Greetings, glorious testers!
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
"How do you intend to keep the community cemented from someone who just came into the game versus someone who's been in late game or endgame for weeks?"
[Answer]
"One of the great things about the Node System is that it really works from a new player acquisition standpoint, where these nodes tend to develop larger near the starting location areas around the world; and it brings these players back to those locations if they're citizens and want services within those cities. So, as new players enter the world they're going to actually be surrounded most likely by more population because people are coming back to those larger nodes.
In addition, we have certain systems that will relate towards a mentorship program that upper level players are going to be able to benefit from partying with and or helping certain lower level players and getting them situated in the game."
---Steven
"Part of the whole experience with Nodes is that there is no real endgame in that the world is constantly shifting every day. Month one is going to be really different from month two and that's for the Level 50s and for the Level 1s. So, that sense of 'what's new?' is going to be the case for any new player who comes. They're going to be able to participate in these systems, and make a difference, from day one.
It's going to be a different MMO(RPG)."
---Jeffrey
Gear grind is not one of the design pillars. Nodes are one of the design pillars.
Sieges/Caravans/Nodes will be the driving force of Ashes late in the game, by design.
The primary hook for Ashes is that the game is constantly updating as we construct and siege castles and new towns, cities and metropolises. That's what's driving the late game.
If it's just another game with a focus on endgame gear grind, there's no point in playing.
People who like to overgear will do so at every level of the game. Including max level. Sure.
Gear may not be Intrepids intention for the driving force behind the game at the level cap, but it will be the motivation for many players.
If there is no further upgrades for people to get, many people will simply stop logging in until there is (see WoW).
In a world where there is that upgrade path, players with a penchant for killing others will take it. From there, when other players that want to kill you are constantly getting better gear, getting better gear yourself is a simple matter of survival.
The node system absolutely is the driving force behind the game as a whole, but that doesn't mean it is for all players.
I don't think I've made a claim about "all players".
Big true! Other than DDO and WOW:Classic/TBC. I don't know what it is like to have more than one raid be relevant at a time.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
While Rift never impressed me with its raiding, EQ2 did.
That game had encounters that were not defeated for entire content cycles, let alone made obsolete. With the way contested encounters worked in that game, I don't think a single player was ever able to say they had no more potential upgrades to try and get for the decade or so I played it.
That wasn't just my guild, that was in the entire game.
Fortunately, most of Intrepids senior staff worked on that game.
Lots of people will also want a strong economy at every level.
We don't agree more than I think.
We agree more than you thought.
we all know late game its all about looks and trying to show off
Lots of late-game showing off is fashion over function.
Cosmetics are where it's at. And house decorating. And pet and mount collecting.
And parties!!!!
Thanks to all who added some additional context and thoughts in this thread as well!
hahaha very true ^^
Aren't we all sinners?
This is absolutely true for a portion of the playerbase.
It is kind of like PvP vs PvE though, everyone wants to gear out to an extent, and everyone wants to decorate their house, character, mounts etc to an extent.
The game needs to cater to both, and so will cater to both. There will be a form of gear based progression at the level cap, and this will be one of the key driving factors of the games economy (along with decorations, node construction and sieges).
This applies at all levels of "overgearing" be it level restricted or not. You will have to upkeep powerful gear, and the lower your level the more durability loss you will be taking. This is just a fact of having less tools during the leveling process. If they can nail the rarity of powerful gear materials then overgearing, even at max level, will end up being used for special occasions rather than 100% of the time.
I do not see people running around in their best in slot gear at all times, they will be choosing to have multiple sets for multiple activities according to importance.
Dude I wont shut up about this. I am glad you get it.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
People who like to overgear will overgear at every level.
In Ashes, it's not something that is focused on in the late game just because it's pretty much the only thing left to do.
In Ashes, there will be a variety of reasons to have multiple sets for multiple activities - resource cost is just one reason among many.
Good point and agreed
While many players are referencing WoW's heirloom system as 'broken' or a bad idea, WoW did not have a focus on world pvp, so these issues were pretty much confined to PVP arenas and maps. Also, the heirloom system in WoW did not launch at release or anywhere near release; it was really made for players who had played through multiple max level chars and wanted a way to expedite leveling, have an edge, and be really efficient (and spend some currency doing it.) It also saw an overhaul because with the original heirloom release, almost no one used them. How much is too much is a different conversation.
In the end, I really liked DAOC's method of having items 'con' within a certain level range of you to be usable and get its full effects. I think it makes it easy to control as at max level, you're going to have all kinds of secondary abilities, set bonuses, procs that are going to likely be completely overpowered on anyone below max level - even if toned down. Diablo also does this somewhat well in that the same exact item may exist in a lower form, but the modifiers are adjusted so low that any benefits dynamically scale with level to avoid imbalances. There's a lot of ways to do it, and I think twinking characters is fun. If you get a rare sword drop and you're on a mage, you may want to make a twink char for them to use it on, but I also think some leveling should be required for this to happen or it becomes too easy.
Max Level Character: Overgearing really shouldn't be feasible here in correlation with end game encounters. If a character with a full sheet of the best possible gear goes into the hardest content in the game, it should still be challenging otherwise it trivializes the content and points to a stat balancing issue.
If that same Max Level Character fights lower level content then its innately going to be easier. Ofcourse, with the ability to trade, buy and sell with anyone, even a new player could happen across higher tier gear than they would otherwise obtain on their own so level requirements on gear need to be present.
Leveling/Twink Character: This is the controversial one IMO.
On one hand, if you're making an alt and want to invest some of your hard work to make a new character level faster with a bit more ease then I don't see an issue with that. I don't think there should be a level 1 character wearing level 50 gear but something with a power bonus of +5 levels or so should be plenty.
On the other hand, without level bracketed PvP (WoW Battlegrounds) and a way to essentially stop earning experience then Twinking seems very temporary and shouldn't be a huge issue.
Now I'm sure we can expect level requirements on gear so when I talk about +5 levels or so of stat advantage, I'm referring to the gap between Normal rarity and the rarest Rarity (Legendary?) of gear at any given level requirement.
The other way I can see working around this would be to have percentage based stat bonuses on gear instead of flat stats meaning gear would scale more with character level and would allow for much looser restrictions on gear level requirements.
I could see this being exploited.
I prefer bracketed capability but overlapping a little as I always thought level jump at the precise level change was a bit off.
Please let's not have this:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=-Tko7Q2MlMM
Im not really a fan of gear not beeing BoA for the highest tier gear either.
It just ruins the work put into getting it if you can just buy them.
Wrong. Gear grind and character progression has been a fundamental thing in the history of mmorpgs.
A reason GW2 lost most of its players is becouse the lack of gear and character progression.
The more of it AoC has, the better.
0dbea148-8cb8-4711-ba90-eb0864e93b5f
Meh. I don't get excited by gear. Items are just tools for me and raiding was way too much of a hassle to get a new screwdriver. I dream of a mmo with no level and gear/stats progression. But I'm weird.
DAoC was my sweet spot in term of gear (I stopped when guild housing was introduced, so I can't say what it became after that). Star Wars Galaxies crafting dependant gear made it interesting too.
Someone first ever character should not be able to overgear as they did not earn any high-level gear to overgear with.
As with alt characters or "twinks", it is nice to be able to equip higher level gear to breeze through the leveling process, as you already did it once on your main and should not have to repeat it over and over again.
Either way, I am fine with or without 'overgearing' as it is not in any way gamebreaking.
The only scenario which could be abused is if someone is using alts to circumvent negative karma penalties.
Eternal Guild
( Web | Discord )
One downside with twinking alts i could see is it trivializes group content.
If a new player that wants to experiance the game with some challange and gets grouped up with twinked players in group content, it could diminish the experiance.
0dbea148-8cb8-4711-ba90-eb0864e93b5f
TL;DR: As long as people can't grind lvl 50 content to supply the top-tier gear for their lvl 10, I'm ok with it.
I've experienced PvP systems where people would lock their level, hunt for the absolute best gear for that certain level character, and attempt to kit everything out as well as possible. This has the feel of a professional fighter trying to improve as much as they can and fine-tune their weight to stay within a goal weight class. Professional gladiator. Much excite. YAY!
If they can bring a lvl, 50 item and give it to their lvl 10....that's just cheesy and lame. There is zero possibility that someone with level-appropriate gear would stand a chance. No fun in that, I feel.
For me, Everquest and Vanguard were flat out the two best MMO experiences in the 11 or so I've played in the last 21 years. Both of these had some available twink methods and also created true appreciation for equipment. Any more, every game is so exactly balanced off mathematical equations and boring stats etc that it is so hard to get excited about loot which is a huge draw for many MMO players including myself.
If they can recapture the allure of early EQ with the relatively challenging access to gear, especially some of the rare truly transformational items then they will have a game i'll play for a long period of time. Especially in the early days of a game, I remember seeing low lvl alt's of the top end guild just rocking the most bad ass gear possible and it just cleared that drive and allure to want to strive for that.
Definitely one of the top 5 experiences in 21 years of MMO playing was camping a Tranquil staff and Fungi Tunic in EQ back in Kunarak on my main which took me over 65 hours of gameplay and alot of luck. Once I got it a made a monk ult and had such a fun time doing things that I couldn't on my main leveling or being in groups and then all being so happy to have someone who had got that crazy gear.
Vanguard another great example of keeping it abit more in control but working hard to become a crafter and then making optimal pieces that while level restricted some where still very noticeable differences in power range when you spent alot of money or time crafting the top end (orange) gear for each level range.
It adds so much replayability, i'd spend days just working towards camping, crafting, or tracking down gear for my entire alt's leveling experience. Vanguard did it best as well as there still was PVE gear incentives that were better then twink options in the form of legendary quests that literally took 8-10 lvls worth of hard work and hard group content to finish but gave you awesome rewards that you kept for the next 10 levels. It was a great mix of working this legendary quest lines and having twink gear to supplement, was so great.
21 years....and my fondest memories other then hardcore raiding challenges were the fun with alt's and being able to play with a family member or friend who was just starting the game and being able to help carry them etc.
For me, if i want a game where everyone is equal and fair all capable of doing the same damage and having gear give minimal to no true power swings i'd play a MOBA. I want variability, I want uniqueness, I don't want equality just fairness. So sick of games that you change your entire gear set and you see a few % bump in output strictly due to stat increase. Give class specific ability improvements, give unique click abilities, give proc's.....EQ and VG to some extent did this SO well compared to all the games that maybe have the best "mathematicians" as develops but the games lack any soul. FFXIV perfect example....such an amazing game but gear is basically pointless, and worse even they scale EVERYTHING so if you do lower content you scale down. Its 100% "play it exactly the way THEY want you to play it, everyone is the same"....sure its easy to design around games that have no flexability or variance but man does it just suck the joy out of the game for me.
The biggest trick is to control access to the gear, again back to EQ I remember being on CoM farming epic parts with a group of friends for our bud. A jade reaver dropped and I was there for 12 hours strictly trying to help out, the group knew I had just started a SK alt so they kindly gifted me the Jade Reaver even though it was something still at that point that many lvl 40-50 people wanted. I was so freaking tickled pink, i played way more then I was going to focusing on my SK twink that could finally do some awesome damage.
We just need to try to get back to "fun" instead of being so damn concerned about every single chance of imbalance. Do the math in the background, put creative ideas to at least have the illusion of uniqueness (weapon that proc's 20% chance of 55 damage ability Vs. just slightly higher damage ratio). Really hoping AoC gets back to this type of design instead of thinking they can use a math equation to derive enjoyment....many of us are still going to gravitate towards figuring out the min-max & BiS options but lets get some creativity back in loot and flexibility as well as exclusivity. If i get a super rare item then damnit it should do more then just look pretty, i should see a noticeable difference.
lastly....please be the first MMO to go back to a post max level progression system for power. EQ AA's were still one of the greatest things in MMO history even if they did introduce harder levels of entry in expansions for newer players. You can scale that eventually to address some but it just provided additional reason to play at max level and provide further opportunity to differentiate yourself from every other joe-blow. Give us a world that isn't designed from the ground up to all be cookie cutter people with identical power levels....again I can go play an MOBA for games that I want ONLY skill to truly matter. Let all my hard work, dedication, efficiency, relationships etc ultimate cultivate into part of my power level. I think its just a younger generation and entitlement thing where people think everyone should have everything.....
Good luck, extremely challenging topic