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Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
Let's make this journey long and memorable.
This is not a Korean infinate level game. If you want that there are plenty.
Your question was how to make 45 days of engaging gameplay. I answered it: if the game isn’t crap, obviously you can make 45 days out of it.
I even mentioned on how a completely unlocked world lets you push your limits even if you don’t have access to every skill yet. Go explore, fight a dungeon 5 levels above you. Go quest and experience the game world being created. Gather for a node. Seige a node. Attack caravans. Try to become a node mayor. Battle in arenas. Explore the world.
You’re so set on pretending 1 - 49 is on a different plane that all you’ll end up doing is missing the game.
Yeah, I popped in to say this, too. It may or may not be on the long side, but there seems to be this overwhelming majority of people in this thread who believe the time you spend in a game indicates your interest in said game. Even still, that 4-6 hours a day is totally reasonable and expected! Do you guys not have jobs, clean homes, and spouses/pets who need your attention? I put in 40-60 hours a week at work. Most days I don't even see my computer.
But I love the fuck out of my games and when I can, I am glad to fully immerse myself in the game world, even if only for a few hours on the weekend. My favorite part of MMORPGs is to fully involve myself in crafting and the economy, studying market trends, my guildmates' needs, and burying myself in spreadsheets. My lack of time doesn't hold me back from opening my wallet for the game, either. Does the fact that I'm an adult mean I'm a casual? Christ, I'm not even 30 yet!
So why is reaching "max level" that important in the first place? If the content pre-level 50 is enjoyable, then it doesn't matter whether the casual player is 38 or 50. Nobody requires you to play 4-6 hours a day, just take it at your own pace.
But here I get what @Elistriell means, and I agree a bit. He says he doesn't have much time to play so he won't hit max lvl at the same time of the rest of the people. And that's ok, but having the game everything mixed, maybe he won't enjoy as much some things because of that difference.
Even with that, he will enjoy the game a lot, pre lvl 50 and at max lvl, but if to reach max lvl takes 400 hours and not 225, because of his work/family/whatever, he will hit max lvl several months after us, and maybe the constant PvP with nodes sieges, caravans and enemy guilds won't be that fun because he will be lvl 27 and the others lvl 50.
It's difficult to cater a game to every single person, so wouldn't that just mean this is not the game for him? It's a decision developers will have to make, should they cater to players that will play the game 2 hours a week or to players that will play it 20 hours a week? Can they really cater to both? I don't think they can cater to both in all aspects and this is one of those aspects of the game they can't.
It isn't, to a point. I'm all about the journey, and that is completely possible in games that allow for more solo play. In LotRO, for example, I've seemingly never been able to be max level for long or at all before the bar is raised and I'm left behind again, but that's been okay.
I don't worry about that for AoC, of course, but I do worry about being especially squishy, or worse, being ditched from guilds because I can't level fast enough. I know my husband will back me up, but others may not be in the same boat. Hell, this mindset of spending such an amazing amount of time every day (seriously, I'm not even awake at home that many hours!) being an expectation of playing a game is kind of scary. Can't join sieges because, you know, you're out in the real world making money to play the game in the first place? Get lost, casual.
I get that. My question is, I don't know, shouldn't most people have jobs? Don't most people have significant others and a place they live that needs to be cleaned? Food that needs to be cooked? Pets that need to be cared for? I'd find it hard to believe I'm a minority, because if you cut those people out, you'd be cutting out everyone who's graduated school, I'd think.
(sorry for the double-post: I was posting while you responded. I have to head into work now though, so I'm out of this discussion for the day)
Now, if I am to solely grind my way from 1 to 50 without as much as an enjoyable encounter per day/week, then 45 days is plenty, if not too much. Between the wife, work, kids and non gaming hobbies, I (and many others) wont have the time or mood to spend a year grinding.
Absolutely, you can't cater a game to everyone, but that's the thing, I think the devs made a good choice leaving it in 225 hours. Increasing that to 400 hours will make it really long for some people. It's not that this game is not suited to someone with little time, the problem is that there's people saying that would be good increasing lvling to 400-500 hours.
Like @Elistriell, I love the journey, and I think the devs choice is perfect, increasing that a little bit would be good for me too, but twice or thrice? Too much.
If you have the time and energy, 5+ hours should easily be achieved each night.
Although some might just have 3 -5 hours max to play.....and this is okay.
Family, school, work and other RL things should always come before gaming.
I learned a lot about balance after my baby was born..... my hardcore raiding nights with other MMO's which I have been doing for year's on end came to a halt.... these days I tend to be fully committed as best as I can during weekdays by giving a good 3 to 5 hours ...
but during the weekends.......once the baby knocks out ; that Hardcore monster in me wakes up and I find myself easily blowing 20+ hours lol
Most people do have jobs. Most people do have significant other commitments. However, nobody is cutting them out like you are proclaiming. Nobody is cutting out anybody. It's your own conception, that tell you, that you need to reach Level 50 for some weird reason. If you take 180 days instead of 45, then so be it.
The whole mindset behind "I have to be Max Level to enjoy the game" is a cancer originating from Themepark MMOs like WoW and FFXIV. In sandbox heavier MMOs, like Archeage, like AoC, like EvE, most content isn't locked behind an arbitrary number (your Level). Most content within the game is accessible by a Level 27, the same way it is a accessible by a Level 50, you just tend to do it at a smaller scale.
It doesn't matter how long it takes to reach max level, as long as the journey there is interesting, fun and engaging.
Master Assassin
(Yes same Tyrantor from Shadowbane)
Book suggestions:
Galaxy Outlaws books 1-16.5, Metagamer Chronicles, The Land litrpg series, Ready Player One, Zen in the Martial Arts
45 days at 4-6 hours means 180 to 270 hours in total. There's a delicate balancing act here to make sure that players don't feel like they're never going to 'get there'. I'd wager that the average casual player will need far longer to reach the cap given the constantly changing nature of the world, and thus also the need to figure out where to go and what they have to do to actually get there.
You also have to remember that people don't level, and *only* level, all the time, everywhere. Sometimes they just play without having the motive to progress: Roleplay, explore, do minigames ("race you!!") or whatever else you can think of which doesn't immediately raise someone's XP bar.
Lastly, levels are always an extremely hard mechanic to manage. Everyone levels at their own pace. There will be "no-lifers" who hit the max level within the first week or two - Maybe even a matter of days given their alpha/beta access, but there will also be those people who play maybe 5 hours a month and will spend most of that time chatting to their guildmates.
Personally, i don't have 4 to 6 hours a day to spend playing. Between an (effectively) 6 day job and a social life, along with other real life responsibilities, i'll be happy to be able to spend an hour a day on the game, and i won't be spending it purely on levelling. If the estimate of 180 to 270 hours turns out to be correct i'll be very surprised to see me reaching max level within a year, provided i play *every single day i am able to*.
And i'm fairly sure i'm not the only one in this situation.
You can increase the time it takes, but at that point, in my opinion, you're catering only to an incredibly specific niche of players who have a LOT of time to spare and who want to get a very specific, grindy experience out of their game, which will frustrate those who want to play more casually - The only way you're going to extend the time to level is by padding the game, aka, adding more repetitive grind, which is simply not very meaningful.
I also think that trying to gear the game towards what i see as 'content locusts' is also not a very good idea to begin with, as that's a race you will never, ever win as a developer.
180 to 270 hours seems like a good place. If those hours are filled with meaningful content, i'm content with it.
That's what I want to hear and that's what I am honestly hoping for. I am a "live for the journey" player, and like I've said before, that works very well in solo play or in groups of people you know IRL. In PvE, hell, you could say it doesn't even matter at all, full-stop. Get deep into the lore, explore every nook and cranny of the world, understand the context of your quests in the big picture, etc etc.
...But this game is massively PvP and competition heavy. There are consequences attached to every death, even when minding your own business. Wouldn't it stand to reason that a lower leveled player is at a significant disadvantage every time they log in if they're behind the rest of the pack? If I'm missing something, please let me know. Perhaps it would depend somewhat on how many players start at launch vs how many continue entering the game over time. Maybe there won't be a "pack" if there's a continued influx of new players. It's hard to say, I think.
And then there's the mentality that you discussed. Wherever it came from, it's there, and it will probably exist here, too. We've already heard a ton about exclusion over gear and dps, do you really think level exclusion won't be a thing?
(and a small correction as I've been called he a few times, last I checked I was a woman >.> )
I think there has been a misunderstanding in what i just wrote.
While you will do the same type of content, you certainly will not do the exact same content. Obviously, nobody is going to invite a LvL 28 to the party for a LvL 45-50 public dungeon for a multitude of reasons, all boiling down that this dungeon is not were a LvL 28 should be in the first place. Its the same for resources and monsters in the overworld. Certain things just aren't yet relevant for a LvL 28, the same way they were not relevant to the LvL 50 back when he was in his twenties.
On the other hand, certain (most) aspects of the game, like a LvL 28-30 monsters will just not be relevant to the Level 50s anymore.
While pretty much doing the same things as Max Level characters. You'll still be segregated in the content fitting your specific levelrange.
So Obviously, there will be content in lower level ranges, that do stay relevant for high-leveled players, but these should be far and few inbetween, as there just so many "better" things to / opportunities to take.
Of course you'll be at an disadvantage when trying to compete with these players for the above mentioned content, but thats just the nature of any open world mmorpg. That's when you take the loss and move 5min over to the other content appropriate for your level range. Might not be the most optimal thing you can do, but there you might have it to yourself. That's part of the risk v. reward structure of the game. Either take the low risk with small gains, the medium risk of larger gains or the high risk route. That's in the player's agency to decide though.
Much more interesting is the question, how you'll deal with players close to your Level Range (33 v 28 for example), but thats a whole other story unrelated to the topic. I'd love to discuss that with you if you wantes to though.
@Elistriell
A large part of your level specific content should be for you or people around your level. There are effective counter measures in place that highly discourage highlevels from decking lowlevels just for fun, for no reason. Running a Caravan or attempting to “steal” the resources/mobs they are taking might still be ill-advised though.
There will certainly always be people with a mindset like that, but that’s not too uncommon. A lot of MMORPG gamers have only experienced the classic Themepark MMOs like GW2/FFXIV and WoW. People tend to stick with what they know when thrown in an unknown environment, that’s just natural. How will it be in my opinion?
There is people that will certainly start out with that mindset. Some of them will adapt once they realize, that it just doesn’t work here, others will narrow-mindedly stick to it. Those that stick to it will reach “endgame” and realize, that there is no endgame. That there will not be a set of dungeon and raid encounters every couple of months to keep them interested. That the game, is what they have been experiencing the entire time. That will either force them to adapt or they will leave the game, complaining that “there is no end-game”, based on their own preset expectations. Which are mostly based on narrow-mindedness and the fact, that they didn’t acquire any information beforehand. Either way, the problem should solve itself rather quickly. You can’t adjust a product for customers that purchase it expecting to get something completely different than they actually do. Especially not if this changes would go against the very nature of the product.
Afaik leveling in AoC won't be grinding so the process should be fun. And tbh i never really enjoyed the PvE in fastfood games where u reached max. Lvl very fast. There it was just a chore to get to the "endgame" like RvR/WvW or Raids.
I'm pretty sure that in AoC with vertical and horizonzal progression, the artisan system and so many PvP activities the way to 50 will be a fun ride - so who cares how long (depending on your daily playtime) it takes?
“Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it.”
Terry Pratchett
If the game resets at max lvl like WoW for example then I don't really care how long it takes. 100h or 200h doesn't really matter in grand scale of things.
My favourite approach would be that getting to 45 is rather quick (250h for example) and last 5 levels would be really slow and give smaller gains. Seeing someone lv50 would be "nice" moment but he still wouldn't be one hitting you in PvP. One can dream
I also agree with everyone wanting this game to lean towards the difficult side. Wow got to a point where you could literally faceroll and win. Keep AoC difficult.