is probably too late to fix major loopholes. A2 would be preferable to test this.

Or B1

TheGoodzilla

If I am not mistaken, the original Guild Wars had a level cap of 20. And that was easy enough to achieve very early in the game. And then there was so much remaining content to do.

If anything changes, I would prefer the time after you get your second class to be slower, because you know everyone will be rushing to achieve that milestone as soon as possible. Also, this game will clearly not be lacking in the content department. Why not make the leveling process slower to match the abundance of content? Or possibly speed it up much more than has been suggested currently so that "max level" is essentially the starting point for 90% of the content (whereas in most mmos at least a good 50-75% is for everything before max)?

Unknown

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Unknown

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Leroher

cleansingtotem wrote: »

Side note, for all the people who complain about end game at max level being too important, explain how you go about fixing that without destroying the entire concept of leveling.

Good point there, but in my case, I complain about max lvl content being the only thing enjoyable in the game. Usually leveling up is a mean to enjoy the game, which you do at max lvl, and I hope IS makes leveling up nearly as much enjoyable as max lvl content.

Triple

I'm fine with it. Sounds just about right, I don't want it to easy. I would rather it edged toward the harder side.